0 and he has been on the run. there has been a major manhunt in the southern california from the mountains of san bernardino county to the border of mexico now for six days without much progress. it seemed like the trail had gone cold until about 12:22 this afternoon pacific time. the san bernardino sheriff's office got a call about a car theft. it's not clear yet about whether it was a home -- a burglary or a car theft. anyway, they were told to be on the lookout, that a guy who looked like christopher dorner would be driving. they thought to be driving a white pickup truck. he was spotted by some california fish and wildlife warden. there was a brief exchange of gunfire. he fled into the forest. and then holed up in this cabin that we're now looking at that is being reduced to ashes right now. there was a gunfight with looking for this person. the vastness of los angeles territory, the media involvement, the media savvy of this person we're pursuing here, the police are, talking to charlie sheen, or communicating with him, rather, talking about the various media personalities that he has been watching over the years. trying to get his manifesto out to the public, his grievance against lapd for what he alleges, and i don't know if anyone in the world supports his alleged allegations of racism in the department. of course, it had that reputation decades ago. and of course his grievance says oftentimes you find people who have had problems with the bureaucracy and feel they have never gotten out of it. two police officers have been killed now. two other people have been killed, the daughter and fiance of a police captain. in fact, it was the police captain who was defending him in his case against the department. they're all dead now. a police officer killed just today from the san bernardino deputy sheriff's department. all that going on as we speak. he may be on the loose, john. this story doesn't look like it's coming to the close we thought it would just a half hour ago. >> no. keep going back to what you said at the top of when i first joined you on your show. you compared it to a movie, "high sierra" or "white heat." it has all the elements. that's i think one reason why it has captivated people across the country. here in los angeles, of course, it has been a fact of life, a daily fact of life for six days now, this manhunt, police checks, checkpoints. people getting reports of someone looking like dorner. and so they empty out a store, a hardware store, and they check everybody in the store one by one, asking for their id. and this has been a daily fact of life here. and just captivated everybody. and then sort of dominated the news, dominated the headlines. local stations now have been on the air with this here in los angeles all afternoon. >> watching this. >> it's an l.a. story, certainly. we're going to go to joel rubin, a reporter for "the l.a. time." he has been talking to sources at the scene. thank you for joining us tonight. this is a story that is happening right as we speak. it's very difficult to get the whole picture. your thoughts or what you've been able to report. >> it's very hard to get the whole picture. you're right there. is a lot of contradictory information, or at least a lot of hesitant, unverified information coming in. we're trying to make heads or tails of it all. now it seems to be mostly a waiting game as authorities on the scene, you know, as i'm sure you've seen on tv, the cabin where he is thought to be holed up is largely engulfed in flames. as a matter of safety, authorities aren't going to approach it until they can safely do so. there were some conflicting reports from our sources about whether authorities had actually made entry into the cabin before the flames broke out. i don't think they had. so it's still a waiting game to see what they find inside. >> again, the question of sequence. we've been watching the arrival of armored personnel carriers, at least one. we've been hearing about giant lights being brought up to the scene in an attempt, it looked like to hold an all-night barricade situation and do it safely, where you have men who are being carried in an apc where they can't be shot, but they can stand right there at the scene. and of course putting lights on the scene, you can avoid the suspect from escaping. but all that seems to be gone now. that's all moot now because the cabin is burning. and it's hard to believe that he stayed in there on purpose. you have to wonder whether there wasn't some sort of brilliant distraction play here by the man being pursued here. >> yeah. all along it's been a question of who is christopher dorner. is he a masterful, well-trained disciplined navy sailor and cop who could pull off something like you're proposing, or is he somebody who got in way over his head and had delusions of grandeur about what he was capable of. certainly there are the people out there who think that he is always one step ahead of the authorities. but we're hearing and the story we're following, we're assuming is true is that he is in that cabin, although time will tell to see if that's true. >> and the question is why did he remain. >> yeah, well, again, there were some indications that he may have been injured in the initial gunfire. >> i see. >> there was a rifle seen on the television images, there was a rifle seen on the road outside of the cabin with what looked like to be some blood outside. and there was some speculation amongst police officers that i spoke to that were monitoring the situation that was his and his blood. so they thought he might have been injured before he went into the cabin. >> the story is developing. and this kind of story is such a los angeles story, as i've been saying. tell me about the mood out there in the city. your readership, and why this has been such a grabber, even as it developed in the beginning with this fellow with a grievance against the lapd. he claimed it was a racist situation. that hasn't been backed up by anyone that involved him going on this murder rampage of killing four people now allegedly. and perhaps going to kill more. tell me about the readership you've got whom. you talking to out there? people seem to be rapt in their attention. >> very much so. the lapd holds a pretty -- people are fascinated with the lapd to begin with. there is a sort of base level of interest that runs in the city for the lapd. it is a storied institution. it has a very infamous and famous past. so you start out from that, and you add on to a story like you outlined that really hollywood couldn't make up if they tried. it has all the elements of a movie that we probably will see some day in the theaters when screenwriters get ahold of it. but it has been a story that the city has gripped on to. our readership quite literally can't get enough of it. and traffic to our website is through the roof. it's really a story that has gained interest unlike anything we've seen in a long time. >> well, you know, california has always been seen of the land of the second start, the fresh start. second chapter in their lives, people go out there and start all over again. and then you the mountains, again, a great redoubt, a great place to hide. that's why fiction movies like "high sierra", a place to go to if you're desperate. here is a story, a man attend of his rope. knowing he faces capital punishment, having shot a police officer and killed him. so much of this is coming together now in what we're watching here of this burning cabin. this is the stuff of which great police stories are told. and of course it's all part of our population out of 350 people, we're focusing on two people tonight, this guy, christopher dorner, and the president of the united states. one is giving a state of the union address. and the other is perhaps in that burning cabin. >> very much so. it is a local story. ultimately all news is ultimately local. as you said it has all the makings of a story that people are naturally obsessed with. he wrote this alleged manifesto that police attribute to him and made it clear