poll numbers in the debate and a top holster for the biden/harris campaign is going to join me for an exclusive interview here in studio. nancy pelosi is standing by theç president and firing back at donald trump. nancy pelosi will also be here in just a few minutes. and later, trump's supreme court repairs to rule on trump's claim of. better late than never, i guess. and some thoughts on why the real damage has already been done. done. okay. okay. let's start with the obvious. joe biden had a very bad night on friday. not joe biden himself would tell you that he had a good night, or they shouldn't tell you that. remember, the biggest concern from the president from the moment this re-election campaign darted was about his age and his ability to campaign effectively. ■ç the campaign wanted to have a debate early to shake up the race and silenced those concerns. instead, the president made the much louder. and his performance, or lack thereof, also completely overshadowed was a complete torrent of lies from donald trump in some crazy language. so no, not a good night for the biden campaign. what came next was a full-scale freak out inside several factions of the democratic party. my old boss, one going to talk to in just a minute and was one of the smartest political minds in the country, called a defcon 1 moment that night. the question was being asked here in washington and capitol hill offices and group chats all over my phone, whether joe biden should carry on as the democratic nominee.■ç our job is not to ignore those questions, because they are real. they are valid, they aren't going away. today, the president is at camp david with his family for a photo shoot. the trip was preplanned and announced a week ago, and didn't raise any alarm bells for me. but it's existence has fueled a lot of speculation about what they might discuss, given how important his family is to him, and it's not going to stop anytime soon. right now, it's also important to remember, there's no indication that joe biden plans to step aside. he and the campaign seem to be quite invested in the campaign to keep going. we saw a completely different, totally different joe biden from the one we saw on the debate stage the night or. >> i know i'm not a young man. state the obvious. well, i know.■ç i don't i don't walk as easy as i used to. i don't speak as smoothly as i used to. i don't debate as well as i used too. but i know what i do know. i know how to tell the truth. i know -- i know right from wrong. and i know how to do this job. i know how to get things done. and i know like millions of americans know, when you get knocked down, you get back up. >> one speech at one ■çrally is not going to change the dynamics of the race. it's not going to erase the debate performance from the night before, and it's not going to make those questions about biden stepping aside go away. but that one speech, and the power of that speech, especially at the end, does give you a window into his thinking. he's a competitive guy. he knows he bombed the debate. he still believes the threat the donald trump poses to the country is existential, which it is. and he still believes he can beat him. that's what joe biden thinks. and the campaign and his closest supporters have been circling the wagons around him over the last several days. i'm not going to sit here and tell you what to think, those of you out w;ñhere who have hop of joe biden with a brokered convention, you should know allç the factors there. first of all, it would have a seismic impact on the democratic party if the president stayed neutral and didn't endorse his own vice president. it would mean also a couple of thousand party insiders would be empowered to make a choice on the nominee, not the millions of democratic primary voters who already cast their ballots. it could mean positioning a talented -- the democrats are very talented, but a largely untested candidate with potentially low name identification into the national spotlight as a one person responsible for defeating trump just over two months from an election. you may still prefer that option, but you should know -- the candidate was spit out of that process and may not be her choice either. it will all be very messy and potentially very divisive.■ç it still feels very unlikely. right now, joe biden is standing by the president, the most important person in his life. barack obama is standing by him. we can discuss and debate all day long whether that is the right thing. there are reasonable and thoughtful arguments on both sides of that question, and we will discuss them over the course of the show and over the next few weeks. in the meantime, joe biden and his campaign are pushing ahead. they announced that they raised more than $33 million between debate date and this morning. more than three times as many people apply to work in the campaign and the 24 hours following the debate than on an average day. that's not to say the road ahead won't be rocky. the most important conversations they are going to be having are going to be happening behind closed doors. it's not about ■çwhat an editorial board or a top donor says. the campaign could care less about that. but they know that holding together the coalition of voters is what is important. it's not going to be easy. there will be ongoing discussions about the possibility of an ongoing discussion, and about replacing biden on the ticket. they will have to deal with those questions. they will need to mobilize prominent supporters everywhere, especially the vice president and all those democratic governors or potential candidates in 2028. they will need to announce significant endorsements, and they will need to ensure that the joe biden we watched a clip of on friday is seen and heard across the country on a consistent basis. he also can't let voters lose sight of the fact that he was the guy next to them spouted crazy conspiracies every chance he got. we