>> this is "piers morgan tonight." last time ricky gervais was here, he had just mortally offended pretty much every big star in hollywood at the golden globes last year. by a wonderful coincidence, he's back again, just after offending just about every major star in hollywood at the golden globes. welcome back, ricky, and congratulations on behalf of everybody in britain. >> they took it better this time. >> they did take it better. >> they've had a year to get used to it. the first time they went, why is he saying all these awful things. then the second time, they thought, oh, they're jokes. >> is that better? >> i didn't want them to take it bad, and i don't think i said anything that bad the first time. and they are jokes. i'd rather entertain and people gasp -- i cherish the gasps. they're just as good. >> not everybody seemed to enjoy your jokes as much as others. i mean, sir elton didn't seem massively enthusiastic. >> yeah, yeah, he had a grumpy look on his face. but i don't know. at least he can still, you know, use expressions. most of them are too botoxed up. you don't know if they're smiling or not. but, i made a decision both years to -- you don't pander to the people in the room, there's too many people watching at home. so you want everyone to enjoy it, but it's not a spectator sport, an award show, and i try to make it one. but it was my favorite one. it was my favorite one. i really, really enjoyed it. i thought they were a lot lighter and cooler about -- >> i tweeted on the night, i have a picture of how joyous you would have felt the moment you ferris heard that jodie foster and mel gibson were making a movie called "the beaver." >> too easy, isn't it? >> it's what's called a home run, isn't it? knocking it out of the park. >> i think you are single handedly changing the way all americans feel about award ceremonies. when i first came out here, they were the most sickening, back-slapping events imaginable. four, five hours of people telling each other how wonderful they are. you have bricked that balloon so spectacularly, i don't think anyone of them can go back to that anymore. that's why you're this national treasure. >> well, i think it's fine if they want a mutual back-slapping session, but don't televise it. because there's nothing in it for people at home. i have nothing against those people. i work with a lot of them, i admire a lot of them. and also, it was gentle ribbing. this wasn't me going out there trying to undermine the moral fabric of america. they were gags. and it shows how badly the so-called offended stars took it. johnny depp in the new series, they were cool about it. i think the same as everything, okay? it's always people offended on someone else's behalf. you talk to the person, they go, i was fine about it. >> do you have a moral code yourself? >> of course i do. >> how would you define it? >> well, you can't, because it's not from a set menu, you know? unlike religion, i don't have a set menu. you take instance -- >> how do you test it for yourself? what's your litmus test? >> well, you can't. i have to sleep at night. that's the only way i can do it. and this is the thing about offense, okay, it's not right or wrong, it's about feelings. and feelings are personal. so i'll give you an example. i did a stand-up tour here and i make jokes, ironically, if i come down on the wrong side about third world famine, cancer, the holocaust, aids. these are subjects, and this is the problem with the interview, some people, when they hear any taboo subject, they mistake the target of a joke with the subject of a joke. and they don't have to be the same. you can make a joke about race without being racist. and the reason i don't like actual racist jokes is not because they're offensive, because they're not funny, because they're based on a falsehood. so there has to be truth and honesty in comedy. and people think, oh, he's talking about a subject, it's terrible. and i did this gig with all those subjects, and i got a letter from someone saying, i enjoyed the gig, i enjoyed it, we were laughing all the way through, except we didn't appreciate the jokes about the holocaust. so they knew the jokes were a joke, they knew jokes about cancer were jokes, but that was too much for them. that's the problem with personal feelings. >> but are there some things -- >> you can't be objective. >> but some people would say that things like the holocaust should never be the subject of humor. >> it depends what the joke is. it's as simple as that. you can tell a right-on joke about the holocaust like you can tell a right-on joke about anything. it depends -- it comes from a good or a bad place. and you have to know what you're doing. and i like walking that tightrope and i like the gasps coming first and then people realizing that it's okay. no bad, no bad at all can come from discussing taboo subjects. it's where it comes from and how it's discussed and, you know, and i think that i've always done a -- and things like i'm in "the office," it was clear, because it was a character. when david brent went over, and the only black guy, and said, i love sidney portier, people knew he was uncomfortable with difference as opposed to being racist. when garif was talking about the woman in the wheelchair, talking about there should be tests, they know that we're laughing at his attitudes. but when it's under your own name, they get confused. do they think, does he mean that? clever people know. they know there's irony. they know where the satire is. and you can't legislate against stupidity. the more you dumb it down, you lose the satire. >> i get it. >> so i don't apologize for people not getting it. if anyone gets it, it's gettable. and there's always -- as i said, there's always going to be someone that's offended by what you say. many people are offended because you exist, particularly you. again, i've read the forums. but what we meant to do. >> for