with less than six weeks until the iowa caucuses four republican hopefuls not named trump try to set themselves apart. good evening from new york. >> hello from the spin room here on the campus of the university of alabama in tuscaloosa. site of the debate, 2024. it is wrapping up. chris christie, ron desantis, nikki haley and vivek ramaswamy once again the former president did not take part. nikki haley, who has been rising lately as a contender in some polls and in the eyes of some campaign watchers and certainly in the eyes of some big donors came in for -- she had a lot of criticism heading towards her tonight from desantis and ramaswamy. >> no doubt that. i know you will be speaking with some of the debaters tonight. look forward to that. pamela brown is checking the facts. gary has his focus group of voters in iowa. and our political panel here. first, a moment from the debate stage. a clash between chris christie a vivek ramaswamy with nikki haley it in the middle. >> you do this at every debate. don't interrupt me. you say this -- you do this -- you do this at every debate. you go out on the stump and say something. all of us see on video. we confront you on the debate stage. you say you didn't say it and then you back away. i want to say -- no i'm not done yet. look -- >> hold on, hold on. [ cheers and applause ] >> let me say something. this is the fourth debate, the fourth debate that you would be voted it in the first 20 minutes as the most objnoxious blow har in america. we are 25 minutes into the debate and he has insulted nikki haley's basic intelligence. not her positions. her basic intelligence. she wouldn't be able to find something on a map that his 3-year-old could find. look, if you want to disagree on issues, that's find and nikki and i disagree on some issue. i have known her 12 years, i which is longer than he even started to vote in the republican primary, and while we disagree about some issues and disagree about who should be president of the united states w we don't disagree in a smart accomplished woman. you should stop insulting her. >> first of all, think we just learned something from chris christie. we learned -- >> hold on, hole on, hold on. >> three thins right there. first of all, chris christie doesn't know what province in ian ukraine he wants to fight for. your version of foreign policy experience was closing a bridge from new jersey to new york. so do everybody a favor. just walk yourself up that stage, enjoy a meal and get the hell out of this race. >> one of several sharp clashes tonight. a a abby flips, van jones, kaitlan collins, david urban and scott jennings. more people than were actually in the debate itself. >> more people than watched the debate. >> yeah. >> i mean, i think with nikki haley we saw the perils of emerging successfully the last several debates. every single candidate was going after nikki haley pretty much the entire time. there were moments she was a little bit removed from the conversation. i think governor desantis actually had a stronger debate than several of the last debates. a lot of it was just arguing on stage between all of them and vivek ramaswamy yelling at points and then i think the most notable point was chris christie at the end saying picture election day and saying donald trump will not be voting that day because he is going to be a convicted felon. >> van? >> i thought like wonder woman fighting off like a whole mob of supervilleans. nikki haley had to defend herself every second of that debate performance. and she did well. she actually held up well. she was actually able to pull it off. and even when vivek said she didn't know the provinces, she knew the provinces. so, you know, nikki haley did a great job. i was proud of chris christie. he was a scholar and gentleman tonight. >> and i think nikki haley took a different strategy than we've seen from her. she actually kinda took a step back a little bit which really underscored the fact that she is the frontrunner in the race right now. she had lot coming at her. she didn't try to be in every moment. she had chris christie defending her. he probably did a better job defending her on the stage than doing anything necessarily for his own campaign. and in some ways i see why they pursued that strategy this time around because you don't need to respond to every single thing. and it just -- just the fact, the eagerness of ramaswamy to attack her proved to the voters and to the audience she is the one that they think that they have to beat and that's i think the message they were trying to send. >> nikki haley proved again she is a political heavyweight. sh has won all of ddebates. the moment that stood out to me when chris christie was a gentleman and jumped to defend her. he made a point to say we disagree on some things. somebody who has run his sole campaign on stopping donald trump and happened to lag in the polls, i could see a world which he ends up endorsing a nailt. he