0 there's no doubt in my mind that our efforts prevented an attack on the homeland from afghanistan which was our core original mission. and everyone who served in that war should be proud. your service mattered. beginning in 2011, we steadily drew down our troop numbers, consolidated and closed bases and retrograded equipment from afghanistan. at the peak in 2011, we had 97,000 u.s. troops alongside 41,000 nato troops in afghanistan. ten years later, when the ambassador signed the doha agreement lton 29 february 2020 the united states had 12,600 troops with 8,000 nato and 10,500 contractors. this has been a ten-year multi-administration drawdown, not a 19-month or 19-day one. under the doha agreement, the u.s. would begin to withdraw forces contingent upon taliban meeting certain conditions, which would lead to a political agreement between the taliban and the government of afghanistan. there were seven conditions applicable to the taliban and eight conditions applicable to the united states. while the taliban did not attack u.s. forces, which was one of the conditions, it failed to fully honor any other condition under the doha agreement. perhaps most importantly for u.s. national security, the taliban has snnever reannounced al qaeda or broke its affiliation with them. we the united states adhered to every condition. in the fall of 2020, my analysis was that an accelerated withdrawal without meeting specific and necessary conditions, risks losing the substantial gains made in afghanistan, damaging u.s. worldwide credibility, and could precip tatd a general collapse of the afghan government resulting in a complete taliban takeover or general civil war. that was a year ago. my assessment remained consistent throughout. based on my advice, the advice of the commanders, then secretary of defense esper submitted a memorandum on 9 november recommending to maintain u.s. forces at a level between about 2,500 and 4,500 in afghanistan until conditions were met for further reduction. two days later, on 11 november 2020, i received an unclassified, signed order directing united states military to withdraw all forces from afghanistan no later than 15 january 2021. after further discussions regarding the risks associated with such a withdrawal, the order was rescinded. on 17 november, we received a new order to reduce levels of 2,500 plus enabling forces no later than 15 january. when president biden was inaugurated, there were approximately 3,500 u.s. troops, 5,400 nato troops and 6,300 contractors in afghanistan with the specified task of train, allege advise and assist, along with a small contingent of counterterrorism forces. the biden administration through the national security council process conducted a rigorous review of the situation in afghanistan in february, march, and april. during this process, the views of the joint cheechs of staff, all of us, the centcom commander, general mckenzie, the u.s. commander, general miller, and myself all given serious consideration of the administration, we provided a broad range of options. l and our assessment of their potential outcome. the cost, benefit, risk to force, risk to mission were evaluated. on 14 april, the president announced his decision and the u.s. military received a change of mission to retrograde all u.s. military forces, maintain a small contingency force of 600 to 700 to protect the embassy in kabul until the department of state could coordinate security support and assist turkey to maintain the karzai international airport and transition the u.s. military to an over the horizon security force assistance. it is clear, it is obvious the war in afghanistan did not end on the terms we wanted with the taliban now in power in kabul. although the neo was unprecedented as the largest air evacuation in history, evacuating 124,000 people, it came at an incredible cost of 11 marines, one soldier, and a navy corpsman. those 13 gave their lives of people they never met to have an opportunity to live in freedom. and we must remember that the taliban was and remains a terrorist organization, and they still have not broken ties with al qaeda. i have no illusionings who we are dealing with. it remains to be seen whether or not the taliban can consolidate power or if the country will further fracture into civil war. we must continue to protect the united states of america and it people from terrorist attacks coming from afghanistan. a reconstituted al qaeda or isis with aspirations to attack the united states is a very real possibility. and those conditions to include activity and ungoverned spaces could present themselves in the next 12 to 36 months. that mission will be much harder now but not impossible, and we will continue to protect the american people. strategic decisions have strategic consequences. over the course of four presidents, 12 secretaries of defense, 7 chairman, 10 centcom commanders, 20 commanders in afghanistan, hundreds of congressional delegation visits, and 20 years of congressional oversight, there are many lessons to be learned, two specific to the military we need to take a look at and we will, is did we mirror image the development of the afghan national army and the second is the unprecedented rapid collapse of the. afghan military in only 11 days in august. however, one lesson must never be forgotten. every soldier, sailor, airman, and marine who served there in afghanistan for 20 consecutive years protected our country from attack by terrorists, and for that they should be forever proud and we should be forever grateful. thank you, chairman, and if i could, i know that there's some issues in the media that are of deep concern to many members on the committee, and with your permission i old like to address those for a minute or two. i've