right now, and i'm glad it's you, are a, because i've modeled way way through two hours of legal staff. it's in your hands no, friend. >> you're very kind. i wouldn't go that fire, but -- i leave all, she great to see. welcome to the beat, everyone, i'm ari melber, and as we mentioned, there's a lot going on, even as we get towards the holidays, december vibes. but jack smith, making a big move today, going straight to the supreme court. that is unusual, and it tells us something about the hand he thinks he's holding. we've seen delays from the trump folks on this coup trial and they have every right to file appeals, and sometimes appeals have the consequence of delays. what's new here, ali velshi militant shunning that this is something everyone's trying to make sense of tonight, it's jack smith is moving first. he's basically calling for whatever delay or bluff the trump folks have been pushing out to be over. asking the supreme court to intervene. it's a move of confidence, doesn't mean he scan a win, but we'll get into that tonight a little later in the program. also, we'll talk about accountability. it is sometimes a long time coming in the system, but the indicted trump lawyer, rudy giuliani, in court on a different case today, facing potentially tens of millions of dollars of sanction over his defamation of two georgia election workers. so, we're gonna get to all that. but we begin with what many say is the full crisis for u.s. democracy facing us now, and whether we deal with it or not. the washington republican who so many people say did as much as anyone to admit all the scandals and the coup, continued to enable trump. kevin mccarthy, now speaking out. in ways that hold some peril for republicans next year. now, in a few moments, we're actually gonna walk through some vintage early mccarthy video that's pretty revealing. but first, we're gonna show you why he's in the news tonight. obviously, it's been a bruising year. after everything he had to do just to get the gavel, he then was ousted in one of the shortest speakership's in american history. it was humiliating. he was defenestrated by his big public enemies, including people who are not very popular in congress, like matt gaetz. and yet, after all that, the context for mccarthy here is what we all know trump claimed publicly that he will be seeking retribution a second term. donald trump is that that. donald trump may sometimes lie, he may sometimes obfuscate, but he's actually been quite a rap -- and yet mccarthy, who has literally run out of congress are his back and forth with trump, tried to suck up enough to hold his job and couldn't, now, mccarthy insists all that will change. >> what president trump needs to do in this campaign, it needs to be about rebuilding. restoring. renewing america. it can't be about revenge. >> he's talking about retribution. day in, day out. >> he needs to stop that. he needs to stop that. >> you think he's going to listen to you saying, stop that, stop that? he hasn't listened to anybody before. >> that's not true. he will adapt when he gets all the facts. >> he will adapt. adapt being another word for change, a change not being something that donald trump has done on this issue. donald trump is, of course, holding fast and strong on the election lies that fed the insurrection, that led to the defamation that relates to both giuliani in court today -- we have more on that later, and fox settling for over half a billion dollars. there's no sign of adapt. and mccarthy, of course, knows that. but mccarthy now run out of congress by maga hard-liners is trying to still somehow, and his new post congress iteration, sit around, sacking up to maga hard-liners. which he doesn't have to do. he could just be an independent citizen and kind of move past all of this. but he thinks this is what he has to do to help himself. >> i believe donald trump will win. i believe that republicans will gain more seats in the house, and that republicans will win the senate. >> can you count on your support? >> yes. >> that's an endorsement. >> i will support the president. i will support president trump. >> would you be willing to serve in the trump cabinet? >> in the right position. look, if i'm the best person for the job, yes. >> in the right position. you know, there's an almost silly, maybe practiced nonchalance that he's going for here. when we all know, if we pay any attention, that kevin mccarthy was privately horrified by the coup, and then publicly blasted it. how can you say that a coup was the wrong thing to do, was bad for america, must be stopped, that trump's responsible for it, and then say, yeah, but if there's another term, i'll just join the post coup term. that's what mccarthy says he's down for. trump's allies are, of course, pushing this loyalty pledge in a pan and power grab to push the limits of the federal government if they get power, mccarthy's own political history is back in the news tonight, because