drew that contrast. the way he described her, the relationship, her credibility spoke as somebody who could end up backing her. >> governor chris christie was, i mean, kept pointing out time and time again i am the only one who said i would support donald trump if te was the nominee. making the candidates answer questions better than the moderators did. he was really forcing the issue. he did a great job tonight. unfortunately, his numbers haven't moved since day one. and when you sit back, we were talking about this earlier, from the first debate performance until today, the numbers really haven't moved. trump has been in the high 50s/low 60s. desantis 13, 14. nikki haley has kinda come up a bunch and vivek ramaswamy has dropped. crist a's kinda stayed the game. it's reshufrmg the deck chairs on the "titanic" a little bit on this side of the aisle. nikki haley had a solid performance and chris christie i think did very, very well. >> for the sake of this commentary, we will assume any of these people have a chance to beat donald trump. i think what we saw tonight i saw alliances forming tonight. for the first time we saw alliances. the pretrump gop christie and haley versus the post-trump gop, desantis and ramaswamy, teaming up to attack haley as you pointed out. christie came to haley's defense. that stuck out to me. i agree that the narrative here is going to be that haley was attacked. therefore, she must have momentum. desantis churns out solid republican conservative content on virtually every question. he didn't bobble a single question tonight. ramaswamy once again hurt himself just as he has ever single debate. the thing that really dawns on me is there is not room enough in iowa for haley and desantis and there is not room enough in new hampshire for haley and christie. if any of them hopes to get close to donald trump, will this field ever consolidate? it doesn't feel like it's going to. once again, fragmentation is donald trump's friend and, as you pointed out, since we started august 23rd he has gone from 55 to 61 in the national polling averages. it's hard to argue his strategy of sitting out is anything but genius. >> desantis isn't going anywhere. it's quickly becoming a race for number two between ron desantis and nikki haley. and there are a lot of important endorsements sitting on the sidelines. that doesn't mean what they used to, but governor sununu, he has outperformed donald trump in his home state. if he backs nikki haley that gives her momentum. if she rallies support in iowa that gives her momentum. she is head-to-head with ron desantis and chris christie does still poll about 5% in new hampshire. that's a bit of support she could pull off there. i think we are out a place it's head-to-head and there is a chance to take him on. >> i think today felt to me about a fight for momentum and i -- i think we have to give desantis some credit. he had a very strong debate. i mean, just in the last couple of days some of his people after that debate that he had with gavin newsom, they were really excited because he was sort of demonstrating a growth that they wanted to see from him. and i think it showed up tonight in a way that might help him. it has helped nikki haley to be on this debate stage and perform aggressively. it will be really important for desantis if he can take that momentum and push it forward because this is the moment. there is no more time left before iowa. like, this is the moment he has to show that there is going to be a surge going into iowa. otherwise, it's hard to see what the path is. >> good for him tonight. i don't think that it did. >> too little, too late, i think. >> the thing is, something about him is hard to like him. he comes out there. he lands all the points. he lands all the talking points. but there is -- his affect -- i hate to say it. this is petty and shallow, but his affect, he looks uncomfortable, doesn't like anybody there, doesn't like -- and it makes it hard for people to connect. i think people are -- there is a reason that he is, like, a bottle of soda losing the fizz. and he did not put the fizz back in the soda tonight. desantis. >> i will say i was talking to trump advisors, trump allies. they think it's a good -- he made a good move by not coming to any of the debates. >> right. >> which chris christie knocked him for. but politically speaking they think that he has come off fine. and as scott was entertaining, you know, this idea that anyone but trump has a chance. nikki haley, obviously, and what they were alluding to when it comes to trump's potential criminal issues is maybe holding out hope that that is something that ensnare him, trip him up. we don't know. the likelihood of that happening is anyone's guess. they seem to think it was a wise choice he didn't come, though i will say not only nikki haley, desantis also hitting trump tonight on the deficit. >> let's play that between chris christie and desantis about whether trump