show you some of president biden's first rally after the debate. let's show you some of trump's. >> remember this term, too big to rig. think of this. he had a news conference today. biden use his name in vain. >> they want electric army tanks, they want electric planes. what happens if the sun isn't shining while you're up in the air ? >> right now, you can't that on some white knight to stand between that guy and the white house, or some easy, simple uniting process. right now, there's just joe biden and all of you, the american people out there. joining me now is my old boss■ç he's a campaign manager for barack obama in 2008 and a senior adviser in the obama white house. i've been talking to lots of people, as i'm sure you have been. i just gave my rundown of my take on things. what did i get wrong there? don't hold back. >> it was a great rundown. here's the question. i think all signs point to joe biden staying in this race and being the nominee. that is his right, and really, obviously, he is the only voice that matters. and so if he does that, you know, this is a race that we were slightly behind heading into the debate. we will see where the race stands as we get more data, but cbs news just got a poll today. 72% of americans don't believe he has a mental capability to ■ç be president. 49% -- so if biden stays in this race, i have all the confidence in the world, they could run the perfect campaign. it won't get you to the win number unless that number were to get better. so the question is, what are you going to do? he's going to have to be much more aggressive with all the risk that comes with it. interviews and unfriendly places through the september 10th debate, if trump does it. that is a big thing. i learned it can be humbling to be part of the campaigns. campaigns don't change big things. they help you on the margins. there's three big things. donald trump is a super weak candidate who can be beat. people's view of the economy■ç not what we would like it to be. it's improving a little bit. how do you win that debate on the economy where joe biden has some strength, in terms of, he cares about working people? so i think a race that was already going to be hard to win is getting harder, and we just all need to embrace that. if you believe that donald trump's election is an existential threat to the country. i think probably more than slightly half of the country believes that. this is not a race you have to try to win. as joe biden is thinking about the way forward, in my humble view, you can't lose. and you got to be sure you are the right person to do that. i think he's been a great president, but we have to understand where the race is right now, which is, we are ■ç behind. we can talk about all the presidents of a bad first debates, and a bunch of them did. reagan, obama, bush, they were all ahead in their elections. we had that opportunity last thursday night. joe biden did not. he made a problem that was close to existential worse. it doesn't mean it can't be addressed, but it's going to require great strategy, great tactics, and there's risk on both sides. a whole bunch of downsides about process. there's downsides staying where we are. having worked in the white house, generally every day is deciding more options. that is kind of where we are. i think this is a race that can be won. because donald trump showed again in the debate and that awful rally afterwards why there's enough americans out there that don't want to sign up for another donald trumpbos term. right now, we are not where we want to be.■ç that's where the focus needs to be. how do we change a race where we are now heading towards a loss to a win? >> the buck stops of the candidate. just to double down on what you just said. there's lots of risks and threats. i do want to talk about the open convention possibility, which, there's no indication joe biden is dropping out or not going to run, i think it's important that they might still support that they learn more about it, what that would mean. explain to us what factors should be considered for those calling for the convention. my view is that if he doesn't endorse the vice president, that is seismic. you may disagree with me, but what are the factors people aren't factoring in here ? >> well, with the important caveat that this is likely not going to happen -- ■rut, you know, we can do that. so first of all, yes. there's a threshold question. will joe biden say, i'm not going to run, and i'd like all my candidates to support kamala harris. he could say, i want an open convention where people can make their case. governors and senators will make a decision on their own. it's kind of gross, because it's not voters. it's delegates. but you would be running a campaign. there would certainly be a lot of interviews, on msnbc d, people traveling state, meeting with delegates. smoky back rooms. that's a downside. insiders picking the new person. the political graveyard is littered with people, ron desantis being the latest member of that graveyard, who looked like they were surefire ç presidential candidates on paper. this stage is withering. people most don't survive it. maybe the party is divided. there's a bunch of downsides. there is an upside, which is, it's a younger, newer face. a lot of americans would like another choice. that provides some energy. it's a different race for donald trump to win and run, i think much harder. so i think that as is often the case around the presidency and presidential campaigns, there is no aaron sorkin screenplay here. there's downsides and challenges and upsides in each, but the people who think, we just get somebody else and they are going to walk to the white house -- that is complete bs. is a bunch of landmines in that option ■ças well. i also think there's some upsides, and i think joe biden is at the lowest point right now in terms of his campaign. i think he can grow from here. but it reminds me of 12. there are national polls that showed us tied with romney, but we knew reliably, we had a small advantage. that's where the race is right now. can joe biden overcome that? i think he can. but we should be honest about where we are, which is, without more voters saying, actually, i think he's up for this -- that's what were looking for. >> i think it's so important to be honest about where we are. they were real and important discussions people are having out there.