primetime interview. this is "piers morgan tonight." chaz bono tells huz story in the new book "transition: the story of how i became a man" and "becoming chaz" on oprah winfrey's network. i watched you on david letterman last night. one of the most amusing encounters i've seen on a talk show in years. he was so uncomfortable. he didn't know quite how to handle you. quite how to deal with what you were telling him, the enormity of what you'd gone through. what was it like for you last night? >> you had a really good time. i like dave a lot. i've always been a fan. he's got this history with my family. so i really wanted to go on the show. i thought he represented a lot of people who really don't know about this issue. so it gave me a great opportunity to break it down, you know, really simply kind of do a transgender 101. so i was really happy to do that. >> tell me this. when he began laughing at what you were saying and some of the audience were -- not all -- some of them were -- did you feel awkward when that happens? >> not at all. no. it's that kind of a show. it's a fun show. i never felt like people were laughing at me. it was kind of a funny situation, me and, you know, dave talking about this stuff. so no, i had a really good time. >> it was entertaining to watch. >> yeah. >> i just wondered how you felt. >> i felt really good, actually. >> for the reasons you said, that he, like a lot of people, probably a slightly older jenner generation would find this hard to deal with. >> hard to deal with and hard to understand more than anything. i never got the sense that dave was judging me or had any -- >> no, no. >> -- at all other than really not understanding. >> do you think he got it by the end? >> i think he was starting to get it. >> maybe a little more. >> yeah, i think he was starting to get it. >> maybe send him to some transgender classes? >> i just -- you know, i want to get him off saying homosexual so much. so you know, if i did that, that will be great. >> the book's fascinating, the story is fascinating. like most people i can remember you as a little girl, "sonny and cher" shows. you don't have much memory of that time which i find very interesting. >> yeah, of when i was really little on the show and of that kind of the picture that everybody has in their head and, you know, that i was probably 2 or 3, i really don't remember that. >> i want to play you a clip from the show. just to remind people who don't remember. this was you on the "sonny and cher show." >> you can be a good little angel or you can be a naughty little devil. >> i'd rather be a naughty devil. >> all right, then pull it. >> you don't remember that. now you've seen it again. >> right. >> what memories does it bring back to you if anything? >> most of the memories i have of that time was backstage. the way that kids have silly memories of things. i remember that we shot at cbs and it was right near the farmer's market and i used to like to go there and get mexican food. those type of weird things. >> do you remember being -- >> i don't remember being -- >> -- part of a famous family? >> not at all. that didn't register at that point. then as i got older, it did. but not really about me. just when i was with my parents and especially my mom, just how everybody else reacted, i was, of course, aware of. >> what kind of girl were you as you got past that stage and became 7, 8, 9, when you can start to remember, what kind of girl were you? >> i guess what you would call a classic tomboy. but what i would say was, you know, i was really a boy. i felt like a boy and my friends were all boys. and i was really comfortable in that space in school from ages probably, you know, 6 through 10, 11. then as i started to get older and about to head into puberty, things started to get difficult. expectations of how a young lady should act started to creep in. and then, of course, i hit puberty and my body just started to transform in a way that was exactly the opposite of what i wanted it to do. >> were you able -- were you mature enough to understand this transformation wasn't right for you? or did you just feel odd? >> i felt like it wasn't right for me, but at that point i mean, i didn't know -- i didn't know about being transgender. i didn't know that people could transition from one -- i had no idea. i just knew that something felt incredibly wrong and what was happening to me, particularly i was very aware of my breasts and that they just felt wrong on my body. and that i always tried to de-emphasize them in every way -- wear baggy shirts and really try to de-emphasize them in every way that i could. >> to me in reading the book, the same time you're going through this extraordinary experience and the feelings that you're having, your mother is one of the most famous sex symbols, the embodiment of female beauty. >> right. >> does that make it more difficult for you? >> no, i don't think it really made it -- i think that was kind of incidental. i think it was difficult in that i think as a mother and during that time period, she had expectations of how she thought i was going to be and there was friction between us because of that. but i don't think it really mattered to me one way or the other that, you know, she was a sex symbol or any of those things. >> as you got a little older into your teens, you began to think in your mind that possibly you were just gay, you were a lesbian. >> right, that's what i initially thought. when i was about 14, i realized that i'm attracted to women and so i must be a lesbian. that must be what this feeling that i felt my whole life is. that must be the reason. >> and you weren't attracted to boys at all? >> never, no. >> you say that -- >> though i have to say i do -- i'm not used to having an hour. i can actually talk. i know, it's great. >> don't worry. >> in looking back and really after transitioning, there were some incidents when i was younger where i had really like, you know, guy crushes, that guys have on each other. and i didn't realize it at the time. and i thought, oh, this must be -- you must like him in a way that a girl likes a guy, and i would kind of pursue that. and then go on a date or something