romney appeared outside solyndra's headquarters. you can decide for yourself whether government investment in emerging technologies is good or bad. it's not for us to decide. there are two cases in massachusetts with connections to then governor romney getting money from the commonwealth and then going bust. the biofirms got more than $2 million from the commonwealth's emerging technology fund before going under. according to the boston herald, who broke the story, both were run by romney campaign donors. the loans were proved by a seven person advisory board that included two romney appointees and three romney campaign con contribute uniters. the romney campaign said it wasn't romney's idea. this specific funding was part of a stimulus package that governor romney opposed on the grounds the government should not pay venture capitalists. he vetoed half the funding but it was overwritten by the legislature. this weekend a surrogate was asked about the contra diction. >> how about all these cases where they give tax breaks to companies, there was a company in rhode island that they had -- they enticed to come over and then went bankrupt. >> in the structure in massachusetts, as i frs it, it is a commission of political appointees that the governor does not have direct control over. >> you're saying romney was opposed to all of this? >> what governor romney said when he was governor of massachusetts, we should not have the state investing in private enterprise. we should be reprogramming this money, and he tried to reprogram the money away from those kinds of investments. >> the record seems to contradict that. back in 2003, shortly after taking office, he acted and sounded like a fan of state investment and enterprise. not a critic. talking about the state's existing renewable energy fund, he said, the trust fund has been growing for years. now is the time to refocus its assets if a manner it can become a spring board for the commonwealth. he seemed to want to sharpen the focus on green energy. later that year he signed the law he later tried to veto, which is subtitled an act relative to investments and emerging technologies to promote job creation, economic stability and competitiveness in the massachusetts economy. is romney attacking president obama on solyndra hypocritical? two sides? joining us now, alex castellanos and james carville. is it hypocritical? >> i guess to some extent it is. i don't know what we have in this campaign, bricks of glass. the thing is, is that who knows if it's comparable or not, sure does make the water murky for governor romney and attacks on solyndra. for a while it looked like they had a clean hit on the president. this does muddy the waters a little bit. it's pretty good news for the obama campaign. it's not that -- the greatest thing in the world, i don't think the solyndra attack was the greatest thing in the world, but it does murk it up and it did have some effect. >> does it muddy the watt summer. >> it does muddy the water a little bit, until you start parting the waters perhaps. it's pretty clear in some cases that mitt romney tried to defund this trust fund that funded these things. he vetoed the legislation. the loan for one of the instances was made before he became governor. and in fact by nature, mitt romney is a venture capitalist. what he did for a living is competed with these government investment funds. that's why he didn't believe in them. and he said so at the time. >> right. >> i would bet alex a nickel to a doughnut that when things come out that a lot of the companies that governor romney invested in, will very heavily lobby to get government help. i think that happens in a lot of instances, i would be very cautious about saying somebody is a pure capitalist, and that kind of thing. my guess is, is that they were very aggressive in lobbying the government. >> i think you are probably exactly right on this one. as you often are. and i think the reason ises you often play by the rules you're given, we've seen president bill clinton do that. you oppose certain kinds of campaign fund-raising laws, you have to live under them. it's the same thing here, governor romney was with tasked with administering these funds and doing them in the best way with possible. it didn't mean he opposed them or supported them. >> romney is also saying that basically friends and family kind of were given a sweetheart deal where there's no evidence of that. in fact, they looked into it bs and said there's no evidence of that? >> yeah, and i think this is one of the things the president was enthusiastic about this, it did not start under him. it may have been a bad decision, just like he made a bad decision in massachusetts. sometimes people make good decisions. he made a good decision on gm. i think that's kind -- no, you can't say anything, they can say it, it's a legitimate attack, and probably one of these things that went awry. i don't think there's anything