thousands of americans i'm talking about bird flu i know stay with me here. if you have been following the news recently you may have seen the u.s. is currently dealing with an outbreak of bird flu bird flu has spread to at least 80 cattle herds across ove and because of that outbreak the fda,t the food and drug administration, has issued guidance forad how to stay safe and t avoid exposure including warningnc americans against drinking rawic milk. that's because raw milk has the potential to spread animal borne diseases from oneor species to another. this is pretty straightforward f noncontroversial scientific advice. don't drink raw milk. it's noncontroversial, except if you are ave conservative who follows the influential pro-trump youth organization, turning points usa. >>ts milk is good for you, but here'sr what the american dair farmer association is goingic t tell you is that pasteurized milk p crap you might as well b drinking water. ideally you need to be drinking raw milk. >> that was alex clark, a turning point usa host and one of the organization's chief proponents of drinking raw milk. she's such a raws milk enthusit she even tells her followers to drink raw milk while pregnant, something you absolutely should not do any under circumstances. and response tond the fda's warning about drinking raw milk during the bird flu outbreak she told her followers on social media "f" the fda, legalize raw milk. turning point usa is currently selling $35 t-shirts on their website o promoting raw milk. now, if this seems like an echo of thee anti-vaxx, anti-fauci, anti-science movement embraced by a ton of conservatives and therefore put a lot of -- that put a lot of this country at risk, well, that is because it is. it is precisely the kind of extreme, ownis the libs realitye damned position that is a hallmark ofn turning point usa under the influence of its founder and director, charlie kirk. they've been an influential part of maga land since donald trump was elected in 2016. and in repeat years kirk and his organization have become even more zaoutspoken about their mo extreme beliefs includic kirk's full throated embrace of christian nationalism. in addition to running what appears to be a raw milk propaganda outfit, charlie kirk is also a supporter of what is known asr the seven mountains mandate, a philosophy that calls for conservativehi christians t take over the government. and kirk has started speaking openly about how he wants donald trump to bebo the champion of tt cause. >> finally, we have a president that understands the seven mountains of cultural influence. finally we have a president that understands the significance of standing -- yes, i'm going to use the term -- in solidarity with the grass roots activists of our g country. >> across the country christian conservatives are becoming more ande more bold about making america a christian nation under trump even as trump himself continues tohi exhibit very unchristian behavior on a near daily basis. thisil was donald trump a week o at a campaign event inside a phoenix mega church. >> so they come up with this order. i won't say it because i don't like using the word bull [ bleep ] in front of these beautiful children. so if won't say it. i will not say't it, but this thing allows millions of people. >> donald trump swearing in a house of god and then getting the crowd to swear with him in front of children. we've seen the same thing from trump's allies. here was rudy giuliani speaking at the protrump christian reawaken tour just last week. >> i've got two prosecutors fani the ho -- i'm sorry. now, f-a-n-i is not fani, and i'm not calling her fani. i could have dropped the ho part if she just quit a go away. >> classy. all of this is part of trump's unspoken agreement with the far right. they let trump and his allies break the h rules and be vulgar and be blasphemous with the expectation they'll carry out life according to their christian values. hereia was trump just this week speaking to a conservative christian organization that believes allri abortion is, quo, child sacrifice. >> you're going to make a comeback like just about no other group. i know what's happening.ha i know where you're coming from and where you're going, and i'll be with you side by side. >> you're going tobe make a comeback and i'll be with you side by side. even as donald trump refuses to give straight answers on things where he stands like abortion or contraception, conservatives know what trump will do for them. and part of their confidence here that an extreme christian nationalist agenda is very much within their grasp, part of their confidence is these groups don'ts have to just rely on trp alone.ru they can count on trump's most powerful ally in the fight for the christian dominion, the conservative majority on the united states supreme court. just thisit week we heard supre court justice samuel alito tell a progressive actest that he believes wete need to return america to a place of godliness. as elizabeth and lisa write for "the new york times," while justice alito is hardly openly championing his views, he is embracing language and symbolism that line up with a much broader movement. the movement's rise has been evident across the country since mr. trump lost re-election in 2020. justice alito and his fellow conservatived justices have already delivered for the christian right with their dobbs decision, striking down roe v. wade, and soon they will have a chance to do so again. the supreme court is about to rule on two major cases of considerable significance to the christian right. one will determine whether access to the most common form ofe abortion in this country i significantly restrictive or not. and another will determine whether doctors in emergency rooms canin deny pregnant women medically necessary abortions. how the court rules on these issues could tell us just how much power the christian nationalist movement has gained in thisna country and how close they are toho victory. joining me now are lisa lair, the national political correspondent for "the new york times," and also the author of the new book "the fall of roe, the o rise of new america." and with me is joseph stern, senior writer who covers the courts and law at slate magazine. thank you both for joining me. lisa, let me start with a piece you have todayec out in "the times." you note an o array of conservatives including anti-abortion activists, church leaders, and conservative state legislators has openly embraced the idea that american democracy needs to be guarded against the rise ofgu secular culture. that