year america began to gain jobs, a painfully slow but steady job recovery has taken hold for the last 18 months. here is the key if you want to bring it back to politics. if the economy adds just over 100,000 jobs per month between now and the election, america will have gained back every single job lost during the obama presidency. mort zuckerman head of "u.s. news and world report." he's also an extremely wealthy and successful democratic businessman and he wrote this week president obama's economic programs have failed. mort, the economy is on pace, as you saw, to get back every job lost under president obama about a recession he didn't start. why? why are you saying it's failed? >> let me put it this way. in the first place those numbers are slightly misleading, we need 125 to 150,000 jobs to take into account. i'm not finished. not debating, just facts. compare this to any previous recession, 1970s, 1980s at this point the economy was growing between 6 and 8%. the largest stimulus program both in terms of monetary policy and fiscal policy we are having the slowest job growth. if this is a recovery we need a recovery from the recovery. >> mort -- >> i'm not comparing us to india, i'm just talking about the policies these administration has put into effect. the stimulus program they put in, which was $800 billion was badly directed and badly formed and almost every economist will tell you that. that's number one. number two, the health care program cost according to studies by both university of california and university of chicago. somewhere between 2 to 2.5 million. these are part time rather than full time jobs. >> let me ask you this. point taken on everything you said. you know your stuff. you've done your research. would somebody else have done a better job? if john mccain were president -- >> i doubt it. as you know i supported him. >> you're blaming him for something. >> i do think he went in with the wrong programs. i think he made a huge mistake with the health care, people wanted health care cost under control and he focused on coverage which blew out medicare and medicate difference sits longer. he wasn't able to deal with differen deficits because he couldn't reach an agreement with the republicans. i'm not get into the plame game. it's up to the president and he didn't. the stimulus, a bust. much less than he should have done. finally alienated the whole business community and collapsed in terms of their view of this administration. not all of these were necessary, if i may say so. >> all right. we'll get back to that in a second. president obama is the incumbent harks a record. van jones was a special adviser to president obama focused on green jobs and innovation. van is the author of "rebuild the dream" mitt romney reached back into the clinton years and stressed it's still all about the economy. van, what does president obama have to do to point to successes in the economy in the face of those criticisms and the kind we're here from mort zuckerman, a democrat. >> well first of all, it's interesting to me, we all are frustrated with the economy. the reality is when you talk about the stimulus package, a third of the stimulus package was tax cuts. conservatives say they are for tax cuts. a third of the stimulus was tax cuts. 95% got tax cuts under the stimulus. another third he was saving cops, teachers, firefighters from being thrown on the of work in the hundreds of thousands across america. if your kid went to kindergarten a teacher was standing there to welcome them in those years, thank president obama. >> let me interrupt you for a second. van, let me interrupt you for a second. like mort, you're making good points. the president seems to struggle getting that message out there. is that going to change in the course of the next few months? that's the kind of stuff he's going to have to have people remember about teachers and about firefighters and about how bad it could have been if the stimulus weren't in place as unsuccessful as some people say it is. >> well, this is the most important thing i think. now he's finally -- unfortunately we have a president honest enough to be in washington, d.c. trying to solve problems, not just out there making a case for himself. had he been taking his eye off the ball trying to explain to people it would have been worse. here is what you have to understand about this president. that stimulus package was as big as it could have been. you've never had a recession like this. two wars, economic crisis, lock step opposition from the opposition. put forth ideas republicans liked. they said they wanted tax cuts. he put it in there. stopped him on that. they said they wanted individual responsibility in the health care system. he day of them that. they took him to the supreme court. you have lock step with republicans. last thing i want to say, he volunteered to be the captain of the "titanic" after it hit the iceberg and we're still floating. we're still floating. >> van says president obama volunteered to be the captain of the "titanic." let's forget history and look at current stuff. let's look at a poll how people think things are going today. 43% think things are going well. a new cnn research poll. in february, mort, 40% thought so. in december 30% thought so. in last august, as you recall, a tough time. we were dealing with the debt debacle, very serious problems in europe. 