tragic super star. i'll ask her father, mitch, about living without amy. this is "piers morgan tonight." good evening. tonight's big story, blaming ann curry. she may be just days away now from losing her job. tonight the hollywood reporter says she'll be replaced by savannah guthrie. it comes as "today" is losing ground to its rival "good morning america." my next guest has been in a similar position. deborah norville replaced an anchor on "today." which, by the way, is covering the drama. deborah, nobody probably on earth knows more about what ann curry is going through than you. what are your feelings? >> i think personally what ann's probably going through is she is determined to show up for work every day, do the great job she always has been. i suspect she is reminding herself of the things they're not saying. they're saying she wasn't comfortable to the viewers on the air. well, what is she going to do about that? nobody said i did a lousy job. i won an emmy when i was on the "today" show. my problem is i was younger and blonder than my predecessor. a lot of the harping is just that. what happens when you are a high profile figure. is it going to be enough to force her to go into another position? but it doesn't mean the end of her career. i think that's the important thing she personally should recognize. she's got a great future ahead of her. this is maybe a pothole in the road of her career. >> very strange kind of scenario. it wasn't like she was poached from somewhere else and parachuted into the "today" show. it's a strange scenario, isn't it, deborah? i co-hosted the fourth hour for a couple of weeks with hoda. she couldn't have been more kind, generous, selfless. incredibly hard working. i watched her report. she's a great journalist. everyone there loves her. meredith vieira left and she went in and you just assumed it would work. because why wouldn't it? what do you think has gone wrong for her? >> i don't think you can lay the blame squarely on ann's shoulders. i think there's a big shift going on in television. if you look at the measurement we have that's valid and that is the ratings of morning television, the "today" show a couple years ago had 1.24 million viewers in the first quarter of the year in a certain demographic. that's dropped dramatically. dvd has come in. "good morning america" has made some changes. cbs news has revamped their show. there are good alteratives on cable at the same time of day. just because they've selected that option, does that mean they've consciously said we don't want to watch ann? i think the answer, in all fairness, to ann and to everyone who works in television is no. it wasn't that they ran from ann but they saw other things they wanted to sample. >> what most people are saying is the chemistry between her and the co-anchor, matt lauer, who signed a huge new deal there, just didn't quite work -- >> that chemistry thing is interesting, piers, because you're absolutely right. you can't predict what's going to happen in the science experiment of putting two people next to one another. one of the things that's interesting about television, as a medium itself, it's a cool medium. and ann is a very elegant and a very thoughtful person. which, you know, she's not like this on the air. it may be that her naturally thoughtful and probing demeanor coupled with the cool medium of television made for a situation where she didn't appear to be comfortable when, in fact, she's dang good at what she does. and i know she felt as comfortable sitting next to matt on the desk as she did sitting on the floor cross legged doing a puzzle at home. >> matt was interviewed by donny deutsch who was standing in for me. let's just watch. >> the biggest heart in broadcasting. incredibly talented. but, again, feels, cares, is concerned about other people more than anyone i've met. >> kind of what everyone says about ann curry. the reason i think it's more than just an industry issue is the "today" show is a bit like "the tonight show" in the morning, isn't it? and these stars, matt lauer, meredith vieira. you when you did it. >> right. >> you become, for the period that you're sitting there, part of millions of americans lives >> and -- >> they don't want to be threatened by too much change. the key question i have for you, deborah, is this, do you think it was sexist that ann was singled out for the difficulty in that relationship with matt? would it have been fairer to say, as he has said, look, it may be my fault? >> he's not losing his job so i don't think anybody would agree with him when he says that. you had a similar situation. here you had three guys about whom a lot of reporting was done. you know, the tug-of-war going no, but it's a much better story. what's the one scene you can remember when i say "dynasty"? it's alexis and crystal fighting in the fountain. that kind of story line really goes over very well. what it's legitimate or not, it sells. it does sell newspapers. and it does sell magazines. >> ann curry herself gave an interview to "ladies home journal" and said this. it's hard not to take the criticism personally. when people say negative things or speculate, you can't help but feel hurt. i think about the people who watch. i want to feel i haven't dropped the ball when it comes to them. it's really about the viewer. clearly, the viewers, for whatever reason, have been voting with their feet. they've been migrating away from the "today" show -- >> piers, let me correct you, not in huge numbers. i