good evening. our big story tonight. america and guns. michael moore. in the ten years since he made the oscar-winning "bowling for columbine" he's never once given an interview in the wake a mass shooting. that changes tonight. michael moore is ready to talk after the aurora tragedy. tonight, he answers your questions. is gun control the answer? how do we protect america's rights? does his country have a culture of violence? the important conversation for america. joining me now exclusively for the hour is michael moore. michael, thank you for joining me. i've noticed that you have barely said a word since what happeneded in co ed iin colorad. >> first thing i want to say is i'm loathe to be here frankly. as you pointed out, i've never gone on tv after any of these shootings since i made "bowling for columbine." i'm not a pundit. i'm not an analyst. i don't want to participate in the existing debate that's going on about whether or not you should be able to have as many guns as you want to have or that guns are even the problem. i think both conservatives and liberals are half right, each of them, on this issue. the conservatives when they say guns don't kill people, as you said, i would alter that to guns don't kill people, americans kill people. we do this more than anybody else. of the 23 richest countries, over 80% of all gun murders happen in one country, ours. the left, liberal, believe if we just have more gun control laws, all the problems are going to go away. well, i don't think so. i thinkreduced. there's no question about that. if that individual in aurora had not had so many magazines, not so many people would have been shot. less guns will mean less murders. but it won't really get rid of the larger problem because we, as a culture, live in a very different -- this is really the discussion i wish, piers, people would have. what is it about us as americans? we're not any better or worse than you brits. or the japanese. or the canadians or whatever. yet in japan, less than seven gun murders every year. in canada, about 200. in the uk, around 40 a year. in a nation of i don't know what do you have 70 million people. this is -- why here? why us? you can't say it's because of the violent movies and the violent video games. i got to tell you, those canadian kids right across the river from detroit, they're watching the same violent movies and playing the same violent video games. in that city across from detroit, most years they have one, maybe zero, murders a year, in windsor, ontario. >> it's interesting, michael. you mentioned japan there. japan is a fascinating piece. which appeared today in "the atlantic." by a guy called max fisher. he explains why japan has almost no gun related homicides at all. i mean at all. in 2008, when america had 12,000 firearm-related homicides, japan had 11. that was a big year. in 2006, it had 2. then he gets into the really interesting bit. which is why there's a cultural difference i think between somewhere like japan and america. he says america's gun law begins with the second amendment's affirmation of the right of the people to keep and bear arms and narrows it down from there. japanese law starts with the 1958 act which states that no person shall possess a firearm or firearms or a sword or swords. in other words, it begins from a completely opposite genesis. in japan, no guns, no gun crime. >> those laws, that constitut n constitution, first of all, in the ja pan, we wrote it, we wroe it after world war ii. we didn't write that into the japanese constitution. we didn't want to make sure all the japanese were armed. we have this violent past. the wild west. we just have all these guns around forever. well, mm, japan, violent past. yeah. germany. violent past maybe? maybe a history of maybe 1,000, 2,000 years from the huns to the nazis. very violent people. and yet they don't kill each other now. they don't shoot each other with guns. why is that? that's the discussion i want to have. what is it about us that wants to do this? i know you think if we just got rid of all the guns, we would just get rid of all the gun murders. i don't think anybody really thinks that can happen in this country. certainly strong gun control laws will reduce the number. australia. 1996. had a mass murder. as most countries do have their own mass murder. norway, last summer. scotland. the schoolyard. number of years ago. so most country do get this because there are insane people everywhere in the world and they've existed since cain killed abel. okay. so this not a new thing. individual on friday, early friday morning in aurora, probably just as lunatic as everybody else who's done this. the difference is, as you point out, is that he was able to get guns and ammo as if he were getting a car wash. as if he were getting bubble gum. as if he were -- it was nothing. and that is a huge, huge problem. but i think that there's something very unique about us. because it's not that, again, these countries are any better than us. the british empire i think you guys ruled the world at the barrel a gun for a couple hundred years. there's nothing new about people who have a violent culture doing bad things. so why is it your countries with these pasts, that have these violent cultures, and you're watching the same violent movies, and actually you have more broken homes. because you have a higher divorce rate in great britain than you have here. you have more people that go to church here and believe in god than any other western country. so, really, what's the real reason? what's the real reason that we want to have a quarter billion guns in our homes? what are we afraid of? >> here's what i see just a fundamental flaw in the american gun culture. apparently since friday there's been a 41% rise in people in colorado seeking registration to own a gun. a firearm. and they're doing so quite obviously because they have been persuaded by the pro-gun lobby debate in the last few days. been very dominant, as it always is. that they would be safer if they had had a firearm. if they were in that movie theater at the time. if they'd all been armed this character wouldn't be able to carry out what he did. it really -- it angers me that people are reacting like this. because the answer is simply not to flood the whole of america with more guns. this character was not only armed to the teeth, he was protected to the teeth. he had very carefully planned out full body armor, helmets, everything. he wasn't going to get taken down. >> and that same spike, by the way, occurred when president obama became president. a huge run on -- after the