submitted memoranda. >> you may proceed. >> i've served this nation for 42 years. i spent years in combat, and i buried a lot of my troops who died while defending this country. my loyalty to this nation, its people, and the constitution hasn't changed and will never change as long as i have a breath to give. my loyalty is absolute and i will not turn my back on the following. with respect to the chinese calls, i routinely communicated with my counterpart general lee with the knowledge and coordination of civilian oversight. i am specifically directed to communicate with the chinese by department of defense guidance, the policy dialogue system. these military-to-military communications at the highest level are critical l to the security of the united states in order to deconflict military actions, manage crises, and prevent war between great powers that are armed with the world's most deadliest weapons. the calls on 30 october and 8 january were coordinated before and after with secretary esper and acting secretary miller's stamps and the interagency. the specific -- which caused us to believe the chinese were worried about an attack on them by the united states. i know, i am certain that president trump did not intend to attack the chinese, and it is my directed responsibility and it was my directed responsibility by the secretary to convey that intent to the chinese. my task at that time was to de-escalate. my message again was consistent -- stay calm, steady, and de-escalate. we are not going to attack you. at secretary of defense esper's direction, i made a call to general lee on 30 october. eight people sat on that call with me and i read out the call within 30 minutes of the call ending. on 31 december, the chinese requested another call with me. the deputy assistant secretary of defense for asia-pacific policy hemmed coordinate my call, which was then scheduled for 8 january, and he made a preliminary call on 6 january. 11 people attended that call with me and readouts of this call were distributed to the interagency that same day. shortly after my call ended with general lee, i personally informed both secretary of state pompeo and white house chief of staff meld dmeld does about the call. soon after that, i attended a meeting with secretary miller and briefed him on the call. late they're same day on 8 january, speaker of the house pelosi called me to inquire about the president's ability to launch nuclear weapons. i sought to assure her that nuclear launch is governed by a very specific and deliberate process. she was concerned and made various personal references characterizing the president. i explained to her that the president is the sole nuclear launch authority and he doesn't launch them alone and that i am not qualified to determine the mental health of the president of the united states. there are processes, protocols, and procedures in place, and i repeatedly assured her that there was no chance of an illegal, unauthorized, or accidental launch. by presidential directive and secretary of defense directive, the chairman is part of the process to ensure the president is fully informed on determining the use of the world's deadliest weapons. by law i am not in the chain of command and i know that. however, by presidential directive and dod instruction, i am in the chain of communication to fulfilly legal statutory role as the president's primary military adviser. after the speaker pelosi call i convened a short meeting in my office with key members of my staff to refresh all of us on the procedures which we daily at that level. i informed miller of speaker pelosi's phone call. at no time was i attempting to change or influence the process, usurp authority, or insert myself in the chain of command. but i am expected, i am required to give my advice and ensure that the president is fully informed on military matters. i am submitting for the record a more detailed and unclassified memorandum i believe you have, although late. i'd be happy to talk about the intelligence that droech these calls. i'm happy to make available an email, phone logs, memoranda, witnesses or anything else you need to understand these events. my oath is to support the constitution of the united states of america against all enemies foreign and domestic. and i will never turn my back on that oath. i firmly believe in civilian control of the military as a bedrock principle essential to the health of this republic and i'm committed to ensuring the military stays clear of domestic politics. i look forward to your questions. thank you, chairman, for the extra time. >> thank you, general. general mckenzie, i understand you do not have a statement. is that correct? >> i waive my statement. >> thank you very much, general. secretary, the doha agreement represents direct negotiations with terrorists and not just negotiations but an agreement with them that excluded the afghan government and the allies who have been been fighting with us now since 9/11. it set a fixed departure date with conditions has indicated were not really followed consistently by the taliban. as you considered in april what to do, did the intelligence suggest to you that reneging on the departure of the troops would lead to significant attacks against american and allied military forces? >> chairman, my recollection, the intelligence was clear that if we did not leave in accordance with that agreement, the taliban would recommence attacks on our forces. >> and they would include any means they could use to attack american forces. >> that's correct, chairman. >> so the choice was in many respects, were we going to incur additional casualties indefinitely in afghanistan. that's one way to look at it. is that fair? >> that's correct, chairman. you certainly would have