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MSNBCW Inside July 2, 2024



for making today easier, and if you want more of me, you can find me on all of these socials and right here on msnbc, where i am an analyst. the names charles coleman junior, stay right where you are. inside with jen psaki is starting right now. starting right now >> an appeals court prepares to decide what donald trump can say about the federal case against him. as a republican party lets him say whatever he wants, no matter how dangerous it gets. i'll talk to congressman dan goldman about all of it, and how trump's violent language is trickling down to the halls of congress. plus a judge in colorado lets the former president stay on the ballot. but rules that he did incite the insurrection on january 6th. our law firm is here to tell us what that means, next. and then also today, breaking news out of the middle east. sources tell nbc news that israel and hamas are closing in on a deal to release some of the hostages, in exchange for a pause in fighting. and later, my wide-ranging conversation with illinois governor j.b. pritzker. we talk about trump's terrifying plans if he takes back the white house, and how democrats can beat him in 2024. >> right now, the debate over donald trump's incredibly dangerous rhetoric is not just playing out in the court of public opinion, though we see it there. it's also playing out in the court of law. tomorrow morning, an appeals court here in washington d.c. will hear arguments about what trump can and cannot say about the federal trial over his efforts to overturn an election. remember, a gag order in that case was imposed and paused and reinstated and suspended. it's been a lot to keep up with. so yes, our court system is clearly grappling with the challenges of trying a former president and current candidate turned criminal defendant. we'll talk about what happens during this appeals court hearing on our show tomorrow night, but as we saw in trump's civil fraud trial in new york, trump's intent on testing the limits of the rule of law. the gag order, whether a gag order is in place or no gag order is in place. in fact, he violated it, and was fined thousands of dollars, twice. when it was lifted, he could barely -- posting a message on truth social, calling a law clerk politically biased and out of control. in trump's eyes, he is bigger than the procedures of the court. he is outside the rule of law. and in his eyes, his political supporters, the maga base, want to hear him attacked the legal system. that's why he does it. he will push the envelope as far as he's allowed to go. and often even for the. and as we watch our court struggle to contain him, and they're having a hard time, it's become increasingly clear that his party, the republican party, might be the only institution that can actually hold him accountable. but so far, they're refusing to step up. they have tolerated trump echoing the language of genocidal dictators, routinely dehumanizing his political opponents. speaking not just of beating his enemies at the ballot box, but extinguishing them altogether. they've told rated the dark vision for america that trump is plotting for a second term. complete with sweeping raids, sprawling detention camps, and mass deportation for immigrants. with a reinstated muslim ban, and a push to unleash troops on protesters. just last night, trump wrote on truth social that 2024 is our final battle. we will finish the job once and for all. see, he's casting this not as an election, but as a battle. for a republican that doesn't speak out against that kind of thing, everyone is complicit. but we're also at a point where the party isn't just tolerating donald trump, they are following his lead. inward, and also in action. maybe that has something to do with his view of what the maga base wants, a base many republicans are scared of losing, or even just scared of in general. this violent rhetoric has triggered down to congress, where literal fighting erupted this week. if the head of the party is spouting violent rhetoric any chance he gets, i guess it's not really surprising that brawls are on the verge of breaking out in the halls of the capitol. there's a connection there. this, week in the span of one day, i'm talking about one day here, former house speaker kevin mccarthy was accused of elbowing tennessee representative tim burchett in the kidneys, a fistfight nearly broke out in the middle of a senate hearing, one senator markwayne mullin stood up from his chair to confront the president of the teamsters union, i'm not sure why that was necessary. and the chairman of the house oversight committee screamed at another representative in another hearing, calling him a smurf. i don't know what the use of that word is. but here we go. in fact, republicans tempers flared so dramatically and so publicly, that speaker mike johnson told them to take thanksgiving to cool off. but let's face it, we all kind of know they won't. because the fact is, the fish rots from the head. it always does. and donald trump remains the de facto head of the gop. now, none of this behavior should come as a surprise, given trump's role in unleashing a violent law -- the problem is, rank-and-file republicans in congress seemingly refused to learn from that history. even when it once put their lives in jeopardy. joining me now is democratic congressman dan goldman of new york. congressman, thank you so much for joining me this afternoon. i want just to start with what's been happening in the house. you are relatively new to being a member, less than a year here. but you've been around members for a long time. as you observe, it and when you speak with your veteran colleagues, have you noticed a shift in congress towards more threats and insults, even amongst each other? >> well, certainly this republican party is demonstrating it's complete dysfunction, that's now fallen into actual violence. we have been in d.c. for ten straight weeks, which is much longer than usual. but i think it's more a reflection of the fact that the house republicans, in particular, cannot get anything done. not only are they not working with democrats, they can't even resolve among themselves what they want to go forward. so tensions are incredibly high. they have a failed impeachment inquiry going on, they can't pass any legislation, they end up doing what the democrats want, because that's the only thing that can get through. and then there's a backlash from the far-right. so not only do you have wwe in one day in congress this week, but you also have a republican member of the house go to the floor, and demand that his leadership tell him one single thing that the republicans have gotten done this year that he can campaign on, because there is nothing. so this is really a civil war within the republican party, and it's a shame for the american people. because we're ready to work, we're ready to get stuff done for the american people. >> i want to also turn to trump, of course, and just some of what the reporting has been around some of these conversations, also as we anticipate a year full of troubles next year. i want to listen to a part of a convsation that he had with abc's jonathan karl about january 6th, and get your thoughts on the other end. >> you told him you are going to go up to thetal, where you just -- >> i was going to, and secret service said you can't. an then by the time i would have, and then when i get back id i want to go