i will be joined by marshall warfield, known as roz on night court. so much more along with that. she weighs in on the role of the lgbtq+ community in making us laugh as part of a new documentary called outstanding. i am charge -- charles coleman junior. we have a lot to talk about. this is the sunday show. good evening. donald trump seems to make a lot of assumptions about the black community and among them being we love sneakers and sympathizers to convicted felons. perhaps his boldest assumption of late is about -- black community has lost its short- term memory. trump apparently wants us to believe that when it comes to race, donald trump the person is somehow different than donald trump the president. how else could he go to detroit last night, one of the country's blackest cities and proclaim again that he is the best president for blacks since abraham lincoln? keep in mind, trump has previously denigrated detroit as a disgrace and likened it to living in hell. he wants us to believe he wasn't the same guy who was sued for refusing to rent to black tenants and many boy -- there was a time when he called for the death penalty for five innocent black and latino teenagers in the 80s after the now exonerated young men were falsely accused of a vicious attack in central park. or maybe he wants us to forget that he is the same guy who started the birther nonsense and tried to leave the -- delegitimize the former president that pushing a big lie that he was born in kenya and not hawaii, president obama. as a huge michael jackson fan, man in the mirror is one of my favorite songs. it is possible that somebody could come up and make that change, but, except he didn't. in 2017, remember president trump was president then and he declared there were very fine people in both sides after a deadly white supremacist rally in virginia and there is also the time that he called african nations the s whole countries and i don't even think i could say on television and he's hardly made a case for support for black voters at least not with the things he has said. none of this stopped donald trump from launching a black americans for trump outreach group during a visit to a detroit church last night and he was attempting to paint president biden as the one who is the awful record on race and let's listen. >> has been the worst president for black people in the worst president for hispanic people and never been anybody so bad. >> listen, i like a bold argument as much as anyone else but even for me this is a tall order to believe. we are expected to buy into the idea that trump is better for black people in the guy who actually chose a black woman to be as vice president and who nominated the first black man to the supreme court. i'm not sure if i'm buying this. but ultimately, it is about the facts. i do care about policy and details. these things matter. i believe you should to so when it comes down to trump's own record with blacks and their voting in black voters, he likes to tout support for hbcus in the prison reform bill but nuance matters. so in a 2023 op-ed, doctor walter kimbrough pointed out that over the course of his four years in the white house donald trump tried to cut the budget and it was congress who appropriated more funding for hbcus and not donald trump. and while he does get credit for signing the first while he was in office it is important to know that this was the result of years of active some across the political spectrum before he even took his first seat at the resolute desk. still, donald trump is playing the criminal justice card hoping that black voters will feel a connection to him because he is a convicted felon? really? listen, while many may think this isn't the flex he thinks it is, some people are buying this. >> the fact that he has these felonies now and they are fake felonies but the fact that he has these would probably help his cause because there are a lot of people in the black community who have felonies. >> i am a former prosecutor and i am not sure what a fake felony is, but this is what we are dealing with. let's not get anything confused. the same guy who claims he is down with the community because he has a mug shot is also the same guy who once told police to be more violent and handling suspects. when it comes to his outreach the black community, there is what he says and then there are the receipts. do with that what you will. joining me now is pastor lorenzo who hosted the roundtable on sunday at the 180 church in detroit where he serves as senior pastor. i do want to thank you for being here. he reached out to you, donald trump did, to arrange this roundtable and basically to appeal to black voters before the november election and you told voters you thought it was a joke. talk to me about why you agreed to let him speak at your church in the first place. >> thank you for having me. we are a praying people and praying church and i am excited to see another black man in the position you are in and because we are a praying people, we believe that everybody should come into god's house regardless of politics or posturing and we want to make sure that whether it is president biden or former president trump or anybody who is power, we want to make sure they can hear the voices of those because often times we are the ones at the menu and never on the table. >> last year i recall reading an op-ed you wrote where you basically touted the infrastructure plan from the biden/harris administration in the context of wanting to strengthen detroit's super information highway essentially to provide better access to the digital divide and to lessen that. should we interpret it your allowing donald trump in your -- i want to call it adulation but supportive him