strain of conservatism now seems to dominate the supreme court as well. do you think that's far off? >> look, part of what we document in our book "the fall of roe and the rise of a new america" is the latter part of the title, the rise of new america. and what that ise he about the of conservative christians, and we've seen some of that come out ine the tapes. the southern baptist convention, which represents, you know, the largesth protestant denominati in the country, 13 million church goers came out and said they oppose ivf. this is fairly radical statement for that group, and we're seeing this return to these christian conservative cultural values from the churches all the way up to alito's statements at the court. so i do think what we're watching is this shift in american power. where it's going to go, but we have a bit of a template for success for this movement, and that of course is theve fall of roe and how that network of conservative christian activists and lawyers were ableor to take down that legal pres dependent may be a way they can then move onto tackle these other things they are opposed to like we learned today, ivf. >> i do -- when we talk about shifting the window and moving the goal posts on the field, it feels like the activists on the outside, on the o fringes of th far-right, are in t some ways signaling to the alitos of the world, okay, this is where we're at, see if you can get here. mark, i wonder if you can talk about alito's evolution here. he wasn't always this explicit or radicalized when he joined the court.d >> i think a crude or accurate way to describe alito is a maga pild. he really let his christian nationalist flag fly and began to embrace not only the rhetoric but also the substance of this far-right christian supremacy and this idea that christianity is rooted in the constitution, that we are a christian nation and that courts have some kind of c obligation to protect and indeed elevate christianity above not just other religions but above secular society. and he went on a little bit of a talking tourt earlier this dece where he decried the new moral code of secularism that promoted reproductivepr freedom and lgbt equality, and said that it was an existential threat to christianity. and all of this is reflected very much in his decisions, decisions like one a few years ago where he tried today let pharmacists deny plan-b to patients to whom it was prescribed. not any kind of actual abortion drug but just plan' b. in decisions like hobby lobby where he's allowed corporations to restrict employees access to birth control and to their own health plans. and most recently these abortiob cases most notably dobbs, samuel alito was always going to be the manal to write that opinion overruling roe v. wade. in the coming weeks we're going to get these decisions on abortionns especially the abortn pill, and i think alito is likely to stick his neck out ani write in that decision how he believes abortion medication is unlawful under the comstock law of 1873. this is radicalized justice maximizing his impact by staking out positions that activists in the grassroots want him to take, legitimizing and shifting the overten window and he hopes transforming them into the law of the land. >> it's quite t obvious that th dna of the christian conservative warrior class has imprinted itself upon the supreme court, but,lf lisa, whe we talk about the relationship in politics between, for example, donald trump and his pro-maga coalition and the conservative christian warrior class, i wonder if trumpism hasn't also imprinted itself on them. i'm just thinking about those two pieces of soundnk we played where donald trump is inun a church, a big church and the common response is the word b.s. it's ahe family program so i'm t going to say the actual word, and rudy giuliani is calling fani willis, the d.a. down in fulton county, one of the most vulgar things you can call a black woman with distinct racist undertones. >> yeah, look, the church has changed politics but politics has changed the church, too. especially catholic and evangelicist churches have grown more political. they made this deal with donald trump. he promised theme in 2016 in ia christianity will have power, and conservative christians jumped on the trump train, and it ended up being a bullet train for them. they got these three justices on the supreme court and deal was set. and now they've been with him for eight years, and for conservative christians they're with him. if he can sort'r of moderate hi tone on abortion, say he wouldn't sign a 15-week federal ban, and they're still probably going to stick with him. they're fully bought in and part of this maga movement, and the two are operating together. now, you know, donald trump is in k a different position becau the politics of abortion have changed so radically, and you've seen them come out and say it should be returned today the states, that he supports exceptions to the ban for rape, incest, and for the life of the mother. so that dance has gotten more complicated for him politically, but there's not a sense he's losingns this group that's real become a central core of his movement and his base of support. >> yeah, one wonders where the guardrails are in any of it, right? the republican party has effectively pledged fealty to anything trump represents, christian warrior class and all. and then on the supreme court, mark, how much is a counterweight is someone like chief justice roberts or brett kavanaugh? does even the attempt of counter weighing happen on the supreme court? >> they're a very feeble counterweight when they choose to be one at all. all three of trump's appointees generally vote in lock step with what the republican party wants. trump, of course, has taken over the party, so it is very much his core. and i thinkh it's really disturbing especially to look at some of these decisions that do involve extreme circumstances of tragics medical mishaps when women w are in dire need of abortion right. this is one of the big cases this term. states are saying women can't get abortions, that they have to get sepsis, they have to begin hemorrhaging, they have to be dying before they can get abortions. well, republican politicians lined up to agree with those laws and support those laws at the supreme court. you had a ton of state attorneys general and nominees saying we do think they should be on the verge of death before they can get abortions. i think the supreme court will likelyk agree with them and foe women to these circumstances. and trump is savvy enough not to say anything about it, because