think they're shifting away. are they going to shift back? i don't think you can say there's been a stampede away from the "today" show. she speaks to anyone who has ever felt like they've been marginalized in their job. somehow things beyond their control were impacting their ability to make a difference. because i was there. you're good at what you do. the smarts that you've got aren't going to go away. take a moment to think about what it is that made you passionate about the career that you still have. grab it with both hands. you will have many more exciting adventures in your future that will far outnumber the great experiences you've had in your past up to this moment on the "today" show. >> one last question. her likely replacement is savannah guthrie who's been anchoring the 9:00 hour. is she the answer, do you think, to whatever problems? >> i think -- whatever problems, that's the trouble. who knows what the answer is? i think savannah's a tremendous journalist. she's delightful. she clearly is someone that the rest of the staff likes very much. it's not a question of do your teammates like you. it's how does it work when you put it all together and you make this stew called morning television. it remains to be seen. i think all of us thought that ann was going to be a great hit too. so, you know, my 50 cents is worth probably less than that. but she'll be tremendous. there's great things coming ahead for her. the morning show will be there. whoever is sitting there will be anchoring it. viewers will come. viewers will watch. they will come back and sample again. >> deborah norville, thank you very much indeed for joining me. >> my pleasure. hollywood writer and director nora efron has died today at age 71. "sleepless in seattle." "when harry met sally." here's a quintessential nora efron moment. starring billy crystal and meg ryan. >> i love that you get cold when it's 79 degrees out. i love that you get a little crinkle above your nose when you're looking at me like i'm nuts. and i love that you are the last person i want to talk to before i go to sleep at night. and it's not because i'm lonely and it's not because it's new year's eve. i came here tonight because when you realize you want to spend the rest of your life with somebody, you want the rest of your life to start as soon as possible. >> you see. that is just like you, harry. you say things like that and you make it impossible for me to hate you. >> nora efron also wrote several best-sellers including "heartburn." she was suffering from cancer. a sad day for anyone who likes great writing and great movies. coming up next, new revelations about the man who killed trayvon martin. his attorney is here exclusively. only in america, a health care plan we can all support. a doctor who charges every patient exactly $5. what's with you? trouble with a car insurance claim. 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[ normal voice ] so i can trust 'em. unlike randy. are you in good hands? unlike randy. ♪ hello...rings ♪ what the... what the... what the... ♪ ♪ are you seein' this? ♪ uh-huh... uh-huh... uh-huh... ♪ ♪ it kinda makes me miss the days when we ♪ ♪ used to rock the microphone ♪ back when our credit score couldn't get us a micro-loan ♪ ♪ so light it up! ♪ even better than we did before ♪ ♪ yeah prep yourself america we're back for more ♪ ♪ our look is slacker chic and our sound is hardcore ♪ ♪ and we're here to drop a rhyme about free-credit-score ♪ ♪ i'm singing free-credit-score-dot-com ♪ ♪ dot-com narrator: offer applies with enrollment in freecreditscore.com. -- back of his head, butterfly -- >> this is new video, george zimmerman, the day after he shot trayvon martin. right now, want to bring in george zimmerman's attorney, mark o'meara. the significance of this video is what as far as you're concerned? >> well, again, it's part of getting out all the discovery that we have to the public and just get it out there so we can all review it. last four minutes that are now being viewed by a lot of people just show george identifying his injuies on video. >> do you believe that the video proves that he had injuries consistent with a life or death battle? >> well, that's truly going to be a decision to be made by the judge or by the jury when they look at this case. because the whole issue is whether or not he had reasonable fear of great bodily injury. certainly those videos speak for themselves as far as the extent of injuries, but that will be up to the fact finder. >> there has been a whole load of other material. including the unredacted report requesting an arrest warrant for lead investigator chris who has been a significant part of this. i want to go through these carefully with you. in the request for an arrest warrant, he says this, investigative findings show that george michael zimmerman had at least two opportunities to speak with trayvon benjamin martin. on at least two occasion, george zimmerman failed to introduce himself. the clear implication being that if he had done, the about being threatened. do you accept that? >> well, i understand his position. i respect it as the law enforcement officer who was involved and has his own opinion concerning it. like any monday morning quarterbacking, we can look back and see a dozen different ways this could have turned out differently. of course, we can go back in time, if he wasn't going to target. the fact finders need to look at this case upon what did ha >> just little bruising there. the >> the reason that is