we want to look at the actual facts and context of this. as i mentioned, and, again we show the evidence, you make up your own mind. but we do know, as a matter of public fact, that right after january 6th, mccarthy was clear about trump, and only later, under political pressure, reversed himself. >> the president bears responsibility for wednesday's attack on congress by mob rioters. he should've immediately denounced the mob when he saw wh was unfolding. >> i don't see how he could be found criminally responsible. what criminal activity did he do? he told people to be peaceful. >> which is a? was he responsible for what happened? what did he tell people to be peaceful? mccarthy, when he realized that trump was not nnget in the trouble that he had thought, at least on the right, rushed down in this infamous visit to mar-a-lago. part of a long, humiliating year that still resulted in his maga defenestration. he was asked about all this in the interview. >> he went to visit trump at mar-a-lago. you threw him a lifeline. he might have been finished if he didn't go. would you do it again? >> well, that's your opinion. >> okay. that's your opinion. we also spoke to someone who is not just well-known for leading the jan sixth committee, and her recent book tour, which you probably seen in the media, but let's remember, liz cheney was in the private meetings with mccarthy. she was part of leadership. she was on the private calls, some of which later leaked. she was part of this three or four people who actually ran in the republican party, except unless they decided to let donald trump, the ex president and triple indictee, run it. so, listen to what she said about this man she served with. >> kevin mccarthy is, throughout this period, he had multiple opportunities to be doing the right thing, and each time, he did the wrong thing. and it isn't just that it is now costume's career, but it's that it cost the nation greatly. that the leader of the republicans in the house didn't lead. -- donald trump's donors, and that meant he had to help donald trump wipe away the stain of what he's done to our country. >> that is an insider, whatever you think of her, political history, or the evolution she's made, she is publicly taking an account here. she wrote it down, he served on the chances committee, and she told us in the interview about the donors and the other dirty political process here. that if she -- he really had to shore that up, but remember, he didn't say speaker. it didn't work. kevin mccarthy is in the news night because he's speaking out -- getting a preview of what happens to some of the most powerful republicans. he was in the line of succession. he was, at one point, the most senior republican in office in washington just a few months ago. what happens when you take it all away from him? well, mccarthy's case, and again, we're gonna discuss this with experts, part of this was his personality, but the humiliation he enjoyed did not make him say, to heck with the all. it made him, if anything, more eager to try to win these people back over who hate him. never forget what he went through. >> well, it's groundhog day. again. >> the root issue is this. they do not trust kevin mccarthy. >> the house is not an order. >> maybe the right person for the job of speaker of the house is in someone who has sold shares of themself for more than a decade to get it. >> wow, this is a bit of a heated conversation. >> this is an incredible moment. mccarthy is now directly engaging matt gaetz. >> the only time that we lost the conservative agenda was when kevin mccarthy went behind the republican conference. >> the office of speaker of the house of the united states house of representatives is hereby declared vacant. >> vacant. if past is prologue, than kevin mccarthy's very recent past shows you both where the republican party is headed, and, many people think, potentially into a wall if it has no adjustment process for what remains a very unpopular and indicted former president. but how did we get here? well, mccarthy used to sound much more like a standard issue republican. the 2000 republican national convention, bush versus gore, he was actually chair of the young republicans national federation. >> welcome, kevin mccarthy. >> ladies and gentlemen, i have an important announcement. al gore did not invent the internet. but the young republicans and why roc.com revolutionized it. we believe in freedom. we believe an opportunity. we believe in the free market. we believe in taking responsibility for our own future. we believe individuals can soar higher when they are unbound by the shackles of oppressive big government. abraham lincoln taught us the value of unity. theodore roosevelt taught us to dare greatly. we take the great lessons of the past and apply them to a changing future. >> that was a quarter century ago, give or take. 23 years. i just want to sit with you for a minute as we look at the evidence of how