a very long time, you would never have imagined being in hollywood. and now you are a bona fide superstar who comes to hollywood, does movies, and so on and so on. what is the reality of hollywood excess? >> well, i don't know about that. you know, i'm in my pajamas by 6:00 after i've worked out. and -- >> how does it come to this? >> i like a glass of wine. but i don't really mix in those circles. the people i know in hollywood are usually sort of writers and directors and show runners and producers. you know, i'm not -- i came to this business when i was nearly 40, you know? i'm 50 now. i'm -- >> is that the trick? is it to not be famous too early? >> well, i think so. and that wasn't intentional. either way, i didn't hold back saying, hold it, i'm going to be famous when i'm 38. hold on. and i was never trying to be famous. and i feared it. >> is it a lot easier, is my point, to be older and become famous? >> i think so, yeah. because i think it was oprah who said, if you don't know who you are by the time you become famous, it will define you. and i think, you know, these things, these things don't -- i mean, i'm in it for the work. i love the work. you know, everyone knows that we get paid very well. you know, nice reviews are good. awards are great. but it's the work. it's the i can't believe my luck, i get up in in the morning, i have an idea, and i can start writing that idea and it will get made, at moment. >> what i can't believe is the way you look, because we all fell in love back in britain with fat, chubby ricky. >> i wasn't that fat. >> you were pretty fat. and you drank a lot of beer. >> you didn't tell me then, huh. people come up and say, you look fantastic. you just meant i looked terrible before. you should have it then, i would have worked out faster. i keep throwing these trousers away. >> you were the beer and fish eating bigger guy. >> i still do that. >> how much weight have you lost? >> not much at all. i think about 25 pounds. >> that's quite a lot. >> i've done it by working out. i still eat too much, i still drink too much, but the next day i punish myself in the gym. i work out like rocky, and i feel great. >> even your teeth look gleaming. >> i haven't had them done. >> anything to them? a little bit of hollywood smiling -- >> i got things in the luxury lounge once, those -- i thought they made me gag. >> what made you -- >> but i brush them. suddenly i'm fat and disgusting who didn't clean my teeth. i had a few pounds, yeah. and the beard helps. i wear black. >> what made you go on this vanity kick? >> it wasn't a vanity kick. it was a health kick. the truth was, it was christmas, i was 48, a couple of christmases ago, and i had eleven sausages, and i sat there feeling ill. the number of times i said, jane, i'm having a heart attack. i'm having a heart attack. and i thought, you know what, life is good, and i don't want to blow it. i don't want to go, hold on, just -- >> by the way, it wasn't just me, because this dashing feature in "men's health" magazine, the feature we never thought we'd see of you, this immaculate kickboxing gervais, "how ricky gervais lost it," he went from chubby loser to comedic. his next act, losing the gut and gaining respect. >> that's good, isn't it? i'm glad i lived this long to get to comedic otour. >> where would you be without that? >> it would be the death of a fat, chubby loser who never cleans his teeth and stinks. ricky gervais died today at the age of 48 through sausages. death by sausage. that's a prison term. what, cut that. >> do you get more groupies now? >> i don't -- never got groupies. >> really? >> no, i've been with my girlfriend for 30 years. >> that doesn't stop groupies. >> the one who i say, i'm having a heart attack, jane. >> does she prefer you as a svelte comedic otour or a chubby loser. >> i think she loved me for both. when she met me, i wasn't a chubby loser. i was about ten stones. and i also used to do judo, karate, every day, and then i hit 30 and got a job and went to the bar afterwards. i got heavier and heavier. i'd say through my 30s and 40s, until you go, when did that happen? because i used to -- you think, that'll never happen to me -- >> it's absolutely true. >> and it does. it's so easy. but it's easy to lose it as well. i found it remarkably -- i haven't gave anything up. i can't diet. i can't give up my cheese and wine. but i can, luckily, because i'm self-employed, and i've got my own gym, i've got no excuse. i've got no excuse. i hear you've got a trainer as well. your producers tell me. >> yeah, yeah. he doesn't let me advertise it yet, because he doesn't think i'm good for his brand. let's take a break and come back and talk about twitter. because you love twitter as much as i do. >> yeah. >> and like your work. >> thank you. this is delicious okay... is this where we're at now? 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[ male announcer ] you do, business pro. you do. go national. go like a pro. the funniest show in the history of television. i love this show. >> i wouldn't call it the funniest show in the history of television. >> this show was hilarious. >> don't talk about the funniest show. history of television? >> "seinfeld" was a lovely show. >> it was good. >> i will treasure this, ricky. >> i've got the laugh track it on it too. we didn't do one. >> ricky gervais on the hit hbo show "curb your enthusiasm." a classic, classic -- >> i love my career. i've been very lucky with the things i've been asked to do from "the simpsons" -- but that was an absolute joy. and it made me realize why people come and do extras and life's too short with me. because when you apply a twisted version of yourself, you suddenly find out that the worse you make yourself, people go, well, he can't be that bad. so you really go for it. to make it obvious. >> let's talk about twitter. because you came late to the game. later than me. but you've become equally