criminal about it. you make the calls, some good, some are bad. it does make it a little -- it does give them -- solyndra only lost a billion and a half dollars. and this thing in massachusetts only lost half a billion. well, given the size of the government, it was probably a bigger hit for them. it seems like a lot of money to most people. i don't think either one were with government at its finest hour. >> james, the db i think the solyndra thing was half a billion, and in massachusetts, we're talking about a million and a half, quite a different difference in scale. nevertheless, i think one of the things we're seeing is the obama campaign is determined to trip mitt romney coming out of the gate. they want to find him neglect as an unacceptable republican. they seem to be trying too hard. the campaign is trying to force square pegs into round holes. the bain attack didn't work, now they have problems with this, in that mitt romney -- the loan was with made before romney got there, it was made by an independent board, et cetera. administered by romney this is what happens when the guy with the 8% unemployment rate tries to attack the guy with the 4.7 unemployment rate for not doing as good a job. and so -- if this is the campaign, then it's off to a rocky start. >> i thought we have to take a liberal precedent. >> the job creation bill -- the unemployment rate at the end was 4.7%. >> and they lost more than -- they lost 200,000 people in their workforce, which is going to have an effect on the unemployment rate. the liberal media keeps pointing out the the job creation. and it should be louisiana. romney people need to call the liberal media. >> do you think governor romney's record of job creation, do you think he's vulnerable on that? james is right, they were 47. >> i think they're trying to sled up hill on this one. i spent a bit of time on this, i worked for governor romney on this campaign, had nothing to do with it this time. he was called back after the olympics to massachusetts, because it was a state in crisis. the tech bubble burst, they were bleeding jobs. romney came back in, cutting spending in an 85% democratic state, he turned that state around, got it on solid footing. it created net jobs, which barack obama has not yet been able to do. again, 4.7 is what he left with. president obama has got a very slow recovery that is not following the usual pattern. he's below average here. it's political malpractice to attack a guy that did a better job by the numbers than you did. >> are you saying obama created private sector jobs at present? are you saying that? are you saying he hasn't created private sector jobs? >> president obama has got a below average recovery -- >> but you said -- he has created more private sector jobs in three years than bush created in eight, will agree with thats won't you you? >> of course you will. you will agree that romney was 47th out of 50? and you will agree that romney -- exponentially increased the state's bonded debt. >> the state was in the toilet. 51st, he took it from 51st to 30. >> we can agree that obama's private sector job creation is better than bush. romney is 47th in job creation fks and he exponentially increased the bonded debtedness of the state. now we can move on from that and talk about something else he did. he made a lot of money in bain. which we agree with. >> when you ask me questions, i try not to interrupt. but i would like to try to answer them. job growth in that state. job growth, the rate of job growth was 37th and he moved it up to 12th in the rate he was with reducing unemployment. the state was 51st in unemployment, he moved it to 30th. he created 30,000 net jobs. if we can grow jobs, net jobs, which obama hasn't done, which is something that's a boone in the state. so he did a pretty good job at the end of the day, there's one number that's incontrovertible and unemployment was 4.7 in massachusetts, when mitt romney left. barack obama still can't get it below eight here, and it's on its way back up. that's the choice people are going to have to make. >> 68,000 and we would like to revisit this about the unemployment rate in mass mark because people were moving out of the state. but that's another thing, and we can go back and forth on these figures. but muddy the waters. >> james carville, allem castellanos. thanks. let me know what you think. in raw politics tonight, coming up, tomorrow's vote on whether to recall wisconsin's republican governor, and why everyone outside wisconsin has a big interest in how it comes out. potentially big implications for who wins the white house. that's next. [ male announcer ] when this hotel added aflac to provide a better benefits package... oahhh! [ male announcer ] it made a big splash with the employees. [ duck yelling ] [ male announcer ] find out more at... [ duck ] aflac! [ male announcer ] ...forbusiness.com. ♪ ha ha! ♪ high schools in six states enrolled in the national