to do -- take additional measures to be able to defend yourself if the taliban recommenced their offensive operations against us. general milley and general mckenzie, did the doha agreement affect the morralale of the afg forces? was there a sense now that even though it was months away that the united states was leaving since we had agree to leave? >> i'll let frank talk to the details but my assessment is yes, senator, it did affect the morale of the forces. >> general? >> i believe it did negatively affect the forces particularly by some of the actions the government of afghanistan was required to take under an agreement. >> one of the critical issues was the agreement to withdraw contrac contractors, basically the engine that maintains the air force of afghanistan and many other logistical operations and that was just as critical as the troop departure, i would assume. >> chairman, it feels. we had plans in place to try to conduct those operations from over the horizon. they were not as effective as having contractors on the ground onsite with the aircraft. >> the momentum appeared to be shifting to the taliban. indications were their penetration in parts of the country in the northern sections particularly, which traditionally oppose the taliban, the northern alliance, but that started -- to be fair, that started long before doha. there are some commentators who suggest that since 2014 the taliban have been surrounding provincial capitals, insinuating themselves into the politics of the local communities, striking bargains. is that your impression, too, general mckenzie? >> sir, i think it is a good assessment from 2014 on the taliban pursued that strategy and had some success. the government of afghanistan had success holding on to centralized urban areas and population centers. but the taliban pursued a distinct strategy and had some success with it. >> secretary halston, you did provide the best military advice to the president regarding the situation in afghanistan and as has been recounted several times there were multiple meetings and he received the advice of many different orders. do you feel you had the opportunity to make your alleged vice very clear? >> i do, chairman. as i've said before, i always keep my advice to the president confidential, but i am very much satisfied that we had a thorough policy review and i believe that all of the parties had an opportunity to provide input and that input was received. >> thank you very much. senator. >> thank you, mr. chairman. it was two weeks ago that we had a closed, classified hearing. we had general miller's recommendation at that time. let me first of all just mention that during the confirmation process you committed -- speaking now to general mckenzie and general milley -- to giving your honest and personal views to this committee, even if those viewings were different from those of the administration, and i'm confident you will be doing that. during this hearing that we had, it was emphasized to us from general miller that we -- he was recommending that 2,500 troops in afghanistan. now, we didn't receive the documentation from your offices, i approach tosay to the witness until 10:35 last night, so there really wasn't time to get into a lot of the detail ls. but i'd ask general mckenzie, did you agree to the recommendation that general miller had two weeks ago? >> senator, again, i won't share my personal recommendation to the president, but i will give you my honest opinion, and i recommended we retain 2,500 troops in afghanistan and also recommended earlier in the fall of 2020 we maintain 4,500 at that time. those with my personal views. i also have a view that the withdrawal of those forces would lead inevitably to the collapse of the afghan military forces and eventually the afghan government. i understand that. general milley, i assume you agree with that in terms of the recommendation of 2,500. >> what i said in my opening statement and the memoranda that i wrote back in the fall of tw2020 remained consistent and i do agree with that. >> this committee is unsure whether general milley's recommendation ever got to the president. you know, obviously there are conversations with the president, but i would like to ask general mckenzie, i think you've all made this statement, did you talk to the president about general miller's recommendation? >> sir, i was present when that discussion was heard, and i'm confident that the president heard all the recommendations and listened to them very thoughtfully. >> one of the recommendations made by the three of you would be the recommendation that virtually was made by general miller's -- to weeks ago. during the august 18th interview on abc, george stephanopoulos asked president biden whether u.s. troops would stay beyond august 31st if there are still americans to evacuate. president biden responded, and this is a quote, if there's american citizens left, we're going to stay to get them all out. this didn't happen. the -- president biden's decision resulted in all the troops leaving, but american citizens are still trying to get out. how many american citizens is it your opinion are still there? just go down the line, each one of you. anyone? >> senator, i would defer to the state department for that assess m ment. that's a dynamic process. they've been contacting the civilians that are in afghanistan. and, again, i would defer to them for definitive numbers. >> mm-hmm. go ahead. others? >> same as the secretary just said. there were numbers at the beginning of the process with the f-77 report out of the embassy, and we know that we took out almost 6,000, i guess it is, american citizens, but how many remain -- >> do all of you agree that secretary of state blinken, when he made his analysis as to how many people would be here but would still be there, talked about 10,000 to 15,000 citizens left behind, and the -- and then evacuated some 6,000, that would mean a minimum of 4,000 would be -- would still be there? anyone disagree with that? by your silence i assume you agree. >> i have no -- i don't -- i personally don't believe there are 4,000 american citizens still left in afghanistan, but i cannot confirm or deny that, senator. >> i see. the secretary of state was probably wrong in his analysis. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you. just for the record, the chair and the vice chair/ranking member have each abided by the five-minute rule. fair to iis fair. >> thank you, mr. chairman and secretary austin, general milley and general mckenzie being here this morning and senator austin and general milley, thanking you for your effort to put into some historical perspective what happened in afghanistan and for recognizing the incredible surveillance and sacrifice of the troops who served there. general milley, in a hearing before the senate appropriations subcommittee on defense in june, i explicitly raised concerns about the risk to afghans due to our withdrawal and i asked about the department's plans to evacuate them. now, you indicated today that you thought we might be facing a kind of desperate situation that we saw in kabul, but your response at that time was that, quote, lots of planning was ongoing and this is -- end quote -- and the state department was leading efforts pertaining to evacuating our afghan partners. you explicitly told the committee that in your professional opinion you did not see saigon 1975 in afghanistan. so i'm just trying to figure out why we missed from a public perception it appears that we didn't anticipate the rapid fall of afghanistan and kabul and the rise of the taliban in the way we saw it play out on television. and what did we miss? >> i think, senator, we absolutely missed the rapid 11-day collapse of the afghan military and the collapse of their government. i think there was a lot of intelligence that clearly indicated that after we withdrew that it was a likely outcome of a collapse of the military, a collapse of the government. moeps of those intelligence assessments indicated that would occur late fall, perhaps early winter, kabul might hold till next spring. it depends on when the intel assessment was written. so after we leave, the assessments were pret city v ti cons -- pretty consistent you'd see a general collapse of the government and the military. while we were there, though, up through 31 august, there's no intel assessment that says the government is going to collapse and the military is going to collapse in 11 days that i'm aware of. and i've read i think prism all of them. so, and even as late as the 3rd of august, and there's one on the 8th of august, et cetera, they're still talking weeks, perhaps months. general mckenzie can illume nate on the same topic. he gave his assessments at the same time. and although general miller did in many assessments say rapid, fast, harmdd for collapse, he centered into the november time frame as opposed to august. >> how did we avoid that happening again? >> we had some indicators but didn't have the full wholesome assessment of leadership, morale, and will. there were some units, and i don't want to say negative things about these guys, 60,000, 70,000 of the afghan surveillance killed in action over the last 20 years, and many units did fight at the very end. but the vast majority put their weapons down and melted away from a very short period of time. i think that has do with will, leadership, and i think we still need to try to figure out exactly why that was. and i have some suggestions but i'm not settled on them yet. but we clearly missed that. i think one to have key factors we missed it for was we pulled our advisers out three years ago. when you pull alleged visors out of units, you can no longer assess train, leadership, and will. we can count intel assets but you can't measure the human heart with a many schine. >> thank you. secretary, you may want to respond to this on the next round. but one of the challenges with getting special immigrant visa applicants out of afghanistan has -- this wasn't just a problem in the evacuation. this has been an historic problem that has gone over years. that's having the documents that show they actually served with our military. and dod has been cited as the major problem in getting those documents. so, again, how do we make sure that doesn't happen again in some future conflict where we need our partners on the ground to serve alongside of our military members? and i'm out of time. thank you. >> thank you, senator shaheen. >> chairman reed, before i ask my questions, i have an objection. we've been having hearings in a classified setting. our first public hearing. and i'm sorry senator kaine haas to step away, but in a previous hearing he expressed frustration in various hearings he'd been to, a frustration that i shared, that when the state department is here and we ask them a question, they say, well you have to ask the defense department that. and now today again, defense department people are before us and a question was asked and the answer to the senator was, well, you have to ask the state department that. senator kaine gently but fatherly sent a message to the administration at our last classified hearing that we need to cut that out, that members of the defense department need to be ready for the questions that we have asked and that we're going to ask. so i object to the continuation of that in this hearing today. while i'm at it, i would also point out general milley, i appreciate your statement and i read it and i understand what you're trying