Transcripts For CNNW The 20240702

with less than six weeks until the iowa caucuses four republican hopefuls not named trump try to set themselves apart. good evening from new york. >> hello from the spin room here on the campus of the university of alabama in tuscaloosa. site of the debate, 2024. it is wrapping up. chris christie, ron desantis, nikki haley and vivek ramaswamy once again the former president did not take part. nikki haley, who has been rising lately as a contender in some polls and in the eyes of some campaign watchers and certainly in the eyes of some big donors came in for -- she had a lot of criticism heading towards her tonight from desantis and ramaswamy. >> no doubt that. i know you will be speaking with some of the debaters tonight. look forward to that. pamela brown is checking the facts. gary has his focus group of voters in iowa. and our political panel here. first, a moment from the debate stage. a clash between chris christie a vivek ramaswamy with nikki haley it in the middle. >> you do this at every debate. don't interrupt me. you say this -- you do this -- you do this at every debate. you go out on the stump and say something. all of us see on video. we confront you on the debate stage. you say you didn't say it and then you back away. i want to say -- no i'm not done yet. look -- >> hold on, hold on. [ cheers and applause ] >> let me say something. this is the fourth debate, the fourth debate that you would be voted it in the first 20 minutes as the most objnoxious blow har in america. we are 25 minutes into the debate and he has insulted nikki haley's basic intelligence. not her positions. her basic intelligence. she wouldn't be able to find something on a map that his 3-year-old could find. look, if you want to disagree on issues, that's find and nikki and i disagree on some issue. i have known her 12 years, i which is longer than he even started to vote in the republican primary, and while we disagree about some issues and disagree about who should be president of the united states w we don't disagree in a smart accomplished woman. you should stop insulting her. >> first of all, think we just learned something from chris christie. we learned -- >> hold on, hole on, hold on. >> three thins right there. first of all, chris christie doesn't know what province in ian ukraine he wants to fight for. your version of foreign policy experience was closing a bridge from new jersey to new york. so do everybody a favor. just walk yourself up that stage, enjoy a meal and get the hell out of this race. >> one of several sharp clashes tonight. a a abby flips, van jones, kaitlan collins, david urban and scott jennings. more people than were actually in the debate itself. >> more people than watched the debate. >> yeah. >> i mean, i think with nikki haley we saw the perils of emerging successfully the last several debates. every single candidate was going after nikki haley pretty much the entire time. there were moments she was a little bit removed from the conversation. i think governor desantis actually had a stronger debate than several of the last debates. a lot of it was just arguing on stage between all of them and vivek ramaswamy yelling at points and then i think the most notable point was chris christie at the end saying picture election day and saying donald trump will not be voting that day because he is going to be a convicted felon. >> van? >> i thought like wonder woman fighting off like a whole mob of supervilleans. nikki haley had to defend herself every second of that debate performance. and she did well. she actually held up well. she was actually able to pull it off. and even when vivek said she didn't know the provinces, she knew the provinces. so, you know, nikki haley did a great job. i was proud of chris christie. he was a scholar and gentleman tonight. >> and i think nikki haley took a different strategy than we've seen from her. she actually kinda took a step back a little bit which really underscored the fact that she is the frontrunner in the race right now. she had lot coming at her. she didn't try to be in every moment. she had chris christie defending her. he probably did a better job defending her on the stage than doing anything necessarily for his own campaign. and in some ways i see why they pursued that strategy this time around because you don't need to respond to every single thing. and it just -- just the fact, the eagerness of ramaswamy to attack her proved to the voters and to the audience she is the one that they think that they have to beat and that's i think the message they were trying to send. >> nikki haley proved again she is a political heavyweight. sh has won all of ddebates. the moment that stood out to me when chris christie was a gentleman and jumped to defend her. he made a point to say we disagree on some things. somebody who has run his sole campaign on stopping donald trump and happened to lag in the polls, i could see a world which he ends up endorsing a nailt. he drew that contrast. the way he described her, the relationship, her credibility spoke as somebody who could end up backing her. >> governor chris christie was, i mean, kept pointing out time and time again i am the only one who said i would support donald trump if te was the nominee. making the candidates answer questions better than the moderators did. he was really forcing the issue. he did a great job tonight. unfortunately, his numbers haven't moved since day one. and when you sit back, we were talking about this earlier, from the first debate performance until today, the numbers really haven't moved. trump has been in the high 50s/low 60s. desantis 13, 14. nikki haley has kinda come up a bunch and vivek ramaswamy has dropped. crist a's kinda stayed the game. it's reshufrmg the deck chairs on the "titanic" a little bit on this side of the aisle. nikki haley had a solid performance and chris christie i think did very, very well. >> for the sake of this commentary, we will assume any of these people have a chance to beat donald trump. i think what we saw tonight i saw alliances forming tonight. for the first time we saw alliances. the pretrump gop christie and haley versus the post-trump gop, desantis and ramaswamy, teaming up to attack haley as you pointed out. christie came to haley's defense. that stuck out to me. i agree that the narrative here is going to be that haley was attacked. therefore, she must have momentum. desantis churns out solid republican conservative content on virtually every question. he didn't bobble a single question tonight. ramaswamy once again hurt himself just as he has ever single debate. the thing that really dawns on me is there is not room enough in iowa for haley and desantis and there is not room enough in new hampshire for haley and christie. if any of them hopes to get close to donald trump, will this field ever consolidate? it doesn't feel like it's going to. once again, fragmentation is donald trump's friend and, as you pointed out, since we started august 23rd he has gone from 55 to 61 in the national polling averages. it's hard to argue his strategy of sitting out is anything but genius. >> desantis isn't going anywhere. it's quickly becoming a race for number two between ron desantis and nikki haley. and there are a lot of important endorsements sitting on the sidelines. that doesn't mean what they used to, but governor sununu, he has outperformed donald trump in his home state. if he backs nikki haley that gives her momentum. if she rallies support in iowa that gives her momentum. she is head-to-head with ron desantis and chris christie does still poll about 5% in new hampshire. that's a bit of support she could pull off there. i think we are out a place it's head-to-head and there is a chance to take him on. >> i think today felt to me about a fight for momentum and i -- i think we have to give desantis some credit. he had a very strong debate. i mean, just in the last couple of days some of his people after that debate that he had with gavin newsom, they were really excited because he was sort of demonstrating a growth that they wanted to see from him. and i think it showed up tonight in a way that might help him. it has helped nikki haley to be on this debate stage and perform aggressively. it will be really important for desantis if he can take that momentum and push it forward because this is the moment. there is no more time left before iowa. like, this is the moment he has to show that there is going to be a surge going into iowa. otherwise, it's hard to see what the path is. >> good for him tonight. i don't think that it did. >> too little, too late, i think. >> the thing is, something about him is hard to like him. he comes out there. he lands all the points. he lands all the talking points. but there is -- his affect -- i hate to say it. this is petty and shallow, but his affect, he looks uncomfortable, doesn't like anybody there, doesn't like -- and it makes it hard for people to connect. i think people are -- there is a reason that he is, like, a bottle of soda losing the fizz. and he did not put the fizz back in the soda tonight. desantis. >> i will say i was talking to trump advisors, trump allies. they think it's a good -- he made a good move by not coming to any of the debates. >> right. >> which chris christie knocked him for. but politically speaking they think that he has come off fine. and as scott was entertaining, you know, this idea that anyone but trump has a chance. nikki haley, obviously, and what they were alluding to when it comes to trump's potential criminal issues is maybe holding out hope that that is something that ensnare him, trip him up. we don't know. the likelihood of that happening is anyone's guess. they seem to think it was a wise choice he didn't come, though i will say not only nikki haley, desantis also hitting trump tonight on the deficit. >> let's play that between chris christie and desantis about whether trump is fit for office. >> father time is undefeated. the idea that we are going to put someone up there almost 80 and there will be no effects from that, we know that's not true. and so we have an opportunity to do a next generation of leaders and really be able to move this country forward. we need a president to serve two terms. i don't think donald trump -- i don't think he could get elected. the democrats want him to be the nominee. if he got the -- >> do you think he is mentally fit to be president? >> i think we need somebody younger. >> answer the question. the question was very direct. is he fit to be president or isn't he? the rest of the speech is interesting, but completely nonresponsive. and if we were in a courtroom, they'd strike the answer and say, governor desantis -- >> no, they wouldn't. they'd say you're a smart man. >> no they wouldn't. >> you are not answering. if he fit -- >> you have your -- >> no, is he or isn't? he. >> i don't have my thing. is he fit -- >> you want to- d. >> you are talking about him being 80 years old. is he fit, ron, ron, ron? is he fit, ron? >> governor desantis -- >> ron, ron is he anytime -- >> i have an opportunity -- >> guys, guys, guys, no talking over each other. >> i am going to come to you. finish. >> look, father time is undefeated. i don't know how he would score on a test, but i know this. we have an opportunity to nominate someone and elect someone for two terms who is going to be spinning nails on day one and for eight years -- >> so you do think he is fit? >> we should not nominate somebody -- >> he won't answer. >> 80 years old. he is afraid to answer. >> no i'm