officially add unhinged convicted felon who snapped after he lost the 2020 election to the list. that is how the current leader of the free world, president joe biden, describes his rival and his first expansive remarks taking down donald trump post trial, post conviction. the president taking the presumptive republican nominee on head on, for having made history in all of the wrong ways. for becoming the first ever ex-american president to become a convicted felon and for being the first convicted felon to then try to become president again. current president telling a crowd at a fund-raiser in connecticut last night that the 2024 election campaign had entered, quote, uncharted territory, with trump's criminal conviction. adding that as if the guilty verdict isn't disturbing enough, quote, more damaging is the all out assault donald trump is making on the american system of justice. echoing remarks president biden made last week, he called out trump's claims of a rigged justice system, and his violent rhetoric in the wake of his conviction. including comments he made on fox news that the public would reach a, quote, breaking point. of that, president biden says this, quote, it is reckless, dangerous, and downright irresponsible for anyone to say that it's rigged just because you don't like the verdict. now, according to president biden, the stakes of this upcoming election are even higher than last time because, quote, the threat that trump poses would be greater in a second term than it was in his first term. this isn't the same trump who got elected in 2016. he is worse. something snapped in him when he lost in 2020. he can't accept he lost, and it's literally driving him crazy. the theme of protecting our democracy and the threat trump poses to our country is something that the president returned to in a brand-new in depth interview with "time" magazine. president biden saying this about trump's conduct on january 6th. how he sat back and let a mob ransack the u.s. capitol endangering the life of his own vice president. quote, it made me realize just how fundamentally what he allowed to happen sitting in this room. looking at that television for three hours, and he didn't do a damn thing. said about america and how much confidence people lost in america. that's not a major international meeting i attended and that before it's over and i have attended many more than most presidents have in 3 1/2 years that a world leader doesn't pull me aside as i'm leaving and say, he can't win. you can't let them win. my democracy and their democracy is at stake. my democracy is at stake. name me a word leader other than orban and putin who think trump should be the leader of the united states of america. president biden turning to campaign speeches and interviews to underscore and turn up the volume in articulating the stakes of the 2024 election is where we start today. with us at the table, former republican congressman, msnbc political analyst david jolly. also, democratic strategist and director of the public policy program at hunter college, msnbc political analyst basil smikle is here. also, the executive director of republican voters against trump, publisher of the bulwark, sarah longwell is here. we're going to speak with senior spokesman for the biden/harris campaign, adrienne elrod. it's great to have you here. great to have you in this role. i think a lot of biden supporters are eager to see him turn up the volume. the material basically writes itself. tell me about the comments we have highlighted today. >> well, nicolle, thank you for having me. great to be with you. look, we're five month out from this election. donald trump has been convicted of 34 felonies. there's no one better to make that contrast to not only talk about what's at stake in this election, what the choice is, but also the fact that, yes, donald trump, you know, may have done a number of reckless things as president but he's become even more unhinged since then, as you artfully laid out in your intro, and we have to made it clear somebody who has become even more unhinged and somebody who is literally tearing down the pillars of our democracy, the judicial system truly being at the center of that, is somebody who is incredibly dangerous and should not ever step back in the oval office. again, there's nobody more effective in drawing that contrast and making that point than the current president of the united states, joe biden, who is also the other person that americans will choose, whether in this upcoming election with this binary choice. i think you're going to hear president biden continue to make more of a contrast, continue to drive home this point. again, convicted felon or not, we know this choice and this election is all about coming down to the ballot box in the final stretch of this campaign and we are still going to make sure that president biden is taking the case to the american people. we're not just leaning on these convictions, these felonies. we're making sure the american understand what president biden has done, what he's continuing to do to help them, and contrast to donald trump, who not only is tearing down our judicial system but is also seeking political revenge on his enemies and wants to seek political retribution if he gets back in the oval office. >> andrew weissmann was here yesterday, the first day of hunter biden's trial, and we covered the first lady entering the courthouse, and there's more family there today in support of hunter biden. the president had a statement yesterday. talking about his love and support for his son and his battle with the disease of addiction and now in the trial, i wonder if it's enough that people see the obvious contrast, right? the president's own son is being prosecuted by the justice department. the projection and the accusation on the right, you have to spend a minute in the rabbit hole, the sort of disinformation they consume, but the entire construction is that trump is prosecuted by alvin bragg in new york because of the biden justice department. and as ludicrous as it is, it seems like a decent contrast to say, no, he's not in charge of that, but the one he is in charge of is prosecuting his own son. is it a conversation people are comfortable having or do you feel like it's a story that tells itself? >> look, i think it's a story that tells itself. again, we're looking at this as president biden, dr. biden, very supportive parents of their son, i think millions of americans out there can understand what it's like to have someone who has suffered addiction and overcome those challenges. they're very