and be like, this feels -- this is absurd. i feel ridiculous. and i don't want to be intimate with this person at all, but i really like him in a special way. and it was like i was having bromances before i realized i was a guy. >> you had sex once with a guy. >> once, yes. >> what was the experience like? >> just kind of bland, really. i mean, it wasn't like a horrific dramatic experience in any way. it was just like -- >> why did you do that? to prove to yourself that you -- >> no, it wasn't, no. it was kind of immature, but i was only 16 at the time. so many people would say to me, because i was out to my friends and everything. and people when i would tell them, how do you know? you've never been with a man. and so i wanted to do it so i could say i've done it. i know. >> so you get to your late teens. you now assume that you're a lesbian. >> right. >> what is that like for you? as you go forward, you start to go out with girls, does that feel natural and normal to you at the time? >> it does, but there's an expectation of the girls that i'm going out with, that i'm supposed to act like a girl, too. and that felt weird. like in high school, i had some experiences with girls who were experimenting more and were really probably straight and actually were probably responding to my male energy because i still know them and they've never been with any other woman. so that felt really good, but then as i like after high school when i actually started going out with lesbians, there was an expectation from them that i was supposed to act a certain way like a woman, and that started to feel really uncomfortable. >> you must be getting really confused. >> i was very confused and uncomfortable for a lot of my life. >> at what point does the confusion you have when you think you're a lesbian start to transform into there's something else here. >> right. >> and at what point do you work out what that something else may be? >> for me it was a pretty long process, actually. and it was probably around 30, 31, and i remember i was dating somebody who had a lot of lesbian friends. and so i was doing a lot of different -- going to a lot of social events. i can remember being at some big like house barbecue and there are a lot of lesbians around. i was kind of sitting back and watching and thinking and looking at everybody. and i realized that even the more masculine women there still had a really strong female identity. and it dawned on me that i never had that. and so at that point i started to think maybe i'm not a lesbian. and if i'm not, what am i? and at that point i started to go back over my whole life in my head and just put all of these different things together. >> we'll have a short break. when we come back, we'll get to the moment when you decide, i want to be a man. >> okay. >> we're also going to hear from nick cannon about an extraordinary scam targeting his wife mariah carey and their babies. >> saying that my wife was drinking beer and all that stuff. people will do anything to try to conjure up a story. web browsing on the new blackberry playbook? 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[ male announcer ] get the venture card from capital one, money magazine's best rewards card if you aim to rack up airline miles. what's in your wallet? so, you're a democrat right? everything is changing. there's so much clarity coming, and i'm sure there will be more things that i discover that i just didn't realize until i went on hormones and started to feel comfortable. >> i'll give you a mirror if you want to see. >> nice and flat, huh? >> wow. looks beautiful. >> there you go. >> a documentary "becoming chaz." and chaz bono is with me now. this is an extraordinary documentary, an extraordinary story and centers really around the pivotal moment when you decide, i actually want to be a man. >> mm-hmm. >> and i'm going to do something about this. tell me about that moment. >> well, it was a long time coming, so i think i was starting to put it together around my early 30s. and then suddenly i was like how can i -- what can i do about this? i'm a public figure. if i transition, the whole world's going to know. and i felt like i'm going to just be, i don't know, a laughingstock. and so it took me years and years to get over the myriad of fears that i had about it. and in the end, i think it was -- i finally started to put my needs above everybody else's. and that's really what it took for me. i was the kind of person that always worried about everybody else before me and everybody less else's feelings. >> this is my life. >> yeah, this is my life. and i'm going to be 40 and i need to do this for myself. the actual moment happened kind of in two part in a therapy session where i had that epiphany. this is my life and i need to do this. then i went home and was talking to jenny about it. and we got in to this huge fight -- >> this is your girlfriend, who is coming on in a moment. >> yes, exactly. i got so -- like she triggered something in me in this fight. and i had this primal experience happen of i think all of the repression feelings that i stuffed down for so many years came out in this enormous primal scream. we literally afterwards both knew this has got to happen. >> and remarkably -- i don't say remarkably because i don't know her at all, but jennifer stayed with you. >> yes. >> and has supported you, difficult as it has been for her. and we'll discuss in a moment how difficult it has been. pretty amazing that she's done that. >> it is. >> now listen to a clip of your mother cher. her reaction to your transition. >> it's been difficult for different -- anyone different. for, you know, from burning people that they thought were witches. any time you're different, you're going to pay some sort of a price. it depends on the culture as to what price you pay. you know? and chaz works with children as young as 3 and 4 that just feel that they're in the wrong body, and she does counseling, you know -- he does counseling. so it's a very difficult thing. >> even your mother's not quite sure if you're a he or a she, chaz. that's an uncomfortable moment. >> for her, look, it's ingrained. it's 40 years of saying "she." so it takes