now on bbc news: unspun world withjohn simpson. hello and welcome to unspun world. he at the bbc london headquarters. after a brief pause, will the war in gaza enter a new and even more worrying a stage?— worrying a stage? the advancement, - worrying a stage? the advancement, the - worrying a stage? the. advancement, the gaza worrying a stage? he advancement, the gaza strip worrying a stage? tie advancement, the gaza strip is in the south and that will mean a lot of casualties if they continue the way they have, civilians dead. figs continue the way they have, civilians dead.— continue the way they have, civilians dead. as cop28 rolls out in dubai, _ civilians dead. as cop28 rolls out in dubai, disturbing - out in dubai, disturbing evidence about the health effects of oil and gas production on the people of the region. production on the people of the reuion. . , , ., region. really high levels of respiratory _ region. really high levels of respiratory disease, - region. really high levels of| respiratory disease, asthma, also high levels of heart disease and this is particularly bad in communities that live close to the gas flaring. that live close to the gas flarinu. �* , ., , that live close to the gas flarinu. �* , ., flaring. and is europe as a continent _ flaring. and is europe as a continent lurching - flaring. and is europe as a continent lurching towards flaring. and is europe as a - continent lurching towards the far—right? continent lurching towards the far-ri . ht? ~ continent lurching towards the far-riuht? ~ , ., far-right? when it comes to concerns — far-right? when it comes to concerns about _ far-right? when it comes to concerns about the - far-right? when it comes to concerns about the cost - far-right? when it comes to concerns about the cost of l concerns about the cost of living, i think when it comes to migration, you can say that europe is moving to the right. the pattern that has been followed injust the pattern that has been followed in just about every war israel has fought since 1973 has been repeated now in gaza. israel is attacked, it back hard, too hard for the liking of israel was like friends and particularly the united states and then there is a myth pressure for a ceasefire. after that, the issueis ceasefire. after that, the issue is how long the ceasefire or ceasefire is can be very long for. in the case of the gaza war, of course, israel has a very real interest in extending the ceasefire because thatis extending the ceasefire because that is how it gathers hostages back. but this means that israel's determination to destroy hamas is undermined, even though there is a clear determination among western governments that hamas should not be allowed to control gaza again. the eu was a foreign affairs achieve is only the latest international figure to make this point. the bbc international editorjeremy bowen is back in london from gaza for a few days before heading out there again. what is the situation like on the ground? i is the situation like on the round? ., ., ground? i went into the north of gaza with _ ground? i went into the north of gaza with the _ ground? i went into the north of gaza with the israeli - ground? i went into the north of gaza with the israeli army l of gaza with the israeli army one day and because the civilians had all been ordered out, forced out, pushed out, fled, they are dealing — i do not see one civilian. they are really hammering the place. there was not one interactive building that i saw. if they want to do that in the south, well, there is the issue for the vast majority of the population of the gaza strip, which is approximately 2.4 million, a ring that area. that will mean a lot of casualties if they continue the way they have, civilian dead, and that is of course going to increase the pressure on israel. not just as enemies but its allies. the americans, the british, staunch allies have so that you many palestinian civilians are being healed by the israeli military. being healed by the israeli milita . w , being healed by the israeli milita . , ., military. the fact is that the israeli army _ military. the fact is that the israeli army is _ military. the fact is that the israeli army is not _ military. the fact is that the i israeli army is not empowered to listen to these western warnings. to listen to these western warnin95-_ to listen to these western warnin . s. , , warnings. they see the fight within the — warnings. they see the fight within the laws _ warnings. they see the fight within the laws of— warnings. they see the fight within the laws of war - warnings. they see the fight within the laws of war and l warnings. they see the fight i within the laws of war and they respect all the rules regarding protection of civilian lives and when civilians get killed, that it and when civilians get killed, thatitis and when civilians get killed, that it is the fault of hamas because they use civilians as human shields. that is not something clearly that is accepted by its allies, the us, britain, the french. they have that explicitly that too many have been killed. what do they do? do they fight in a different way? do they use lighter weight weapons that as well as hitting the target do not necessarily kill everybody within a certain radius around it? do they not send in heavy thanks, julie sent in men in smaller squads instead and therefore exposing them to much more risk? it is a really difficult military problem and it is compounded by the fact that there does not seem to be a thought out political objective on the israeli side for how all these ends. [30 objective on the israeli side for how all these ends. do you think this _ for how all these ends. do you think this is — for how all these ends. do you think this is also _ for how all these ends. do you think this is also going - for how all these ends. do you think this is also going to - think this is also going to change the way that israel is governed, is approaches, is attitudes? i governed, is approaches, is attitudes?