at least come in your church is switching sides in terms of your political allegiance? >> i don't have a political allegiance. i don't worship a donkey or elephant. i worship the lamb of god slain for the sins of the world and anybody who can come to his house, and be prayed over, they are more than welcome and i am excited about what our current president did as it pertains to the digital divide because he is helping our community and i was excited that president trump actually physically came here where women are trafficked in a place where kids can't read or write or do math in a place that people are hurting and i was excited to see the president there. >> i want to look at this video from the congregation and the church during yesterday's event that was geared toward black voters and when you pull up to see the crowd, it seems like what we are looking at our more white trump supporters. was the audience mostly white? did that message of outreach to the black immunity hit its target? >> to be frank, i was surprised and they were famous rappers i didn't even know and might children, my 15-year-old new and i was surprised to be frank and honest with you about how many black people were actually physically in the building. i do remember walking down grand river, a place that is desolate on the west side of detroit and walking down the street and saying the former president is here if you want to come, come and they were laughing like i was when i first was approached by walk them through the front of the line through secret service. they were there. to be able to see that in terms of outreach, i did think it was something that quite frankly surprised me as well. >> that has been pastor lorenzo and thank you for your time and we do appreciate you. and now with me is reverend doctor wendell anthony the president of the branch of the naacp in detroit and a pastor there at hello chip -- fellowship chapel. let's start with your take on his visit to that church, which we were just talking about yesterday along with the reverend. what is your take away?'s >> thank you. obviously, you articulated what needed to be said within your commentary and narrative. first of all, it was in and out reach and it was an and reach and you called it right. there were more white folks there than african american folks and he was coming to charge and talk to that immunity and he did not. it is amazing to me that one can utilize the black church is a sacred institution to propel your pernicious and perilous bargaining's relative to what you want to do to propel your political concerns and it's not a question of coming in for policy. he didn't articulate any policy. he articulated the fact that he wanted to come and get some black votes and where is the policy? we believe in policy. the community that he came to needs education and you heard the pastor talk about that. they need the infusion of economic development and here putting your face on a t-shirt behind prison bars is in policy. coming in and talking about $16 billion for hbcus and education is policy. having an infrastructure bill to create jobs and opportunities in the same community that this pastor is from his policy. talking about a policy where people are treated fairly and equitably by the criminal justice system. he talked about wanting to conclude and end crime but why don't you institute the crime bill and pass the george floyd justice in policing act and that is policy. when you pass the john lewis building rights advancement act which is policy. talking about what you want to do with some kind of platinum plan and you have an opportunity to do is really frivolity and that's not policy. holding a bible upside down in front of the church talking about how you love the lord when you have never opened up the book to see what the lord says in terms of loving your neighbor as yourself, treating people like you want to be treated, i was a stranger and you took me in. i was hungry and you fed me and i was thirsty and you gave me water. i was a prisoner and you came to see me, those are policies. that is what we need. we don't need people to stand up on frivolity. we need you to come in and talk about policy. we know what you have done. the question is let's see what you will get. >> doctor anthony got i have to stop you before you preach another sermon but donald trump sat down recently for another interview and had this to say. i have so many black friends that if i were a racist they wouldn't be my friends and they would know better than anybody and fast. he said they would not be with me for two minutes if they thought i was a racist. and i am not a racist. is this an effective appeal the black voters? know you talk about policy. but at the same time, there are a portion of black electorate members, particularly black men, who feel they are not spoken to. is there a danger that donald trump may appeal to this particular demographic in a way that takes away votes from the democratic party? >> i do hear you. there is a concern relative to the people who are going for the misnomer in the miscommunication. the fact that donald trump comes in and talks about what he is done for black people, look at the record. by your fruit you should know them and you have called out what he has not done and you want them to get the death penalty and he is called black people really s whole countries and he has called other countries in addition what is happening in gaza and he is against educational enhancements and hasn't talked about a program to assist hbcus and he wants to end social security as we know it and privatize it and members are getting social security i would imagine and some of those in the church, we need to make sure that we have to look at the