that he wasn't afraid to die. and that sets up a really dangerous undesirable situation for the cops who are hunting him, because he has shown his willingness to kill. and has now to keep doing so until he is killed. and that he wouldn't be taken alive. it really is a dramatic, dangerous situation. >> i tell you, commissioner bit bratton was on here a few minutes ago. and he was steadfastly defending the honor of the lapd saying all the stories from the past, as bad as they were about racism in the department in the '80s, have been corrected. that the perception of most of your -- well, you can't say in general. generally is that the perception that they have cleaned up their act? >> very much. so and i think we have to -- yes, we have to acknowledge that the lapd of the past is not the lapd of today. they have under bratton while he was here, he pushed through and oversaw a very dramatic reform of the department as the federal government came in and forced changes down the department's throat after several scandals. bratton latched on to the changes and made sure that the department actually bought into them. and in doing so really changed the story line of the lapd. and that said, this whole episode, while you would think nobody would want to touch dorn were a ten-foot pole we have been inundated with e-mails and calls from lapd cops and from the public that say the old lapd is still alive and well. even if that's not the case, and i don't think it is, the memories and the pain and the scars from that time are still very much on the surface. >> it often goes down to personal experiences with the police that are anecdotal, but of course they drive how you think about any life experience. they dominate your thinking. and of course the past is always with. thank you, joel rubin of "the l.a. time." clint van zandt is now with us. clint, thank you. i've been watching you on knbc as we monitor the situation. do we have clint? we don't have clint. >> yeah, i'm up. >> thank you for joining u. clint, here we are once again in a live situation where it's hard to read the future. and a burning cabin, we're watching on the knbc helicopter. it's burning away. we don't know if christopher dorner was in that cabin and presumed dead at this point, or there, and either died at his own hands or died at the hands of law enforcement, it may still be a while before we're able to identify, number one, if somebody is in there. and them two, who that person is. >> what would be the sequence of events? if he were wounded and couldn't move, he would start a fire around him that woo be the only possibility, right? he would have to start the fire and know he couldn't get out. >> two ways. if law enforcement made a decision to put gas, smoke, or anything else in, some of those rounds, for example, that you can either fire from a shotgun or fire from an m-79 have a pyrotechnic capability or aspect to them. even though law enforcement wouldn't fire them in there to intentionally start a fire, in a wooden cabin like that, something could have happened. so just by the introduction of certain types of gas, it could have ignited something inside. or the shooting that took place could have knocked over, you know, a gas lantern or something. >> sure. >> or dorner could have lit it off. >> going back to the experience in philadelphia with the move situation there, what form of weapon is it? is it meant to create smoke and force the person out? is it meant to gas them out? or is it meant to burn a building down? >> well, i think in this particular case, law enforcement had no reason, chris, to try to go inside. as you've reported, we lost another law enforcement officer today, and one critically wounded. the last thing if i would have been an on-scene commander, i would not have wanted to commit a s.w.a.t. team to go inside when this guy very well was firing semiautomatic weapons at law enforcement. >> right. >> so i would have put gas, smoke, or anything at my disposal in to force him out before i would have taken a chance on another law enforcement officer getting shot. >> what will be the plan of action now as the night continues. if there are no developments, and the fire simply goes out some time tonight, the next hour or two, will there be a perimeter setup? will there be a manhunt that continues? >> well, i think law enforcement is probably satisfied itself that it has a good perimeter. as you and i talked on your show earlier. >> right. >> this afternoon, there is going to be an inner and an outer perimeter. and i think law enforcement would be fairly comfortable that nobody was able to run from that cabin, even under the cover of smoke from that fire and get away. if they have satisfied themselves that whoever was inside shooting could not have gotten away, i would say they'll keep a perimeter set around that cabin tonight. they'll probably bring auxiliary lights in. but they'll wait until tomorrow before they go in and see what is actually inside that cabin. again, for safety of law enforcement officers. >> but we will be able to determine through forensic examination of what ever is left in there, whether mr. dorner was there or not. there won't be a mystery left here for conspiracy theorists? >> no. i would guarantee you probably -- as you know, the fbi has got a disaster team. and men and women of that teenagers that's their job to go in to recover the -- even in a fire or an aircraft crash or something like that. they find whatever human skull, bones, anything like that. and they would already have probably dorner's dental records in their hand. and they may well have already gotten dna swabs from at least his mother. so if they find bones and they're able to get a dna from inside the bones or the dental record as the fastest way, if they can go in and worst case scenario they find a skull and it has certain fillings inside the dentistry of that skull, they'll be able to identify it for all practical purposes if it's dorner as his remains. >> clint, here is the challenge. if this is how the story ends, gives us an explanation as to what happened here. what is the story of christopher dorner? >> i think it's a very sad story. i think it's someone who has painted themselves as a victim all of his life, who has not necessarily taken responsibility for his challenges. hey, chris, as you said earlier, we all have problems. everybody gets screwed by their boss or have problems with their agencies or their wife or their girlfriend. those things happen. that's why we call it life. instead of a fairy tale. and in this particular case, losing his job with the lapd, him feeling that it was done, it wasn't the way it was supposed to have been done, that he was discriminated against. losing his job in the navy. but then this just shows someone who's got an ego as big as all outdoors. probably some significant emotional challenges. all of this pent-up energy that could have been used for good to go out and take other human lives. chris, we're going to be waking up tomorrow morning and the next day and saying how sad. number one, so sad for the people that christopher dorner is believed to have killed and injured. and number two, that he wasn't able to resolve his own problems. and if there is anything to be gained from this, anything, it's black, white, whatever color, whatever race, wherever we come from cultural wise, we have to work these situations out. but once you get a legal opinion that said my friend, we listen to the case, and that's the way it goes. we have to learn how to take the bad news with the good news in life. christopher dorner could not handle bad news. when it got too heavy for him, he chose to act out against everyone. and the epicenter of his anger and rage was the 10,000 men and women of the los angeles police department. and everybody else in society who would have stood with him. >> yeah, i think he engaged, if he did, in group guilt, killing not just police officers, but killing the daughter of his former police captain who was defending him in his case, killing her fiance, then