a little time to get out of that habit. >> be brutally honest. >> okay. >> your mom, from all i've read, wasn't happy about the fact that you were a lesbian to start with, your father sonny reacted better to that. >> mm-hmm. >> that's correct? >> that is correct, yes. >> so when you come with another whammy which is, mom, if you thought that was bad, take a load of this. how did she react when you first said to her -- by then she'd got used to you being a lesbian. >> definitely. >> some of the interviews she was supportive and became a loving mother. but then you hit her with this new bombshell, how did she react? >> again, we talked about it over time. so it wasn't like one, you know, bombshell. >> she knew. >> that this was something that i was feeling and struggling with and trying to figure out. when i finally went to her shortly after the incident with jen and told her i'm going to do this. you know, i've been struggling with this and i realize this is something i need to do and i'm going to do it, she was actually unbelievably supportive. just like amazing. i kind of couldn't believe it. she was so calm, and we had a wonderful talk about it. and then i think as the reality started to hit her, it became more difficult for her and really she's talked about when my voice started to change, it really hit her. and she had to go through -- >> because she's now got a son. >> right, exactly. >> for the first time in 40 years. >> yes. she had to grieve the loss of her daughter, of that little bit of female side that i had. >> some of the interviews she was supportive and became a loving mother. but then you hit her with this new bombshell, how did she react? >> again, we talked about it over time. so it wasn't like one, you know, bombshell. >> she knew. >> that this was something that i was feeling and struggling with and trying to figure out. when i finally went to her shortly after the incident with jen and told her i'm going to do this. you know, i've been struggling with this and i realize this is something i need to do and i'm going to do it, she was actually unbelievably supportive. just like amazing. i kind of couldn't believe it. she was so calm, and we had a wonderful talk about it. and then i think as the reality started to hit her, it became more difficult for her and really she's talked about when my voice started to change, it really hit her. and she had to go through -- >> because she's now got a son. >> right, exactly. >> for the first time in 40 years. >> yes. she had to grieve the loss of her daughter, of that little bit of female side that i had. and as time has gone on, i think she's become more and more comfortable and understanding about it. she'll continue to. >> you certainly put her through the hoop, haven't you, chaz, let's be honest. >> i guess. but i've always been a pretty good kid, a good guy. you know, this is how i was born. so -- >> do you think your mother knew? do you think she had an inkling from an earag d ouwagog ple aulreth we >> and you've beenn evywreha y bn ri miaasovedhianho >> had you done this 25 years ago -- >> it would have been completely different uncht might have been abused in the streets. you've had none of that. >> none of that. >> that's a remarkable sign of our times. >> it is. >> does it make you feel good? >> it makes me feel really great. i went to the yankee store to buy a cap and the guy recognized me and couldn't have been cooler. hey, chaz. >> that must make you feel great. >> it does, it does. >> hey, chaz. that's cool. let's take a break and come to somebody else who is pretty cool, which is your girlfriend who stood by you, who is as brave as you. >> she is. [ male announcer ] to the seekers of things which are one of a kind. the authentic, the rare, the hard to define. to those who'd climb mountains or sail across seas for the perfect vanilla or honey from bees. to the lovers of orchards where simple is grown, who treat every bite as a world of its own. to those always searching for what's pure and what's real from we who believe we know just how you feel. haagen-dazs. hey, dad, think i could drive? i'll tell you what -- when we stop to fill it up. ♪ ♪ [ son ] you realize, it's gotta run out sometime. ♪ [ son ] you realize, it's gotta run out sometime. thbe pt delicious gourmet gravy. and she agrees. wi fcyest gravy lovers, uratannjoy the delicious, satisfying taste grmet gravy every day. fay as the best ingredient is love. i was sober when we met. but when things get tough, i start to drink. i mean, i remember when chaz told me that he was going to do this and i said, well, i can't be sober for this. >> chaz bono's girlfriend jennifer who joins us now. jennifer, in many ways you've been through an even more dramatic period of your life than chaz has. at least he knew kind of what was going on. you didn't have a clue really, did you? >> well, early on in our relationship, he told me -- actually, i was told by a friend of his that he was indeed transgender. and i asked him. and he said -- this was in our first year, within the first few months, he said he was, but he wasn't planning on doing anything about it at the time. he was comfortable living masculine and as masculine as possible but he would indeed want to do it at some point. >> what was your honest reaction when he said that? >> i compartmentalized that and put it away. >> quite something to compartmentalize. your girlfriend says, i want to become a man. >> and i said, we're good for now. i went back in the kitchen and went about my day. i knew we would have to deal with this some day. >> the advantage of having you as a girlfriend, you're bisexual, correct? >> yes, that's correct. >> that's not conjecture, that's the fact. you would be the person who would potentially find him as attractive as a man as he was as a woman. the question to me is do you? >> i find him more attractive as a man. >> really? you lucked out. talk about backing the winner. >> i know. >> yeah. i mean, i was -- you know, i am attracted to both men and women, but it is different to have that happen in the same person. >> when it came out of his compartmentalization, great word, and he broke free from that and he was going for the tr