election, people buying guns. what are they afraid of? while the people in colorado i guess they're afraid -- afraid to go to the movies. now everybody's going to bring a gun to the movies? i mean, i just really want to say to people, you're not living in a movie. this tragedy may have happened in a movie theater but you're not in a movie when you're in a movie theater. let's say you have a gun on you and a guy is there. he lets off a canister. remember, he's got a semiautomatic gun so he's popping people very quickly every second. you're going to somehow get your gun out and you're back in row 15 and you're somehow going to find that guy in the gas and shoot him and take him down. i mean, really. we have to get real here. come back to reality. that is not the problem. that is not how we're going to solve the issue. the issue of last week is that we have serious mental health problems with people in this country. we're in the 21st century. we're not in the fifth century bc. we should be able by now to provide the necessary free help to people who are troubled. >> right. i want to company back ae back you about the right to bear arms. about the crucial passages in the second amendment which so many americans use as their absolute justification for owning guns. ♪ [ female announcer ] pop in a whole new kind of clean. with new tide pods. just one removes more stains than the 6 next leading pacs combined pop in. stand out. than the 6 next leading pacs combined this is new york state. we built the first railway, the first trade route to the west, the greatest empires. then, some said, we lost our edge. well today, there's a new new york state. one that's working to attract businesses and create jobs. a place where innovation meets determination... and businesses lead the world. the new new york works for business. find out how it can work for yours at thenewny.com. you know what's exciting? graduation. when i look up into my students faces, i see pride. you know, i have done something worthwhile. when i earned my doctorate through university of phoenix, that pride, that was on my face. i am jocelyn taylor. i'm committed to making a difference in people's lives, and i am a phoenix. visit phoenix.edu to find the program that's right for you. enroll now. his morning starts with arthritis pain. and two pills. afternoon's overhaul starts with more pain. more pills. triple checking hydraulics. the evening brings more pain. so, back to more pills. almost done, when... hang on. stan's doctor recommended aleve. it can keep pain away all day with fewer pills than tylenol. this is rudy. who switched to aleve. and two pills for a day free of pain. ♪ and get the all day pain relief of aleve in liquid gels. wouldn't it be nice if there was an easier, less-expensive option than using a traditional lawyer? well, legalzoom came up with a better way. we took the best of the old and combined it with modern technology. together you get quality services on your terms, with total customer support. legalzoom documents have been accepted in all 50 states, and they're backed by a 100% satisfaction guarantee. so go to legalzoom.com today and see for yourself. it's law that just makes sense. so go to legalzoom.com today and see for yourself. so, why are we up here? because farmers offers a new-roof discount? [ thudding ] oh, boy. yep. and it's an agent's job to help people find new ways to save. there's some cool stuff up here. there sure is. [ man ] look what i found. it's a fiddler on the roof. ♪ [ up-tempo country ] what are the chances? [ announcer ] we are insurance. ♪ we are farmers bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ once upon a tyime, there wee these people in europe called pilgrims. they all got to on a boat and sailed to a new world where they wouldn't have to be scared ever again. but as soon as they arrived, they were greeted by savages and they got scared all over again. so they killed them all. in 1775, they started killing the british. so they could be free. and it worked. but they still didn't feel safe. so they passed the second amendment that says every white man can keep their gun. >> from michael moore's academy award winning "bowling for columbine." i watched the movie again from start to finish. some fascinating things to observe in that movie it one, how little really america has moved on. you could argue it's moved backwards. in terms of guns, gun control and so on. secondly, a few things came out of it. one is aurora is 17 miles from littleton. and that must have sprung out at you too, just how very close these two massacres were to each other. young children involved. the same kind of reaction from the gun lobby. you had charlton heston going down there, appearing at nra rallies after that incident. also another one i shall come to later involving a young girl who was killed in michigan. when you made the movie and it came out, ten years ago, tenth anniversary now, did you expect more to be done about guns? did you expect the impact of both the massacre in columbine and your movie to have more of an effect than it's had? >> well, this is the continuing problem i have with all my movies. because i am an optimist at heart. i'm not a cynic. and so when i made "roger and me" my first film 22 years ago, i thought that would wake people up about general motors and corporate america. and sound a big warning bell. didn't happen. "bowling for columbine." i just had a feeling this was, you know -- we were having these occasional mass killings then. now we have them pretty much on average every month. somebody goes into the office or a school or a neighborhood or whatever and a bunch of people are killed. so this is my -- i made a film that -- the beginning of the iraq war. weapons of mass destruction. so i'm used to my films having little effect on making the world a better place. i hope -- i think they educate a lot of people and that. but i don't hold the kind of political power i would need to actually make things better. i want to say this about the thing about littleton. you said 17 miles away. i spent a lot of time out there in littleton, aurora, denver, while i was making the movie and since i made the movie. you know, there's another whole thing to discuss about this is probably going to take another show. people forget that -- there was another gun massacre in aurora. where i think four or so people were shot and killed at a chuck e. cheese. guy went in there and just senselessly killed these people. of course, every killing is senseless. that hasn't really been brought up. this isn't just columbine. it's not just last