the pizza vending machine. this is "piers morgan tonight." the former penn state defensive coordinator is accused of sexually abusing ten boys over the span of 15 years. today, one of those boys victim number six told his story. a story that triggered a police investigation. he told his mother about an incident when he was 11 years old. he said he only told her bits and pieces. not about everything that happened. his mother called police. this is the attorney for the young man victim number six. it was very difficult to listen to. i suppose what was striking about it was that despite the abuse that your client suffered, he said he stayed in touch with sandusky over the years. sent him holiday greetings. saying you're great, you're awesome and so on. why would he have done that? how do you explain that with a jury sitting there, maybe quiz call about why your client would do that? >> let me say this. if the jurors are hearing that, the other young men who were abused as children testify as well, and that story is pretty uniform as between them. there's a reason behind that. because these kids, now young men, to the extend they're able to do it, create a bit of a chinese wall in their mind. they bury these events that were so painful tore them deep in their subconscious. they try to move beyond that. there's a chinese wall that's created. and in reality, when you're dealing with someone who is -- as sandusky is being portrayed to be, a serial child abuser, you're talking about somebody who is successful at it because they're successful at manipulating people. they're not only successful at manipulating the children, they were successful at manipulating the parents who allowed continuing contact to take place. >> there is a growing pattern that's been emerging day by day, very similar stories, very similar grooming process. classic, many would say, pedophile behavior. i thought probably the most significant moment today came when the police investigated, testified, that he heard sandusky tell your client's mother, i wish i could ask forgiveness. i know i can't get it from you. i wish i were dead. he said he felt charges should have been filed against him at the time. why were no charges filed after such an astonishing statement to a mother of a victim? why do you think nothing happened? >> well, it's the $64,000 question. and when one looks at the circumstances that were known to the police and the police themselves who did the on the ground investigations, concluded that charges should have been filed and they weren't, the question certainly is why weren't they. were they not pursued because of who the perpetrator was, because it was jerry sandusky? were they not pursued because penn state had some influence in connection with that? i don't know that we're ever going to know the answer to that. because the prosecutor who made the official decision apparently no longer is on this earth for us to question about that. frankly, even though that was the official discussion that was made, i'm far from convinced that's what he really believed was the right thing in his heart. you get some sense about the legit mae legitimacy of decisions. they decided to ignore other information that essentially cried out for further investigation. sandusky specifically admitted when questioned by the officer about his behavior he had showered with other children before. and now he's expressing remorse for having done that. recognizing his wrong. saying i wish i were dead. yet he acknowledged he's done it with other children and they're not conducting a further investigation to find out some of the details about that. that's another compelling question. >> as the father of three boys myself, when i read some of the trap script of your client's evidence, particularly this line, it really got to me this. made me very angry. i didn't want to get him into trouble. i still wanted to hang out with him and go to the games. he told me he had a computer. i could sit on his lap and play with the computer. i still wanted to do that. i mean this is just sickening grooming at its most cynical and precise, isn't it? this is somebody who knows exactly what he's doing grooming these young boys for sexual abuse. >> well, what's also clear is that this young man not only talked to police right after this incident, he spoke to a psychologist. he told the psychologist basically the same thing that he told the jury here today. basically the same thing he said before the grand jury, about what transpired in the shower and the activity that happened on the drive over. and it's -- and it's just amazing that an opportunity was lost here. and this psychologist who interviewed this young man reached the conclusion back at that time and generated a report to this effect that in her opinion, based on the information she had, jerry sandusky exhibited the conduct that is consistent with what you would expect of a pedophile. >> i have to obviously say -- >> again, compelling evidence. and no evidence. >> i have to say jerry sandusky remains innocent until proven guilty. the evidence is certainly mounting up in a pretty grotesque manner. thank you very much for joining me. >> you're very welcome. >> now, more of my big stories. alan dershowitz. and dr. janet taylor, a psychiatrist. let me start with you, janet taylor. because i can see you reacting to what you were hearing there. what is your assessment of what's been going on this week in court? >> well, you know, i'm so thankful these survivors came forward because maybe we can put an end to the notion that a, boys don't get sexually a becaused, or we can't get enough evidence to get what i think frankly is a monster who has groomed, who used his power of authority to take advantage of these victims. so i think we're hearing the stories as we need to, they're horrible, that maybe we will listen to our children, notice what's going on with them and bring people like this to justice. >> one of the bizarre aspects of this is that the state that is putting this on is the only state in america that doesn't allow expert testimony. which i just find absolutely baffling. why would they not allow it? what difference does that make to a jury's ability to comprehend