is fit for office. >> father time is undefeated. the idea that we are going to put someone up there almost 80 and there will be no effects from that, we know that's not true. and so we have an opportunity to do a next generation of leaders and really be able to move this country forward. we need a president to serve two terms. i don't think donald trump -- i don't think he could get elected. the democrats want him to be the nominee. if he got the -- >> do you think he is mentally fit to be president? >> i think we need somebody younger. >> answer the question. the question was very direct. is he fit to be president or isn't he? the rest of the speech is interesting, but completely nonresponsive. and if we were in a courtroom, they'd strike the answer and say, governor desantis -- >> no, they wouldn't. they'd say you're a smart man. >> no they wouldn't. >> you are not answering. if he fit -- >> you have your -- >> no, is he or isn't? he. >> i don't have my thing. is he fit -- >> you want to- d. >> you are talking about him being 80 years old. is he fit, ron, ron, ron? is he fit, ron? >> governor desantis -- >> ron, ron is he anytime -- >> i have an opportunity -- >> guys, guys, guys, no talking over each other. >> i am going to come to you. finish. >> look, father time is undefeated. i don't know how he would score on a test, but i know this. we have an opportunity to nominate someone and elect someone for two terms who is going to be spinning nails on day one and for eight years -- >> so you do think he is fit? >> we should not nominate somebody -- >> he won't answer. >> 80 years old. he is afraid to answer. >> no i'm not. >> you have to -- >> no. >> either you're afraid or not listening -- >> no, it's not. >> hey, hey! >> and dana bash with governor christie. >> reporter: thanks, anderson. thank you for being here. as we were watching that moment, i was saying to you almost as if you were the fourth moderator in that debate. >> well, it's not a role i want to play. i am sick and tired of being at these debates and watching the other three folks on the stage not willing to answer the questions. the voters who are watching deserve to hear an answer. especially on something like that. ron's trying to play both sides to the middle. so is nikki. they don't want to offend anyone. you have no business being the president of the united states if you don't have the principles to stand up for what you believe if even if it might offend people and might boo you which i got tonight and i don't care. >> you got it lot every im it too you mention trump's name. >> you know what they are booing? the truth because they are in denial. he is going to be convicted felon come this spring. and what i said in my closing statement is absolutely true. he will be a candidate if he is our nominee who won't be able to vote for himself. why would anybody else vote for him? >> you mentioned nikki haley. i want to play a part of you coming to her defense pretty aggressively in this debate. >> he has insulted nikki haley's basic intelligence. not her positions. her basic intelligence. if you want to disagree on issues, that's fine. and nikki and i disagree on some issues. i'll tell you. >> this i have known her 12 years, which is longer than he has even start today vote in a republican primary -- [ laughter ] >> and while we disagree with issues and disagree about who should be president of the united states, we don't disagree that this is a smart accomplishment woman. you should stop insulting her. >> where did that come from? >> mine, look, i'm a truth teller, dana. nikki and i disagree. i don't think she should be president of the united states. she is a smart woman and an accomplished woman and worked incredibly hard both in south carolina and in the u.n. and i think that vivek has a woman problem. i do think he insults women's basic intelligence. he has done it over and over and over again. and i guess gh had had enough. i had enough of listening to his garbage. as i said, his smartass harvard mouth. that's what it is. when he is dictating to me and nikki haley who committed ourselves to public service while he has been off stealing from seniors to make his fortune, yeah, i am not going to put up with anymore. >> you call yourself truth he will ter. you are also a savvy politician. >> thank you. >> the wind-up there is about new hampshire and it was very interesting to watch you and nikki haley -- certainly you said you disagree about a lot of things. seemed like you were forming a bit of an alliance with her. >> no. >> in a place like -- no? >> no. look, i am a truth teller, dana. and i am going to tell the truth. if someone is insulting nikki haley in a way that was personal. it was nothing about issues. he said she is not smart enough to know where things on the map, that his 3-year-old son is smarter than a woman who served as a two-term governor and u.n. ambassador. he is a jack ass. it's not me forming an alliance with