not. >> you have to -- >> no. >> either you're afraid or not listening -- >> no, it's not. >> hey, hey! >> and dana bash with governor christie. >> reporter: thanks, anderson. thank you for being here. as we were watching that moment, i was saying to you almost as if you were the fourth moderator in that debate. >> well, it's not a role i want to play. i am sick and tired of being at these debates and watching the other three folks on the stage not willing to answer the questions. the voters who are watching deserve to hear an answer. especially on something like that. ron's trying to play both sides to the middle. so is nikki. they don't want to offend anyone. you have no business being the president of the united states if you don't have the principles to stand up for what you believe if even if it might offend people and might boo you which i got tonight and i don't care. >> you got it lot every im it too you mention trump's name. >> you know what they are booing? the truth because they are in denial. he is going to be convicted felon come this spring. and what i said in my closing statement is absolutely true. he will be a candidate if he is our nominee who won't be able to vote for himself. why would anybody else vote for him? >> you mentioned nikki haley. i want to play a part of you coming to her defense pretty aggressively in this debate. >> he has insulted nikki haley's basic intelligence. not her positions. her basic intelligence. if you want to disagree on issues, that's fine. and nikki and i disagree on some issues. i'll tell you. >> this i have known her 12 years, which is longer than he has even start today vote in a republican primary -- [ laughter ] >> and while we disagree with issues and disagree about who should be president of the united states, we don't disagree that this is a smart accomplishment woman. you should stop insulting her. >> where did that come from? >> mine, look, i'm a truth teller, dana. nikki and i disagree. i don't think she should be president of the united states. she is a smart woman and an accomplished woman and worked incredibly hard both in south carolina and in the u.n. and i think that vivek has a woman problem. i do think he insults women's basic intelligence. he has done it over and over and over again. and i guess gh had had enough. i had enough of listening to his garbage. as i said, his smartass harvard mouth. that's what it is. when he is dictating to me and nikki haley who committed ourselves to public service while he has been off stealing from seniors to make his fortune, yeah, i am not going to put up with anymore. >> you call yourself truth he will ter. you are also a savvy politician. >> thank you. >> the wind-up there is about new hampshire and it was very interesting to watch you and nikki haley -- certainly you said you disagree about a lot of things. seemed like you were forming a bit of an alliance with her. >> no. >> in a place like -- no? >> no. look, i am a truth teller, dana. and i am going to tell the truth. if someone is insulting nikki haley in a way that was personal. it was nothing about issues. he said she is not smart enough to know where things on the map, that his 3-year-old son is smarter than a woman who served as a two-term governor and u.n. ambassador. he is a jack ass. it's not me forming an alliance with nikki haley. wait until you see the next search weeks. >> what's gonna happen? >> we will be competing against each other hard to win new hampshire, i suspect. and i have a lot of -- look, i've said tonight she is unwilling to take on donald trump. she didn't do it again tonight. she is not willing to say he is unfit. she not willing to lower that hand she raised it in august to say even if he was a convicted felon she would support him. we should have a higher standard and she fails on that front. but you know, at the end of the day, if someone is unfair to somebody else who i had a 12-year relationship with, i am not going to let him beat her up. the moderators didn't step in and ask for any decorum. whether it was vie rec or ron, fight with the guy from jersey. you know what that's like. >> i do. i think she also -- well, i want to ask when -- more about donald trump. and the fact that you said multiple times, as you said since the beginning of your candidacy, that they are not going after the big person in the race, the person who is far and away the frontrunner. let's listen to part of that rkz. >> so do i think he was kidding? when he said he was a dictator? look at the history. and that's why failing to speak out against him making excuses for him, pretending that somehow he is a victim empowers him. you want to know what the poll numbers are where they are? folks like these three dguys on the stage make it seem like his conduct is acceptable. it's unacceptable. he is unfit. >> that is kind of your mantra on this -- >> one of them. >> one of the mantras on this campaign. obviously, you had an opportunity to do it to your three remaining opponents on the stage there. do you really think that they are going to all of of a sudden start to go after donald trump? >> if they want to win, they better. because look at the strategy they have been pursuing. the strategy they have been pursuing is consigned to failure. i know because i did the same thing eight years ago. i ignored him. so did jeb bush, so did john kasich, and with when -- and marco rubio. you know what happened? we all lost. we lost because we wouldn't calm him out on the fact that he was never going to get mexico to pay for a wall, balance the budget in four years, his muslim ban garbage. hope is not strategy. and that's why ron desantis has gone from the mid-30s to single digits. that's why nikki haley is 30 points behind him in her home state. i am telling you this. people are going to wake up, wake up to this message. when they do there is one person on the stage telling the truth and it was me. >> you, obviously, now what you wanted to accomplish tonight. did anything on that stage, any comment from any of your opponents surprise you? >> no. it's the same stuff over and over again. ron desantis has memorized answers. nikki haley trying to have it both ways. and vivek, who is the drunk driver of the debate stage. you never know who he is going or what he is going to hit. so, no, nothing surprised me. >> anything you didn't get to? >> yeah. i think, look, i didn't get to bach about the border. which i really would have liked to have had an opportunity to do. and there were two questions right at the end i think the second segment they went to the other three and never dame to me. we got time. i got a sense there will be more daines after the first of the year, hopefully in iowa and new hampshire, and also i think there is plenty of time for me as i'm campaigning to continue to emphasize those points. those are the things that i didn't get to because they didn't give me a chance. as you saw tonight, in they would have asked, i would have answered. >> yes, i definitely know that. governor, thank you so much. >> thanks for the time. thanks for being here in tuscaloosa, roll tide. >> kaitlan collins, that's for you. >> drunk driver on the debate stage. i think that is -- >> that's the best line of the night. >> christie for the first time in this debate season felt -- it seemed like he felt comfortable. maybe the smaller stage benefitted him. for the audience he is trying to appeal to in new hampshire, his attitude, that straight talk kind of thing went after desantis a little bit on the trump stuff, defended haley, he was funny there. he helped himself tonight. now, he is not going to help himself in the national polls. but the narrow thinking he has to get done is independents and democrats in new hampshire casting an anti-trump vote. haley and him being in the race together at the same time in new hampshire trying to take on trump is problematic. i thought this might have been christie's best night so far. >> my question is what women sh thought of the debate. nikki haley used that to her advantage. she was getting a lot of the attention from the fellas, as she put it. you hear chris christie there telling dana he thinks vivek ramaswamy has a woman problem because he was going after her not just over policy, about but insulting her, tell her she couldn't find those places on a map. reminded me of secretary pompeo when he was secretary of state. if you listen to the debate tonight, there was nothing on abortion that i heard or any of the -- that topic that was such an energizing issue we saw in november. i know it's a republican primary debate but this is something that even republican women voters care about as well and we didn't hear any of these candidates talk about. >> i thought the audience -- i was a little surprised by this. but the audience booed ramaswamy multiple times. cheered christie defending haley. it was clear where the audience ended up on some of these more contentious exchanges, especially the ones where basically ramaswamy was attacking haley for, you know, identity politics, saying show does it better than kamala harris. so if that's any indication, i s assume these are republicans in the audience, that's not really a good sign for how those kinds of attacks against nikki haley would play not just with women, but just with republican voters in general. maybe they don't agree with everything that she said, but it seems like they didn't take well to the say the attacks -- >> i don't think they thought they were fair. they are also coming from someone who they don't like, and who has time and again proven himself to be a charlatan on a number -- i mean, tonight. he was asked about january 6th. he basically said it was an inside job. >> he did say that. take out "basically." >> in his book he said january 6th was a deplorable and disgraceful assault on our democratic process by misguided writers. tonight it's an inside job. how many issues have we discussed he has done that and people -- by now the republicans know it. if you are going to level attacks the way he is doing it, which by the way he is taking cues from trump. he called her -- what did trump call her? bird brain. he is trying to, like, do that. they novi vek is a fraud and charlatan. when you level those attacks, they don't like it. christie had a good moment defending. >> he was totally alone whether it came to an important issue, israel and what he would do as president when it came to rescuing the american hostages. that was a notable part of the debate. he was isolated the rest of the three of them stood on what their response would look like. >> the way the debates have gone on, it shows the shallowness of vivek ramaswamy. he was asked about arming the taiwanese people. it was pointed out that's against their own constitution. so an unseriousness there. >> we will take a break. a fact check on the line that scott was talking about, the january 6th that scott mentioned when our special debate night coverage continues in a moment. the power goes out and we still have wifi to do our homework. and that's a good thing? great in my book! who are you? no power? no problem. introducing storm-ready wifi. now you can stay reliably connected through power outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery back-up to keep you online. only from xfinity. home of the xfinity 10g network. as always the candidates made plenty of promises about what they'd do as president and plenty of claims about hair records or opponents's records, their other take on decisive moments for the country including january 6th. pamela brown with a