have any jokes, man. >> i'm and i will do it next time when my city and i'm happy that this went great, it will do the job. next time. >> we'll do the jokes next time, i'll all the best to your heart goes out to you and everybody who was at that field tonight, what a night. thanks so much. roy wood junior it's a terrific, as always. thank you. thanks for watching everybody. anderson cooper 360 next, have a good night tonight on 360. >> he's been talking plenty about revenge lately now, the former president, it takes it one step further, amplifying calls for chasing you down perceived opponents and for the first time one of his most prominent targets is responding tonight on 360. also tonight breaking news on the judge trump appointed who's now slow one walking through his classified documents, case, new reporting that her own boss, the chief judge, asked her not to take the case and later, life and remarkable career of donalds sutherland, who died today at 88 good evening. thanks for joining us. we begin tonight, keeping them on us with the question, why should the republican candidate for president, and very possibly the next president the united states, be concerned even just a little about a former career civil servant it's unclear why he is. yes, but it should concern all of us that he is the former civil servant is andrew mackay back when trump was president mckay was deputy director of the fbi, is now a cnn senior law enforcement analyst. mccabe or in trump's ire for his role in the fbi's russia investigation. he was later fired, is deputy director on then president trump's public urging just our short of qualifying for his pension, which he had to sue to get restored then he was investigated by the justice department, but never charged raising questions at the time about whether a grand jury had taken the rare step of refusing to bring indictments because such proceedings are secret. we may never know. >> but now with former president and his supporters openly calling for revenge and retribution against perceived enemies, mccabe is being targeted again, he's not, he's not the only one we should point out. >> the former president has spoken of revenge frequently well, revenge does take time. i will say that it does, and sometimes revenge can be justified. so i have to be honest you know, sometimes it can trump's advisers and supporters have talking about purging career civil servants if he's elected, especially the justice department in which he's threatening to turn into an instrument of revenge. >> and now trump has also been posting on social media linking to a story about his former strategist, steve bannon, who is reacting to the concern all this revenge talk is causing specifically to andrew mccabe talking to the sources kaitlan collins about it a lot of conversations with former colleagues, people who are or were in the intelligence and law enforcement community, and may have worked in the obama administration, other places and if people are really trying to assess what is life going to be like, if donald trump wins a second term? >> on a very personal level, i mean, these are tortures, discussions with their family members about whether or not they have to leave the country to avoid being unconstitutional ly and illegally detain. people were actually worried about being thrown in jail or grabbed in some extra judicial detention i think it's crazy as this sounds in the united states, america, i think people should really consider that these are possibilities so that's what mccabe told kaitlan collins a short time ago, bannon then responded saying this in mccabe, you should be worried you should be very worried, but also understanding this brother, we have extradition treaties with virtually every country in the world and you go ahead and run and run as far as you want. >> we're going to come and get you so that's a former and perhaps soon to be again, senior adviser to trump, who is saying much the same despite the best efforts of dr. phil and sean hannity to stop him. and again, they're taking aim with this at perceived political enemies, but also at the day-to-day in day in and day out career professionals of federal law enforcement november 5 is judgment day. january 20, 2025 is accountability de you're gonna get every single receipt? and to the fullest extension of the law, you are going to be investigated prosecuted in incarcerated. >> blade and gentlemen. >> it's very simple. victory or death and inner mccabe joins us now. >> so when you hear steve bannon saying these things and the president and former president amplifying comments that you should be worried what, what goes through your mind later? >> some part of me is not surprised at all. these are things he's been saying forever. >> we know that donald trump and his friend are these are people who are obsessed with personal grievance and settling scores their entire way of thinking about leading and administering this country is in the context of having been wronged and trying to engender support for among their supporters by throwing this kind of red meat out to people who are who respond to the language. >> so we shouldn't be surprised by it at all. they're both paranoid old men, one of whom is on his way to jail and the other one, we'll see that might happen for him as well. >> so that part doesn't surprise me. what's really to me shocking and disgusting about the rhetoric is what it says about who we are becoming as a nation. >> and the fact that a person who is quite possibly the next president of the united states is engaging in this level of absolutely fundamentally anti-democratic rhetoric and behavior and ideation everything he says is stands in direct contrast to the nation that we think we are, the nation that we have always been. but i think people have got to start asking themselves, is this the direction? that we want to go. is this the country that we're becoming a place where an incoming president takes the levers of power and uses them for his own gratification to pursue enemies, right? >> i mean, if say, if trump is reelected and see bannon is in his orbit, are still doing his little podcast and they choose to, the federal government the white house chooses to go after you they could make your life really awful. i mean, you