again shooting two other officers, killing one today. this is all alleged, but it's all pretty much compacted now in this story we're watching as these flames rise up from the tree there's in the san bernardino mountains in the big bear territory there. what a story. clint, my last thoughts to you as an expert, is this going to be a classic case? is this going to be the kind of thing we study in human resources cases where you have to identify people, a judgment against them they don't like? you have to keep an eye on them or what? >> it's just like gun violence we see across this country, chris. a lot of people have mental health conditions. others just act out. the biggest challenge for profilers when we look at people who commit terrible crimes is why today? why not yesterday? why not next week? why did they choose this particular time? that will probably be the lesson learned in this. but unfortunately, whether we call this an emotionally challenged man or terrible situation of domestic terrorism, we will see other terrible situations in this country. we just have got to be big enough to try to help people try to deal with it. and, you know we have to pray for the dead and the families that are going to be burying their loved ones this week. >> well, i guess the good story, if there is one here that this is still a news story that in this country of 350 million people, we mostly go to work. we put up with things that are done to us we don't think are fair. we have race still as a problem this country in certain parts. we have life that is difficult. as you say, it's not a fairy tale. people get up in the morning. they go to work. they get it done. they don't do things like this. unfortunately, this is still a news story when somebody behaves as this man certainly has here. it's quite a story. hopefully it's a simple case of a strange case of a very strange situation with someone who had great media savvy, who had the brains to keep track of hollywood, to keep up with charlie sheen, to establish relationships with people through the media, to in some strange way enjoy his situation. at the same time wreak havoc in anyone he came in contact with. it is quite a story. it's great to have you on. we're going to continue. we're going to go right now back to john yang for the very latest on this case before we go to cover the state of the union under the leadership of rachel maddow. let's go right now quickly to john yang. the latest capsule of what has happened tonight. >> chris, you see the picture there. that tells the story. the fire burning down. there is very little left oft that cabin to burn. it looks like it's down to the foundation now. this is the cabin where according to san bernardino county sheriff's department a man believed to be christopher dorner had been holed up, had been trading gunfire with law enforcement officials. they said that there was no contact with dorner once he got inside that cabin. the only thing they got coming out of that cabin was gunfire. a fire again somehow. it's still not clear how. and now the cabin has burned to the ground. they believe that dorner did not escape that cabin. and it is going to be a while until they can get in there and see what remains in there, chris. >> so there was no inflammatory materials shot at that cabin? there was nothing launched in there like a smoke bomb or anything like that? there is some reports from the scene that tear gas canisters were fired. there is some reports that there was a smoke bomb. they didn't know which direction it came in, whether it came out of the cabin, whether it was going into the cabin. but the san bernardino county sheriffs official said that there is no -- she has no idea how the fire started. >> let me -- who are we relying on right now for the information we're getting, the reporting? is it coming from the san bernardino sheriff's department? is that who is telling what's is going on there, the fire and the immediate surroundings there? >> there some of that there are also some reports we're getting from knbc reporters in the area who have been able to work their sources among the law enforcement to find out -- to get versions of what is going on, reports of what is going on. so it's a mixture. that's why i say we have conflicting reports about what happened. >> is it dark out there yet in california, in the los angeles area? because i'm looking at a very dark picture here. and how did we know he didn't escape in the dark seasons in. >> exactly. that's the interesting -- that's the question, of how tight a noose were they able to draw around that. you know, were they able to make sure that he is not at large again, that he is not fleeing again into the forest, only to pop up again somewhere. >> well, that's old trade-off, i guess. when you get into a situation, you want to preserve your manpower, make sure nobody gets killed unnecessarily. in keeping your distance, you keep your distance. and he had that opportunity perhaps to escape. we don't know. this could be part of the mystery that we're left with here. bury the forensic experts, according to clint van zandt will be able to determine whether that's him, that he died there or not. it won't end up being like a judge crate other are d.b. cooper kind of story where there are a group of people that hold to his celebrity, if you will. >> there already is sprung up around southern california a group of people online and on twitter who are essentially supporting him. and talking about i think -- it sort of reflects the tensions between the minority communities in los angeles and the lapd, that there were people saying if they spotted dorner, they wouldn't turn him in, saying that he is standing for a cause. so i think that there already is something of a cult grown up around him, and perhaps, perhaps if this has turned deadly here, he will become a martyr. >> well, i don't think to the whole country. >> no. >> but i think people who regardless of ethnicity or race who have had down and out experiences in life generally, or have had bad experiences with the police department generally that. >> take that experience to heart, obviously. that's human nature. and obviously, that's the situation we'd like to see diminished practically to disappearance in our country at some point. but there we have the lapd focused upon by the alleged criminal in this case. the former police officer and former military officer. who lost both those positions in life. was divorced by his wife. apparently had a lot of bad breaks in life, a judgment against him by the lapd to the point he was a down and outer himself. he began to take life in revenge focusing on the lapd, killing two police officers and two others, wounding another police officer and perhaps dying in that fire we're still watching tonight. although when you get into speculation, i think you're in trouble here. so i'm going to keep my eyes open tonight on this case as everyone else will. we'll take a break right now and we'll come right back on msnbc. at a dry cleaner, we replaced people with a machine. what? customers didn't like it. so why do banks do it? hello? hello?! if your bank doesn't let you talk to a real person 24/7, you need an ally. hello? ally bank. your money needs an ally. discover card. cashbacashback concierge?! we have a concierge! i know; it's exciting! wow! what exactly is a cashback concierge? well there's lots of ways you can get cash back - i'm here to help you get the most bang-for-your-buck. it's a personalized thing from discover. it's easy, we won't try and sell you anything, and it's free. free? i want that. yeah you do! this guy is 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expert in s.w.a.t. tactics. he was a training officer. leaves behind a wife and two young children, a 10-year-old and a 4-year-old. we want to add as well, we're just getting word that highway 38, that's where john cadiz klemack has been reporting from, that highway is now reopened to residents only. people heading up into the mountains will be allowed to go back into their