back. i w tnking about going back during the problem to stop the problem, doingself secret service didn't like that idea too much. >> so -- >> i could've done that. and you know what, i would've been very well received. >> so, there's been so much speculation, and contemplation and discussion about what trump wanted to do, what he did or didn't know. do you think as a prosecutor, this is something that could be useful in the case against trump? how will it be used? >> well, look. he says i would be well received, because he knows that the people that were there are his supporters who he riled up and incited to invade and riot at the capitol, and try to disrupt the proper counting of the electoral -- so every time he talks, he is putting himself into a bigger criminal hole. that's not his objective. his objective is purely political at this point. politics don't work in a courtroom, as i think he's finding out, in the new york attorney generals case. in new york, the civil case. and that's going to continue in his criminal trials. but his rhetoric is really getting dangerous. more and more dangerous. we saw what happened on january 6th, when he used his inflammatory rhetoric now, and his recent truth social post is incredibly, incredibly scary for anyone that might be trying to work in government. and it is just unquestionable at this point that that man cannot see public office again. he is not only unfit, he is destructive to our democracy, and he has to be eliminated. >> there are several hearings going on right now, back and forth's over gag orders and various cases. none of it seems to be working. what do you think -- what are the consequences that might work, and having trump dial back his language? or would anything work? >> well, i've noted that the gag orders are very specific to the case that they relate to. it is not trying to infringe on his ability to campaign or make political speech. it's really just trying to stop him from threatening witnesses, prosecutors, and judges. which of course is out of bounds. and if he continues to do that, there will be a ratchet up of penalties. it may start with fines, but it could ultimately end up with jail time. and at some point, donald trump believes he is above the law, and he is going to meet the law head first. >> i want to get your reaction to new reporting from nbc overnight that u.s. israel and hamas negotiators are closing in on a deal to release some of the hostages in exchange for a pause in the fighting. and this morning on meet the press, deputy national security advisor jon finer did confirmed that they were discussing more than a dozen hostages, so a larger number than we've seen to date. he could not confirm how many were americans and also made clear nothing is agreed of course until anything is agreed, which is always the case in negotiations. but i want to get your reaction to the possibility of this deal, which would also include a temporary cease of hostilities. >> well, this is what we all should be focusing on right now. is the release of the 248 hostages that includes 33 children and babies who have been held for 43 days in captivity by hamas. that should be the focus of the entire international community right now. it is abhorrent, it is obviously a legal, and it is treacherous. and the fact that there is a focus on other things related to what's going on, and not a real focus on releasing those hostages, so that we can have a pause, so that we can get the aid to the innocent palestinian civilians who so desperately need it, i am glad that we are getting close to it. but i hope it's more than 12. because we've got 33 children, and many more innocent women. the elderly, the innocent civilians must be released. and everyone in the international community should be putting pressure on hamas, on qatar, on iran, on egypt, to then put pressure on hamas to release those hostages. >> u.n. senator cory booker, i should know, you are both in israel on the day of the october 7th attack. sends a letter to president biden to keep pressing -- this is something that there hasn't been as much focus on until recently. yesterday, the biden administration said they're willing to put sanctions on israeli settlers involved in the attacks. is that enough, and you think this signals a shift in how the administration kind of use that aggression? >> i think that's a significant step, i was very happy to see that the president made that public. israel cannot afford to have any vigilante justice in the west bank, to incite volatility there, in sight violence there, both in terms of the near term, because the focus must be on hamas in gaza and nowhere else. israel and the u.s. must do everything possible to stave off a multi front war. but also, in terms of long term peace process, whatever israel does in the west bank is going to have an impact on how the international community views israel as a viable partner in a two state solution. which may be the silver lining of this entire dreadful situation over there, is that there may be the foundation for a two-state solution. but we need the entire international community, including the arab league, including gulf states, to both invest political capital and financial capital into a rebuilding of gaza, and a remaking of the middle east, in order to have that two state solution. that it is essential that israel take whatever necessary steps that they can to preserve that possibility. >> so, would you be open to any conditioning of aid, congressman? from the united states? >> no, there should never be conditioning of aid to israel. israel's our perhaps best partner, both militarily, democratically, diplomatically, we share a tremendous amount of information. there is a very close relationship -- and israel is a democracy that abides by the rule of law. our support for israel must be unconditional, and we should never put actual specific conditions on any aid that goes there. we should, however, as we are doing, use our relationship with israel to press them to do the necessary things for the good of not only israel, but also the broader middle east, and the global community in general. and i think that's what we're seeing president biden do. he has shown excellent and correct start support for israel, as it fights a brutal terrorist regime, that is solely focused on eliminating israel. israel as a democracy, and they abide by the rule of law, and they must abide by the rule of law. and so there's a diplomatic channel that we will use with israel to make sure that we're all on the same page. but we should not ever be conditioning aid to israel. >> congressman dan goldman, thank you very much for your time today. i hope you have a happy thanksgiving with your family. >> you too, thank you. >> coming up, a judge in colorado says donald trump can stay on the ballot. but that was not the headline that i'm taken away from the ruling. andrew weissmann and neil katyal are standing by to break it all down. and to preview tomorrow's high stakes hearing on trump's gag order. we're just getting started, we'll be right back. e just getting started we'll be right back. we'll be right back. or an unbearable itch. this painful, blistering rash can disrupt your life for weeks and could make it hard to be there for your loved ones. shingles could also lead to serious complications that can last for years. if you're over 50, the virus that causes shingles is likely already inside you. and 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