24% thought so. are you out of step with the reality here about the way things are going. i talk to ceos every day that don't sound as negative as you do and you're a democrat. >> first place, corporate america is doing better than the economy as a whole. why? they have control over their costs. one of the ways they control their costs, a, they let go of people and, b, they aren't hiring, which is why hiring numbers are weak. >> hiring numbers have been extremely strong. >> the weakest recovery in hiring we've had in any recovery. not even close in terms of the number of jobs -- >> if you don't like what this administration has done, what is the answer. >> if i had one thing to do, assuming i had the power to implement it, which i think is appropriate, i would revise the tax code. if you revise by eliminating special provisions dood lobbyists have been able to get for all kinds of interest groups, you would have the following, lower corporate rates and lower individual stacks rates. it would stimulate the consumer and business. that is the one thing that has to be done. >> i have a tax code in this building, 73,000 pages long. fully agree with you. republicans didn't fibs it eith -- fix it either. >> i'm not saying -- >> why is this on president obama as opposed to republicans who never fixed the tax code and democrats who never fixed the tax code. >> this country relies on the leadership in politics and economics on the president not on the congress. we all know the way congress works. it takes presidential leadership. in 1983 ronald reagan when he was president and tip o'neill, the speaker of the house reformed social security. why? he had relationships with tip o'neill. the two of them worked together to get it done. this president has no relationship to the congress. if you go to the congress and i did, there is absolutely no relationship. the senate leader mitch mcconnell, front page story of the "new york times" had not had a private meeting with the president in 18 months. >> i'm not sure mitch mcconnell insisted on that private meeting he would have gotten it. we're partisan to the extreme in the way we would not see. >> that is part of the problem. the kind of presidential leadership we need to get out of this mess did not come from this president. a lot of people believe that. >> i disagree with that. >> i'm telling you, it's just a disappointment. >> van disagrees with you. we're going to have a little more chance to talk. mort, a pleasure to have you on the show. mort zuckerman, editor in chief of u.s. world and report. will woman in charge of protecting your bank account during an economic crisis says it's time for the federal reserve to declare victory putting her directly at odds with fed chairman ben bernanke. >> i think it's a little premature to declare victory. time to loosen the grip and let interest rates rise coming up next. (female announcer) most life insurance companies look at you and just see a policy. at aviva, we do things differently. we're bringing humanity back to life insurance. that's why only aviva rewards you with savings for getting a check-up. it's our wellness for life program, with online access to mayo clinic. see the difference at avivausa.com. this week the federal reserve says it plans to leave interest rates at a record low until late 2014 just as it has for the past four years. there are those who say now is the time onto start raising interest rates. we do that, here is what it means for you. the pros are you get a better return on your savings and some of your nonstock investments, plus there's less chance of inflation which worries central banks. the cons, interest rate on your mortgage or other loans could go up. some banks can get discouraged from lending. sheila behr federal chairman of fdism c. she was tasked with shoring up our banks, a job she did very well. she wrote in fortune if the fed does not raise rates soon, america could be heading for another bubble. fed chairman ben bernanke was asked about this in congress and he responded. >> i think keeping interest rates low is still appropriate for our economy. as for the bond bubble, interest rates are low for a lot of reasons. they include monetary policy, of course, but include weak economy, low expectations, safe haven demands for u.s. treasuries. of course interest rates will arise at some point. we hope they do. that would be an indication the economy is recovering. >> if interest rates rise an indication of recovering. sheila, always a pleasure. >> thank you, ali. >> the broadest measure we use, may not be as effective but the broadest measure we use back in 2008 the economy, gdp contracted 6%, 6.7, 7%, then started to grow. we got up to 3.9%, very strong. then into the 2s, 2011 dodgey year. now numbers showing the economy is grog at an annual base 2.2%. 