perhaps some of what is going on and what they're hearing? >> this is going to sound strange but i think the best gift the prosecution has is that they can't put on expert testimony. jurors are very skeptical of expert testimony in cases like this. they think of concepts like grooming and looking at consistent patterns and trying to figure out whether a person is guilty because he fits a diagnostic category. the prosecution doesn't need that in this case. the prosecution has a triangular case. they have the eyewitnesss who seem credible. they seem to have all done well under cross examination. they have people who are corroborating that. they have a kind of admission almost by the defendant. i wish i were dead. they don't need an expert to come in, kind of insult them and tell them, oh, by the way, if you don't understand this, let me explain to you, this is the way pedophiles operate. they're much better off in a case like this making it factual and specific and not relying on expert testimony, which is often looked at suspiciously. >> i think if you're in that jury, you're hearing day by day, worst accounts. today, victim number nine gave probably the most serious i thought account of really serious sexual attacks that he was receiving from san dusky. this goes way beyond showering with boys. >> no question about that. i'm frankly very glad i'm not the defense attorney in this case. the defense attorneys are going to be spending a very difficult weekend trying to decide which is the most difficult decision a defense attorney ever faces. do you put on a defense? do you put the defendant on? i think the only conceivable defense that could work in a case like this would be not to put the defendant on but to try to get external evidence showing that these young men, these alleged victim, actually got together, talked, compared notes, either themselves or through lawyers, and that what appears to be a pattern, the blowing on the stomach, the showers, all results from a conspiracy among these people or their lawyers to make a strong case. now, i don't for a moment believe that. but that would be the only kind of defense that could work. putting this defendant on the witness stand after the letters he's written, after what he said to bob costas, after what he said to this woman, i just don't think there's any percentage in doing that. >> i totally agree with you. janet taylor, let's talk about these boys. they're adult men obviously. you've experienced a lot of this over the years. what kind of trauma will they be suffering? how traumatic is it to come to a courtroom and relive the abuse they've maybe in some cases hidden from family and friends? >> when you've been abused, physically and also emotionally, abuse of trust, every trauma can be a layer. on the one hand, telling the story can help because they're getting it out and hopefully they can see the defendant brought to justice. also, it is another trauma. listening. there are victims of sexual abuse listening to this trial who are reliving and also experiencing trauma. trauma can be real and susta sustained. >> i can rarely remember this volume of victims giving such coherent, compelling emotional and apparently credible testimony. >> well, let me tell you that there have been such cases. and they've turned out very bad. the case in california, the mcmartin case. where the kids gave consistent testimony and it turned out it was all fake. it was all made up. it was all the fault of experts who came in and kind of fed them the information. there have been another one, the case in massachusetts. there have been case after case. where young people have been brainwashed into giving totally false testimony. about whether appeared to be horrendous, monstrous events. i'm not suggesting this happened here. >> let me bring in -- >> all due respect there are a number of victims who never come forward at all. think we have to be really careful to say just because we come forward and just because there have been cases where maybe it has been fabricated, adults and kids still do not speak enough about abuse and do not bring their abusers to trial. >> i completely agree. >> finally, the crucial thing here, shore of surely, i think, is that we have adult witnesses too who saw what was going on to a certain degree. >> absolutely. >> i think that gives it the real edge of credibility. that if you were prosecuting this, you'd be after. >> absolutely. you have objective witnesses who have no stake in this, who are not advocates for young children. a guy who walks in a shower. he loves sandusky and sees this going on. how do you contradict this testimony? it seems like a slam dunk. you never know. >> thank you both very much. sandusky case is ripping penn state apart and spelled the end of the career of one of the greatest coaches in college sporting history. joe paterno. tomorrow, my interview with the man who knew him well, the man they called coach k, mike krzyzews krzyzewski, the head coach of the duke men's basketball team. >> it's a difficult situation to encounter but you had somebody who's given six decades of service to the university and done such an incredible job. somehow you have to let -- something has to play out and respect the fact you've gone through all these experiences for six decades. doesn't just go out the window. you know, right at the end. i thought it was a real mistake by penn state's leadership. >> more from a quite revealing interview with coach k not just on that but also about his forthcoming olympics where he's hoping to take the american all-stars to gold medal victory. you can hear that tomorrow night. coming up, a man who has strong feelings about the sandusky trial. michael reagan. he was the victim of sexual abuse. ♪ [ acoustic guitar: slow ] [ barks ] ♪ [ upbeat ] [ barks ] beneful playful life is made with energy-packed wholesome grains... and real beef and egg. to help you put more play in your day. but when i was diagnosed with prostate cancer... i needed a coach. our doctor was great, but with so many tough decisions i felt lost. unitedhealthcare offered us a specially trained rn who helped us weigh and understand all our options. for me cancer was as scary as a fastball is to some of these kids. but my coach had hit that pitch before. turning data into useful answers. we're 78,000 people looking out for 70 million americans. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare. >> announcer: this is the day. the day that we say to the world of identity thieves "enough." we're lifelock, and we believe you have the right to live free from the fear of identity theft. our pledge to you? as long as there are identity thieves, we'll be there. we're lifelock. and we offer the most comprehensive identity theft protection ever created. lifelock: relentlessly protecting your identity. call 1-800-lifelock or go to lifelock.com today. i'm just continuously going through my mind, like, was there something i could have done, like, is there something that i missed? like, i knew the kid was upset but he's a part of second mile. second mile is troubled kids. so i'm just thinking the kid is troubled and that's why he's here. >> that was lavar arrington who played at penn state with joe paterno. he saw the boy we know as victim number four at jerry sandusky's second mile charity. michael reagan, a man who knows all too well what it's like to be a victim. he was abused as a child. he's also the son of former president ronald reagan. i'm sure you've been listening to this testimony with a very heavy heart. what do you think these boys who are now men have been going through to have to relive in public what they went through? >> let me tell you, piers, i don't think there's a child out there who hasn't been sexually abused and isn't right now reliving what these young men are, in fact, testifying too and how they're having to relive it as i talk to you tonight. i just have a knot in my stomach. because these stories are so familiar to those of us who in fact have lived these stories with these predators that are out there. and you and i have talked about this before, you know, off air. the fact that, you know, for a year of my life when i was 8 years old i was sexual abused by a day camp counselor. ultimately took me up to the mountain, had me take my clothes off, took photographs of me and had me develop the photographs and said, wouldn't your mother like to have a copy. my life ended that day. absolutely ended. i didn't tell my father i loved him till 1991 is the first time i told my father i in fact, loved him. i didn't tell my wife, my mother, my sister, my father, till 1987 when i wrote my first book. this is something you learn to put in a compartment of your life. but it comes out every once in a while. because it takes everything away from you when an adult does this to you as a child. >> do you think it's conceivable that dottie, jerry's wife, knew nothing about this? >> no, i think she knew. i think she knew what was going on downstairs but she didn't want to believe what she knew going on downstairs. too many wives are protecting too many husbands in the world that we live in today. and, you know, just to -- this is going to scare the hell out of you, but this is absolutely true. a predator, a sexual abuser of children, will abuse in their lifetimes an average of 117 children. and 60% of those children will go on to abuse themselves. when my abuser died, i got a letter from his sister-in-law. he said, when don died, he was as evil as the day he died as the day he sexually abused you. the days he sexually abused you. you can finally rest assured those photographs have been destroyed. those photographs were taken, piers, in 1953. i have never forgotten those photographs, ever. they weren't destroyed till seven years ago. i lived with that while my dad ran for president of the united states of america. >> yeah, it's -- it's obvious from the way you're reacting even now, to me, what these boys, who are now men, about what happened to them, the scars of what went on at the hands of jerry san dusky are going to be very deep, very painful and possibly life scarring. >> they are. thank god for my wife. who taught me truly how to love again. because i didn't know how to love. till she came to my life in 1973. i still didn't even tell her till 1987. i didn't tell my father till the occasion of my daughter ashley's birthday at the ranch in 1987. >> how did he react? >> my dad, i was literally -- everything out of my body was coming up on his boots. and my dad said -- he actually said, will, where is he, i'll kick his butt. and these people, as they get older, don't get better. people trust them even more. and children are put absolutely in harm's way. these people, they're predators after children who are looking for -- to be accepted. remember, i came from a divorced family. my abuser taught me how to throw a football. taught me how to yo-yo. taught me how to do those things. he endeared himself to me. from that point, it just went absolutely the nth degree. that night that he took me to his apartment and moved my hand from one piece -- from one pan to a second pan to a third pan. and what came up was a naked picture of me. he said, wouldn't your mother like to have a copy? i walked away from god, i walked away from everybody. i was so unsure of my own sexuallity. when i was 16 years of age and not sure what people would see me as heterosexual, homosexual, i would steal money from my father's wallet and go to downtown l.a. and buy prostitutes on friday and saturday night because i had to prove to myself i was heterosexual and i was a man. i did not know and i was afraid to ask. >> it takes astonishing courage. it's fascinating to me and very moving that you still get so emotional reliving this. it just shows me what these victims of jerry sandusky have been going through. and how traumatic it must be for them to have to take the stand and give evidence. i really appreciate you being so candid today. you've given a really intriguing insight into the mind-set of a victim in this kind of case. >> may i just say something, if anybody out there is going through or lived through what i went through and these kids lived through and so many do, 1-800-4-a-child. call, get help. >> michael, thank you very much indeed. >> thank you. >> coming up, he was a member of the kennedy clan. sergeant shriver. 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