fact check on that. >> yeah, entrepreneur vivek ramaswamy has a history of pedaling disinformation about january 6th and his rant tonight against the so-called deep state spark. ipos is the latest example. here's what he said. >> why am i the only person on this stage at least who can say that january 6th does -- was an inside job? that the government lied to us for 20 years about saudi arabia's involvement 9/11, the great replacement theory is not a grand right-wing conspiracy theory but a statement of the democratic party's platform, that the 2020 elections stolen by big tech? that the 2016 election, the one that trump won for sure, was also one that was stolen by the national security establishment -- >> okay, thank you. >> all right. that rant consists of debunked conspiracy theories. on the claim that january 6th insurrection was an inside job, this is a flat out lie that is detached from reality and unsupported by concrete evidence. this false and self-serving narrative from trump supporters came about in the summer of 2021 from right wring news outlets claiming the u.s. government orchestrated the u.s. capitol attack and september undercover fbi agents to trigger violence as a way to frame trump. the fbi director, a republican appointed by former president trump, has repeatedly rejected that claim and it's worth remembering about 850 rioters have been convicted of crimes stemming from january 6th according to the justice department. most of them pleaded guilty and many acknowledge they were at the capitol because they supported trump. none of the people convicted were active fbi agents. anderson. >> thank you. more with you throughout the night. before the break, we heard chris christie going after donald trump and nikki haley did take a dig at the former president. >> this is where trump wept wrong. trump was good on trade, but that's all he was with china. because here he allowed fentanyl to continue to come over. he continued to allow them to take -- he would give them technology that would build up their military and hurt us. he allowed the chinese infiltration for them it buy up farmland to put money in our universities and to continue to do things harmful for america. we now have a -- >> thank you. >> and police stations and trump didn't do anything about it. >> how much tougher has nikki haley gotten on the former president than she was earlier? >> from policy perspective she has leaned into going after him. hit him on not securing the border. ron desantis also. the candidates feel like they can go after policy but other than chris christie another is touching the question of fitness. while i think ron desantis actually had his best performance yet, he looked weak when chris christie had to jump in and moderate and say just answer the question. is donald trump fit or unfit? made him look not ready for leadership. >> i mean, we talked about this earlier. i think at the end of the day donald trump was the winner tonight again, right? this is debate number what is it? five, four, three? i lost track, right. each time we try to pick winners and losers of the debates and the guy on the stage who was not on the stage is the winner each time. because nobody advanced the ball. the numbers as scott talked about, right, talked about earlier, numbers don't move. they haven't moved one bit. they are all jockeying who is going to be second and third. the big debate is who is greg to come in second and third in iowa. squho going to come in second and third in nuchls and second and third -- what? to take it to super tuesday maybe? where is the money coming from? how is it gonna work? >> the play for momentum. if you are haley, you are presumed to be behind desantis in iowa. what if you jump into second place at the last minute and slingshot that over to new hampshire and you convince -- you know, it's all sort of a play to build momentum. but it 's like the old commercials. off the backboard, off bleachers, off the ceiling -- >> a game of horse. >> it would take that kind of a shot -- >> when is the money coming? >> something is going to come down the pipeline to take donald trump out. and that -- the calendar doesn't show us that's gonna happen. that's what i'm struck by in entire primary process is that no one other than chris christie is directly going after trump's fitness because he will at this juncture likely be the nominee statistically. >> absolutely. >> he is going to be the nominee. tell me now -- >> how long with a nikki haley and ron desantis given the financial backing stay in? >> if desantis come close to trump in iowa or finishes third or is 20 -- i don't know how you move forward because he is not gonna do as well in new hampshire. haley's the one trying for the slingshot. i think the desantis strategy has to be get within range at least of trump in iowa and then you make an argument to move forward as the one opponent. but for him it's iowa. for haley and christie, it's really more new hampshire. and for christie, if this is the last debate, you know, december 6th, new hampshire's january 23. we have a long way to go. i wonder for his strategy how is he going to stay fresh and in the news and have moments where he can keep a little momentum going out there. >> i don't think the issue for haley -- maybe even desantis. i don't think money is the issue. i think the donors are ready to move on from trump. they are backing haley. they are backing desantis. the issue is -- remains, as has always been, the voters. the voters are not ready to move on and that's ultimately going to be the problem. i mean, what we've seen over the last few weeks with the, you know, the jamie dimons of the world and black rocks of the world, which was a huge topic of discussion tonight, consolidating behind haley is there are people with deep pockets who are willing to be there. but there is a disconnect. there has been since 2016. there is a disconnect between the elite, the elites, the money class, and the voters, and until that changes, we're not talking about anything -- >> it works against you, right? >> right. >> if you get the money -- this is -- i can't remember who they'd this point. vivek makes the point, like, great, take the money because that's -- you're exactly the person we don't want. >> and i think that was an important development no terms of trying to punish nikki haley for being successful. nikki haley is climbing. she is rising. she can handle all these attacks. and now the donors are moving towards her. the people falling, collapsing, who are failing try to turn that strength into a weakness. so you saw vivek you are now corrupt. you are corrupt. >> beholden. >> now, obviously, none of those people would turn down those checks. but part of why this is important, you say, why is the debate important if trump's gonna win anyway? you are shaping the future of this party tonight. you are shaping the landscape of debate. if you begin to say anybody who can get support from respectable quarters is suspect, anybody who can get support from successful business people is suspect, you saw a switch now where a desantis was essentially saying i'm going to use the power of the government against corporations. that used to be the liberals. they would say we are going to use the government and the conservatives were saying we are for enterprise and corporations. >> push back in that regard. >> but that side of the table -- to your point, that side -- those two allies were trying to make -- turn the victory, the success, the rise, the consolidation of knikki's suppo against her. that's bad sign. you are saying you are going to be an antiestablishment party even when corporation supports some of your best leaders. >> it's a tngs of this moving away of corporate america, the republicans towards a more, you know, populous working class party. two of the biggest flows i think right now could be this movement away from corporate america, but also what are jewish americans doing right now? they voted 70% for joe biden in the last election. i have a feeling they are looking at the world and maybe saying we might be headed back the other way towards a republican party even as some college educated suburban people flow away. the point is, we may -- >> depends what college you went to. >> yeah, right. we may be living through tectonic shifts in the collations of the two parties. it happens every 100 years or so. we may be right now, how it's going to man nest a year from now, i don't know. it strikes me the conditions are in place to cause really massive flows here. >> in the northeast we said that a long time ago. i used to work for arlen specter. he was a northeast republicans. how many exist anymore? look in the congress. look in the senate. they don't exist. it started a while ago and you continue to see that trend, right? the country club kind of liberals who used to be republicans have switched to the democratic party and the working-class people from pittsburgh that i grew up with who were democrats are now republicans. that's been taking place over time. >> and that's why the debates matter because trump's not on the stage but trump is. and you see how it's shifting and shaping. i don't think it's a completely ruled out that a nikki haley or ron desantis would serve in a trump administration. it's not clear to me. vivek ramaswamy said that he won't. i mean -- >> yeah, well. >> his job on the -- >> he has a lot to offer though. >> he is already serving in it. >> there is an exchange between haley and desantis i want to talk about, about china, which also involved donors. let's lessen. >> this is rich because when she was governor of south carolina she was the number one ranked governor of bringing the ccp into her state. she wrote a love letter to the chinese ambassador saying how great a friend china is. we put it on our website, ron desantis.com. there is a video of her as governor standing it in front of a chinese flag with a chinese business saying that she now works for them, talking about this chinese company. so she has been very weak on china. here is the problem. the rhetoric is different, but the -- her donors, these wall street liberal donors, make money in china. they are not going let her be tough on china and she will cave to the donors. she will not stand up for you. >> 15 seconds, ambassador. >> first of all, he is mad because those wall street donors used to support him and now they support me. the second thing is, he has a company, a chinese company, u gas, they have given you 340,000 in campaign -- >> an american company. >> between them and their employees. they are tied to the -- >> it's an american company. >> it's another one. they went and expanded. two million in subsidies. >> i banned china from buying land in the state of florida. nikki haley brought con fushis institutes to the universities in south carolina. >> that's not true. >> i have a record of standing up and doing what's right. >> you have a record of lying. >> she is trying to say things like that. even the liberal media groups -- usually if i say the sky is blue they fact check me and say that that's wrong. they said it's false. they couldn't find an instance of me recruiting a chinese business coming to florida. >> to me this was putting the substance aside for a second, just that -- those dynamics there, this was an example of haley creceding in a way i don' think helped her. in the last debate they had a huge blowup. haley, desantis, and ramaswamy over china. and she was really in the mix. i think desantis did well there and really kind of outshined her. >> why do you