■ç no one understands all the patents. thank you for helping me break all of that down and giving more people to digest. i really appreciate it. coming up next, house speaker emeritus nancy pelosi joins me and we discuss all of the calls for joe biden to step aside. plus, the supreme court's ruling on donald trump's claim of presidential immunity. but first, what are the numbers saying after thursday night's debate? it's all about voters. molly murphy is standing by for an exclusive interview, and she joins me next. 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fundraising appeal, claiming that the president outperforms other democrats against trump. but the pulley included show that biden's margin is actually similar to that of the potential alternatives. perhaps most notable was the way the campaign addressed the possibility that biden's poll numbers may dip in the near future. if we do see changes in polling in the coming weeks, it will not be the first time■ç that overblown media narratives have driven temporary dips in the polls. while we have not yet seen a dip in head-to-head numbers or in swing states, a new poll from cbs news showed a big swing among registered voters that said biden should not run for president. 72% of registered voters they biden should not be running, compared to 63% who said that in february. joining me now is biden/harris campaign poster molly murphy. i'm so excited to talk to you about this, because as i said earlier -- correct me if i'm wrong -- they do not care about the editorial board of the new york times. so i just referenced the cbs poll, showing nearly a 10% increase in people who think the president shouldn't run. what do you ■çmake of that poll can he win with those numbers on that question? >> absolutely. this is a question that has been asked in polls several times over the last four years, over the last eight years about whether or not the president should run. one thing that is important to note in these polls, the easiest question to ask voters is, do you want an alternative and nondescript, not detailed alternatives? it's not naming someone, it's not saying who or how. that's an easy yes for voters to answer. we see none not just of the president but with other voters in the past. what's behind door number two is always when has some appeal. we also see is on the most consequential question that we asked voters, who are you going to vote for -- that is where you continue to see voters saying they are supporting ■çth president. >> i know for doing lots of campaigns, there's all sorts of numbers floating around every campaign. what are those daily tracking poll numbers overnight saying over the last two days? >> i think that is a really important question. what the media has focused on and what a lot of the recent poll numbers that have gotten picked up focus on is, how would you rate the president's debate performance? the president is the first to say it was not his best night. that is something we have seen. what doesn't get covered as much is that voters are capable of taking on a lot. what they also took out of the debate is a majority of people who watched the debate felt like the president talked about issues that they cared about. they felt like the president came across as somebody who cares about middle and working class americans, and he camm ■ across as more presidential, more likable, more truthful. a really important contrast we've been setting up throughout this campaign. the other part that is important here is that donald trump did not have a good debate night either. voters did not like what they saw from him. >> you also did dials, and dials are going and measure. i'm sure every voter would love to be in a room when dials are happening. sometimes there are surprising moments. what works for biden -- we know a lot of what didn't work, which is kind of his energy during the debate, and his inability to push back. were there moments that worked, and what stood out in terms of moments that were concerning question marks the mac to explain to your vehicles about this, we have swing voters in the midwest.■ç each person is given a dial, a literal dial. you can turn it up as high as 100 if you love what you are hearing. you can turn it down as low as zero if you hate what you are hearing. every time donald trump opened his mouth, those dials dropped. they just plummeted. >> who are these voters? >> these are swing voters who are saying they are undecided or may change their mind on the election. they have not locked in their vote choice. they are watching this because they are trying to decide -- this is a choice between two candidates. when they saw donald trump and heard from donald trump, those dials dropped. they dropped in particular when he talked about january 6. they dropped when he talked about roe. but he doubled down on beingaki proud of overturning roe in that debate, ■ç and the voters took notice of that. and when he three times refused to say he would accept the results of the election unless he liked the results, those were the absolute bottom out moments. the president did land pretty good punches on him. some of the most standalone statements of the viewers watching, the people on our dials was wanted to, the only felon is sitting across from me in this room. that was one of the standout lines. the morals of the alleycat people really picked up on and jumped out. anytime the president was reminding voters of how untruthful and how unable