issue to his re—election. in fact, in a recent cnn poll, 74% of voters said they don't think he "has the stamina and the sharpness to be an effective president". i think ithink our i think our viewers probably followed that, amanda. the problem is they'll have to get out there very quickly and stake a claim to their reelection because of the moment, the only thing people are focusing on, it seems to me, are the cost of living and the president's age. it cost of living and the president's ace. , cost of living and the president's aie, , ., . cost of living and the president's ae. ,., . ., cost of living and the president's age. it is a topic of conversation, when you — age. it is a topic of conversation, when you find — age. it is a topic of conversation, when you find it _ age. it is a topic of conversation, when you find it on _ age. it is a topic of conversation, when you find it on saturday - age. it is a topic of conversation, | when you find it on saturday night live, that means people are talking about it and it also happens to be his birthday. but what they are also seeing as a president go out, talk to leaders, he was just at aipac, so the ministration and the campaign are doing a good job getting him out there. there's no doubt this is a part of the conversation and what makes it fuzzier is trump is also older in age, and you're beginning to see some of the missteps and mistakes and memorising problems — that has gray into the conversation a bit, but there is no doubt that from here on out, he's gotta start talking to young people, especially young people concerned about his foreign policy ideas and watching social media in a different kind of way. it's a different election day and how he ran last year, so you'll see more coming out of the administration making sure they shore up those young for orders because of how important the 20/20 for election is.— for election is. they got rid of 100 20s for election is. they got rid of 100 205 bit for election is. they got rid of 100 20s bit of an _ for election is. they got rid of 100 20s bit of an billion _ for election is. they got rid of 100 20s bit of an billion dollars - for election is. they got rid of 100 20s bit of an billion dollars of - 20s bit of an billion dollars of student debt that's $127 billion of student debt that's $127 billion of student debt, which is not nothing for young people, and then there's the environmental case, the inflation reduction act, all the money that's in that for the green shift. do you think at the moment, they are framing this as a him versus donald trump, when in fact what they should be focusing on is what they should be focusing on is what a second term might look like? that's right, and it's really hard to have that conversation. i'll say about student loans, it's a bit of, what have you done for me lately? but also making sure to remind people what you actually did for them, then creating that vision for them, then creating that vision for the future. it would be a little too early for any presidential campaign to do that right now, but i'm sure there are a whole heck of a lot of campaign staff putting those policies forward about what it looks like on the future. but there's always polling happening that gives you a bit of a window into what you do need to work on, and there's no doubt young people are a key target for this campaign going forward. what do you think the embassies in washington will be making of this latest nbc poll? will the alarm bells be ringing in chancellors across europe? i bells be ringing in chancellors across europe?— bells be ringing in chancellors across europe? i think so. it is re across europe? i think so. it is pretty alarming. _ across europe? i think so. it is pretty alarming, particularly i across europe? i think so. it is pretty alarming, particularly if| across europe? i think so. it is - pretty alarming, particularly if you look at _ pretty alarming, particularly if you look at how donald trump is doing in some _ look at how donald trump is doing in some of— look at how donald trump is doing in some of those swing states that will decide _ some of those swing states that will decide the _ some of those swing states that will decide the final result. and it has to he _ decide the final result. and it has to he said — decide the final result. and it has to be said thatjoe biden is not a young _ to be said thatjoe biden is not a young 81—year—old. there are other people _ young 81—year—old. there are other people of— young 81—year—old. there are other people of his age who look a lot younger— people of his age who look a lot younger than he does. yes, donald trump _ younger than he does. yes, donald trump is _ younger than he does. yes, donald trump is 77, — younger than he does. yes, donald trump is 77, but ghastly those prospects _ trump is 77, but ghastly those prospects of him coming back would be, prospects of him coming back would he, he _ prospects of him coming back would be, he looks a younger man, he is more _ be, he looks a younger man, he is more vigorous, his voice is stronger, _ more vigorous, his voice is stronger, his general demeanour is of a considerably younger man than joe biden— of a considerably younger man than joe biden and it worries me what will happen between now and this time next — will happen between now and this time next year when we have a presidential election, whetherjoe biden_ presidential election, whetherjoe biden willjust simply looked too old. biden willjust simply looked too old it's— biden willjust simply looked too old it's a — biden willjust simply looked too old. it's a difficult question and amanda will know all the risks involved — amanda will know all the risks involved much greater than i am, but whether_ involved much greater than i am, but whether the — involved much greater than i am, but whether the democrats would do better— whether the democrats would do better with a young candidate. just ruickl , do better with a young candidate. jut quickly, do you think there will already be a plan in place for how you campaign with an 81—year—old? there already is, you're seeing that a lot more of surrogates, and from the beginning, whojoe biden is has always been about the full team, like with barack obama, that's his style and that fits with someone who he can lean on to talk about the policies and future vision too, i suspect that's what we'll see more of, then little highlights about where joe of, then little highlights about wherejoe biden is leading the country in the way he is right now, and the foreign policy world. so more, the harris? is not an 81—year—old, so lots more people will surely have to be thing about the fact that he doesn't get to an end of the second term.