think she was receding? >> honestly, hard to say. it's hard to say. look, some of the stuff is really in the weeds. i heard them talk about this stuff multiple times. it is unclear to me what the point is of all of this and what it has to do with actual united states policy towards china. they are trying to signal toughness by saying we are going to kick china out of the united states, it's not really linked to real policy. however, when it comes to signaling to the republican base on china, i think desantis did a better job than haley. >> that exchange fell flat to me on both ends because while china matters, it's our, you know, biggest geopolitical adversary, no one tied it back to why it matters for the average voters. i was waiting. how does this affect you? i think it was implicitly they are in china's pocket but naming institutes that the average american wouldn't know of and it was stunning considering how long that went on and then the major policy areas that weren't touched including abortion. >> yeah. >> she -- both of them felt contrived. it just feels like normal campaign at this time far tat. she was going through her recitation on the college antisemitism we were seeing. and we got to ban tiktok. when republican voters hear that, that's a message about china as much as anything. >> saying it versus doing it is one thing. donald trump was president, he said he was banning it and -- >> it's still around. >> they said they were going to ban it and completely dropped the issue. >> chris christie brought up a good point on china which made sense i think to voters in the audience watching at home haley praised trump's trade policy on china and asked her why she thought it was a good policy talking about the only thing trump did on china that was tough put the tariffs on chinese goods that, obviously, raised prices for americans. >> everybody stay right there. gary tuchman next with voters in iowa and shortly vivek ramaswamy joins dana. ♪ and welcome to our post-debate analysis. knowing what voters in new hampshire matters, he has been for four debates, gary tuchman in iowa for us. gary. >> anderson, you're right. 40 days left until the first in the nation iowa caucuses. we have come back to iowa for the fourth time in the last three and a half months specifically the same place, storey county, iowa. we want to talk to loyal republicans after each and every debate to see if things have changed regarding the perceptions of the candidates or things have stayed the same. it is wonderful to be back with our friends from storey county. good to see all of you. first thing, the three other debates that were here, the first debate this group said ramaswamy sdid the best. the second desantis, third debate haley. looks like we are going to break the tie unless you pick christie. there is some laughter there. maybe not christie. i haven't asked them yet who they thought won this debate. we are going it find out together for the first time. so i'm going to ask, who thinks christie won the debate? zero of the eight. who thinks desantis won the debate? one of the eight. who thinks haley won the debate? one, two, three, four, five, six. who thinks ramaswamy won the debate? zero. one person didn't vote. that's jim in the upper left. how come you're not voting? >> i think trump kwon. >> you think he won because he wasn't here? >> that's right. it looked so orchestrated and so chaotic. >> well, either way, we have six people here who have picked haley. that's the second time haley won. commanding victory this time. let me ask why you think haley won. the mayor. why do you think haley won? >> clearly, she has been the one with the momentum. so i expected her to take a lot of hits tonight. the debate started with them coming after her and i think she handled it really well. i think she also just is strong on policy and she just is strong in these debates and i think th that has been a consistent part of her momentum. >> judy? >> i agree with prbrett. she had to dodge a lot of bullets tonight and she stood up to each one of them. >> what do you think? >> i think people shoot arrows at the people that are winning. i think she is winning. >> trey? >> i think that every hit that she took, she had a response back, and one of the big things was being on the board. and i don't care she was on the bowing board. i don't care. she has great experience in foreign policy and domestic policy? >> meghan? >> i think everyone was after her in the debate and i think she handled it with grace and charisma and was the most level-headed and stuck to her guns and i think she explained factually why she believed everything and stayed steady. >> jeff, weihat's your opinion? >> like everybody else, she weathered the storm. it was, obviously, everyone coming after her. she has an edge on the polls at least of that group. -- so, she has got that legislative experience there, working with legislators in south carolina. so, i think she shined among them all. >> okay. you said, like everyone else, but we do have someone in the front, row deborah, who says desantis won. why do you think that desantis one? >> -- executive experience and a record of winning. that's going to be the most important thing in a primary, and then in a general election. we have to beat joe biden. that's the most important imperative that we need to get done. and i think desantis is the best one to get us there, and he is convincing us with policy and a record and that is what is convincing to me. >> do all of you agree that you have to beat joe biden? >> absolutely. >> okay, no one's thinking of voting democrat here. >> no. >> you never know. in this world, you have the choice of doing whatever you want. i do want to play on something, which is that most of the people here, we have seen in your county, in the last three and a half months, or undecided about who they caucus for on january 15th. most of you are undecided. i want to know, out of the eighth of, you how many of you have made a decision about julio calk's for. please raise your hand if you have. so, four of you have now decided. i know, jim -- i know your answer has been trump because you just said you thought he won the debate. from day when you were a trump man and nothing change your mind? >> no. >> and tell me why nothing is change your mind. >> because he has demonstrated. he doesn't say, well, i do this in florida. when i was governor -- when he was president, he's done it. he's made the tough decisions. we didn't have a war. and we have a good economy. and i'm a farmer. and so, i liked his policies. >> okay. who have you decided to caucus for? >> caucusing for nikki haley. >> why did you decide on? nikki haley? >> like just said, she should say -- on policy in general and -- deborah -- really important. we have someone who run strong in second place an all the early states and is in a really good position in the primary, but would also beat joe biden by the largest margins in every poll we have seen. she would really bring together a coalition that would have reagan-esque type margins that we haven't seen in 40 years as a party. >> you have not desantis won the debate. is that who you are going to caucus for? >> yes. >> and have you decided that based on his debate performance? >> probably more on his record and his interactions with voters i have seen personally. i think he is doing well, actually. when he interacts, personally, with voters. >> what we need to do -- ramaswamy is about to talk to anderson cooper. so, i could ask you guys about an hour's worth of questions, but i have to go back to the studio. now anderson, you hear what is happening, nikki haley has won her second debate in a row, according to this group. >> -- gary, thank you, and thank them for. us i want to go to dana, who is standing by with vivek ramaswamy. >> thanks, anderson. thank you so much for being here. first, you are listening to some of that. one person said donald trump won. >> yeah. >> others were kind of in favor who the woman you went after pretty hard, nikki haley. >> i think there's a deep ideological divide in the gop, but one of the things i see coming up in the iowa caucus, if we are right about this, this is actually going to change the dynamic of this race, as many of my voters, many of the people coming to our events -- and if you look at our events it does not match the mainstream media narrative of what you are hearing about him in terms of just the sheer numbers we are drawing -- our younger people, people who have never been in a caucus before. there are people who are not polled. many of them have ron paul shorts or otherwise when they show up. if those people come to our caucus, come to congress on january 15th, we are going to deliver a major shock to the system. and a lot of those people do want to see somebody who is going to be unvarnished, unshackled, and i think that is who i am and that is what the voters want, we are going to give -- >> -- the debate on our viewers -- >> sure. >> some of what you did on the debate stage. >> sure. >> chris, your version of foreign policy experience was closing a bridge from new jersey to new york. so, do everybody a favor, just walk yourself off that stage, enjoy a nice meal, and get the heck out of this race. the only person more fascist than the biden regime now is nikki haley, who thinks the government should identify every one of those individuals with an i.d.. that is not freedom. that is fascism. and she should come nowhere near the levers of power, let alone the white house. nikki is corrupt! >> that nikki is corrupt there, we saw you come in at the beginning of the debate, and with your sharpie, write something with very big letters on that pad. and then we saw what it was. but that, plus the rest of what we played and much, much more that we did not have time to play, you were really aggressive, back to how you were a couple of debates ago. and i guess a couple of debates -- with a form of leadership people are looking for right now? >> i think one of my policies that goes beyond corruption in -- and then joining the board of pfizer, whether you're doing special deals with boeing for years as governor south carolina only to go join their board. afterwards use their connections to start military -- financial incentives. i'm very critical of biden and the hunter biden payments that were allegedly made an otherwise. well, i can't apply that standard to the democrats if we are not applying it at home in our own party as. well and so for me it is going to take people, at least from the outside, who are not captured by the same interest. i think it is telling that read hoffman, one of the largest donors to pro democratic all assess, to the efforts to keep trump off the ballot, is now a quarter million dollar -- nikki haley. i think that's evidence of the kind of financial corruption that has not been exposed. and i think the media has been playing with kid gloves on nikki haley, which is helping her. there's reasons for that. but i do think that that's fundamentally a job to expose in an open debate for the american people. >> one person that you did not touch at all with kid gloves or otherwise is ron desantis. why is that? do you have some kind of -- >> i don't know if -- >> -- alliance? >> i wouldn't say so. i would say that -- probably -- you saw the debate. so, whether it was this debate or -- >> -- >> it was definitely not intentional. but i think i've gone after him plenty for some of our disagreements. take our disagreements on free speech. he believes that we should actually banned students for