homes. >> we can see it clearly here in our newschopper 4 picture that that fire still burning as the sun goes down. and, again, law enforcement officials telling us that they are just going to let it burn. it is too dangerous not only for law enforcement officers to go in there and attempt to make any communication or contact with this person they believe is christopher dorner, but also for any sort of fire officials. so they're just watching this burn like we are, live on the air on nbc 4. let's go to kim baldinado, who has been covering these officers who are involved in the shooting today. she is at loma linda medical center. what can you tell us? what is the latest from there? >> we are continuing to watch law enforcement officers arrive here at loma linda university medical center. where two san bernardino county sheriff's deputies were brought about 2:30 this afternoon. they were airlifted here by helicopter. immediately law enforcement officers started to arrive. they are actually gathered outside the emergency room here, which has been blocked off to regular traffic. about an hour ago, san bernardino county sheriff john mcmahon came out and addressed the media. i believe we have a little bit of what he said now. okay. we do not have that tape. but i can tell you, he confirmed for us that one of the deputies who was shot has died when he arrived here at the hospital. apparently two san bernardino county sheriff's deputies came across a truck matching the description of the one stolen, allegedly stolen by christopher dorner. dorner then allegedly got out of his truck, ran into the forest and a firefight ensued. two of the deputies were shot. one has since died. sheriff mcmahon tells us the other is in surgery, but is expected to survive. they're not releasing the names of either the deceased deputy or the one that is injured. they're waiting until all families have been notified. and have not given us any personal information such as how long they have been on the force, any of that information at all. they're saying it's a very difficult day for them, as you can imagine. not just for san bernardino county sheriffs, but for all law enforcement. it's a very tight knit community, and they have lost one of their own today. reporting live from loma linda, kim baldinado, nbc 4 news. >> all right, kim, thank you. as we continue to look at this fire burn, just for people who know the area, i'm going to give you an exact location here. it is roughly highway 38 and glass road. if you drive down that road, you may have noticed sort of a compound there. we spoke with the own their afternoon. there are about seven cabins in the area. she says this may be the main cabin. they're very austere. they don't even have running water, but there is a propane tank and there is wood inside. no provisions other than that. and so this is what we're watching burning right now. here is what led up to this situation now. we just got a press release from the california department of fish and wildlife. and they really sort of started all this afternoon. at about 12:45, one of their officers was heading down highway 38, recognized a man who fit christopher dorner's description in a car that was traveling in the opposite direction. the officer pursued the car, and that's when the shooting started. we understand then two deputies from the san bernardino county sheriff's department became first responders. they called for mutual aid. they showed up. they described a suspect who looked like christopher dorner. some sort of gunfight ensued there. it went on for about a half hour, and we understand from our sources that hundreds of rounds were exchanged there. they said the suspect fitting christopher dorner's description then took off on foot, took off into the woods and barricaded himself inside a cabin here. >> and we had several reporters listening to that scanner traffic. jacob rascon was there. he is stopped at one of the barricades, said that there were screams. you could hear the gunfire. they were saying that the suspect is has barricaded himself in the kill zone. as we know, one deputy with the san bernardino county sheriff's department killed in that firefight. we've also been talking to an fbi profiler, clint van zandt earlier who is telling us their intentions, the law enforcement there, if they had their way. that would end this before nightfall. but as we see, at 5:38, the temperature dropping and the sun going down up there in big bear. this is still very much an active situation. we want to go back to one of our other reporters on the scene. i believe we're checking in with nbc 4's john cadiz klemack who is live at one of the checkpoints. okay. we're not going to klemack at the moment. >> you know, let me just add a little bit here. we were fascinated listening to the fbi profiler, clint van zandt. he sort of described what sort of scenario would take place here. and he did that because there were no telephone communications. there wasn't electricity here. so he knew that the suspect, whoever was barricaded inside this house would not be watching, would not be able to glean any information. he said typically a s.w.a.t. team would set up an inner perimeter, which is exactly what we understand they did. the outer perimeter was are comed by patrol officers. so they closed off the roads. that's what the patrol officers did. and then the tactical teams, the s.w.a.t. teams, they then moved in closer to the cabin. and we don't know how this fire started at this point. we can tell you it's been going for about an hour and a half. but it could have been tear gas fired in there, something. he said they would try to establish some sort of communication, but given what the chain of events has been, they were not going to endanger any other lives. and it was an immediate situation. they needed to have this done, or something done here before nightfall. >> and he said there were a number of tools they could use. you mentioned the tear gas, the flash-bang grenades if they wanted to try to coax him out of the house. but at this point we're being told right now they're just sitting there and watching this burn. john cadiz klemack reporting earlier from one of the roadblocks on highway 38 that he saw truckloads of lights driving up the hill. and, in fact, if you look closely at the picture, you can sort of see some lights off to the right of your picture there. whether those are for law enforcement officers there to try to continue their look at the scene, we just don't know. again, what is happening on the ground, a standoff with the man believed to be christopher dorner. this is the ex-lapd officer, the former u.s. navy reservist who wrote that manifesto waging war on the lapd. this goes back to super bowl sunday. we had vikki vargas reporting from irvine on the murder of a young couple there, and from there it escalated throughout the week. this manhunt has gone all the way down to san diego and back. and now here we are at big bear again. >> and just yesterday we received video of a man purported to be christopher dorner at a short chalet in torrance buying scuba tanks. there had also been reports given his navy background that he was trying to steal a ship -- not a ship, a boat, and there was a hotel raided in mexico. but again, all along the search has never really left big bear, although it was scaled back just a bit on sunday and monday of this week. and here we find today that suspect matching christopher dorner has been in the mountains all along. kim baldinado has been covering this aspect of the story. we talk about the two deputies who were first responders. they were both taken to loma linda medical center, which is a major trauma center. one of the deputies lost his life. what do you know about the other one right now, kim? >> colleen, they're being very tight-lipped about both deputies at this point. not releasing identifying information about them. we do know that the second deputy who is still alive is in surgery. sheriff john mcmahon with san bernardino county sheriffs told us an hour