to say. but further than what you mentioned, the allegation is that you told combatant commanders to report back to you. our clear understanding is that they are not in the -- you are not in their chain of command that they report directly to the commander in chief through the secretary. and so to the extent you told them to report to you, they were not in your chain of command. let me see if i can get one question in here, having taken two minutes to mention a very important ox. general milley, fall of 2020 you said a withdrawal would damage u.s. credibility. on july 8 president biden said the likelihood there will be taliban overrunning everything and owning the whole country is highly unlikely. we now know he was advised this might happen. it was completely untrue, that statement on july 8. later in july, president biden said i trust the capacity of the afghan military, better trained, better e equipmented and more competent in running the war. president biden was wrong on that. we told our interpreters, our driver, our friends, the people who had had our backs during this entire period of time that we would not abandon them, and that's exactly what we did. and in an interview that's already been referred to on network news, president biden assessment, and i quote, if there's american citizens left, we're going to stay and get them all out. two days later the president of the united states said unequivocally, any american who wants to come home, we'll get you out. our commander in chief did exactly the opposite. i think you were right, general milley, when you advised that our credibility would be damaged. our credibility has been gravely damaged, has it not, general milley? >> i think that our credibility with allies and partners around the world and with adversaries is being intensely reviewed by them to see which way this is going to go, and i think that damage is one word that could be used, yes. >> yes. secretary austin, no question that this sends a disastrous message to china and russia. what message does it send to our nato allies and other allies around the world about not only our credibility but our national resolve? >> thanks, senator. what the world witnessed is the united states military evacuating 124,000 people l out v v out of a contested environment in 17 days. >> you testified that was a great accomplishment, our withdrawal and our evacuation. what about our credibility? >> as i engage my counterparts, i think our credibility remains solid. clearly, senator, there will be people who question things going forward, but i would say that, you know, the united states military is one that -- and the united states of america, people place great trust in confidence in. and relationships are things we have to work on continuously. we understand that and we'll continue to do that. >> thank you, senator. senat senator? >> thank you, mr. chairman. i'm also very grateful to our surveillance member who is commits do much over the last 20 years, and i do want to thank president biden for taking the tough yet necessary step to stop and end an endless war, something that many of us have pushed for over the last decade. there's still a lot to do both overseas and at home such as ensuring that afghan refugees are treated respectfully and responsibly both on a dod basis such as ensuring that they can be transitioned into their new lives in the united states. we also have the responsibility to our troops and to all americans to make sure that we have a complete picture of what we did, plishged, and happened over the last 20 years across all the administrations. we have to look back so that we can do better when we look forward. one way to do better is to make sure congress maintains and fulfills its constitutional responsibility. we have to put back so the hands of congress the right and responsibility to declare war. what started as a mission to defeat al qaeda in afghanistan and the per sooeched threat in iraq expanded to 20 years of war in multiple countries with hundreds of thousands of lives lost and trillions of dollars spent. this is why i endorse it would war powers reform resolution so congress can take back this responsibility for the benefit of our service members. congress must set clear and defined goals for the use of military force abroad and place a limit to how long, where, and against whom we can continue military action without a new authorization in order to finally put a stop to endless wars and prevent them in the future. second, there should be a comprehensive, rigorous, and objective audit on the war in its entirety. over the last 20 years the united states spent more than $2 trillion on the war in afghanistan and we lost thousands of american lives and tens of thousands of afghan civilians. i commend the specialment in or the general for afghan reconstruction for it independent and octoberive oversight of the afghan reconstruction. but i do have questions beyond that. first, general milley, in your testimony, you said -- you mentioned that there are many lessons to be learned. what did you mean by that statement? >> senator, thank you. i think there's a series of strategic lessons to be learned, and i would echo some of the ones that senator reed mentioned early on. v. specific military lessons we have to take a hard look at. the united states military was tasked under the 2002 agreement to train, man, and equip the afghan army. the germans were required to train, arm, and equip the afghan police. as we built that army and all its components, i think that one error we may have made over time as we made them too dependent on technology, too dependent on our capabilities, didn't take in the cultural aspects as much as we should have, and mirror imaged. that's a big lesson. we have to take