justice on palestine in campuses. i've been very open. i don't remember of that was the last debate, certainly, my other comments or otherwise, drawing plenty of policy -- with ron desantis. but i was responding to the questions as they were asked. but ron -- i did say he was a good governor. and -- i think he could be a attorney good attorney general -- somebody like that could be a reasonable candidate. but -- playing nice with ron. >> you said you three rivals on the stage -- but you also said that you would -- felon. is that by definition, looking his boots? >> no, i'm -- monday morning quarterbacking someone decision he. made that santos is picked for his death endorsement was reading is -- a book about donald trump and put that on tv. nikki haley, not that much different story, even chris christie, the reinvention is fascinating. a guy who is helping trump with his debate prep all the way to even lobbying him for -- >> he said -- >> look -- i think -- what that's a narrative that does not match much of what he said on the debate stage. but -- for political convenience -- comment on it. my view is this on him, i actually have not been doing -- i haven't even been in politics. i've been building businesses. but i do think, on principle, many of those prosecutions, all of those prosecutors, have read the indictments. i don't believe it's appropriate to use novel legal theories that have government tested in the first and prosecution, many of which, i think if you read through them, they are absolutely politically motivated and we don't have to do that here. but start with the new york one. you could've argued the election law see the way. they could have got him -- i don't think it's a good precedent and so that's why i am a little bit different than the other candidates and being vocal about the fact that i would pardon him if i'm elected. and i stand by that. >> there was another moment i want to play for our viewers where you went full conspiracy theory and endorsing a lot of conspiracy theories. i want you to listen. >> if you want somebody who is going to speak truth to power, than vote for somebody who is going to speak the truth to you. why am i the only person on the stage, at least, who can say that january 6th now does look like it was an inside job? that the government lied to us for 20 years about saudi arabia's involvement in 9/11? [applause] that the great replacement theory is not some grand right wing conspiracy theory, but a basic statement of the democratic party's platform, that the 2020 election was indeed stolen by big tech. >> let's just take two of those. let's start with january 6th. >> sure. >> there is no evidence that it is an inside job. it was a fringe conspiracy theory that the trump appointed fbi director christopher wray has said explicitly over and over is just not true. >> so, let me -- the opportunity to address it. i wasn't anti-woke procedure leading the business world and if you ask me -- january six was an inside job, i would have said that that was crazy. i would say looking at the facts of video footage that have been coming out, yeah, it has been shockingly still have not gotten a clear answer on how many federal agents were in the field that day. look at how the video footage of actually throwing explosives and rubber bullets into what was a peaceful crowd, and then released into the public what came in response to that. but now look at the video footage that was released. and i'm glad we are talking about. because viewers deserve to look at that footage. capitol police literally letting people in who were then now prosecuted, and some of them had gone on to commit suicide because of what the government is doing. that's a case of entrapment. and i think the government has not been transparent about this, which is why then brought up another case where the government, now 20 years later, with the classified documents, tells us that they lied to us at the time. which -- >> -- the people. >> -- consistently lied to its people. >> inside job suggest that everybody who attacked the capitol was -- >> i didn't say. that i didn't say that. but i was saying that there's been entrapment going on. there's entrapment going on. and it looks like a case of entrapment. and if you -- >> what do you mean by entrapment? >> entrapment means that the police go to people to get them to do something that they otherwise would not have done and -- >> -- the former president -- >> -- media narrative -- look at -- actually -- see what you think about this, right? even if i said this for a long -- gretchen whitmer kidnapping plot, suddenly got silent that after comes out at trial, that absolutely was a case of entrapment -- i'm saying this, as somebody, on the other side of this, as a biotech ceo, somebody who is even anti-woke, what if i had looked at this, i would've said a lot of this was crazy talk. but i think when you actually get into the details, i think it is startling at how much the government has consistently lied and i think it's both parties over the last course of the last 25 years -- >> but on the january 6th -- >> skeptical -- now it's the right. >> -- most aggressive, offensive attack on the u.s. capitol and on democracy itself that we have seen in our lifetime and in many, many lifetimes, to say without evidence, that it was an inside -- >> i'm not saying it without evidence. i think that what we are seeing now is the video footage that has come. out i was in a different place before a lot of the evidence that came out. but you have to respond to the evidence? what is your response? what is anybody else on cnn's response to the video footage that was released, literally to the capitol? police just -- or shooting into peaceful crowds -- >> what we know -- convicted of crimes -- >> but the reality is many of them were convicted for that information was released because -- >> -- >> i'm glad you -- dana -- you are bringing up a really good point, and the audience and everybody deserves to know the truth about this. normally, there is the rule. in constitutional lights. called the brady rule. you have to turn over exculpatory evidence that the other side. and in this case it was not turned over because the doj said congress was sitting on it -- >> okay -- >> -- congress -- released it. that's why i would pardoning those peaceful protesters because -- >> -- >> it's not a left or right issue. i think this is a civil libertarian issue and -- >> -- i want to get to something else that you said that i think is really important to explore. that is the great replacement theory? >> yeah? >> that, i am sure you know, is a theory that has been adopted by white supremacists who believe that people of color,, are trying to overtake the white people in america. it has been used in mass murderers from -- not even just america -- >> -- a lot of different things. but i will be very specific about what i -- because i posted this yesterday before this debate. i've been very fortunate would encourage people to look at ten hard truths i posted yesterday including that video footage from jan sixth in our last discussion and people should view. a look at the video i posted of biden and mayorkas, ten years ago -- and these are biden's words, not mine, about nonwhite populations exceeding white -- populations in the u.s. and that not being a bad thing, his words, not mine -- >> but when you use the -- term >> -- >> but when you use the term great replacement theory -- >> that is exactly what that refers to. >> but you understand that that term is something that -- >> it is literally -- >> evokes antisemitism -- >> i'm against antisemitism, and i've spoken out against it -- >> all right -- >> but this is coming through -- >> but this is being used -- >> ten years ago -- >> used for -- killings in buffalo -- >> the same things that biden said ten years ago -- >> -- it's not even just a conspiracy theory, it's dangerous. >> i disagree. >> it's helping to incite violence. >> look, i think if we have more open dialogue in this country -- >> -- and discrimination. >> that's when they scream. >> if you tell people they can't scream or object -- that's when they turn. >> -- >> we don't want to see violence in this country. i think the way we are going to get there is post gap between what people say in private and what they say in public. right now there's a gap between those two things that is as big as i've seen in my lifetime. i think that is dangerous. i think that is a good way to get january 6th -- a preview of what is to come in this country unless we are able to have open conversation -- >> and it's not -- when people hear great -- >> racist conspiracy -- >> dog whistle -- >> -- >> because of what it means to -- >> kristallnacht -- of immigrants, i'm proud of -- leader of the democratic party now, and as recently as ten years ago, with mayorkas at his side, expressly talking about -- exceeding nonwhite populations, that being a good thing, and then -- advance to achieve their result. remain in mexico, which they are not enforcing, let's have that debate rather than saying this is a dog whistle and this is going to cause violence. what i am worried about is that we are going to have, i would say, and i want to be careful in the way i want to speak about, is because i don't want to get to a place of violence. we are skating on thin ice is a country right now. but as a leader, it is important to, give people the permission to say in public what they will otherwise say in private, and a lot of it is grounded in truth, to be able to have that debate. >> let me ask you that one question -- >> a racist, is enough, overlie or anything else -- >> i'm not going to use the turn anymore because it is a dog whistle for people out there who are looking for reasons to go after people of color, and. but -- >> let's agree to disagree on -- >> let's just assume that was something that was happening. is that so wrong? >> what's so wrong with people of color? >> let me just pause right there. let me just pause right there. this is a legitimate discussion for us to have! but we can't have it both ways to say that this is something that we are actually advocating for, it's an expressed policy, and we acknowledge that it is part of an expressed policy objective, and then let's actually get to the debate about whether this is border but not for the country. right? and so, i embrace that. but thank you for getting to a useful place rather than just saying anybody who is saying this and a person on the right says it's a conspiracy theory, if a democrat says its immigration policy. in my view, i don't care about skin color. i could care less -- >> -- the will not replace us, comes from the great replacement theory. i know you have to go. but just go back and look at that one and think about -- >> i would say go back and look at -- the videos mike johnson has released of the videos of capitol police letting them in, we should at least be able to -- enter the video of biden saying what otherwise is described -- with mayorkas ten years ago. we can have an honest debate. we can disagree. but don't label somebody an insurrectionist or a racist or a homophobic or deny or anything else as a way of silencing debate. we should talk about it on the merits and that last question you asked is exactly what many republicans also want to be debating in the open with -- >> i agree. merits, facts, that's what we need to be doing. >> amen. so, show the video, i think it will be good for the viewers. >> thank. you anderson -- >> appreciate it. >> back to you -- >> -- there's a lot to