ago that that second deputy is expected to survive. now, it's starting to get dark here, but i'm going to ask my photographer, sergio, if he can push into the entrance of the emergency room where a large number of law enforcement officers and family members have gathered outside the emergency room. they're keeping the media and everybody else, the general public far enough away to give them some privacy, to give them them some space. adds you can imagine, a very difficult time for everyone in law enforcement when one of their own is killed. now according to sheriff john mcmahon, this is how it all went down. his deputies saw the truck matching the description of the one that dorner was driving. they tried to attempt to pull him over. dorner saw them. he ran off into the forest. gunfire was exchanged, and that is when the two deputies were injured. they're not releasing any information at all either about the extent of the injuries at that second deputy suffered, but both were airlift heard to loma linda university medical center, calling, as you mentioned, a major trauma center for this region. it's generally where they bring the worst of the worst as the pio for this hospital told us earlier. so, again, we are just watching and waiting in standby mode. san bernardino county spokesperson did tell us they do expect to come out with another update later on tonight. i'm not sure of the time frame. as soon as we get more, we will definitely bring to it you. reporting live from loma linda, kim baldinado, nbc 4 news. >> all right, kim. we want you to stand by for just a moment. but i want to read this release that just came. in it's a story from the associated press. and i'm reading it with you for the very first time. the man believed to be the fugitive ex-cop christopher dorner never came out of a california mountain cabin, and a single shot, this is according to the associated press, a single shot was heard inside before the cabin was engulfed in flames. that's according to a law enforcement official who apparently was talking to the associated press. we are trying to get more information on that. and we will bring it to you as soon as we get it. but, again, there have been a lot of sort of red herrings with this. they found his id card in the middle of the street and other things in a dumpster in san diego. so there have been sort of breadcrumbs, if you will, left by christopher dorner in all of this. no one who knows an lapd cop or someone who is in the navy reserves could think that they would leave their id card in the middle of the road or they would lose it next to an airport. it just doesn't seem plausible, if you will. >> and the way this story has developed, the san bernardino county sheriff's department never originally was mentioned in this manifesto. but the manifesto by christopher dorner said that any reinforcing law enforcement agency helping the lapd could potentially be one of his victims. and as we know, the san bernardino county sheriff's department became heavily involved as soon as his truck was found up in the mountains. kim, if we can bring you back, i know that you talked to one of the spokespeople there. just about how the department, the san bernardino county sheriff's department is reacting to the news of one of their officers being killed, one of their deputies and the other one being injured. what are they saying about that news? >> well, witt, as you can imagine, very tough for them to talk about. when the sheriff in the san bernardino sheriff's department came out, spoke for less than a minute. obviously, had difficulty even giving us that news, the confirmation that one of his deputies had died. gave a brief description of how the shooting occurred. and then left. and then the intern county sheriffs spokesperson stepped in and gave a little bit more information, but she didn't have very much either. she had just arrived. i don't know if you can see. there is more law enforcement arriving now. we're seeing police cars arrive. we've seen a lot of plainclothes -- sergio, there is some motorcycle officers arriving now. it's getting dark, difficult to tell what agency that is. but even at this late hour, after a couple of hours of the deputies arriving here, more of the law enforcement family continues to arrive. we've seen some in plainclothes cars with parking lot lights as well. so i imagine this is going to be the scene throughout the night. they are here for the family of the deceased. they are here for the family and for their fellow deputy who was still in surgery here. so a very somber mood right now. and we're hoping to get more information shortly. >> all right, kim. they are there tonight and tomorrow morning. no doubt many of those same officers will be in riverside for the funeral of michael crain will be laid to rest. he of course was the riverside officer who was shot and killed last thursday evening. kim, did you have something to add? no, i think we're just looking at some of the law enforcement. we can tell you that we understand -- the peyer in the mountains right now, they're calling for the fire department to come in. so that would indicate that the scene is safe. let's listen in to the mayor. >> first of all, i want to say that on behalf of the people of los angeles, our hearts and prayers are with the san bernardino deputy who was shot and killed today. our prayers are with their family, with the people of san bernardino with the sheriff's department of that county. i want to thank them for their bravery. i want to thank all of the law enforcement professionals who have day and night tried to bring christopher dorner to justice. and obviously i'm not going to comment on what most of you have seen as i have. because i'm not in a position to do that. that's for the representatives of the san bernardino sheriff's department. i also want to say something about the men and women and their families who were targeted. i've called a number of them over the last few days to tell them that our hearts and prayers are with them. none of us can imagine what they've had to go through, what their children have had to go through, because of the threats of christopher dorner. and i just want to thank the members of the los angeles police department who put their lives on the line every single day. thank you very much. we're live. i'll say now in spanish -- [ speaking spanish ] >> okay, we're listening to mayor villaraigosa talking about -- he expressed condolences to the families of the deputies who were shot today, especially to the family of -- >> that's of course antonio villaraigosa, the mayor of los angeles. we're going to go right now to john yang, who is our nbc correspondent at the bureau in los angeles. john, we're going to wrap up our coverage of this and go to the state of the union coverage at 9:00 eastern, of course, which is still the big national story tonight. but this one certainly challenged it. this is a saga, which you have been covering for all these days. >> it is. it has been going on really for more than a week. but the public manhunt has been going on since last thursday. we're now looking at pictures earlier of the cabin where we believe christopher dorner was holed up, burning. it is now essentially burned to the ground. and we can now see in rather dark pictures, we can see that some fire truck, at least one fire truck has now moved in. and the smoke has turned white, suggesting that water is now being poured on to that fire. today one more sheriff's deputy died, one more law enforcement officer died in this pursuit of christopher dorner. another one was shot several times. but we're being told by law enforcement sources in san bernardino county that he was not -- none of the wounds were to vital areas. he is expected to survive. that same source is also telling nbc producers on the scene that there was -- there were, rather, two hostages held over the weekend in that first cabin where dorner was holed up. that he over the weekend he was hiding in that cabin. remarkably enough, virtually directly across the street