a hard look at it. the result is when you pull contract contractors you pull troops is one factor. that's a big lesson. the other is an intel lesson. there's a lot of other lessons, legitimacy of the government, corruption of the government. both things are out there as to why that government collapsed as rapidly as it could. but those are for others to sort out. there are lessons we need to pull out within the military. i of also read -- i've read various opinion pieces. i know everyone here is deeply disturbed that the training of afghan military did not perform as expected. if they had performed as expected, would we have seen a prolonged civil war? what is your estimate of what the impact of them actually fighting would have been? >> my estimate is if they had, you know, performed as we expected them to perform, that the government would still be there, they would have probably lost significant chunks of territory, but kabul would be there and some of the major provincial capitals. but you old get a more granular view of that from general mckenzie. >> general mckenzie? >> i think had the afghan military fought we would probably have seen the approach tosca buell get into the winter still under the control of the government of afghanistan. a lot of the outlying provinces would not have been. i would note it wasn't so much a collapse of the afghan military as collapse of the afghan government writ large. those two things happened together and they were completely linked together. when you consider one, i think you have to think about the other. >> additionally in retrospect, one of the areas of debate has been whether we should have startled our evacuation earlier. and i recognize that the government asked us not to start our evacuation early. can you speak to what you now know and whether it would have been smarter and more effective if we started to evacuate personnel a year in advance or six months in advance or any time in advance? >> could i ask the senator to -- >> i apologize. i didn't realize my time was expired. i'm submit that for the record. >> senator fisher, please. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i, too, would like to thank our military men and women for their dedication to this country, for the sacrifices that they and their families make in any theater of war and make every day for us. but our exit from afghanistan was a disaster, and the missteps that are already outline of scrimmaged had consequences that struck close to home. as a nebraskan, corporal page was one of the 13 killed in action. and we should not forget we have policy discussions here today, but let us remember the human sacrifice. we also left american citizens behind. general milley, in your written testimony you state a withdrawal would increase risks of regional instability, the security of pakistan and its nuclear arsenals, a global rise in violent extremist organizations, our global correct would suffer, and the their tich of abandoning the afghans would become widespread. would you agree that all of these things have happened over the last eight weeks or are currently happening? >> i think in the main, yes, senator. most of those are probably happening right now. >> arnond i home that we see ine future military advice having more consideration by the administration on what will happen from what you and general mckenzie have said today. >> if i may, senator, i can tell you with 100% certainty that the military voice was heard and was considered. >> it was considered but not followed. correct? >> presidents are elected for reasons. they make strategic decisions. >> i would say this committee, general, has always stressed that commanders on the ground should be listened to. would you agree with that? >> i would and i would tell you they were listened to. i think there's a difference between us having an opportunity to have a voice and i think it's very important that the military has a voice, but i firmly believe it's in the control of the military and i am required and the military commanders are required to give our best military advice but the decisionmakers are not required to follow that advice. >> no, they are not. i agree with you about civilian control of this country, but i think it is also important to realize, when we continue to see missteps by an administration that's costing lives. secretary austin, it's been reported right now that the biden administration reached out to russia about using russian bases in the central asian nations bordering afghanistan to the north for our strike assets to fly out of for the -- over the horizon counterterrorism mis missions. is that true? >> senator, this is an issue that i believe came up during our conversation that the president had with president putin where president putin offered to offer -- to provide assistance. >> but have you reached out to the russians asking specifically to use bases? >> general milley just recently had a conversation with his russian counterpart -- >> so the reports are true that have been coming out today? >> i can assure you that, you know, we are not seeking russia's permission to do anything. but i believe, and general milley can speak for himself, i believe he asked for clarification on what that offer was. >> i have a number of questions which i'll need to get to with general mckenzie about over the horizon and the capabilities as we look to the future and what's available there. but i think it's -- what we're seeing in the reports today about asking to use russian bases, that's just another example that we see the biden administration, they've really left us in a terrible position that we have to ask the russians to be able to protect the united states from terrorists. and we have to ask them to use their installations. thank you. >> i would re-emphasize, senator, we're not asking the russians for anything. >> but you're negotiating and trying to get these bases to be able to use their installations, because afghanistan is a land-locked country, and when we have explanations from the military and they give examples for the over the horizon and use countries like yemen and libya and somalia, that does not take into consideration that afghanistan is landlocked, and we have to depend on pakistan to give us air space to fwetd there. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, senator. senator blumenthal, please. >> thanks, mr. chairman. i want to express my vote that this hearing is just the beginning, a first step in an in-depth analysis going not just the last ten weeks or even ten months but ten years and longer back so we can match the courage of the men and women of america who have sacrificed during this 20-year war, all of them, and all their families, not just in afghanistan but around the world. and we know the veterans of america much more than we're giving them right now because they have earned it. that in-depth analysis looking backward is soshessential but it to look forward right now to what is happening in afghanistan with respect to americans and our afghan allies. after our withdrawal it was left to an unofficial network or coalition of veterans, next gos, some government officials, i was involved in an effort through chartered planes, airports outside of kabul to try to airlift on a makeshift ad hoc basis americans and afghan allies still there. they have targets on their back. their situation is increasingly urgent and frustrated by the lack of someone in charge, lines of authority, a point person. we need an evacuation czar, somebody who will have a plan and supervise actions so that we can get out of afghanistan, the americans that remain there. and i will tell you, we don't have an estimate on the number because nobody is in charge right now. so let me ask you, secretary austin, who at the department of the defense has overall responsibility with joemoversee the effort to evacuate? >> as you know -- well, first of all, senator, thank you for -- to you and your colleagues for all that you've done to continue to help to get american citizens out of afghanistan. the state department following the departure of the military, the state department remained engaged and continued to work to get american citizens out. and as we've seen, some 85 american citizens and 79 legal permanent residents have departed via the kabul airport. and so that work continues on. the state department set up a cell to continue this work and develop a mechanism. that cell is heladed up by ambassador bass. you may recall he was one of the senior counselors on the ground as we were conducting the investigation. i have a general officer that is a part of that cell, and we have reached out to -- or ambassador bass has reached out to veterans groups and others who may have information that can help us continue to contact and eventually evacuate american citizens and lesprs. this work continues and we remain xhiltded to get ouz v out as many american citizens that are willing to come out. >> well, there was a point, and you can call it the eye of the storm, when the taliban had taken over the country but really wasn't in charge when we could have evacuated a great many more americans and our afghan allies. the translators and others, guards, security officers, and i feel that the administration was on notice, in fact, a group of us went to the white house in the spring and urged that there be a plan for evacuation. and unfortunately, the withdrawal prevented there from being anybody on the ground and in the wake of that withdrawal there was a vacuum of leadership and i would hope that there would be more effective action now to put somebody in charge and develop a plan because we know that there are many americans, whether it's green card holders or citizens or others still there l. in connecticut we have a resettlement organization so individuals who are still there, more than 40 in kabul and through other organizations similarly know of such americans who are still there. thank you. >> thank you, senator. do you ever present that assessment personally to president biden? >> i don't discuss what my conversations are with a sitting president in the oval office but i can tell you my personal opinion. >> general mckenzie, do you share that assessment? >> i do share that assessment. >> do you ever present that opinion personally to president biden? >> i'm not going to be able to comment on those executive discussions. >> did general miller ever present that opinion personal i vly to president biden? >> i believe his opinion was well heard. >> secretary austin, president biden last month in an interview with george stephanopoulos said that no military leader advised him to leave a small troop presence in afghanistan. is that true? >> senator cotton, i believe that -- well, first of all, i know the president to be an honest and forthright man and secondly -- >> it's a simple question, secretary austin. he said no senior military leader advised him to leave small troop presence behind. is that true or not? did these officers and general miller's recommendations get to the president personally. their input was received by the president and considered by the president for sure. in terms of what they specifically recommended, senator, as they just said, they're not going to provide what they recommended in confidence. >> i mean, it sounds to me -- it's shocking to me. it sounds to me like maybe their best military advice was never presented personally to the president of the united states about such a highly consequential matter. let me move to