nikki haley. wait until you see the next search weeks. >> what's gonna happen? >> we will be competing against each other hard to win new hampshire, i suspect. and i have a lot of -- look, i've said tonight she is unwilling to take on donald trump. she didn't do it again tonight. she is not willing to say he is unfit. she not willing to lower that hand she raised it in august to say even if he was a convicted felon she would support him. we should have a higher standard and she fails on that front. but you know, at the end of the day, if someone is unfair to somebody else who i had a 12-year relationship with, i am not going to let him beat her up. the moderators didn't step in and ask for any decorum. whether it was vie rec or ron, fight with the guy from jersey. you know what that's like. >> i do. i think she also -- well, i want to ask when -- more about donald trump. and the fact that you said multiple times, as you said since the beginning of your candidacy, that they are not going after the big person in the race, the person who is far and away the frontrunner. let's listen to part of that rkz. >> so do i think he was kidding? when he said he was a dictator? look at the history. and that's why failing to speak out against him making excuses for him, pretending that somehow he is a victim empowers him. you want to know what the poll numbers are where they are? folks like these three dguys on the stage make it seem like his conduct is acceptable. it's unacceptable. he is unfit. >> that is kind of your mantra on this -- >> one of them. >> one of the mantras on this campaign. obviously, you had an opportunity to do it to your three remaining opponents on the stage there. do you really think that they are going to all of of a sudden start to go after donald trump? >> if they want to win, they better. because look at the strategy they have been pursuing. the strategy they have been pursuing is consigned to failure. i know because i did the same thing eight years ago. i ignored him. so did jeb bush, so did john kasich, and with when -- and marco rubio. you know what happened? we all lost. we lost because we wouldn't calm him out on the fact that he was never going to get mexico to pay for a wall, balance the budget in four years, his muslim ban garbage. hope is not strategy. and that's why ron desantis has gone from the mid-30s to single digits. that's why nikki haley is 30 points behind him in her home state. i am telling you this. people are going to wake up, wake up to this message. when they do there is one person on the stage telling the truth and it was me. >> you, obviously, now what you wanted to accomplish tonight. did anything on that stage, any comment from any of your opponents surprise you? >> no. it's the same stuff over and over again. ron desantis has memorized answers. nikki haley trying to have it both ways. and vivek, who is the drunk driver of the debate stage. you never know who he is going or what he is going to hit. so, no, nothing surprised me. >> anything you didn't get to? >> yeah. i think, look, i didn't get to bach about the border. which i really would have liked to have had an opportunity to do. and there were two questions right at the end i think the second segment they went to the other three and never dame to me. we got time. i got a sense there will be more daines after the first of the year, hopefully in iowa and new hampshire, and also i think there is plenty of time for me as i'm campaigning to continue to emphasize those points. those are the things that i didn't get to because they didn't give me a chance. as you saw tonight, in they would have asked, i would have answered. >> yes, i definitely know that. governor, thank you so much. >> thanks for the time. thanks for being here in tuscaloosa, roll tide. >> kaitlan collins, that's for you. >> drunk driver on the debate stage. i think that is -- >> that's the best line of the night. >> christie for the first time in this debate season felt -- it seemed like he felt comfortable. maybe the smaller stage benefitted him. for the audience he is trying to appeal to in new hampshire, his attitude, that straight talk kind of thing went after desantis a little bit on the trump stuff, defended haley, he was funny there. he helped himself tonight. now, he is not going to help himself in the national polls. but the narrow thinking he has to get done is independents and democrats in new hampshire casting an anti-trump vote. haley and him being in the race together at the same time in new hampshire trying to take on trump is problematic. i thought this might have been christie's best night so far. >> my question is what women sh thought of the debate. nikki haley used that to her advantage. she was getting a lot of the attention from the fellas, as she put it. you hear chris christie there telling dana he thinks vivek ramaswamy has a woman problem because he was going after her not just over policy, about but insulting her, tell he