we got here in where we're going. because that kevin mccarthy, at that point in time, did not have, publicly, the hallmarks of someone who would give into authoritarian dictators. and, if you could do a time travel and put him on truth serum, i'm not sure that young person would admit that he would be joining coups. literally coups that he condemned, and a munch later, eating his words. he said freedom, opposing oppressive government. and notice, the republican presidents he shouted out -- lincoln, teddy roosevelt. at that time, and that republican party, that was a nod to a more moderate wing, and the traditions of some of the, to this day, more historically celebrated republicans. it wasn't nixon. it wasn't even reagan, whose so often quoted. and so, what we see in the long, slow, humiliating patchwork rise and very quick fall, and as i deliberately said, defenestration of this sort of political tail, it's both a lesson for the perils of authoritarian and right-wing threats and any country, america not immune, but also, at the political level, because we are dealing with politics and elections, how even doing that doesn't save your seat. it didn't save his speakership. and does that mean that other republicans can either learn this lesson as they watch this? or learn the wrong lessons and go into an election next year where there are so far right and so authoritarian, so alienating, that is with the red fizzle in the last midterms, which mccarthy oversaw, and some other setbacks, they're on a collision course with an electorate that, as best as we can tell, does not welcome the open, blatant, and sordid confession of more quds to come. i say that all with evidence. i don't mean it is rhetoric. what are the lessons here but for us as a country and the potential elections were going into? that's an important conversation we want to have a two very special guests who know a lot about this. we're together again in just 60 seconds. gain in just 6 seconds. seconds. our goal here is to put the who are all younger than you. i had to get help somewhere along the line to stay competitive. i discovered prevagen. i started taking it and after a period of time, my memory improved. it was a game-changer for me. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. people before politics. much like what we have seen. we want to find solutions. we want to move america in the right direction. we want to tell you first and foremost what has gone on here for the last hundred days. give us a report card. tell us where we're going. >> and we're back with former republican congressman -- and longtime washington observer margaret carlson. welcome to both of you. carlos, i mentioned what we've learned. you've been in this caucus in recent times. you know something about it. what do you see as the lessons in the rise and fall of kevin mccarthy? >> well, ari, number one, this is yet another example of how so many republicans are driven and motivated by fear of donald trump. they will not tell us publicly what they say about donald trump privately, because they're afraid of him. they want to hold on to power and they view getting sideways with donald trump as a risk to their positions of power. now, you have clearly illustrated that what did that get kevin mccarthy? what did donald trump to for him? when trump -- [inaudible] started attacking him? absolutely nothing. because donald trump is all about himself. so the lesson here should be pretty clear. the republican party should be about ideas, about governing principles. not about absolute loyalty to one man, a man who happens to like compulsively, and who is threatening to, yet again, diminish and disregard american institutions. >> margaret, same question. >> watching that video, ari, which i hadn't seen all those clips, i was struck by -- whatever happened to going home and spending more time with your family? he was mixing to emotions. grief, over being booted out, and denial of the reality that, you know, he may love trump all he wants, but trump is never gonna love him enough to get him a cabinet position, unless he scraping bottom and no one else will. the only moment i saw a flicker of life in kevin mccarthy -- saying, well, if he offered me the right position -- he still wants it so badly. and he'll do anything. because remember, on the day of the coup, when members were running for their lives, he came back, and his caucus, 147 of them, voted to stop the count of the vote so they could get some big electors in there. >> margaret, let me ask you, is that a kevin mccarthy thing? or just a current republican party thing? >> well, you know, there are many more enablers than there are liz cheney's. i mean, there are about three or four liz cheney's if you really want to count those who stick their heads up and put their careers on the line. but it's kind of shocking how many there are. because at certain times, in between the insurrection and when kevin went to