would have to hire attorneys, you would have to at great expense i mean, i can all about that. >> yeah. i know it well. right. this is they've been doing this to meet donald trump's been doing this to me for years here's a two-year baseless criminal investigation that they ended only because it went nowhere in a federal judge essentially forced them to issue a declination a invasive irs audit the only other person i know who's ever been subjected to the same one as jim comey? not coincidentally. i'm sure the durham investigation, right? same same basic idea william barr and john durham announced that we were all criminals and then spent years traveling around the globe trying to find proof of that, which of course they couldn't i came to essentially nothing so i know what to expect. it's not about me. i'll be fine. it's about people who will be experiencing this for the first time. and more importantly, their families i talked to former officials and everyone is in the same place like we are still committed to this country and seeing this through, we still have faith in the systems that are, that are built to protect the rights of every american. but that's a hard thing to explain to your family when their thinking basically they don't want to have did live in this kind of fear and terror for another four years. >> it also, what kind of chilling effect does it have on others who are still in law enforcement are others who are still in the fbi about choices they make are decisions they make now. >> yeah. how do you think those agents felt who had the bad luck or misfortune to be assigned to the mar-a-lago raid. the marla excuse me, search warrant, not a raid what's happened to them. they've been vilified now, falsely accused by the former president of having been out to somehow assassinate him or taken out, all of which is it's sanely ridiculous and not true there are other indicators that people within government are stepping back from aspects of this work that they think might engender the same sort of scrutiny in the aftermath of the investigation of possible coordination between the trump campaign in 2016 and the russian government. the massive investigation that we mounted to get to the bottom of that, the pfizer coverage that we had on carter page, which was exposed to have been had contained numerous mistakes. that's all unforgiving non-stop attacks that donald trump has levied on the fbi for things like that. is it coincidence that the fbi's use of pfizer and domestic pfizer coverage is down about 75% and from those years are the threats facing this nation down 75%, i think not. >> and when steve bannon talks about the long arm of american justice using it to pursue you even if you leave the country. i mean, have you thought about leaving the country? >> i know what american justice is. i spent 21 years as a law enforcement officer in this country. steve bannon has no idea what he's talking about about that, or probably anything else? people who haven't committed crimes in this country have nothing to worry about. >> me people who have dedicated their lives to public service and civil service. >> i mean, it is the backbone of our democracy. >> it is, it is it is essential for the functioning of this country at agencies all over and it's extraordinary that somebody who really running for president already saying like this guy we're going to go after this person that's right. that's right. those protections, those safeguards. that's what this country was built around to protect everyone from the person in charge that's how we that's why we split off from the brits so many years ago. that's what we're all about. everyone is treated the same under the law. everybody enjoys the same protection. so to have the person who aspires to the highest seat, the highest role is job in the land to start picking out people like me or anyone else and targeting them for revenge, unleashing the rage of their supporters. in, however, that's played out it's, it's outrageous. and it's just heartbreaking that that's where we are as a nation what does it mean for national security if skilled members of law enforcement intelligence officials basically leave the leave public service because of these concerns. it's never been more important than right now that law enforcement and intelligence agencies in this country are able to attract the brightest, smartest, most dedicated people that threats are more complicated than ever are challenges with cyber everything, right? this is hiring is probably the number one i'm priority in every agency and the idea that their own potential boss would have such an effect on that community as to drive people out in droves because they are unwilling to subject themselves. so this sort of treatment, i mean, it's just absolutely contrary to where we need to be as a nation is contrary to the mission of protecting this country and the people in it. >> do you what is the next step? i mean, how do you prepare for something like this? >> i'm living my life. right? i i have the extraordinary opportunity to speak here to people like you to draw attention to these issues. i will continue to do that i'm sure people who are similarly situated to me, we'll do the same. i think it's important to keep drawing attention to these things so we see them for what they are and ultimately people of course, we'll make their own decisions at the end of the election, but this is my country, this is our country. i have there's nothing that donald trump or steve bannon can possibly do to sway me from that interim cape. thank you very much. thank you coming up next. we're breaking news on judge aileen cannon and the request that to federal fellow judges reportedly made that xi not take the classified documents case a later scene in investigates how private religious schools, even those that teach being gay is a sin, are getting taxpayer funding more on that ad anderson cooper 360 brought to you by the bike riders starring jodie comer, austin butler, and tom hardy. >> outsiders become legends the bike riders rated are in theaters tomorrow. >> the bike riders i built this some people would rather crack and slow down bike riders 3d dollar holding theaters tomorrow three body serie a city client uses city's financial expertise