from the command post, and was in there over the weekend with these two hostages. today left somehow, and then we're now being told emerged from the woods from the forest and hijacked another car. and then that car was spotted by police. he emerged, traded gunshots with officers, wardens from the california fish and wildlife division. and then ran to this cabin where he was holed up, exchanged more gunfire with law enforcement. somehow a fire began, and now that cabin has burned to the ground. and they have now moved in. they said they would not move in until it was safe. but now apparently they have moved in to start to put that fire out there. are a lot of details we don't know, but that's where we stand right now, chris. >> how much of the story involving perhaps the purchase of scuba equipment and perhaps a plan to escape south of the border has been verified, john? >> well, we do know -- there was an affidavit filed by the u.s. marshall service in support of the charges yesterday. and it did say that some of his belongings, including an id were found near the san ysidro border crossing south of san diego. and there has also been a report that on i believe it was thursday, at some point last week, that a man who fit dorner's description tried to steal a boat, and told the captain of the boat you can get it back in mexico because that's where i'm headed. but then the bow line of the boat became wrapped up in the propeller and disabled the boat. so it does look like perhaps he did try to make it south before heading to big bear lake. >> it's so interesting covering that part of the country, as you do, john, and the way people's instincts are trained perhaps by seeing films. you think about o.j., and when they found him when he was after the bronco chase, he was in the possession of disguise material and a passport and evidence at least, circumstantial that he may have been headed for the border. it's so much a part of that story of southern california, the border being there as a place of refuge. it doesn't work for this fellow, apparently. and, again, i go back to the los angeles police department of dreams, los angeles, where all the movies are made we grew up with. and the strange way in which life imitates art. i talked of "high sierra" where bogart hid in the hills and was killed. james cagney going up in flames at the end yelling "top of the world, ma." t the strange connection between the mind and the love of media attention and the way this person was seeking out media attention, trying to connect in perhaps strange ways with charlie sheen, who has had a troubled past himself, and mentioning names of the media people, myself even. this strange connect between refuge seeking refuge and desperation and still wanting attention. >> and this is a guy who clint van zandt said was angry and had collected all these grievances over the years. he in his manifesto talks about an incident in high school. and even cites the name of the assistant principal he clashed with. cites the name of another student who he clashed with, and clearly had been carrying that with him all that time. and sort of just built up all these other slights that he felt, that he had been railroaded by the lapd because of his race. colleagues on the lapd who had used racial epithets against him. all built up now to this moment, to this conflagration in this cabin in the mountains outside los angeles. >> a los angeles manhunt, we've been used to them over the years. here is one that ended in the mountains here in san bernardino. we lost a life tonight of a police officer doing his job, in action, killed in action, if you will. a member of the deputies department of the sheriff's department of san bernardino county. and he died in a hospital tonight because of wounds. another sheriff's deputy has survived. he is apparently going to make it, which is great news. at least there is some good news tonight. and we're watching here perhaps in that shack out there, that house over there in the hills the end of the life of the troubled man, christopher dorner who apparently led a spree of killings in the last week, killing two police officers, four people all together, including some clearly innocent people. in fact, all four of them are innocent. and here we go to the end of another saga in a violent country, i must say. but fortunately, as i said before, most of us aren't. anyway, we're going to go now to the probably biggest story of the night, which is clearly the story we planned on covering on msnbc and my colleague rachel maddow is going to be picking up in a moment. msnbc's coverage of the state of the union address. we're watching the preliminaries here. and i'm going to turn it over to rachel in just a moment. and in fact, it's a good time to do it. rachel, it's all yours. >> thank you, chris. much appreciated. and thank you at home for joining us for the state of the union tonight. our coverage obviously has unfolded not in the way we expected it to because of this breaking news from california, this standoff in the mountains. again, believed to involve former lapd officer christopher dorner, who was essentially declared a one-manuel-armed war on law enforcement. we will let you know if there are important developments in that situation over the course of the night. but tonight in just moments, the president will fulfill his constitutional responsibility to give congress information on the state of the union, as is spelled out in article 2, section 3 of the constitution. i'm rachel maddow. i'm here with chris matthews tonight from new york. we're joined by our colleagues lawrence o'donnell, reverend al sharpton. ed schultz is in washington to see the speech as is nbc's chuck todd. and former obama campaign adviser robert gibbs is here as well. robert, i understand that i am for the first time tonight able to introduce you as an msnbc contributor. congratulations on that. thanks for being here. >> thank you. i'm happy to be here. >> gun safety reform, immigration reform, climate change, education reform, election reform, ending the war in afghanistan. the president has been explicit that these are all on deck for his second term agenda. how do you pick which of these things can be helped along by prominent placement in a speech like that? >> i think that's what will be interesting to see tonight. the president begins by talking about the budget difficulties and situations we have to deal with over the next couple of weeks. get into a huge priority like immigration and clean energy which the president has. and i expect this speech will end with a pretty emotional call for doing something on gun safety. >> we're right now looking at a live picture of the justices of the supreme court having been announced and entering. not all of the justices of the supreme court make a habit of attending state of the union. antonin scalia makes a habit of explicitly definitely on purpose not attending. he is actually giving a competing speech tonight because he doesn't like going to the state of the union. robert, there was some speculation during the inaugural address where a lot of the supreme court justices were present as well, that they are part of the intended audience when the president addresses, particularly issues like civil rights, that he is cognizant that his words wash over them as much as they wash over anybody else with important issues like doma and election reform and justice voting rights on deck for the supreme court at this point. does he think that way? >> well, i think he does. and, look, they're always up front. they're in the front row tonight. i sat on that stage of the inaugural. they were only a few feet away from him. he exemplifies, when you talk about a case like doma or the expansion of gay rights, you know, he represents what is going on in america, and that is a real sea change in our country about how we believe all of us ought to be treated. and i know the president hopes that not just every citizen, but those in judicial positions hear that message as well. >> one last question for