— governed, is approaches, is attitudes? , ., i, i, i, attitudes? i spoke to a man who was in the _ attitudes? i spoke to a man who was in the 90s _ attitudes? i spoke to a man who was in the 90s oslo _ attitudes? i spoke to a man who was in the 90s oslo peace - was in the 90s 0slo peace process, and it was the speaker of the parliament. i said to him what has this under the israeli psyche in terms of the trauma that the country is going through? he said look, thejewish state, the existence of israel, was meant to inoculate us against the holocaust and all of that, awful legacy, the terrible memories. he said suddenly people are thinking the vaccination is not working. he said the mindset of israeli is has gone back to something like between the end of the second world war and the declaration of israeli independence in 1948. in other words, a great deal of uncertainty. i think things have changed in so far as israel is a very powerful, very secure country in many ways. there are these existential worries that they have because of the way their security was breached in such a profound matter. the security was breached in such a profound matter.— profound matter. the bbc has been attacked, _ profound matter. the bbc has been attacked, is _ profound matter. the bbc has been attacked, is still - profound matter. the bbc has been attacked, is still being . been attacked, is still being attacked by hamas supporters. almost as much as it is being attacked by israeli supporters. is that your feeling of how it has gone, that you personally have had that degree of personal attack? have had that degree of personalattack? in have had that degree of personal attack?- have had that degree of personal attack? in a sense, ioes personal attack? in a sense, goes with — personal attack? in a sense, goes with the _ personal attack? in a sense, goes with the territory. - personal attack? in a sense, goes with the territory. at i personal attack? in a sense, goes with the territory. at a | goes with the territory. at a time like this when both sides are really hurting, for a whole variety of reasons, they are not interested in a partial journalist. they want support. they want their victimhood to be acknowledged. they want us to be cheerleaders for whatever side it is they support. that is not the business that we are in injournalism and at the bbc. if it keeps us as accurate as we can possibly be at all times, well, that is to be good. i don't think it is necessarily a bad thing to be criticised. i think it is part of it. also in modern warfare, the media battlefield is a really, really important. perceptions of victory count almost as much, certainly in the minds of politicians, and people. as the actual realities on the ground. i people. as the actual realities on the ground.— people. as the actual realities on the ground. i have a friend, a leading _ on the ground. i have a friend, a leading journalist _ on the ground. i have a friend, a leading journalist with - on the ground. i have a friend, a leading journalist with very i a leading journalist with very strong links to the military in particular. he said to me he thought that it was at least possible that israel's sharp shift to the right may have come to an end now with all of this. it might now become necessary for israel to work for some other kind of future theyjust for some other kind of future they just simply for some other kind of future theyjust simply dominating the palestinian population. is he being to over optimistic? {line being to over optimistic? one ofthe being to over optimistic? one of the two _ being to over optimistic? one of the two main _ being to over optimistic? (me: of the two main opposition leaders is now in the war cabinet. the extremist fire riser members who have sustained benjamin netanyahu's sustained benjamin neta nyahu's government sustained benjamin netanyahu's government are not in the cabinet. i think that if there is a scenario which is what the americans want, that a peace process is somehow restarting, that the palestinian authority, which is the other side of palestinian politics, comes in and runs the place somehow. then you can see that scenario perhaps playing out and leaders change from change, policy change. benjamin netanyahu has spent most of his career, among many things, thwarting the establishment of a palestinian state, so that is something thatjoe biden feels is the only solution ahead. it is something that benjamin netanyahu has spent his whole career, despite one or two speeches to the contrary, actively doing all his can free not to happen. c0 p28, cop28, the c0 p28, the international conference cop28, the international conference to cut emissions and hopefully limit global warming, has opened in the united arab emirates. 0ne has opened in the united arab emirates. one of the world's biggest producers of fossil fuels. ahead of the conference, who was also the head of a major oil company, argues that the best way forward is to ensure that big oil is working with the ecologists in reducing global warming harmful effects. though his company is planning much greater expansion over the next three years and saudi arabia is reported to be encouraging poorer countries to buy more oil and gas. last year, bbc arabic broadcast a remarkable documentary showing the effects of oil production on the health of people in southern iraq. now it has reduced another film called breathless, which shows the worrying effects which the habitual burning off of gases, a process known as flaring, has on the population of the golf. its producer is 0wen purnell. pollution that comes from the process can be extremely toxic to health. in ourfilm, it came out last year, we found that cancer, levels of cancer, were extremely high in the towns and villages surrounding the oil fields. in particular, leukaemia amongst children, reasonable leukaemia are very high but there are also other health effects that can be linked to the flares. high levels of respiratory disease, asthma, also high levels of heart disease and this is particular the bad in communities that live close to the gas flaring, between iraq and iran, there is 25% of the entire world gas flaring, so this population is extremely exposed to dangerous pollution that comes from that process. how far does it spread around the golf area?