>> right there on the scene, while nick of the most punitive men in america, michael moore. >> a happy day for me as 1 i will be unemployed when i don't have to make another movie and read another one of these book. the real people in this country are in charge and i don't have to do any dust anymore. that is my nevada. >> that was half an hour ago. miraculously, you have appeared on time. it was a little bit here, we lock you out. >> i was down there at the protest but we made it back. >> is that what life is about? people on the streets, protesting having their voice? does that sum up michael moore? >> i am a citizen of this country so first and foremost before i am a filmmaker or anything else, i am a citizen. i try as much as possible to participate as a citizen care placement i resist down there about an hour ago, there was a man there from a more concerted news channel and asking me what was i doing down there. and why am i against capitalism. you do so well, why are you against capitalism. i said you don't know what capitalism is these days. the majority of this country and everybody else is scrambling for crumbs. and i look forward to the day when i don't have to make another one of these films are too many of this because that would be the ultimate best thing to happen. your films have been very direct and the processors that wall street seemed to me to not be lacking in any formal direction. if u.s. and what they're protecting about, whoa kind of people are they. people are a bit cynical about what is going on down there. what do you think. >> when there's a move more protests a star, this is just the beginning. if you look back at the beginning of the women's liberation movement, the anti-war movement against vietnam, those were just a few people and the majority of the country didn't agree with them. what is great about this is that the majority of the country actually agrees with those protesters on wall street. >> they are not paying their fair share of the taxes. and now with the citizens and not a case in the supreme court, they can buy politicians out in the open. assessment so this is a conglomeration of ideas and thoughts of what's happening. but it points to are we going to live in a democracy that's run by the majority of the people or living in a kleptocracy where the kleptomaniacs down on wall street have stolen pension funds, wrecked lives, millions are thrown out of their homes, millions without health insurance, how many more millions of people do they think they're going to abuse like that before you start to see people stand up? what i just saw down there, the little i've seen on the news, they show all the hippies, the drums and the -- and all that. i saw a wide cross-section of people. >> what kind of people are they? >> workers. that's the first thing i noticed. people have driven to this from all over the eastern part of the country. >> are they unemployed, ex-bankers, what are they? >> i didn't meet any ex-bankers. >> i'm told there are ex-bankers down there. that's why i asked that. >> i met housewives, i met people who are unemployed, i met people that were just getting out of work and just coming down there at 6:00. a lot of them are students. these students, you know, they're the ones that are really screwed. >> i'm surprised, i'll come to that. i'm surprised there haven't been more protests. i really am. i would have thought that given the state of the economy, given the state of the jobs crisis, given the way that so many people in america are suffering, i'm amazed there aren't more people marching on the streets saying i've had enough. >> first of all, change takes a while. people are afraid, they don't and it know what to do. they don't been know -- look, we got rid of slavery in 1863 in this country. it wasn't until the 1960s that you saw the large marches and the civil rights act being a hope passed. women couldn't vote until 1920, and then you didn't have the real women's liberation movement until the '60s and '70s. things take time. this won't take that long. this won't take a hundred years for people to respond because wall street has overplayed its hand. they've come down too hard on too many people, especially people in the middle class who used to believe in wall street. >> you mentioned students. when you look at what happened with the arab spring uprisings, one of the key factors in that bond were better educated young people who came out of education and had no jobs and thought, i'm not having this. you see a similar kind of sentiment now with these protesters down on wall street, many of these are students and it is not crippling expensive for them. and this is the wrong way for the american dream to work, isn't it? >> that's correct. the guardian had a wonderful essay on this a day or so ago. >> you tweeted it. >> yes, i did. if people have a chance to read it. basically the reporter, the man said, those young people are down there to reclaim their future. their future was stolen from them by these bankers, by these corporations by a system that has them in debt at age 22 just because they went to school. i mean, when people of my generation went to school, especially like in the university of california system or the suny system here in new york, you paid 20 bucks a semester, 30 bucks. >> it wasn't wall street that caused that. that is a government issue in relation to the education system. >> no, that's a shift of money. yes, it is. a shift of money so that wall street and the corporations it represents can become rich especially off war. $2 billion a week is spent on these war. who is making that money? wall street and these corporations are making the money. that's where the money is going. it's being sucked out of education, sucked out of their future, sucked out of people's pension funds. the whole gamut of it. people are on to it. this is why these young people won't have to wait very long for their to be a response in this country because the majority agrees with them that they've been ripped off, abused, that we have a sick healthcare system, all these things that are wrong that just feed huge, huge profits. >> are you in favor of all protests? and the reason i ask that is you saw what happened in britain recently, london what did you make of that? it spread to other cities. what did you think of that