important i think, mark o'meara, is this lead investigator, chris sirino, and we'll come to what happened to him in a moment, because that in itself is fascinating. one, his actions, george zimmerman's, are inconsistent with those a person who has stated he was in fear of another subject. investigative findings show the physical injuries displayed by george zimmerman are, quote, marginally consistent with a life threatening violent episode as described by him. suppose that the first one i would say is a negative for you and your defense. the second one you could argue marginally consistent, means that it's going to be a debatable subject. it is open to conjecture, isn't it? in other words, these wounds could or could not show that he was in a life or death battle. >> sure, i don't want to get into a battle with investigator sirino's report. his suggestion that it's marginally consistent, again, is up for review. will also make that determination, whether or not those injuries give rise to a reasonable belief in george's mind that he was a victim of great bodily injury or potential death and his reaction to it. >> this lead investigator, chris sirino, wanted to charge your client with manslaughter. and he's expected to be a witness in the trial. later, after this batch of info is released, sanford police department announced he had voluntarily been reassigned to the patrol division. what do you make of what is >> just little bruising there. there's a cut here. >> the swelling went down. >> my wife is an rn student so she went to work. >> the reason that is important i think, mark o'meara, is this lead investigator, chris sirino, and we'll come to what happened to him in a moment, because that in itself is fascinating. one, his actions, george zimmerman's, are inconsistent with those a person who has stated he was in fear of another subject. investigative findings show the physical injuries displayed by george zimmerman are, quote, marginally consistent with a life threatening violent episode as described by him. suppose that the first one i would say is a negative for you and your defense. the second one you could argue marginally consistent, means that it's going to be a debatable subject. it is open to conjecture, isn't it? in other words, these wounds could or could not show that he was in a life or death battle. >> sure, i don't want to get into a battle with investigator sirino's report. his suggestion that it's marginally consistent, again, is up for review. will also make that determination, whether or not those injuries give rise to a reasonable belief in george's mind that he was a victim of great bodily injury or potential death and his reaction to it. >> this lead investigator, chris sirino, wanted to charge your client with manslaughter. and he's expected to be a witness in the trial. later, after this batch of info is released, sanford police department announced he had voluntarily been reassigned to the patrol division. what do you make of what is going on here with this guy? because clearly he's significant. clearly he's probably going to be a key witness here. what has been happening to him behind the scenes? >> i would have to be -- it would be pure conjecture on my part. i've tried not to do this throughout the case. he's going to be best witness to ask why he's not there any longer what decision he made if it was in fact voluntary or a fallout from this case. i truly don't have much insight on that and would rather save that for a courtroom anyway. >> do you feel instinctively, when you herd it was a murder charge, did you feel the real debate, or to be over a manslaughter charge, that whatever it was, it wasn't murder? >> well, think i shared with you, i was the nonlawyer in this case, before i got involved in it. having had a lot of second degree murder cases, i was curious to see where evidence of >> i would have to be -- it would be pure conjecture on my part. i've tried not to do this throughout the case. he's going to be best witness to ask why he's not there any longer what decision he made if it was in fact voluntary or a fallout from this case. i truly don't have much insight on that and would rather save that for a courtroom anyway. >> do you feel instinctively, when you herd it was a murder charge, did you feel the real debate, or to be over a manslaughter charge, that whatever it was, it wasn't murder? >> well, think i shared with you, i was the nonlawyer in this case, before i got involved in it. having had a lot of second degree murder cases, i was curious to see where evidence of second degree would come from. those questions are still there for me and we'll just have to see how the rest of the discovery comes out. >> the next bond hearing is set for friday. do you expect george zimmerman to be granted bond? >> i believe under the law he is entitled to add bond. even though there was a misstep earlier on. i don't believe that rises to the level where it's suggesting there's a flight risk because that's not been proven or suggested. there's been no evidence i don't believe to suggest he is a danger to his community. those are the two primary standards a judge should consider. it is truly my hope judge lester would let him back out on bond so he can continue to assist me in getting ready for trial. >> mark o'mara, thank you very much for joining me, i appreciate it. coming up, amy winehouse's father. talks about what he's doing now to make sure she's never forgotten. 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