to help drive its growth and keep its supply chain moving. >> some more pet parents can get everything they need, right when they need it. keeping more pets and families happy for the love of moving up clients forward, for the love of progress country corrupt. so we're going to save it no longer be beloved celebrities will be tell me, a little wrap it was had trouble losing weight and keeping same discovered the power of week-old into my janan to be what we gobi. >> i lost 35 pounds as some lost over 46 pounds we go. >> and i'm keeping the weight off we go via help you lose weight and keep it off i'm reducing my risk. >> we go it's the only fda approved weight management medicine that's proven to reduce risk of major cardiovascular events and adults with no work disease and with neither obesity or overweight we go we shouldn't be used with semaglutide or glp-1 medicines. don't take, we go vi if you or your family had medullary thyroid cancer multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome, type two or allergic to it? 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-but the good news is... xfinity mobile just got even better! now, you can automatically connect to wifi speeds up to a gig on the go. plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. i gotta get this deal... i know... faster wifi and savings? ...i don't want to miss that. that's amazing doc. mobile savings are calling. visit xfinitymobile.com to learn more. doc? comfort but great night sleep this is cnn the world's news network breaking news tonight ahead of a hearing tomorrow in the classified documents case, judge, aileen cannon will hear a defense motion to dismiss the classified documents charges against the former president. now the thrust of bid is that special counsel jack smith was improperly appointed and funded. it's legally dubious argument which courts have rejected. but as we've been reporting and as our legal experts have been saying throughout the case, judge cannon is making habit of taking up what other judges might dismiss out of hand, which brings us to this new reporting, the new york times, that the judge was asked by two colleagues not to take the case the reporter citing two people briefed on the matter, right. the judges who approached judge cannon, including the chief judge in the southern district of florida, cecilia ml to naga. each asked her to consider whether it would be better if she were to decline the high-profile case, allowing it to go to another judge. the two people said she refused. cnn asked the chief judge, named in the article to comment. she declined however, we do have a former chief judge with us tonight. judge john e. jones, the third who headed up the federal middle district in pennsylvania along with us bestselling author and former federal prosecutor jeffrey thuban jones. what does it say to you that the cannons colleagues suggested she step aside and what does it say to you that she declined well, i think that your son i'm sad to say that she's out of her judicial depth, and i think her colleagues know that they saw that she made a hash out of the matter that she took up before this case where trump filed suit and she took a whack from the 11th circuit, and i think they were trying to protect her saying gently to her maybe it would be better to get some more experience under your belt before you take this case, it's remarkable. >> it typically doesn't have happened that often and that it got out is incredible. as well. but there are a number of different examples tomorrow being one that should have been decided on the briefs and that she is having a hearing on something that really should be easily decided. look of the 11th circuit and the supreme court wants to make new law with respect to the special counsel, let them do that, but she shouldn't be making this to such a show tomorrow. it's just it's just not good judge. him. >> jeff. i mean, not the two main theories are that she's either for inexperienced in overhead or somehow in the tank for trump were or where where does this fit into that? >> well, i mean, it's it shows that her fellow judges we knew this was coming because at least on the issue of inexperience trying big complicated cases just as a purely technical matter, is difficult. and it takes a certain amount of judicial experience and savvy to be able to do it and it often is the case that judges talk to each other and men as judge jones says, it's very rare that any of this stuff comes out publicly, but they do say, do you really think this is best for you, best for the judicial system, for whatever reason, judge cannon kept the case and that's certainly suggests partisanship may be part of it, but this pretrial proceeding has been a disaster. i mean, the incompetence and the way this has been conducted is an embarrassment to the judicial system, not not because jack smith is losing which he is just the way it is unfolded. and her colleagues for senior colleagues, tried to save her in the country from this, but she didn't go for it. >> judge. i mean, given the rebuke, the judge cannon receive from the 11th circuit court of appeals for how she handled matters pertaining to mar-a-lago search before trump was even indicted, would there have been any other recourse or mechanism for forcing her off the trial? >> not really. i think though she's walking into it now because if she decides to knock jack smith out of the box, and as i said, make new law it'll go right to the 11th circuit because it disposes of the case. and i think that dell and cedar at that point and then there's some additional matters that she's going to hear next week on the gag order anderson as jeff knows there are us magistrate judges who are appointed by courts and they're there to do a lot of grunt work and to ease the burden on the district judges she's got one right in the building judge reinhardt, who signed off on the warrant for mar-a-lago he should be handling a lot of these motions and she should have set a trial date and given him a deadline to get rid of them it is it is astonishing to me that she has an offloaded some of this stuff and that she's arrogated to herself the responsibility to hear it. that's a tool of the trade, so to speak, and that she's not avail yourself of that is ver