protest? >> i don't think it was a protest. >> that's why i ask you. >> you can only push people so far. and human beings, human beings will respond. you can just put the boot down on the neck so hard. and in your country in your system there where people have gotten, you know, come to expect that they paid taxes, they pay taxes to get certain things back, and when they see that that isn't happening and that this is a new britain, that's not the britain they want. and they responded. it's not the way i would respond, but that's the way they responded. >> i don't think it was that sophisticated. i don't think those people pay taxes. i think a lot of them were common, petty criminals in that case. that's why i was asking you about it. i do think what's happened around the middle east has fired people up to do something, but it has to be for the right reason. there has to be a control over this. >> no. >> where is your line drawn in active protesting? you wouldn't endorse looting, would you? >> no, of course not. i don't endorse any form of violence or anything like that. the difference between britain and the middle east, because it was the right thing and it was organized the right way even though it was sort of a grassroots thing, everybody came together and everybody agreed this is what it should be. there was no core, there was no soul to what was happening in britain. now we've got to do this or get together and do that. it was a random thing. it's the thing the mayor of the city, michael bloomberg, said could happen here if we don't get busy creating jobs right now. he said this two weeks ago. >> when you saw obama's jobs plan come out, any evidence it will work? >> sure, of course. a good step in the right direction, yes. >> has he failed in not doing this before? >> yes. first of all, he didn't do enough of it before and he used a word called "stimulus" that, you know, what does that mean? it means something else. >> but if he hadn't done that it could have been much more catastrophic. the damage was done before obama came to power. >> right. of course it was. he inherited an incredible mess. he didn't go far enough first time. now he's going farther. good to see him responding in this manner. >> obviously you blame the republicans. are there individuals in the financial system that when you look back over what happened, who are the figureheads that should be culpable here. no one's really been held to account for, as you say, the greatest financial crisis in our lifetime, probably in history. there's no accountability here. >> right. that's because people don't really know who they are. i mean, people -- >> who are the bad guys, do you think? >> the bad guys are the people who run goldman sachs, people that run morgan stanley, the ratings agencies that gave them all this phony baloney ratings, the banks that set up this fraudulent mortgage system, bank of america, wells fargo, all these banks that rip people off, ruin their lives, ruined the banks themselves but not so much as to where they couldn't get the bailout in time. so those are the people we should really be focusing on. but they don't come on piers morgan. you don't see their face. you don't know who they are. >> that's true. most of them don't. >> no. no. we don't, right? if you asked people who was the head of goldman sachs, most people couldn't say that man's name and he wouldn't come on here and talk to you. >> lloyd blankfein, if you're watching, we're here. you're a very, very successful very rich filmmaker. in a way that is capitalism. you've got a business. >> is it really? >> in a pure sense. >> there's nothing pure about capitalism. >> what is it? >> first of all, i do well. for a documentary filmmaker, i do really well. i'm very blessed and fortunate that people want to go see my movies. the only reason i do well is so many millions want to see my movies. they wouldn't go see them and i wouldn't be sitting here. >> is there a good form of capitalism? has it been corrupted? >> when you say the word capitalism, you have to talk about it in its current sense. you can't talk about the old days or the adam smith, old capitalism. >> wasn't america fundamentally built on a form of capitalist dream. the idea that you can come from nowhere. >> and you work hard and everybody else prospered. as you prospered the wealth was shared with your employees, with the government, everybody had a piece of the pie. you who started the business or invented the light bulb or whatever, you got a bigger piece of the pie. and you know what? nobody cared because you invented the light bulb. >> where did it go wrong? >> first of all, we started rewarding people not for making things or inventing things. we reward people for making money off money and moving money around and dividing up mortgages a thousand times over, selling it to china and trying to figure out how i can make more money off of this money and it becomes a shell game where no one knows where the actual cash is that we're spinning around here. we got so lost, we have been so on the wrong path for quite some time now that the idea of capitalism -- there's nothing wrong with you or me or anybody here earning a dollar working hard, being rewarded for that. nobody has ever been against that. we're against greed, and we're against the fact that 1% could get nine slices of the pie and the other 99% are supposed to fight over the last slice. that's un-american, that's not democracy. it's not christian or jewish or buddhist or muslim. none of the major religions -- they all say it's probably one of the worst sins you can commit is to take such a large piece of the pie while others suffer. 46 million people living in poverty right now in the united states. that's an absolute crime, it's immoral. these guys are posting the largest profits ever this year. you're right, where's the rage? where's the uprising? it's starting right now down on wall street. starts with the young people. people watching this tonight, people are afraid they'll be foreclosed on this year, don't know if they'll be out of a job next year, can't afford the medical bills for their kids. they're sitting home right now going god, i wish i could do something. what can i do? somebody has to start it somewhere. it will spread across the country. believe you me, it won't be because of anything i say or you say, people already feel it. they're sick and tired of it. i think you'll see it happen more and more this this country. >> hold your own fury for a moment. i'll come back and ask you about the is obama revitalized? you saw him this weekend. is that the right thing? 