unpack. >> none of these debates have helped ramaswamy. when he started the debate season he was at seven. today, he sits at maybe four. he has gone down after each one. >> the more people get to know in, the last day. like >> now showing up for the debates would have been a great idea. because that no one would know what they know about him. now he really -- there's only two people on that stage that have even some percentage chance of taking on donald trump. everybody knows it. it is desantis, and it is nikki haley. and yes, kristie is running in new hampshire, on a focused campaign. but if you are going to get down to one of the, other the amount of time he takes up, tying up the stage, it obviously helps trump. because -- >> -- >> we don't get down to the -- >> -- hertz the country, though. -- >> dangerous. that's dangerous. when those people were saying will not replace, as will not replace, is that slogan sits on the top of the very sick and twisted view that if you bring enough people of color, here we are so deficient, we are so stupid, we are so unwanted, that we will be zombies to spell out the ranks for some democratic party agenda, that jewish people are manipulating and driving forward -- it is wrong. and the smog, condescending way that he just views this poison out is very, very dangerous. because he won't stop trump. but he is going to outlive trump by about 50 years. and you are watching the rise odom phone american demagogue that is a very, very despicable person. and literally, i was shaking listen listening him to -- a lot of people don't know that is one step away from not the propaganda coming out of his mouth. >> but the good thing, van jones, you can take respite in, is the more -- catches pointed out, the numbers -- his numbers continue to plummet. i guarantee, after this debate, his numbers will continue to go down. the more people hear him -- i think, look i, think from your perspective, it's better than -- vivek ramaswamy talks more a moe will hear what he has to say and rejected more and more. >> but i will say -- >> it's incredible. >> i do think he did more damage himself than anyone he went after tonight. and to your point, and i've heard this from people, i've interviewed many times, but the way he was doing with dana there, he explains the theories that he puts out there any tries to say that there is evidence the backup, that there actually is video of the january 6th, the fact that it was an inside job, which he says he has learned. talking about the great replacement theory. he uses this kind of reasonable tone and talks about video evidence and videos that he has put out -- >> there are none. >> there are none. he did the same thing about 9/11. where he tiptoed up to having it be this conspiracy theory, and when we he confronted -- that he had not said the quote. we said, okay, we will take you out your word. the next day, the reporter published audio of him saying the quote. but he does this all the time where he uses this reasonable tone. and he says, but let everyone just see this, let everyone see this. you can see the january 6th footage. the doj has. they have arrested 1200 people who have been charged with crimes, as dana point it out there. but he uses a reasonable tone to -- who are not fact-checking it think it -- >> yeah, yeah. >> first and foremost, these damaging to the country. that's unquestionable. it's also very damaging to the republican brand. the reality is most republicans don't want to go anywhere near the great replacement theory. i don't even like saying. it we are actually trying to make inroads with minorities. black voters, hispanic voters. >> ironically, they're doing quite well. >> and to scott's point, or is a huge -- opportunity with israel to make inroads with jewish voters. -- as part of the gop platform is damaging to the party. i would say, he is a symptom of something that donald trump created. don trump came out as a demagogue. he espouse things that often more true. and people bought it. and he often went unchallenged. he is trying to do it. but there's something about him that's a bit more insidious. he is educated. he does speak well. there is like a calmness to what he is saying. now, as of now, the voters are rejecting, up give this guy ten years, it might sell a little bit. >> i think the normalization of this breezing past this racism and bigotry, he is doing, it, and a lot of people on the left are doing it on antisemitism right now, meaning those people on the left today demanding to see the evidence that hamas these women and mutilated their bodies. >> despicable. >> at the beginning of this war -- and >> the short of breezing, because why haven't we seen any witness testimony, and -- remember congress doing this and so i shake take your point and i think it's vital that we discuss it because it strikes me that on the fringe of the left and maybe the right, but certainly on the left right now, it's -- >> 100 charlottesville today in this country. and i think, in the context of this campaign, whoever wins the nomination and whoever this debate unfolds we cannot normalize and explain away easing reasonable sound and conspiracy theories or whatever because the people that -- >> -- >> we hate are the ones -- >> nobody is going to argue with you about that, and i thought this was a better week in the cheryl sandberg and others went to the united nations instead is not resistance. we've got to make sure, yeah, whole generation, and -- some of these long-standing conflicts and the idea that -- nelson mandela was -- never kidnapped anybody's grandmother. if you use weapons he went after -- infrastructure. hamas is not. hamas as a reign of terror. so there's a lot that needs to be -- you are correct when you mentioned a little bit earlier the democratic party coalition is under some particular stresses and strains now because you have some working class women of color that are beginning to follow the white men working class -- you have some muslims who are beginning to -- biden's position but you also have -- jewish americans also feel -- the can be some reorientation in some reorientation, some stresses on the parties -- but here is where i think we should all be able to agree. no hey. don't hate. jewish people? don't hate. muslims, don't hate. trans feeble, don't hate. immigrants? don't hate? china or chinese people, you can disagree with him on policy. there is just too much hate and frankly i do not want to see it in my party and there were edges of it tonight in your party and we've got to come together against the hate. >> i want to say one quick thing about just the great replacement theory, and dana bash got this. this was something that was the rationale for multiple mass shootings, including antisemitic mass shootings in this country and around the world. the idea of voicing it on a debate stage and then trying to rehabilitate the term is extraordinary and -- >> -- plead ignorance and then -- >> yeah, and then say we are going to have a conversation about the substance of immigration policy. the great replacement policy theory is -- it is fundamentally about hate. and there is -- power in -- i think vivek ramaswamy knows that and that is what makes it a, i think, so beyond the pale on that particular point. you have deranged people who have actually killed in the name of this theory and you cannot ignore that and you cannot pretend that it does not matter. it is inextricably linked to that term. and people should understand that when we talk about this. >> and it is his strategy using that this? this soliloquy heated of all these conspiracy theories, is it just reach out to all the fringe folks out there to try to boost his numbers a little bit? >> it may seem that way -- 9/11. >> the greatest hits. >> keep track. >> what's the likelihood that if you believe one, you might believe them all? >> moon landing. >> -- >> it is sad, right? again, to your point, earlier. he said we had a good week. and we had a terrible week in congress. these three college presidents from two of the most illustrious colleges in america could not answer a simple question, to where do you stand on antisemitism. there was silence. it was deafening. and it was worse than that. >> we are do you stand on the term genocide against jewish people? they are all having to put out cleanup videos today. >> i am horrified and terrified by the antisemitism. i've seen groups on the -- rashida tlaib, failure to condemn sex crimes against israeli women. but we also can't not mention that the gop front runner dined with an actual neo-not long ago, and we have to call it out on both sides, because there's a scary extremist on the far left and far right that has no business in being in mainstream politics. >> the purging of antisemitism in -- ought to be a real goal for both parties because it has no place in american politics, and yet it is ascendant right now. >> i think most people can agree on -- a secure homeland for both people and no hate and protect the babies. i think that's pretty straightforward. you want jewish people in palestinians who have secure homeland and -- you don't want civilians being put in harm's way and -- directly -- in a reckless way and -- i think most people if you just sat down and talk to -- the problem is you have the social media algorithms that are pulling people into more and more extreme positions and you have very little conversation and you have yelling and people -- much more importantly this young generation on these campuses, when i was young in on campus i said a lot of dumb stuff. -- guys in my dorm room, you know what? the sophomore is told those freshman to shut up and sit down and listen and we kept that ignorance contained and we learned and got better. the problem you have now is you have people who are getting bombarded with these devices and the algorithm is giving them a bunch of information, they're saying stuff that is completely ridiculous, in the whole world hears it. and we have a responsibility. it's not ageism. but we have a responsibility to say this to the next generation, you may not know, but you are getting pumped and used by iran on some of the stuff. you may not know, but there are influence operations that are designed to get you to get you to say things that -- might lead to violence on whatever these issues are. and we need to be more careful. i hope those college presidents are more effective at addressing young people on their campus than they were to congress and -- the passions are correct. what's happening overseas is awful. what's happening to the palestinians in gaza is awful. in the whole world sees it. and regards to being broken. but you can't use the pain of that to then smuggle in antisemitism or smuggle in all israelis this or all shoes jews next -- for democracy in israel just a few months ago all israelis that's called bigotry -- you can stand up for palestinians instill of jewish people and you can stand up for palestinians and not hurt people in israel. if you are young people and you have the whole world listening to you you've got to do both, otherwise you are being used. >> -- political leaders, the adults in this country, have to be strong enough to stand up to these people wherever they are in whoever they are. you are exactly right. there are people in this country who have wisdom in their positions of leadership, whether they are college presidents, david, whether they're candidates for president and whether they currently hold office, have a little backbone and listen to van jones. even if they are in your party and even