supportive. at the end of the day, this election is a choice between joe biden, president joe biden, and donald trump. it is not about hunter biden. we're going to stay laser focused on not only of course making it clear that somebody who does not support the pillars of democracy, who is tearing down our judicial system should never be allowed back in the oval office, but we're going to make it clear what president biden is doing and will continue do for the american people in a second term. lowering prescription drug costs, capping insulin at $35. that's where president biden's focus is, and you're going to see him traveling across the country hitting battleground states which he's been doing in contrast to trump who has really not hit battleground states. you're going to see him take that message to the campaign trail. that's where our focus is, making the lives of american people better in contrast to trump who simply wants to seek political revenge and retribution on his enemies if he gets back in the oval office. >> so says trump himself. i want to ask you about this line about trump snapping in 2020. i had not heard the president make that on the campaign trail, and i think our friend sarah longwell, who is an expert and has educated me on permission structures might see that it seems to create a permission structure, even for a '16 and '20 trump supporter to say he is different, and we have tried to roll the tape and show it without saying it, i'm not a doctor, but trump is performatively significantly diminished from his campaign persona of '16 and '20. i wonder if this idea of a breaking point and a snapping which is certainly corroborated by the january 6th select committee witnesses, people like cassidy hutchinson and sarah matthews who talked about trump's, i don't know what word to use other than shame spiral, i can't believe i lost to this guy, all those colorful pieces of testimony. i wonder if it's informed by that or informed by what we see, and if it's strategic in that way of creating a permission structure for '16 and '20 voters to come to the biden coalition. >> such a great point. i think it's all of the above. again, it's increasingly difficult as you know well to break through in this political cycle even if you are the president of the united states. there's so much noise out there, but when the president of the united states, the current president of the united states, goes out there and really drives home this point, you know, says that donald trump has snapped, which is true. lists examples of how he's snapped, how he's become even more unhinged since he was last in the oval office. he said of course, he would rule as a dictator on day one. he said there would be a blood bath if he doesn't win this election. there's no better person, no better messenger to drive home these points than president joe biden. you're going to continue to see him make that contrast, but again, he is certainly not going to lose sight of the fact this election is not only about donald trump running as a convicted felon. it's about what joe biden will continue to do for the american people, what his plans are for a second term. what is at stake in this election. he'll continue to make that contrast, both affirmatively in terms of the direction of the country and making it clear the dangers we would see in this country if donald trump stepped foot back in thas white house. it would be incredibly dangerous and there's no better messenger to make that point than joe biden. >> kitchen tabl issues with a little convicted felon on the side. great to get to talk to you. sarah longwell, i want to talk to you. snapped in 2020, just didn't feel -- it feels strategic. i wonder how you hear it. >> 100%. when i saw this, i said this is smart. this is joe biden saying, hey, look, maybe you voted for this guy in '16, maybe you voted for him in '20, but you have new information now. right? you have new information since then. you didn't know when you voted for him the second time that he was going to incite an insurrection. you didn't know he was going to deny the election results and try to overturn them. you didn't know he said he was going to be a dictator. you want to welcome people into saying, look, i have new information so i have permission to change my mind. i also just want to say one of the things joe biden is doing here that i'm so glad to see, i heard some murmurs from democrats that was sort of like, should joe biden call him a convict? should he go after him for these things? i was sitting there saying, if this was reversed, if this was republicans making this choice, they would go hammer and tong at their opponent who had been convicted of a crime. of course, you have to go on offense. you have to change the trajectory of this race. you have to make this a referendum on trump. this is getting somewhere. i'm glad to see that it feels like they found their footing on offense. that's where they need to live for this campaign. >> yeah, i often wish that the only piece of the republican party that could sort of live on in this democratic coalition is that fight piece. you know, and i heard it in adrienne today. i didn't necessarily hear it yesterday. we had a person from the campaign on. but it's this, what would the other side do? they would be talking about it 24/7. it doesn't make it right, but there are ways the biden agenda is doing all the things they talked about. the economy is improving and biden is foexed on it like a laser. our allies, we do have their back. we're standing by ukraine. republicans are playing footsy with pooten, the substance is there, but if you don't grab these opportunities to get on offense and throw the political punches they are gone. and i wonder what are you guys doing with this moment? i saw news of some billboards. >> yes. look, here's what we're doing. we want to make sure that the convict stuff sticks. and so we have our two-time trump voters or former trump voters, they are our messengers, republican voters against trump. we have put billboards up with the faces of a lot of these former trump voters saying i voted for trump before, but i'm not going to vote for a convicted felon because that's a message that we want to drive home. look, i heard the guest prior talking about how biden is the right messenger for this. let me tell you about offense. offense requires tons of surrogates. this isn't just joe biden's job. this is the entire democratic party's job. this is the democratic voters' job. republicans, what did they do? they would get out there and rally behind trump. this is what everybody needs to be doing so no