mar-a-lago, there was a moment when republicans could've united. and they could've pushed back trump. and they've never taken the opportunity. not when the impeachment came up, not in any other time, and not now. they could probably win the election with nikki haley. it's frightening to think they might win it with donald trump. because his voters are so, you know, are so avid. but the idea of somebody standing up to trump now, isn't it a foreign idea that somebody is? like, you hear bill barr now murmuring things, but you don't hear anybody saying, i'm gonna -- that guy should not be on the ticket and i'm going to get a coalition together to get him off. just yesterday, i think it was, senator john bourassa, who's a conservative republican, who's not the weakest of them -- he endorsed kari lake in arizona. an election doesn't hire. and there are almost 100 election deniers, some of them are running for secretary of state, who may well win their elections, because nobody is taken the leadership to do anything about it. >> yeah. and karla's, having served in congress, the founders had this idea that, yeah, you have one government. all these courts that we report off our page out of the same federal treasury as the other officials in the other branches. and yet, the court system, with its problems, has held up pretty strong. the congress as a check on the executive, much less so. the founders, of course, burnish lee envisioned that those would be three fully separate branches. we know trump doesn't see it that way. i want to play a little just brief -- speaker of the house, here in the line of succession, you have all the supposed power, and this is how that then president trump, 2017, talked about him. >> kevin mccarthy, whereas kevin? there is my kevin. it follow me into the heat of battle, right kevin? >> that's my kevin. and that's how you viewed it. and you both have discussed that was a one-way relationship. but deeper than that, careless, i'm curious what you think about a situation where no one in the republican party takes seriously the idea that you're really elected, whether it's to a house seat or by your colleagues in the speakership, and you represent an independent branch. period. >> well, that certainly has been a problem for house republicans since donald trump came to office. i remember in 2017, house republicans wanted to reform the rules of the house, and then speaker ryan came in and -- [inaudible] therefore, we can do it. so this is not new. this started from day one. but i will say, yeah, of course there's a liz cheney model, which is admirable, it is a kevin mccarthy mondale, but somewhere in between, ari, is that mitch mcconnell our model, and i think one could make an argument that mitch mcconnell, even if we disagree with some of the positions he's taken, i, mean he hasn't spoken to donald trump in years now. and he certainly doesn't coordinate or check with donald trump when he's gonna make a decision and leading senate republicans. that's the other thing about this whole mccarthy dynamic and what we've seen in the house. it doesn't have to be that way. the someone else across the hallway who's shown that you can actually stand up to trump, at least sometimes, and stand up for our democracy and stay in power. >> yeah, i think -- >> he's -- >> a running overtime, margaret, i was gonna rebut it slightly, but i see my time to you, but it's only 30 seconds. >> now, go ahead, i. >> now, you, i mean. it >>, okay. you know, when mcconnell originally said it was morally irresponsible, what trump did, and then, when he pushed off impeachment, and then when impeachment came up over the insurrection, he did not, with his members, to do it. and by the way, they wouldn't be in the trouble they're in right now, because he wouldn't be able to run for president. mcconnell could've brought that about. he did not do it. >> yeah. i think it's a complex picture, because margaret is saying some of what i was thinking, i don't know how far mcconnell went. but to carlos's point, i think it is fair that he had leased as stake down different ground then the complete, total surrenders of kevin mccarthy. and i will tell you, carlos, if you have time for a terrible congressional jack, we have to keep the clock here. i don't have any magic minutes. so i have to cut it off there. that's a speaker joke. i'm sorry to everyone. carlos, margaret, nice to see you both, happy holidays as we get ready for the holidays. coming, i will tell folks we are gonna look at that florida book banned in the arguments they're making. also, rudy giuliani facing serious accountability. what's up next is a story that velshi and i were discussing in the handoff. -- offense and basically saying, you're not gonna delay him. he's going to the supreme court before trump. how does not work? we have neal katyal and joyce vance to explain. vance to explain. ♪(uplifting music)♪ along with significantly clearer skin... skyrizi helps me move wi