record. when you look at the record, it is clear. i think donald trump has assumed that he talked about a snake that a woman had pity on and took him in and she took a man and a snake, one sheep picked him up fed him and gave him clothing and that gave him everything he needed and the snake turned around and hit him and said, woman, you knew i was a snake when you took me in. don't fall for the snake because every time you do, you get bit. >> doctor anthony, thank you for your time. on this conversation, be sure to catch the documentary special, black men in america and my colleague and friend jermaine lee and i explore the intersection of race, culture and politics through the eyes of black men in america and what it means this year. this is streaming right now on nbc.com as well as on peacock. coming up after the break, how democrats plan to combat the far right vision for the future in a potential second trump term. this congressman is leading the efforts and joins me next to discuss this and the war in the justice department and how steve bannon and other allies say this is how they will be prosecuting the former president. stay with us. you are watching the sunday show on msnbc. ♪ [suspenseful music] trains. 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>> thank you for having me. and thank you for you and your network talking about it. honestly, the most important thing that any of us can do is take this dystopic agenda out of the shadows of this right wing fever swamp and make it known to the american people how extreme it is and seriously it should be taken so congressional democrats are stepping up with this task force to do our part in that regard. >> we are talking about a 1000 page outline sketch for the future of american democracy and i know this may be a tall task, but what is it in the document that concerns you the most around is becoming a reality. >> that is a tougher question than perhaps maybe it sounds like it should be. every part of project 2025 is a wrecking ball toward the government and democratic institutions and fundamental rights. i think the piece that is most disturbing is the explicit extremism embraced in this war plan for the maga right wing republicans and the fact that there are no longer any constraints and they are blasting through norms and it isn't even clear that they will be bound by the rule of law as they roll this forward. we could talk about the sweeping away of the civil service or the repopulating of the federal workforce with these vetted trump loyalists who will be from a database maintained by the heritage foundation or talk about limiting in the department of education and rolling the military into blue cities and so many aspects of this are extreme and dystopic, but is the explicitness of the extremism and the fact it comes from the highest echelons of donald trump's inner circle that troubles me the most. >> i feel like democrats have a bit of an advantage because as you point out, this isn't a secret and you do know it is coming and you know this is what the plan from the right is. so instead of being reactive, my question is what proactive steps -- you have this task force but can we see any legislation introduced or being designed to stave off some of the things that we already know are coming out of project 2025 so we are not reactionary? >> good question. we are going on offense. we do have legislation and in the previous congress we passed hr one which would have, to some extent mitigated against this to -- type of agenda and we are shorthanded in the house because we don't have the majority and we have a senate still subject to the filibuster so our ability to legislate these solutions is limited right now and the best thing i think we can do right now is to make sure that members of congress and the american people are crystal clear on what is in this 1000 page manifesto and why they need to take this so seriously. how things go in the election determine some of the tools we have available and in the unthinkable event that somehow he gets the election. but plan a is to definitively kill this thing by reelecting joe biden and vice president harris. >> the problem like that is the plan won't just die with donald trump but it will stay with other conservatives and other right-wing candidates and we have to dodge the dismantling of this because we didn't do proactively to federally legislate a woman's right to do what she wants to with her own body. we do see this coming and even if donald trump is elected, or is not elected, this is still an issue?'s right? >> i couldn't agree with you more we will have to legislate and codify all of these rights that maybe are taken away or they will be take in away in the months ahead and we will have to codify things that in the past had been the norm that we thought safeguarded our democracy and the rule of law with donald trump and his inner circle. they have taught us there are no longer any constraints and they aren't bound by norms or elements of the rule of law. we have to legislate when we win the election. that will be one of the most important things we do right away. >> thank you so much for being here. coming up next, there are republican allies who are doubling down on threats against the justice department and this is only going to intensify in a potential second term for donald trump and what does all of this mean for democracy and the rule of law? we will talk about it along with this congresswoman, a member of the house judiciary committee who will join in on that very discussion next. stay tuned for more of the sunday show. sunday show. like carpal tunnel syndrome, shortness of breath, and irregular heartbeat could mean something more serious, called attr-cm a rare