american misses what's happening now. >> i also wonder, i had mckay coppins on yesterday. you know who knows a lot of european leaders? mitt romney, bob corker, mark milley, john kelly. i mean, i'm not satisfied. i wonder how you feel about a concerted effort to get all those people to say i hear the same things from my allies and friends when i'm on codels because i have been serving in public life for so long, so i'm going to vote for biden. i may not agree with every policy he's for, but this time, trump is running on a promise to annihilate our allies. where is that piece of this? >> look, you know that i believe there is one of the most important things that needs to happen going forward is for the people who saw something, they need to say something. the members of trump's cabinet who worked with him, who now, and who have gone on background to the atlantic or maybe they have said something here and there. they have a responsibility and a duty to this country. look, i think mitt romney is a wonderful person. i think he's been one of the most stand-up people, you know, in the republican party this entire time, but he does understand the threat that trump poses just as these generals do and these people who work with trump. and their affirmative support for biden is going to matter because that is how you say look, i'm not a democrat, i have never worked for a democrat. i don't vote for democrats, but in this case, i'm going to do it because this guy is so dangerous. and we're going to need them to get there as this goes on because you know they believe that trump is that dangerous. >> yeah, i mean, i made a list on my sheets yesterday, david, and mcconnell, corker, bolton, haley, romney, thune, portman, all of the people that we once knew. and what has come out in eight years of covering the trump story isn't that they didn't see him exactly as i did and you did and you did. it's that they were political cowards. maybe something worse, but we'll go with that for today. mattis, milley, and kelly have a different, i think, set of barriers. they have some really deeply held views about the military's role in elections and they don't think generals should tell people who to vote for. it's not what sarah's talking about, if you see something say something. they saw everything. what would your approach be for the biden campaign to get these people to make this argument to the country, to their sort of stakeholder groups? >> listen, the partisan distrust and mistrust is deep. and i think one of the reasons you see caution from the biden campaign is because they have been constantly let down by republicans who refuse to make the ultimate act of patriotism, which is to cross the rubicon and say yes, i'll vote for joe biden. a ought of these political actors, military leaders, former senior staff, whomever they are, feel comfort in having expressed opposition to donald trump but it terrifies them for some reason to say they'll vote for joe biden. >> why? >> i think it's okay to pass personal judgment on people in this moment because it's an act of patriotism they're unwilling to make. i think the reason it's so important and sarah speaks to surrogates, joe biden has an incredibly difficult task this cycle. first and foremost, because he must remain presidential. even those comments last night, there is a line he can't cross. now, as president, he has a duty to remind the american people of a couple things. first, donald trump is a criminal. i like the word felon, but that's just the type of criminal he is. he's now an adjudicated criminal running for the white house. joe biden, though, has i see three elements he has to always package together in his messaging. the first is he has to play offense on his own policy agenda. what he's doing for education and health care and infrastructure and immigration and reproductive rights and protecting people's right to vote. his agenda is most important. then you have to move to the fitness of donald trump, which is what you heard him talk about last night. donald trump is unfit. that packages into the stakes. what does the future look like if donald trump wins or not. and the stakes is where mitt romney and mattis and mcconnell and others have failed to rally around that seminole moment which is the stakes are too high to suggest that there really isn't a good choice in november. there's a good choice. that good choice is joe biden. >> i think that the most -- i would say two things. i messaged for candidates. it's impossible to get a candidates to carry three messages anywhere. they don't remember it between backstage and the podium. and this isn't a joe biden thing, it's any candidate. i think there is an appetite in the democratic coalition which delivered him a resounding victory in '24, a relentless conversation about donald trump. he's running to be a dictator, he's running against the press, against the rule of law, against american democracy. >> this is where joe biden as president can talk about that. i'm not suggesting he doesn't, because he actually, following the conviction, i was really curious, how are they going to handle this? because a low blow from the campaign is fine. a low blow from the president feels a little differently. but he has a duty as president, whether it polls well or not, to remind the american people about donald trump's criminality and lack of fitness. i think you're seeing him wade into that message. >> i think blunt is a better way to talk about it. >> donald trump is a criminal. >> it's not negative to call him a convicted felon. it's blunt, the truth. i have to sneak in a break. still to come, republicans on the hill today in a hearing with merrick garland ramping up the gop's long line of attacks against the justice department. how merrick garland responded to that and the conspiracies being spread about the ex-president's criminal cases which he says are putting thousands of everyday employees at the department in danger. and later in the broadcast, the wheels of justice at work again today. wisconsin becoming state number five to bring felony charges against donald trump's coup plotting allies and their attempts to overturn his 2020 election defeat. we'll get to that story and much more when deadline white house continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. t go anywhere. organic soil from miracle-gro has grown me the best garden i have ever had. good soil, and you get good results. look at that! the broccoli was fantastic. that broccoli! i think some of them were six, seven pounds. craig here pays too 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