if you think they are supposed to be voting for you have the courage to tell them to shut up and put the bigotry away on both sides. >> all right, everybody stay there there's more of the debate ahead including -- the biden -- we will be right back. >> some democrats who watched tonight's republican debate might have done it for whatever amusement they can take from seeing members of the opposition go after each other. however, however, for some other democrats tuning in was a professional obligation, including my guest right now, biden harris deputy campaign manager clinton falck. thank you so much for being here. i was sort of joking not joking with you that you have never been to a republican debate before. >> i have not. hopefully this won't be my last. >> sure. let's start with what we heard on the debate stage tonight. the argument that several of these republican candidates made was that democrats want donald trump to be the nominee. because there were -- mostly chris christie made that argument. because you think that you are more likely to be donald trump than the others. what if it is not down trump? if the candidates onstage tonight make you more worried than others? >> no. unfortunately not. at the end of the day, what we saw tonight was a completely failure from anybody on the republican side -- donald trump out for his rhetoric and the agenda he wants to do. and -- that he would rule as a dictator and -- nikki haley, ron desantis, vivek ramaswamy, refuses to say -- they are all from the same camp and out of them are calling out donald trump for saying that he overturned a woman's right to choose in that he killed roe and out of them are saying anything about him saying that he would repeal aca and health care away from 40 million americans. they're all come from the same cloth and they're all trying to do the same thing. and so for us, whether donald trump or anybody else who's on that stage tonight, it is all the same thing. we know at the end result is going to be. so, for us, it's a matter of prosecuting the case with, you know, that is what we are going to do. >> let's talk a little bit about prosecuting the case, and the people you need in the biden coalition to win reelection. we had a new poll out today. you might have seen it. and in part of it, more than -- fewer than half of black voters, only a third of young people approve of president biden's job performance. why do you think that is? >> i think that right now it is a tough time in america. it's very early. polls this early hour not only indicative of how elections and. up but our campaign has not been taking out of these voters for granted and we've hit the ground ground running with a 25 million dollar ad buy doubling down on constituency media, talking to black voters, latino voters, we know we are going to have to -- all across the globe. in a very fragmented media environment. and that's where our posture is. for us, it's really a matter of doubling down and making sure that we communicate and that's what campaigns are for. again, we need to bring this back and focus on the stakes of this election. it's going to be a choice between president biden and the accomplishments and things he is doing, and where republicans want to take this country. and i think it is very clear where they want to go. >> but it could, in the case of, again, some members of the biden coalition, who are unlikely to vote for donald trump, they are more likely scenario is that they want to stay home. that is a big potential red flag for you. >> it's a red flag when voters are willing to stay home and vote for your opponent. again we have to communicate with these voters. we have to be a pounding the pavement. we've already saw it with some of our early -- we now must staff in south carolina and they're going to continue to roll out staffing about around states because we've got to organize communicate to these voters. again we've got to get back to talk about the stakes of this election. we have to talk to these voters about what we have accomplished and what we want to take this country. and donald trump is saying he wants to be a dictator. there is going to be a mixture of what we want to do, but also a mixture of, look, this is where republicans want to take you and this is what donald trump in the case who has already been a president what he's done and we have to communicate that. >> i want to ask you about a report tonight in politico that one of the biden donors named -- con khan if i'm not, forgive me. -- about the presidents stance on israel, steadfast support of israel was, quote, this is baloney, you make moral compromise being involved in these politics well one if he's on national finance pinning shorts help to raise money to help get the president elected and that we sacraments. a very difficult time in america for a lot of people. as a day one joe biden us approaches from -- this is also a clinic in leadership and in stark contrast to what the republicans are doing. president biden from day one has said the antisemitism, islamophobia has no place in the american system. he's done everything he can to keep people sifton, contrast with the republicans who are calling for a muslim ban, throng our allies under the bus, praising terrorists. they don't understand foreign policy and joe biden is the only person running for the president of the united states to bring the wisdom and experience to bring people to the table. a lot of this work of diplomacy is done behind closed doors as you know. so it doesn't change anything from our campaign and the message in the narrative that way to do from moving forward. >> thank you so much. >> thank you dana. >> i would say it's nice to be here, believe already expressed how you feel to be. her >> thank's summit for having me. >> anderson back to. you >> back with the panel fact dana thanks so much. with the democratic party, these poll numbers have got to be of concern. >> i think there are three groups that are possibly moving for the exits right now possibly come back but i do think if working class men of color are feeling despondent and moving away from the party. i think a lot of jewish americans feel unsupported, they feel supported by biden stand but not as much of the progressive movement. but at the same time, you have muslims the feel that biden has been to lacking in sympathy towards the palestinians. at a lot of the young people, all of the they are seeing from these devices, our gaza babies, gaza babies, gaza babies. it is shocking the younger people in our college that this is going on. they've been exposed to it with syria and yemen or anything like that. he's got muslims who are headed for the doors, jewish young people, all at the same time, and that's what those numbers look like. i think it's gonna take some real leadership inside the democratic party to hold his coalition together and to walk through some of these issues about what is happening overseas that makes us stronger as a country and as a party if not more divided. >> don't forget, economic pressure. you have economic pressure, inflation, if you look at working class hispanic families and again, african american men who are working and in blue-collar jobs accounted for to pay for gas. the economic issues are also driving a lot of democrats away from the party as well. the biden administration, i think this gentleman was honors whistling past the graveyard, saying oh it's early warning to turn this ship around. i don't think they're gonna turn it around anytime soon. they've gotta get going quickly. >> i have more confidence but he did a good job pointing out some of the horror from trump this week, saying he's gonna be a dictator, or taken five minutes to say he won't be a dictator all the time. i think the democrats have some wind at our back as well. these are or real problems in the showing up in the numbers. >> biden said at a fund-raiser that the only reason he was running was he was running was because of trump. effectively the slogan is, it could've been worse. what he's telling all these groups you are talking about, democrat coalition groups, it could be worse. is does this inspire confidence in you or anyone? elsie wouldn't me if i were a democrat. i thought that was a very candid yet -- >> every now and again, biden might make a gaffe. every now and again. right now i think the party needs some work, it shows numbers. but as you closer, northeast whistling past the graveyard, i understand what you're saying. we are not making a strong case for biden, we are making a strong case against trump. at some point you have to balance. not >> with the seismic shift we are seeing right now, the liberal coalition, i think the fact you have a situation where joe biden likes to say compare me, don't compare me to the alternative. of course liberals aren't gonna turnout for donald trump, but enough if enough of them stay home puts trump over the edge. that's the what you guys have to worry about. to some degree, i think this is the first time i've seen a biden surrogate one of these debates. that seems to delay. they should've been campaigning six months ago. the very behind the eight. ball >> these young people 1834, yet of 34% approval rate from palestine. to your point, maybe you don't think and vote republican this time, maybe they just stay home. >> it's a muslim americans in the states, michigan, where he won by 155,000 votes that could make such a crucial difference. on what he said last night, he said if donald trump was not running, i don't know that i would be running. but of course we know that donald trump is running a clearly season as a republican nominee even oas not clinch that yet. we saw donald joe biden do something that you call it a gaffe, the white house say something they wished he had not said. he came up to reporters at the white house last night after he got back and it's pitch black outside under the south lawn he doesn't typically speak them any came over to reporters. the lights were so bright kind of had to show a size and a walk that statement back. because that they realized that is a mistake of a statement to say the only reason your running because donald trump is in the race. >> but even strategically it does not factually air out. a generic democrat goes had ahead with trump goes better. that's with the biden team is missing. they're holding on to the one guy who cannot beat trump had dead. >> he ran for two reasons, charlottesville and trump. we're now having all these charlottesville's and trump is innocent. if you are democrat about into that in 19 and 20, from that perspective you might conclude this is a failed presidency. he's not done any of the two things he said he's going to do. >> i appreciate you speaking for the people in my party. i'm glad it makes a lot of sense to you. >> i gotta try to coexist. >> unlike with abortion you said it our way. this whole thing is switching around. it's not a left-wing period, it's not a right-wing period, it's a volatile turbulent period. it's and campaigns matter. and i agree that the campaign still as ahead of itself. i think a lot the democrats are proud of the democrats do. if if joe biden quit right now better mount rushmore. few look at all things done to infrastructure, climate, anti-asian hate when you go down the list. the problem is to make the case going forward that he's the guy they can help us go forward, we are in a world where i do believe that summit with biden with his foreign policy experience is going to be critical. i don't think you want to donald trump and who every puts