math and science initiative... ...which helped students and teachers get better results in ap courses. together, they raised ap test scores 138%. just imagine our potential... ...if the other states joined them. let's raise our scores. let's invest in our teachers and inspire our students. let's solve this. fight both fast with new tums freshers! concentrated relief that goes to work in seconds and freshens breath. new tums freshers. ♪ tum...tum...tum...tum... tums! ♪ [ male announcer ] fast relief, fresh breath, all in a pocket sized pack. raw politics. in a vote tomorrow, wisconsin with potentially serious national significance. less than 24 hours from now, wisconsin voters could give us a preview what may happen in the 2012 presidential election. whether to recall scott walker on the or replace him with tom baron. if successful, it would be only the third time any governor of any state is kicked out by voters. may also be a trial heat for november's presidential vote which may explain why bill clinton made a swing through wisconsin. equally intriguing is why president obama has not. also why republicans pumped millions of dollars into this race. ahead more on the fallout. but first tom foreman sets the stage. >> reporter: the movement to boot governor scott walker started when he outraged union workers in early 2011. he said the legislation to reduce collective bargaining rights for state employees was needed to balance the budget. but democrats called it a sneak attack on the working families. they've gathered hundreds of thousands of signatures all across wisconsin as the divisive recall campaign thunders to a conclusion. >> whatever it takes to get scott walker out of here. i'm happy. >> reporter: as the race has intensified between walker and his democratic challenger tom barrett, so have the nasty ads. >> he's all about scott walker. and not looking out for us. >> if tom barrett is willing to cover up hundreds of violent crimes in milwaukee, what else is he hiding? >> reporter: and the bitter words. >> i call them union pigs. they root in madison like pigs root in pig sties. >> reporter: and that widening fight has drawn big money and big names from outside the state. >> let me remind all you good people from wisconsin -- >> reporter: as national republican -- >> president bill clinton. >> reporter: -- and democratic forces push for a win. >> cooperation works. constant conflict is a dead bang loser and you need to get rid of it. >> reporter: on both sides, activists see this as a referendum on fiscal policies. on liberal versus conservative philosophies. and on how wisconsin may lean in the presidential race. >> this is not the wisconsin way. >> reporter: each candidate has denounced the ugliness of the race. >> he started this political civil war. >> reporter: but they've also attacked each other ferociously. >> the right wing loves him because he's doing exactly what they want him to do. he's not doing what the people in wisconsin want. >> so everybody's clear here, the mayor doesn't have a plan. all he's got is attacking me. that's what you just heard loud and clear there. >> reporter: so however things turn out tomorrow night, it seems unlikely the fight will be gone with the wind. tom foreman, cnn, washington. >> joining us now chief national correspondent john king and chief political analyst gloria borger. if governor walker wins which all polls indicate he will, what implications could that have on the map for november? >> i understand republicans are saying it would mean mitt romney can compete in wisconsin. this is wisconsin. i'm going to circle it here and turn this off. this is 2008. blue. it went democrat for president. here's 2004. blue. 2000. blue. 1996, blue. 1992, blue. 1988, even michael dukakis carried it, blue. does that mean mitt romney can get it? as of now this is the first day with this map. our new projection of the electoral. we lean democratic. right now you'd have to say based on the dna, the history i showed you, we consider it to be leaning democratic. if that changes that may put michigan in play, it might put pennsylvania in play. if republicans are having a resurgence. for now that is mostly democratic territory. look at the map. 247. you need 270 to win. dark blue, solid, or light blue leaning. 