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[ male announcer ] just like you, business pro. just like you. go national. go like a pro. woman: saving for our child's college fund was getting man: yes it was. so to save some money, we taught our 5 year old how to dunk. woman: scholarship! woman: honey go get him. anncr: there's an easier way to save. get online. go to geico.com. get a quote. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance. will be giving away passafree copies of the alcoholism & addiction cure. to get yours, go to ssagesmalibubook.com. take off your bedroom slippers, put on your marching shoes. shake it off. stop complaining. stop grumbling. stop crying. we are going to press on. we've got work to do. >> president obama speaking to the congressional black caucus on saturday, key constituency if he's going to get re-elected. twitter has exploded with this interview tonight. i would say at the moment 2-1, two-thirds saying you're a genius and the third saying you're a dangerous half wit. do you concede to other? >> i plead guilty to the dangerous part maybe. but the half wit, i leave that up to the nuns that i had in school. >> this is your book "here comes trouble." and you are trouble. and where trouble is there's division of opinion. you must be one of the most divisive people in the country. >> divisive? you know, we live in a democracy. you should stand for something. you should stand up for what you believe in. that's a good thing. i never understand this oh, we need more bipartisan or nonpartisan. partisan is actually good. that's what's good about democracy. >> let me ask you this. do you have any views that you think are genuinely surprising to people who think you're a predictable kneejerk liberal. >> i could tell you things that i agree with consevatives on. not the new conservatives. not that stuff. but the -- >> we'll come to that. >> the old school conservatives who believe you shouldn't spend money you don't have. you should conserve your money. you should conserve the air and the water. these are gifts from god, this planet, you know, to be behaving like this. i believe very much in those things. i believe that, you know -- >> the tea party, for example. >> yeah. >> i'm sure we'll come to your views in a moment. but in terms of their actual policies, it's hard to argue with some of what they say. do you have a blanket distrust and hatred of all things tea party or can you recognize that some things they say are completely reasonable and that's why they gather support? >> at the very beginning there might have been some people who were trying to join the party to say some reasonable things because they were upset at wall street and what was happening, but these days, the tea party is a wing of the republican party thinking, it's funded by billionaires. so no, it's a very different animal now. you know, i don't -- here's a question -- i'll save this for wolf blitzer. but i don't understand why cnn would join up with the tea party express to sponsor a debate. can you imagine a cnn michael moore debate? i mean, like i'm -- >> yes, i do. >> do you think cnn would do that? >> i don't know. i would have a debate with you tomorrow. the whole hour, an audience. >> let the nurses or the teachers unions partner up with cnn and sponsor the next debate. >> i don't really buy that. i don't think you can argue the tea party have become an incredibly important political party element of what will be the next election campaign. >> sure. >> you can't ignore that. >> no, but i would submit to you there are more teachers and nurses than there are members of the tea party. >> they aren't going to run the country. >> they better or we're in trouble. >> obama looked to me over the weekend when he made that speech, that speech put on your marching shoe, it looked to me like a guy, who finally went, i'm fed up with this. i'm going to get angry. >> he should be mad at himself first. this is a quarterback who pisses away the first three quarter, then in the fourth quarter decides to show up and start playing football. >> why has he pissed it away? >> i don't know. i don't know the game plan that was in his head, the people advising him. for the first two years they had both houses. why they allowed that opportunity to go by and now all of a sudden now we're going to charge forward, great, then you're going to find most people on board with you. but geez, you took an awfully long time. >> i found this summer incomprehensible. i couldn't understand why he would allow the perception to be the republicans are running the show and allow john boehner who run rings around him. >> i always thought he was his own man. clearly in "the new york times" showed in their polling that with all his drift to the center and to the right, he hasn't picked up a single republican vote out there in america. he's lost a good chunk of the independents and even some of the democrats. it was a foolhardy mistake to head toward the center and the right when the majority of the country is actually quite liberal on the issues, even though most people wouldn't call themselves liberals. most americans want strong environmental laws, they believe in equal rights for women. 55% think that gay marriage should be the law of the land. except for the death penalty. >> who to you was the least worrying republican candidate? >> there's only one, there's only one that has sanity operating inside of him and i mean, that's jon huntsman. i mean, when they asked who here believes in science, and he's was the only one to raise his hands. all those in favor of math, home ec, wood shop, wood shop! you know. >> i found huntsman very impressive when i interviewed him he speaks chinese. he understands what that's all about. >> a mormon and a governor of utah and he got a civil union law passed that's not passed in many states that are not utah. >> why is he not getting the traction -- >> he believes in global warming. why isn't he getting the traction? >> yes. >> because he's smart and he actually might win. if the republican party and t