on the ticket, going overseas. right now you have to be a dishonest person to say the democrats are united and inspired. we are not i'm not a good student history, but to understand we are very far from the election. a year of the obama win and a year out from the biden when the numbers look very different. they will look different by the time we get there. >> but fan, to the point you are making, of any of those accomplishments. but you look at mount rushmore that, time poll after poll after poll, so those satisfaction he hasn't done a good job what's gonna change between now and the election that's gonna convince people that interest rates are really a percent, that you can afford to buy a house, you can afford a car payment, you can afford to go to college. what's gonna change? i don't know how they're messaging is going to change. >> i think you've got a combination, if you think it's bad now, wait until the republicans have carte blanche to do everything they want to, which you can make everything worse. i think that's an important point to mark. i think if you think it's turbulent and you're scared, i don't think you put a drunk driver in the white house. i think there's gonna be a case to be made as we get closer. but i feel it's okay, people are hurting and i'm certain, it's not just democrats across the board. there is payne out here. it changes hard. have a son who graduated from high school. i thought that was a great change until it happen and then i started crying. every even change you want is hard. this is chains of people don't want. my fear is i don't see in either party kind of moral clarity, the kind of maturity, the kind of empathetic leadership that we deserve. it's going to be, people are going to be voting for what they want, not for just what they have. >> but you go back to the sky in the poll that gary tuchman asked the trump voter. sudbury voting for trump? he did this, the economy was better, we weren't in any wars. that's what trump's gonna be running up. i've done it before. when i was there, you didn't have brackets rounder 401k. your numbers were going up. we weren't in morris, gas was $2 a gallon. people are gonna be nostalgic for that. that's what people are gonna be voting on. coming, up more fact checking in the debate tonight. question about what nikki haley one said about policing social media. you're probably not easily persuaded to switch mobile providers for your business. but what if we told you it's possible that comcast business mobile can save you up to 75% a year on your wireless bill versus the big three carriers? did we peak your interest? you can get two unlimited lines for just $30 each a month. there are no term contracts or line activation fees. and you can bring your own device. oh, and all on the most reliable 5g mobile network nationwide. wireless that works for you. it's not just possible, it's happening. like the previous three debates we hear a lot of claims tonight confidently spoken on things that were not true. separate fact from fiction here's pamela brown. >> anderson, nikki haley for her part she was on the defensive tonight after the other candidates attack policy proposals to put social media platforms to require name identification. here's what she said. >> what i said was that social media companies need to show us their algorithms. i also said that there are millions of bots on social media right now. their foreign, their chinese, they're iranian. i will always fight for freedom of speech for americans. we do not need freedom of speech for russians and iranians and hamas. we need social media companies to go back on all of these bots that are happening. that's what i said. >> so that's not exactly what she said initially anderson. our fact-checked charles haley is backtracking on her original proposal. she did original propose anonymous banning anonymous speech for everyone on social media platforms. on fox news back november, every person on social media should be verified by their name as a national security threat. later she walk that back only to apply to foreign actors online after right-wing criticism. and ron desantis and vivek ramaswamy were correct pushback on haley for backtracking on her proposal but ramaswamy said she's advocating for doxxing and that claim particular is misleading. >> let's go back to dana. >> anderson thank is so much. joining us now is our colleague jeff zeleny. we were actually watching over there during the entire debate. one thing that was interesting we watched it in realtime was the last time nikki haley was kind of catching fire, but also taking in fire. she really fought back particularly against vivek ramaswamy. he really got under her skin at the last debate and he said get your daughter's name out of whatever she said. she called him scum. this time she was ready for it and she was also ready to approach it in a new way. let's watch. >> at the first debate, she said that only a woman can get this job done. that's what she said. after the third debate, when i criticize rhonda macdonnell after five failures of leadership at this and, criticize her as a foreign contractors, she said i have a woman problem. nikki, i don't have a woman problem. you have a corruption problem and i think that's what people need to know. nikki's corrupt. this is a woman who will send your kids so she can buy your house. this is the problem, using identity politics more effectively than kamala harris, it's a form of intellectual fraud. donor puppet masters wielding their -- >> governor haley would you like to respond. >> no, it's not worth my time to respond to him. >> what do you make of that? >> well she, was biding her tongue, she was clearly doing this strategically. you could tell there she was on the verge of wanting to jump in. she's in a better place than she was at the miami debate just a month ago. her performance really has been something of a crescendo through each of these debates. she is one candidate who has benefited the most without question, but she's in a better place. she's new supporters minor, donors behind her, and she was trying to look presidential in respect their. i was texting with a supporter of hers who lives in iowa, and they said she was happy they didn't take the bait because he's not worth it. we will see how this goes on, but i think it was somewhat strategic, but we talked about alliances here. there were some very interesting alliances in this debate. chris christie said he came to her defense. he said he was not doing it intentionally, but i think it at the same effect there. i think she did herself a lot of good tonight. as did the florida governor ron desantis. >> let's talk about that a little bit because he was a different candidate on the debate stage since really that we've seen since database of started. he was very aggressive, he knew what he needed to say, in what he wanted to say. he had a really clear audience in mind. >> he did. his audience were iowa republican voters. that's where all of his hopes now are resting upon, i want republican voters. and this is the only social conservative last left in the race, so he's really trying to get his record, regurgitating and at the same time attacking nikki haley. >> he had the apple memorized. he was >> it was regurgitating dating it, not in the most poetic way, but i think he got his point across the. but of course talking to those iowa voters whose focused on the caucus is 40 days from tonight, there was another big match tonight in iowa that a lot of republicans i was talking to was watching. that was the women's basketball game between iowa state university in the university of iowa. caitlin clark the stellar player hit the 3000 mark tonight. that's with some iowans were top intimate tonight not this race. >> we are here in alabama survey understand -- especially when you are talking about ultra college sports. the other thing we have to talk about is the trump factor, and chris christie was so intent, like he's done on the campaign trail much more on this debate stage than any other, to call his opponents out and say you are not standing up to trump. basically he's gonna be the guy at the polls are right and i'm paraphrasing here, we are all going to regret. it >> right, and time is running out. and that argument that he's been making all years really not a new one, but it hasn't resonated or being accepted by republicans. but i do think in the quiet minds of republicans who are still deciding, and there are still republicans deciding that, he's pinning his hopes on new hampshire. but 40 days from tonight that's when the voting begins. >> okay, thank you so much. jeff anderson back to you. >> dana, jeff thanks so much. coming up within a switch from politics to the mass shooting in las vegas, three people murdered. please still trying to determine the motive of the shooter is dead. while other report next. three data fourth hospitalized in a mass shooting at the university of la nevada in las vegas please sketching out a motive for the shooter was dead. six years ago as you may remember when the cities were shooting in modern history. 58 people were called killed at a country music festival. lucy kavanaugh joins us from las vegas with the latest from what happened today. one of the details from what we know? >> anderson, the university is right behind me and we still see law enforcement still participating in this active this investigation. the act of order was lifted in the last hour and that's they were had to go and clearing the buildings capital by campus. as far as the gunman, police are not revealing the victim but, law enforcement since tell cnn that he's a 67-year-old career professor has now his connection to this and his motive are still unknown. reports of shots fired started coming in at around 45 11:45 am local time. near the beam whole building. this is near the business school. police say that the shooting actually began on the fourth floor of that building. it then moved down through multiple floors and the sheriff said that the suspect, at the pleased engaged with the suspect unquote neutralized him outside. let me set the scene for you. this was a very busy time on campus. it's study week, students are preparing to take finals and then go home for winter break. so it was a very busy environment. the place even say the outside it beam building there were some table setup where students rippling lego games and eating. the sheriff's department could've told us that a lot more lives could be lost had the university pleased not heroically engage the suspect taking him down. that's basically what we have. >> do we know more about the victims and the one person who is in the hospital? >> well unfortunately, their identities have not yet been released because authorities are still notifying families in the next of kin. we simply know the three people tragically lost their lives. one victim suffered a gunshot wound. they were initially reported as being in critical condition at the hospital but in the latest press conference the sheriff said that victim is now in stable condition. we also know anderson at four students were taken to local hospitals with panic attacks. obviously a terrifying experience that is not lost on anyone that the same city suffered one of the mass shootings that you referred to in its history and back in 2017 so lot of trauma be percolated for the days to come. lisa cava like so much. we want to thank my colleagues. the news continues, and sodas with laura coats and abby philip next.

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