he knows he's got his foot soldiers in the judiciary doing the work for him. he's got his guys on the bench who are ready to uphold the most draconian abortion bans imaginable and he doesn't have to say anything. and just by remaining silent and not speaking out and condemning these bans, he knows he can keep the christian right very much on his side.n and that is the whole genius of strategy capturing the courts. you get these geniuses and justices on the bench for decades they will do your building, uphold these draconian policy. and most people don't draw those lines between the parties the presidents belong to, so they keep getting away with the this stuff, and that is very much the story of v trumpism in the judiciary. >> yeah, a story where there's no accountability. thank you both for your time tonight. coming up, the gaslighting continues as republicans vote to hold attorney general merrick garland in contempt of congress. of but first new secret recordings have given us insight into the real thoughts of samuel alito and martha-ann. i'm going to speak to a neighbor who was an altercation outside her home and made the flag a national scandal. that's next. ade the flag a national scandal that's next. was a battle of wi. oh, maria, i'm wise to your foolish game. is it gone? totally gone. itch relief just got easier. apoquel. the trusted number one treatment for allergic itch is now available in a tasty chewable that works in a day. do not use in dogs with serious infections. may cause worsening of existing parasitic skin infestations or preexisting cancers and serious infections. new neoplasias have been observed. do not use in dogs less than 12 months old. ask your vet for apoquel chewable. do it! after "the new york times" reported that two flags associate would the january 6th insurrection had flown at the homes of supreme court justice samuel alito, the justice defended himself last month in a letter by putting the blame squarely on his wife, martha ann alitom i was not aware of any connection to the historic flag and the stop the steal movement and neither was my wife. she did not fly it to associate herself with that or any other group. but audio of marketa ann alito released this week by undercover progressive activist lauren windsor paints a decidedly different picture of mrs. alito's flag collection and why she flew them. >> you know what i want? i want a sacred heart of jesus flag because i have to look across the lagoon at the pride flag for the next month. >> exactly. >> and he's like, oh, please don't put up a flag. i said i won't do it because i'm deferring to you, but when you are free of this nonsense i'm putting it up and i'm going to send them a message every day. maybe every week i'll be changing the flags. i made a flag in my head. this is how i satisfy myself. i made a flag, it's white and has yellow and orange flames around it and in the middle is the word vergogna. in italian means shame. >> emily, thank you very much for joining us tonight. i'm really eelger to hear your reaction to the audio just released. we played that specific clip there because it really sounds mrs. alito is intentional when she flies these flags and there's absolutely a political point of view she's trying to communicate. what did you make of that audio? >> absolutely. first of all, thank you so much for having me tonight. it's a pleasure to be here. and to hear her talk about the flags in that way just solidifies what we all know is that they're meant to display a particular message. she mentions the -- being upset by the pride flag and wanting to fly a sacred heart of jesus flag. well, that flag specifically means anti-lgbtq, anti-pride, so it's very clear what she's doing with the flag. and that just proves us all right in his statement he's lying where he says, well, we didn't have any reason why, we don't know what it means, et cetera. >> yeah, that she wasn't trying to be part of a movement or group. i think that's questionable given the fact she's absolutely flying these flags in response to certain groups. emily, i've got to ask you because she's so animated about this flag she'd like to make that says vergogna, which means shame in italian, it brought back to mind your account of the alitos in "the new york times" when mrs. alito confronted you, you said something to her like how dare you behave this way, you've been harassing us over signs. you represent the highest court in the land, shame on you. the concept of shame really seems to animate her. and i wonder if you could talk more about your interaction with her when the word shame and the concept of shame was discussed? >> yes. well, that -- so that interaction the one that happened on february 15th is the one they're using as an excuse why they flew the upside down flag, which doesn't make sense because it was weeks before the flag was up. what do i make of it? it's just -- it's such an intense interaction, and it was about the third time that this has happened each time escalating more and more. and, yeah, i meant it. shame on you for behaving this way because you do represent the highest court in the land, and that was more intended towards him who was there as well and did not step in. >> can you talk a little bit about the relationship between the alitos as you saw it? he was present for some of these interactions if you want to call that. and there's part of the undercover interview -- or the undercover audio that we heard where martha ann alito talks about her plan for seeking justice for all that has befallen her. let's play that sound. >> it's okay because if they come back to me i'll get them. there's a five-year defamation statute of limitations. >> i don't know who you mean by they. >> the media. >> so martha-ann alito has mapped it up. what is the relationship between these two people? do you think what she says is tacitly endorsed by him, or is that overestimating her import in terms of family strategy? >> yes, you know, i don't think it's for me or anybody else to -- to say that or to pass any judgment on their relationship. all i witnessed was her, you know, behaving in that way and him not stepping in. and what i really just want to point out is that there's no way he didn't know those flags were flying at his house. and in those same recordings in this own words he is unable to be impartial. he says that there are two sides and one side must win, and he's basically saying that he sits on one side, and he said that he can't negotiate with the other side. he can't split the difference, as he put it. and that is a giant red flag. and at this point we'v