another recommendation they were reported to have made. general milley, joe biden said it was the unanimous recommendation of the joint cheechs that we not maintain a military presence beyond august 31st. we heard testimony to that effect today as well. when was that unanimous recommendation sought and presented to the president? >> are you talking about the 31 august -- >> yes, the 31 august deadline. >> onta 25 august i was asked t provide military assessment and military advice -- >> my time is limited. you gave the answer i needed to hear. august 25th? >> correct. >> kabul fell on august 15th. >> that's correct. >> you were not asked before august 25 snth. >> on august 25th i was asked for my best military assessment whether we should keep military forces past the 31st. >> secretary austin, was anybody asked before august 25th if we should keep troops at the kabul airport? >> this is -- the president asked us to provide an assessment on whether or not we should extend our presence beyond august 31st. as general milley just said, that assessment was made. we tasked him to make that assessment on the 25th and he came back and provided his best military advice. >> secretary, kabul fell on august 15th. it feels clear that we had thousands of americans -- clear to members of this committee through phone calls, thousands of americans in afghanistan behind taliban lines on august 15th and it took ten days to ask these general officers? i suspect the answer might be a little different if you were asking them 16 days out, not 5 days out. again, my time is limited. i want to move on to another matter. president biden's evacuation screwed things up coming and going related to afghan refugees. we brought out thousands with no potential connection about whom we know nothing and cannot be effective vetted. you now have female troops who have been assaulted, afghan evacuees committing sex crimes at ft. mccoy. what are we to make of this? what steps are we taking to ensure that thousands of afghans about whom we know nothing are not going to be a menace to our troops and our military bases and to the communities in sto which they'll be released? >> i'm aware of the allegations and take them seriously. i can assure you that our commanders at our bases have what they need to be able to protect our troops and our families that work and live at those bases. and i'm in contact with the northcom commander who has overall responsibility for the operation on a routine basis. and this is an area that he remains focused on. >> general milley, i can only conclude that your advice about staying in afghanistan was rejected. i'm shocked to learn that your advice wasn't sought until august 25th on staying past the august 31 deadline. i understand that you're the principal military adviser, but you don't decide, the president decides, but if all this is true, general milley, why haven't you resigned? >> senator, as a senior military officer, resigning is a really serious thing. it's political act if i'm resigning in protest. my job is to provide advice. my statutory responsibility is to provide legal advice or best military advice to the president, and that's my legal requirement. that's what the law is. the president doesn't have to agree with that advice. he doesn't have to make those decision just because we're gen generals. it would be an incredible act of political defiance for a commissioned officer to just resign because my advice is not taken. this country doesn't want generals figuring out what orders we are going to accept and do or not. that's not our job. the principal role in the military is critical. in addition, from a personal standpoint, my dad get a choice to resign at iwo jima. kids at abbey gate don't get a choice to resign. i'm not going to turn my back on them. they can't resign so i'm not going to resign. if the orders were illegal, that's different. but if they're legal from a civilian authority, i intend to carry them out. >> senator. >> do i understand you correctly, general mckenzie and general milley, that your personal recommendation was that the troops remain in afghanistan, a certain number of them, beyond the august 31st deadline? >> no, senator. our recommendation, this is the joint chiefs of staff, this is myself included, general mckenzie, major general donahue, the ground tactical commander, 82nd airborne division, and the admiral. every sing of us were in a tank. i brought them up. secretary austin did not show up. there's no political pressure, no expectation of consensus. every one of us evaluated the military conditions at the time on the 25th, and we made a unanimous recommendation that we end the military mission in transition to a diplomatic mission. >> thank you. while you temped that you may have had the personal recommendation and i think in your case, general mckenzie, in the fall of 2020 or it might have been general milley, that by the time we're evacuating everyone, that was not a recommendation that you personally held. absolutely not. at that point on the 25th of august, no. >> thank you. >> the 25th of august we recommended the mission end on the 31st. >> thank you for that clarification. so the evacuation was chaotic, and yes, we are really grate that feel our military performed magnificently and evacuating over 120,000 people. secretary austin, blinken acknowledged that no one believed the afghan government and military could collapse as rapidly as it did, especially in the first weeks of august. however, u.s. forces conducted at least a couple of air strikes in the middle of july aimed at blunting the taliban's rapid advance. in july you were aware that the situation was deteriorating rapidly by july. why wasn't action take on the
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