friday. even in aurora itself, it happened. so sadly i think it's something that's going to continue because -- >> what came through, michael? what came through strongly from the movie and what has come through strongly from all the reaction i've seen in the last few days is this adherence so many millions of americans put on the exact wording of the contusion, the second amendment. this famous piece of literature. well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, comma, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, comma, shall not be infringed. this is either referring specifically to a militia or is it refer to an individual. and you can argue it either way. i mean, i interviewed justice scalia last week. he'll tell you it's all about the actually interpretation intended by the founding fathers. as mayor bloomberg told me last night, a, we don't really know what they meant. b, what we do know is they didn't anticipate the kind of weaponry we have today. let's watch a clip from him last night and you'll see what i mean. >> everybody wants to preserve the right of people that want to use guns for sport, hunting or target practice, to have the right to do so. but that doesn't mean you have an assault weapon. that doesn't mean you have a rifle that's advertised as able to bring down a commercial airliner at a mile and a half or bullets that are designed to go through bullet-resistant vests. those are very different things. >> now, that would be my view entirely. let's watch what ice t, the rapper, said yesterday about his interpretation of the second amendment. >> the right to bear arms is because that's the last form of defense against tyranny. not to hunt. it's to protect yourself from the police. >> and do you see any link between that and these sorts of incidents? >> no. nah, not really. you know what i'm saying? if somebody wants to kill peep, they don't need a gun to do it. >> makes it easier, doesn't it? >> not really. you can strap explosives on your body. they do that all the time. >> there you have two very different views. i would say there are millions and millions of americans who would part themselves into mayor bloomberg's side of the argument and millions more, probably millions more in total, that would agree with what ice t said. how do you deal with this going forward? the constitutional divide that america has over how that is interpreted? >> okay. well, i'm going to argue it both ways. because i think you can make a valid argument sort of. on both, on both sides. not the last part. that part that ice t said that reducing them wouldn't -- that's been proven. you reduce the guns and the ammo, you'll reduce the murders. somebody strapping a bomb on themselves, that's a whole different animal we have to deal with in these times. but i think first of all this must seem odd to people in other countries that we view our constitution as if it was written by god himself. that it was somehow through some sort of divine intervention or whatever. it was etched in stone like moses and the tablets. and because what they thought was right in 1776 to 1789, that was -- that is the way we have to live today in the 21st century. we wouldn't go to a doctor and have him put leaches on us to suck the blood out of it because that would cure us. we've kind of evolved. so i think what -- it's a safe bet -- i think the people who are -- the nra and the so-called gun supporters. i think they -- if they were intellectually honest. and i think it's okay ton u use that word. the other word. they would admit the founding fathers when they said militia, they meant we got to be able to round up all the farmers and the merchants and everybody, get your gun because the british are coming back. they were afraid of that. they still were dealing with the world's largest power at the time when we got our independence. or when they said "the right to bear arms" i think, you know, the arm back then was you could -- you could only fire one shot at a time. you had a little -- a little ball bearing-like bullet. you had to stuff it in the thing. then do this. gun powder. took 15 minutes before you could fire one shot. now, if the founding fathers could have looked into a crystal ball and seen ak-47s and a glock semiautomatic pistol. i got a feeling they would want to leave a little note behind and probably tell us, you know, that's not really what we mean when we say "bear arms." so i think that -- i think most intelligent people would see that it's -- it kind of makes sense, what they were thinking. i wish that we would just live in this century. i think they'd want us to do that. we've evolved in other ways. we allow women to vote. we decided that slavery was a bad idea. we've gotten rid of a lot of those bad ideas from the founding fathers. this is probably one that is not necessarily a bad idea but one that can care flied th 21 century language. >> i've been staggered, i have to say, having started this show when gabby giffords was shot which is about a week before i went on air. to see nothing happen after that. and then to see the worst single shooting in the history of of the united states. and still have no senior politician. neither the president, nor the man who wants to replace him as president, mitt romney, have said anything about guns or gun control. as if it is not an issue that even needs to be discussed. let's come back after the break. i nt to ask you why. why is there this extraordinary wall of silence from america's political leaders? i don't spend money on gasoline. i don't have to use gas. i am probably going to the gas station about once a month. drive around town all the time doing errands and never ever have to fill up gas in the city. i very rarely put gas in my chevy volt. last time i was at a gas station was about...i would say... two months ago. the last time i went to the gas station must have been about three months ago. i go to the gas station such a small amount that i forget how to put gas in my car. ♪ oh, just diagramming this accident with my state farm pocket agent app. you can also get a quote and pay your premium with this thing. i thought state farm didn't have all those apps? where did you hear that? the internet. and you believed it? yeah. they can't put anything on the internet that isn't true. where did you hear that? [ both ] the internet. oh look. here comes my date. i met him on the internet. he's a french model. uh, bonjour. [ male announcer ] state farm. more mobile than ever. get to a better state. focus lolo, focust sanya let's do this i am from baltimore south carolina... bloomington, california... a