206 for governor romney. seven states right now we call toss ups. new hampshire, virginia, ohio, florida, iowa, colorado and nevada. that is the biggest contest, 85 electoral votes in the tossup states. they are the primary competition for now. might wisconsin get added to the mix? we'll have that conversation tomorrow night? >> gloria, we're seeing in the polls a lot of enthusiasm for governor walker in terms of coming out tomorrow night. it's not a shoe in for democrats come november? >> no, it's not. if i were a democrat in the obama campaign, i would look to 2010 and i would say wisconsin's the state that elected a republican governor. and it's got a republican legislature both houses. the history is barack obama won the state by 14 points. he's up by about eight points now. but i would take a look at what's going on in wisconsin now. and if scott walker wins, i think that's going to tell you a little bit about the mood of the people in the state of wisconsin. and their receptivity to the core messages of each party. if walker were to win handily, then if i'm a democrat looking at the electoral map, i would think, you know what? the republicans want to stretch where they're contesting in this race? and they're going to make a play for the state of wisconsin. >> john, as the campaigns look at the maps you showed, what are they most concerned about? >> number one, the obama campaign knows this is not mccain versus obama. this is more like bush v. gore. at this point. they could all break, but very competitive right now. what's the president concerned about? that you have lean blue. used to be traditional democratic strongholds. what is governor romney concerned about? number one, the president hopes to make a run here. arizona. john mccain carried it last time, 11 electoral votes. we're keeping it leaning red for now. he has to watch out there. it's harder. president obama only needs to get to 270, 23 electoral votes. if nothing else on the map changed, all he would have to do is win the state of florida and he'sed next president. meaning four more years. governor romney has a harder challenge. he has to win florida and probably ohio. if he does that you have a competitive race. here's what's very interesting, ohio and florida, they tend to decide presidential elections. if romney can pick up those states, the smaller ones, the colorado, nevada, iowa. imagine iowa and new hampshire where we began the campaign, they could settle it come election night. >> gloria, president obama campaigned for tom barrett for governor two years ago. he's kept his distance this time. governor walker and his support essay that's because the president thinks barrett's going to lose. do you think that's true? >> look, i think the obama administration was not thrilled about this recall election to begin with. i think if you would have given team obama is vote in this, they would say why would they want to have this recall at all? i think there is a case to be made, in fact, that the president has personally stayed away because he didn't want to tie himself to barrett's win or loss. he knew that all of us would be looking at it and reading the tea leaves. and i think there's another reason here which is that this race is going to bring out a lot of independent voters. and there's no point in president obama going to the state of wisconsin and alienating independent voters that he's going to ask to vote for him in the fall. so i think they took a look at this and decided okay. we're going to send bill clinton. that's great. we're going to send other top democratic surrogates. that's great. but you know what? we're going to keep the president out of this one. >> a lot of money pouring in, we'll see what happens tomorrow. thank you. well, a lot of watch tomorrow night. remember the guy we're about to put on the screen, this guy? he organized the lavish convention that cost more than $800,000 paid for with your tax dollars. now the agency is in hot water again over bonuses they paid against people under investigation for that same scandal. we're keeping them honest. you see us, at the start of the day. on the company phone list that's a few names longer. you see us bank on busier highways. on once empty fields. everyday you see all the ways all of us at us bank are helping grow our economy. lending more so companies and communities can expand, grow stronger and get back to work. everyday you see all of us serving you, around the country, around the corner. us bank. [ woman on r♪ bum-bum,stinct ] bum-bum, bum-bum ♪ ♪ bum-bum - ♪ ai, ai, ai - ♪ bum-bum - ♪ bum-bum, bum-bum - ♪ [ ice rattles rhythmically ] ♪ bum-bum, bum-bum, bum-bum ♪ ♪ [ imitates guitar noise ] ♪ [ vocalizing up-tempo heavy metal song ] ♪ [ vocalizing continues ] ♪ [ all singing ] the redesigned, 8-passenger pilot. smarter thinking. from honda. how did i get here? dumb luck? or good decisions? ones i've made. ones we've all made. about marriage. children. money. about tomorrow. here's to good decisions. who matters most to you says the most about you. massmutual is owned by our policyholders so they matter most to us. massmutual. we'll help you get there. perhaps you've seen the video. a child in church singing quote, ain't no homo going to make it to heaven. preaching against gays and lesbians on the rise? [ female announcer ] life is full of compromises. but when it comes to what you really love, you shouldn't have to sacrifice. and that goes double for ice cream. now you don't have to give up. you can give in with dreyer's slow churned light ice cream. we churn it slowly for all the rich and creamy taste with