you, robert, in terms of the timing here. obviously it was just three weeks ago that the president gave his second inaugural address. how do you divide the labor between an important start of the second term speech like that and a speech tonight i should say and what we're looking at the visual right now as well as the first lady entering the capitol building. between those two speeches, though, robert, how does the president decide? >> well, i think they look at them as two speeches that are bookends for each other. and i think the inaugural is a big speech with vision and values. i think this speech will be much more detailed in terms of policy and the actual direction that the president wants to take legislatively and what we know will be an incredibly important year in this term. >> robert gibbs, thank you very much for joining us. we'll be talking with you again soon i'm sure. i want to bring in my colleague lawrence o'donnell and al sharpton. we have just a few moments as the president's cabinet will be entering the room right now. michael steele, let me start with you. as a former chairman of the party, republican, looking at the first state of the union of the president's second term tonight, what are you most hoping to hear tonight? >> i'm hoping the president goes big on the economy. i hope he really lays down what he hopes to accomplish in the next 18 months with all the things that are still on the table, the fiscal cliff sequester and a bunch of other items you have to deal with, he has to put that in perspective for the country. tonight it's about partisanship, yes, but it's also about the president setting a tone for going forward. and republicans had better be prepared to respond to that. >> we have seen the advanced excerpts leaked out. focus was on jobs and the economy. we are told that that will be the centerpiece what the president talks about. al, looking ahead tonight, what are you most looking for? >> the economy, how we're going to deal with creating johnson, as well as the president on immigration, on voting rights. the supreme court will hear oral arguments this month on whether it is constitutional to continue section 5 of the voting rights act. that goes directly to whether the justice department can protect people like the 102-year-old lady that is sitting in the first lady's box tonight. and on gun legislation. hadiya pendleton's parents there. people from newtown there. we need to hear those issue as well. but the economy and jobs will be the centerpiece. but these other areas certainly priorities given who is sitting in the first lady's box. i think the president is definitely going to raise them. and i think it's definitely going to set a tone for the country for the next several years and even beyond his presidency, if in fact we can get some things done. >> one of the visuals you'll notice, as you're looking at the shots of the capital right now are the green ribbons people are wearing tonight. those are in honor of the victims of sandy hook elementary school, the mass shooting there in december. we are expecting tonight if only because of the guest list from members of congress, more than 30 members of congress giving their tickets to tonight's speech away to somebody associated with an incident of gun violence in this country. but also from the first lady's guest list tonight that the issue of gun violence and gun safety reform will be on the agenda. lawrence, what are you looking ahead to tonight? >> well, what i was just looking at a few minutes ago was john kerry's entrance into the house chamber for the first time as a cabinet member. he walked in with the delegation from the cabinet. and he is as secretary of state recognized as the most important cabinet member. what i have not figured out is which cabinet member is staying home, because one must. >> oh, i know, i know, i know. it's steven chu, the outgoing energy secretary. so if something catastrophic happens, it will be steven chu. >> he is 13th in line. >> every cabinet member can tell you where they are in the line of success. i once had a cabinet member say to me quite seriously, as to underscore her point, i'm 13th in the line of succession, you know. >> chris matthews. >> it's a lot to chew on. >> you have been holding down the fort, covering the other major story of the night. one of the things that is so important about the state of the union, obviously, it's a constitutional responsibility there is so much decorum and gravitas associated with it. but also, it is a huge media moment there is so much attention on policy and on the relationship between president and the congress. how is that affected by the fact that there is a huge other news story tonight that is taking up half the country's attention? >> well, i think the countries tomorrow will balance the two-stories. i think no matter what the president says tonight, but i do think gun violence, the fact that this person had rigged their gun for automatic fire. it's easy enough to do it. he is a smart guy. he was a very smart man with guns. the fact that he could use machine gun fire against police officers is very much on the mark here. i want to say one other thing. the one good thing in this past presidential election, which everyone in the country felt good about, except mitt romney, which isn't a bad thing, everybody but one guy was the picture of chris christie of new jersey walking along the beach with president obama. they want to see something get done. they don't want them to like each other, love each other, hold hands, shake hands, just get something done together. and that's what they want to see. i hope we can see some of that tonight. i don't think we will. >> one of the symbolic ways that we will see that, if you are used to watching state of the unions from any year prior to 2011, you're used to seeing half the room sand up while the other half stays seated. and then they switch side whenever the ideology changes in the comment. that has not happened since 2007 because that's the first year that members of congress started sitting with other members, with members of the other party for watching this address. so you don't just have republicans on one side and democrats on the other. after gabby giffords was shot and nearly killed just days before the state of the union in 2011, democrats and republicans started pairing up and sitting together and not having that obvious partisan split. so you will see that tonight. i don't know whether or not we should see that as something more than just symbolic. the group no labels tonight is also letting people know they say more than 40 members of congress are going to be wearing orange badges that say "fix not fight." it's members of congress who are pairing up, one from each party, promising to meet twice a month and to be problem solvers. are you wearing one of those? >> jon huntsman tried to wear a badge. he tried to be the nominated republican party. partisanship didn't work for jon huntsman. >> it is awkward to be the no labels party with a label. what does it say there? >> let's see here. i'll get it off for you. it is -- problem solver. i want to get it right. i want to get it right, reverend. committed to fix, not fight. no labels, problem solver. i wanted to get the whole thing, bro. >> all right, bro. >> there is a lot of effort on this, whether it's chris christie and president obama together, whether it is the symbolic nature of sitting together. members of congress treat this as date night. they announce which other member from across the aisle they're it is sitting with. it is sort of a date. claire mccaskill apparently has two republican dates. so she has a three-way date this evening for her seating arrangements. but the state of the union is considered to be one of those high-minded moments, right, where you don't necessarily engage in partisan warfare. you ask people to transcend it. >> it's a great moment. i think we learned from bill clinton the irony of ironies that people want detail. as much as we like punchy writing and the bottom line