— the fact that he doesn't get to an end of the second term. they've been doin: lots end of the second term. they've been doing lots of— end of the second term. they've been doing lots of meeting _ end of the second term. they've been doing lots of meeting here _ end of the second term. they've been doing lots of meeting here for- doing lots of meeting here for aipac, the helicopters were swirling around both, she was on one side of the bay and he was on the other, and that's very much how we are seeing the campaign from the front lines, as they are doing it together, but it really is a broader cabinet that is also out there, whether that secretary pete or secretary of hhs, and you're seeing governorships on the front line which are particularly important, like the state of michigan, where he has governor gretchen witmer out there and talk about the policies he's instituted in the policies moving forward. j’iiii instituted in the policies moving forward. �* ., ., ~ , forward. i'll have to keep practising _ forward. i'll have to keep practising pete _ forward. i'll have to keep| practising pete buttigieg's forward. i'll have to keep - practising pete buttigieg's name if he's going to be on the campaign train all the way through. for 85 days starting in february of last year, the city of mariupol in southern ukraine turned into a living hell. under siege by russian missiles and artillery, the people of the city were bombarded night and day as the tanks closed in around them. and among those trapped were a team of ukrainian ap journalists, who dug in and continued their work documenting the atrocities of the russian invasion. as the only international reporters who remained in the city, they captured the full horror of what unfolded. that footage has now been made into a feature film — 20 days in mariupol. it has already picked up a number of awards, including — at the sundance film festival — the audience award for best world documentary. here is a snippet. this is the first time i saw a z. the russian sign of war. the hospital is surrounded. dozens of doctors, hundreds of patients, and us. i have no illusions about what will happen to us if we are caught. the documentary is available digitally from wednesday, and i'm pleased to say the director and journalist behind the film, mstyslav chernov, joins me now. thank you very much for being here. having done some more reporting in my time, there's always a point in the field where you have to decide whether you stay or go. when did you make the decision to stay, and where is there ever a moment where you question that decision? j is there ever a moment where you question that decision?— question that decision? i think the decision was _ question that decision? i think the decision was made _ question that decision? i think the decision was made even _ question that decision? i think the decision was made even before i question that decision? i think the | decision was made even before the siege _ decision was made even before the siege was— decision was made even before the siege was in— decision was made even before the siege was in place _ decision was made even before the siege was in place. just _ decision was made even before the siege was in place. just by- decision was made even before the siege was in place. just by lookingl siege was in place. just by looking at the _ siege was in place. just by looking at the map— siege was in place. just by looking at the map and— siege was in place. just by looking at the map and how _ siege was in place. just by looking at the map and how close - siege was in place. just by looking at the map and how close russia i at the map and how close russia is try at the map and how close russia is by knowing — at the map and how close russia is by knowing mariupol— at the map and how close russia is by knowing mariupol is _ at the map and how close russia is by knowing mariupol is symbolic i at the map and how close russia is. by knowing mariupol is symbolic and an important— by knowing mariupol is symbolic and an important target _ by knowing mariupol is symbolic and an important target for— by knowing mariupol is symbolic and an important target for russia, - by knowing mariupol is symbolic and an important target for russia, we l an important target for russia, we saw it— an important target for russia, we saw it might — an important target for russia, we saw it might be _ an important target for russia, we saw it might be surrounded, - an important target for russia, we saw it might be surrounded, and l an important target for russia, we i saw it might be surrounded, and we made _ saw it might be surrounded, and we made the _ saw it might be surrounded, and we made the decision— saw it might be surrounded, and we made the decision to _ saw it might be surrounded, and we made the decision to go _ saw it might be surrounded, and we made the decision to go there. - saw it might be surrounded, and we made the decision to go there. andl made the decision to go there. and since _ made the decision to go there. and since that— made the decision to go there. and since that decision _ made the decision to go there. and since that decision was _ made the decision to go there. and since that decision was made, - made the decision to go there. and since that decision was made, we l since that decision was made, we braced _ since that decision was made, we braced ourselves _ since that decision was made, we braced ourselves for— since that decision was made, we braced ourselves for the - since that decision was made, we braced ourselves for the siege - since that decision was made, we i braced ourselves for the siege and to stay— braced ourselves for the siege and to stay as — braced ourselves for the siege and to stay as long _ braced ourselves for the siege and to stay as long as _ braced ourselves for the siege and to stay as long as possible. - braced ourselves for the siege and to stay as long as possible. that . to stay as long as possible. that decision— to stay as long as possible. that decision was _ to stay as long as possible. that decision was made _ to stay as long as possible. that decision was made before, - to stay as long as possible. that decision was made before, then| to stay as long as possible. that. decision was made before, then we 'ust decision was made before, then we just had _ decision was made