— how far does it spread around the golf area? what we found is the golf area? what we found is the pollution — the golf area? what we found is the pollution is _ the golf area? what we found is the pollution is spreading - the pollution is spreading hundreds of kilometres from the oil fields. hundreds of kilometres from the oilfields. the hundreds of kilometres from the oil fields. the scientists we work with took the data on the volumes of the flares, how much gas they are burning, and combine that with information on the exact types of pollutants which are being emitted and then also looked at whether data like weather patterns and found is pollution is being carried, sometimes for example in kuwait city, which is 140 kilometres south, they found dangerous levels of pm at 2.5 which is a type of pollution which can be linked to heart disease and lung disease. kuwait has one of the highest levels of heart disease, especially deaths from heart disease in under 70 is, in the world. it also has extremely high levels of asthma amongst children. the air quality in kuwait is very bad and what we found is that gas flaring is contributing to that. ~ ., flaring is contributing to that. ., ., flaring is contributing to that. ., i, ., that. what are the oil companies _ that. what are the oil companies that - that. what are the oil companies that are i that. what are the oil- companies that are actually responsible for the flaring, what are they say about it? the bi est what are they say about it? the biggest oil _ what are they say about it? tie: biggest oil field in what are they say about it? tue: biggest oil field in iraq which biggest oilfield in iraq which has the highest level of flaring in the world is partly run by bp, partly run by petro china, chinese oil company, and bp said they are helping the operator to reduce flaring emissions while petro china said they are supporting bp in doing this and are extremely concerned about the findings of our investigation. there is no denying that this is happening, that the levels of flaring are extremely high. 0ne that the levels of flaring are extremely high. one of the reasons for that is because we can see the flaring from space, so we have used satellite data to identify these very high levels of flaring.— to identify these very high levels of flaring. nobody is sa in: levels of flaring. nobody is saying it — levels of flaring. nobody is saying it is _ levels of flaring. nobody is saying it is not _ levels of flaring. nobody is saying it is not happening, | saying it is not happening, nobody is saying it is not because disease and problems? nobody is denying it is happening by us in the last ten years, there has been very little progress in iraq in reducing levels of flaring. we are also looking at other countries that are flaring, one of that being the uae, in the united arab emirates, they see that they are trying to cut out all gas flaring. they have a name to eliminate all routine flaring by 2030 and yet what we have found is they are flaring every day. what to the other oil companies say in the uae?— say in the uae? when we took the allegations _ say in the uae? when we took the allegations to _ say in the uae? when we took the allegations to add - say in the uae? when we took the allegations to add knocki the allegations to add knock they say they are focusing on eliminating routine flaring by 2030 and have a lower rate of flaring then the global industry average. the uae government did not comment on the allegations and neither did the allegations and neither did the cop28 team. the allegations and neither did the com team.— the allegations and neither did the cop28 team. because that is where cop28 _ the cop28 team. because that is where cop28 will _ the cop28 team. because that is where cop28 will be? _ the cop28 team. because that is where com will be? that - the cop28 team. because that is where cop28 will be? that is - where cop28 will be? that is riuht. where cop28 will be? that is right- we _ where cop28 will be? that is right. we will _ where cop28 will be? that is right. we will show _ where cop28 will be? that is right. we will show the - where cop28 will be? that is right. we will show the phil l right. we will show the phil cop28 and what it is showing is that the pollution that has been created from flaring is reaching dubai and essentially those people coming to cop28 are being affected from the pollution from the oil fields in the uae. so it will be really good to get some sort of comment on how they plan to phase out that practice. just about the — phase out that practice. just about the entire _ phase out that practice. just about the entire world is affected in one way or another by the movement of peoples. they had been riots in south africa over the years against migration from poorer parts of the african continent. europe, in north america, australasia have between them taken in millions of people from developing countries as the pressures of war and global warming get worse. mass immigration has a real advantages. it counters the falling birth rates of rich countries and it provides a workforce to do the kind of jobs which the established inhabitants do not want to do. it can also lead to much greater social tension. france, germany, austria, the netherlands, sweden, denmark in particular have been permanently changed by immigration and right wing parties and movements have become increasingly successful there. as a result, our centre—right party is shifting to accommodate the far right? the latest example is from the netherlands, where the outspokenly anti— islam politician while des has topped the poll. i spoke to katie adler for bbc europe editor. probably inadvertently one of his main rivals from the centre—right party said early on in the campaign that she would, she opened a door to making a coalition government with him and that really was the first in the meadowlands because of the more mainstream parties have consistently said —— netherlands said they would not go into politics with him because of his inflammatory views and talks and the fact that she did that had so often the image of his party. i think what also soften the image is if you look at all mainstream parties, what were they campaigning on? migration, migration, migration. that also helped bring him to the more mainstream.— helped bring him to the more mainstream. ~ ., ., , i, , , mainstream. what has happened in the netherlands _ mainstream. what has happened in the netherlands obviously - mainstream. what has happened in the netherlands obviously is i in the netherlands obviously is the response to the overall issue of immigration. but the issue of immigration. but the issue which affects most, if not every country in europe, hits them in different ways, doesn't it? i think we can look at a broad pattern at the moment. i think when it comes to the concerns about the cost of living, when it comes to migration, you can say that europe is moving to the right. you can really affect government policy outside of government policy outside of government and the netherlands is a very good case in point. mark roger who was the caretaker prime minister, prime ministerfor many years caretaker prime minister, prime minister for many years — caretaker prime minister, prime ministerfor many years — # water is someone from the centre—right. — # ruta, but under pressure from candidates, he is going further right on polici