obsessive. you love twitter. why do you like it so much? >> i like it for lots of reasons, because it's the whole of humanity in your pocket. there's the best and worst of the world on twitter. there are some brilliant people out there and there are some people that shouldn't be allowed sharp objects, okay? and i treasure them both. >> talking of sharp objects, you tweeted this picture of yourself to say, on my what to piers morgan at cnn, i think i'll fit in well. what were you getting at? >> as a comedian -- >> what were you getting out? you'd fit in well lacking like that? >> i thought i looked intellectual there, and cnn is obviously the home of intellectuals. so i was hoping that i'd have a go. but, yeah -- >> you get really intense on twitter. you get into proper battles with people. >> yeah. >> why do you take it so personal? >> but at home i'm smiling. when someone's arguing with me, 5,000 years old, yes, i'm smiling. of course i'm smiling. the fundamentalist view of the creation of the earth is rather like an episode of "the flintstones." so i have to laugh at those sort of things. >> how does your atheism, which you're passionate about, how does that play with your american audience, given that so many people in america are god-fearing people and probably take exception to it. >> well, but they shouldn't. we talked about this last time. why should they take offense that i don't believe in their god or any other god? and i say to them, you know, tell me the reasons why you don't believe in all the other god's? and that's the reason i don't believe in yours. and i've got nothing against people believing in god. in fact, if it, you know, did make you a kinder person, if you do good things in his name, then, great. but there's the rub. it's when i see some of these religious fundamentalists saying that they've told their 5-year-old children that if they turn out gay, they will burn in hell. that to me is child abuse. that's nothing to do with religion or spirituality. that's child abuse. so that's why i'm passionate when it comes to that. >> what do you think of the republican nomination race, given that some of the candidates clearly position themselves quite deliberately to say, anti-gay marriage, all that kind of thing, based on their religious beliefs? >> well, we're back to offense, aren't they? just because they're offended by someone being gay, doesn't mean they're right. it's this strange thing, that being gay is a choice. being gay isn't a choice. i want to go, you try it, then. if it's a choice, have a go. see how much you like it. >> someone who's come to america and been the personification of the classic old america dream of, you know, they take anybody from anywhere, and anyone can make it big here. they don't really care what else -- >> i came fat with terrible teeth -- >> you were the chubby loser. and now look at you. >> your huddled masses. look at him. he's huddled. but america is fantastic. it is the land of opportunity. and there's, you know, bits of both cultures that i love and hate and the wonderful thing about being between england and america, they are both the land of freedom. and criticize them all you want, but know that you're in a place that allows you to criticize it. and that's lucky. you know? and that's great. and that should be cherished. and freedom of speech for me is one of the most important things that, you know, discovered. and i would fight for the right of it. and even though i don't believe in god and i don't believe, you know, unlike most religions, i treat all religions the same. i think they're all wrong -- not morally wrong, but i don't think there is a god. but if someone said, we're banning religion, i'd march to not have it banned. because it's your right to believe what you want. and it's your right to be wrong. and i'll fight for that right. >> let's take another break and come back, and i want to play you what steve carell said about you. >> can i have it cut? can i have it censored if i don't like it? i'm that powerful. >> he had strong views. 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[ male announcer ] progresso. 40 soups 100 calories or less. i'm piers morgan, and do be fooled by my british accent, because it's all i've got. tonight, we examine the controversy surrounding this year's super bowl halftime show. joining me first is the woman at the center of that controversy, m.i.a. >> bam, bam! >> that was my eagerly awaited debut on "saturday night live." ricky, i don't know about you, but i thought that accent was shocking. >> i'm glad he said what he was doing. that was the test, isn't it? >> everyone says to me, well done, mate, badge of honor that you've been humiliated on america's number one comedy show. >> it's very flattering, and i think you're probably fine, because we're british, we might see the differences, but to america, that probably does sound pretty spot-on. >> yeah, going, wit, wit, wit, wit. >> just do that now. >> we don't do that. do i do that? >> i don't think so. at least, you know, at least he took the mickey out of things that aren't that bad. >> should we play what steve carell said about you? >> yes, please. >> i enjoy the idea that you're slightly uncomfortable. >> he's a lovely man. he wouldn't say anything bad about me. >> could you do what ricky does? >> oh, not in a million years. >> why? >> i think i would just get too skittish. >> but you could play a ricky gervais character. >> perhaps. but to actually go in front of people -- >> and offend them to their faces. >> i don't think that i necessarily -- the it doesn't mean i'm a better person, it just means i don't have that kind of guts. it's funny, he always makes fun of me. always. and he's also, in a personal way, very sweet to me. before one of these award shows, he pulled me aside and he said, hey, i've got a few things i wanted to go after with you, is that okay? and i'm like, of course. so there is a ge