before, then we just had to — decision was made before, then we just had to stick— decision was made before, then we just had to stick with _ decision was made before, then we just had to stick with it _ decision was made before, then we just had to stick with it and - just had to stick with it and survive _ just had to stick with it and survive. ., _ . , ., survive. you say in the clip that we've just _ survive. you say in the clip that we've just seen _ survive. you say in the clip that we've just seen that _ survive. you say in the clip that we've just seen that you - survive. you say in the clip that we've just seen that you knew i survive. you say in the clip that - we've just seen that you knew what the implications were, so how did you operate and document this for so long without the russians catching you? long without the russians catching ou? �* , �* you? here's the thing - i've never seen anything _ you? here's the thing - i've never seen anything like _ you? here's the thing - i've never seen anything like that _ you? here's the thing - i've never seen anything like that before, i you? here's the thing - i've never| seen anything like that before, it's not usual— seen anything like that before, it's not usual for— seen anything like that before, it's not usual for a _ seen anything like that before, it's not usual for a besieged _ seen anything like that before, it's not usual for a besieged city- seen anything like that before, it's not usual for a besieged city of- not usual for a besieged city of 500,000 — not usual for a besieged city of 500,000 people, _ not usual for a besieged city of 500,000 people, there - not usual for a besieged city of 500,000 people, there are i not usual for a besieged city of. 500,000 people, there are only not usual for a besieged city of- 500,000 people, there are only three journalists _ 500,000 people, there are only three journalists working. _ 500,000 people, there are only three journalists working. now _ 500,000 people, there are only three journalists working. now we _ 500,000 people, there are only three journalists working. now we know- journalists working. now we know another _ journalists working. now we know another film—maker— journalists working. now we know another film—maker who - journalists working. now we know another film—maker who was - journalists working. now we knowl another film—maker who was there with us, _ another film—maker who was there with us, unfortunately— another film—maker who was there with us, unfortunately as - another film—maker who was there with us, unfortunately as he - another film—maker who was there with us, unfortunately as he was . with us, unfortunately as he was trying _ with us, unfortunately as he was trying to— with us, unfortunately as he was trying to leave _ with us, unfortunately as he was trying to leave the _ with us, unfortunately as he was trying to leave the same - with us, unfortunately as he was trying to leave the same way - with us, unfortunately as he was - trying to leave the same way through the green _ trying to leave the same way through the green corridor, _ trying to leave the same way through the green corridor, he _ trying to leave the same way through the green corridor, he was _ trying to leave the same way through the green corridor, he was captured i the green corridor, he was captured and executed — the green corridor, he was captured and executed by— the green corridor, he was captured and executed by russian— the green corridor, he was captured and executed by russian forces. - the green corridor, he was captured | and executed by russian forces. and that told _ and executed by russian forces. and that told us— and executed by russian forces. and that told usjust _ and executed by russian forces. and that told us just enough _ and executed by russian forces. and that told us just enough what - and executed by russian forces. and that told us just enough what would i that told us just enough what would happen— that told us just enough what would happen to _ that told us just enough what would happen to us — that told us just enough what would happen to us if— that told us just enough what would happen to us if we _ that told us just enough what would happen to us if we were _ that told us just enough what would happen to us if we were caught. - that told us just enough what would happen to us if we were caught. atl happen to us if we were caught. at that point, — happen to us if we were caught. at that point, it's— happen to us if we were caught. at that point, it's not _ happen to us if we were caught. at that point, it's not the _ happen to us if we were caught. at that point, it's not the first- happen to us if we were caught. at that point, it's not the first where. that point, it's not the first where i'm that point, it's not the first where i'm going — that point, it's not the first where i'm going through. _ that point, it's not the first where i'm going through, so— that point, it's not the first where i'm going through, so i— that point, it's not the first where i'm going through, so i do- that point, it's not the first where i'm going through, so i do have . that point, it's not the first where - i'm going through, so i do have more experience. _ i'm going through, so i do have more experience. i— i'm going through, so i do have more experience, i know— i'm going through, so i do have more experience, i know how— i'm going through, so i do have more experience, i know how to _ i'm going through, so i do have more experience, i know how to operate i experience, i know how to operate there _ experience, i know how to operate there you — experience, i know how to operate there you try— experience, i know how to operate there you try to _ experience, i know how to operate there. you try to plan _ experience, i know how to operate there. you try to plan ahead, - experience, i know how to operate there. you try to plan ahead, but. there. you try to plan ahead, but obviously— there. you try to plan ahead, but obviously there's— there. you try to plan ahead, but obviously there's only _ there. you try to plan ahead, but obviously there's only that - there. you try to plan ahead, but obviously there's only that muchl there. you try to plan ahead, but. obviously there's only that much you can plan, _ obviously there's only that much you can plan, and— obviously there's only that much you can plan. and you _ obviously there's only that much you can plan, and you rely— obviously there's only that much you can plan, and you rely on _ obviously there's only that