lining it. the people want to know. perhaps they're gay. perhaps they're having a situation with abortion rights. perhaps they're involved with an economic problem or a labor problem. they want to hear the answer. and they want the president to get to it, what we call a laundry list. they're on the list, these people. and so as much as we find it process sak prosaic, they find it useful. >> referencing john kerry ahead of time. is there anything that you can tell from what the president has done thus far in his inaugural, in his cabinet selections, in the way he has behaved toward congress since being reelected that gives us sort of a map how a second term might be different than the first? >> i always thought his cabinet selects are based on a real governing effort that does not have a short-term horizon to it. and so i don't find clues in that other than he takes a very serious approach to it. i do think he has a unique opportunity here with the schedule short-term. and that is the march 1 sequester. this is a night for him to try to box in the republicans on how to go forward with the sequester. and it's a crucial thing. because the republicans are saying these cuts are absolutely draconian, and they will wipe out our national defense. and the president is saying i partially agree with you on that. and here is my proposal for dealing with that, which includes closing some tax loop holes for millionaires andors. and the republicans are saying no, we won't touch those tax loopholes. we are willing to let these horrible defense cuts go in. and so this is one of those moments where the president can cut through those two lines that don't meet each other in the debate, and try to create the picture of this debate. because some people, many people will be hearing about the sequester and these cuts for the very first time tonight. >> we're told that the president is on his way to the chamber. of course, his entrance into the chamber will be announced by the sergeant at arms, paul irving, who will say the big official thing, and then it will take the president forever to get down the aisle as everybody wants to shake his hand as he approaches the podium. but that is just moments away. >> first time using a microphone. >> to make the announcement? >> instead of mr. speaker! which was always broadcast with basso profundo. >> maybe it will be better. >> there was a talent to the projection in the old days. >> a skill. >> there have been a lot of press leaks this week, a lot of news analysis pieces from people talking to knowledgeable sources, saying we should expect the president in tone to be aggressive tonight, to continue some of the economic populism of his inaugural address. let's pause to hear him introduced here. >> mr. speaker, the president of the united states. [ applause ] >> i don't know, chris. i don't think the mic ruined it. >> i'm just trying to -- >> these folks, they crowd the aisles. they're there for hours in advance. >> has been there since last week. every single state of the union he gets on the aisle. he doesn't care if it's a democrat or a republican, he is on the aisle. >> you see the president entering along with along with the congressional leadership right behind. you see harry reid, eric cantor there. and members of congress. these are coveted seats. just saying before the president was introduced here, there has been all this advanced notice that the president will be sort of keeping with his confident, even arguably aggressive tone that he has taken since his reelection. the quote that stood out for me from politico this week, it was assigned to a person close to the drafting of the speech. >> right. >> said the president's approach to the republican party in this speech would be borrowed from the 2500-year-old chinese book philosophy "the art of war." and the quote was "build your opponent a golden bridge to retreat across." . >> i like the quote. and i think that would be probably a good strategy for the president. i mean, i would hope that we don't see a lot of partisan bickering, but i hope he is aggressive in terms of the proposals that he is going to lay out. this being his last term, most people say 18 months and then you start looking lame duck. so very important speech as to what his presidency and his legacy is going to mean. and i think as people watch, people on the aisles who have been sitting there since the afternoon to get a camera shot more than a hand shot, not all the people grabbing his hand are necessarily going to be aggressively backing his plans. the real deal is going to be when they leave the chamber, what they will do with what he lays out tonight. >> and in terms of the bipartisanship, though, to see the president followed immediately by eric cantor, to see eric cantor shaking hands with the democratic members of congress who are so enthusiastic about the president. >> elijah cummings? >> it was mark udall, the senator from colorado who started in 2011 this tradition of members of opposite parties sitting together. he'll be sitting with lisa murkowski. kerr sten gillibrand will be sitting with john mccain. joe manchin will be sitting with republican mark kirk. democratic senator mark begich of attorney general will sit with a republican congressman from his own state, don young. in illinois it will be a democratic and republican congress. sitting with republican rodney davis. in virginia they're doing the same thing. secretary john kerry now, in virginia it will be democratic senator tim kaine with randy forbes, president interacting there with members of the supreme court. ruth bader ginsburg, steven breyer. >> probably the most important vote for president obama was right there, the chief justice, who voted for the health care plan. >> that's right. toes are the president's two appointees to the supreme court there. this is sonia sotomayor, two of the unheralded but very, very important accomplishments of his first time, the confirmation of those two supreme court justices, sonia sotomayor, of course, the first latina supreme court justice in the nation's history. the president now greeting joint chiefs, including ray odierno who is the really tall bald guy. the long, long, long tours of duty as commanding duty in iraq. he is now commanding the entire u.s. army. >> robbie rush, who was the only one to ever defeat barack obama in an election. >> yes. place of honor. >> he showed him, didn't he. >> now with the president taking the dais, you will see joe biden and john boehner throughout him throughout the speech tonight. the president will be handed the speech and will get under way, and there will be a lot of applause, and there will be a constitutional duty fulfilled. let's listen. >> thank you. thank you. thank you. so good to see you right now. >> members of congress, i have the high privilege and distinct honor of presenting to you the president of the united states. >> thank you. thank you. thank you. thank you. thank you very much. thank you so much. thank you. thank you very much. thank you. please, everybody have a seat. mr. speaker, mr. vice president, members of congress, fellow americans, 51 years ago, john f. kennedy declared to this chamber that the constitution makes us not rivals for power but partners for progress. it is my task, he said, to report the state of the union. to improve it is the task of us all. tonight thanks to the grit and determination of the american people, there is much progress to report. after a decade of grinding war, our brave men and women in uniform are coming home. after years of grueling recession, our businesses have created over six million new jobs. we buy more american cars than we have in five years, and less foreign oil than we have in 20. our housing market is healing. our stock market is rebounding, and consumers, patients and homeowners enjoy stronger protections than ever before. so together we have cleared away the rubble of crisis. and we can say with renewed confidence that the state of our union is stronger.
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