2.2% bigger in 2012 than 2012. that's not much particularly when you compare it to other nations. your idea interest rates should go up? a signal you think we're okay, confident in this recovery and not going to be set back again? >> i think it's a signal this has gone on long enough. there's only so much you can accomplish with the monetary poll sichlt our economy is struggling. the best way to fix that is fiscal policy, better leadership through congress to clean out exemption laden tax code, fix entitlement problems, provide certainty to business about the future trajectory of our economy will be. only so much the fed can accomplish with monetary policy and keeping rates low, near zero rates. inflationary pressures later on. we're not getting enough bang for the buck. the fed should let markets bump up a bit and not intervene if that's the direction the market wants to go. i think it could be a healthy thing for the economy. some positive effects. could help saefrs, the mortgage market. some people are on the sidelines with all the excess inventory in housing. if they know mortgage rates are coming up they might come in to lock in low rates. >> i've maintained that position a long time. you might be worrying about home prices dropping another 5%, if your mortgage goes from 4% to 6% over the course of a 20 or 15 year mortgage. >> absolutely. >> so what is that, right now fed rates are around zero. prime rates around 3%. a 30-year fixed mortgage if you put 20% down and have good credit can be had for 4%. what's the right amount of interest? what's the kind of interest that controls inflation, allows savers to save but doesn't crush the economy. >> you need to have the market as part of the decision making on this. right now the fed is controlling everything. when i go out and speak to investor groups the first thing i hear are we going to have qe 3. so much as to what the fed is going to do as what is our broader financial situation or fiscal situation. health y to signal to congress and administration they need to get fiscal administration in order. a little bond market discipline perhaps would be helpful there. i would like to see the market have a little more say on what interest rate -- the appropriate interest rate is. clearly our fiscal situation is very troubled. it does not justify extremely low yields on treasuries. >> sheila bair always a pleasure to talk to you. now senior adviser with the pew charitable trust. coming up on "your $$$$$," how president obama's election bid may hinge more on what happens in europe than in ohio. that's next. cleaner energy, while protecting our environment. across america, these technologies protect air - by monitoring air quality and reducing emissions... ...protect water - through conservation and self-contained recycling systems... ... and protect land - by reducing our footprint and respecting wildlife. america's natural gas... domestic, abundant, clean energy to power our lives... that's smarter power today. could europe's economic crisis push our refrigerator i will recovery in reverse. europe's unemployment numbers are down alarming. spain's jobless rate up 24% sparking riots there this week. its debt has just been downgraded. greece, portugal, ireland above the 10% mark in terms of unemployment. meanwhile austerity measures in france haven't won president nicolas sarkozy many friends of he's facing a runoff election in one week. greek voters crushed by cutbacks also head to the ballot box on the same day may 6th and could throw their leaders out. a lot of a stake for the european economy and global economy, ultimately the u.s. economy. my co-anchor on cnn's world business today, senior european correspondent joins me from paris. jim, let's start with you. as the architect of europe's recovery plan frernlg president sarkozy has proven to be unpopular. is that why he's facing a runoff in the battle against a relatively little known socialist? >> i think that's right, ali. the fact is he's running about 8 points behind in the public opinion polls with nine days to go before the election. economy is the big issue, no question about it. people talk about unemployment. he got more bad news. unemployment numbers up, almost touching 10%. the highest levels since 1999. that's one big concern. the other is buying power, which many citizens feel it's gone down, can't afford the things they used to afford. the economy is the big issue. >> it's a point that sheila bair just made with me that inflation is the big concern because it erodes your buying power. nina, for decades france has been a major global economy. greece has not been a major economy for about 2,000 years. why do we care so much about the situation in greece. tell us what's happening and why it worries us. >> it has been a member of the eurozone. according to comments made by the german faction of the european bank that governs economy across the eurozone perhaps greece shouldn't be part of the economy anyway. heading to the polls on the same day, eclipsed by that because, of course, france is the major economy, the world's fifth largest. what they are going to be facing in greece, whoever gets in, not just the specter of the worst recession they have seen in recent memory, also one of the most painful one, but the specter -- a lot of people heading to the polls to punish politician that is got them into this situation in the first place. >> let's just for comparison purposes look at the major economies in the world. gdp, gross domestic product is the measure of product, up or down in a given year. these are projections this year, 2012. china expected to grow 8.2, india 6.9, brazil 3%. united states 2.1%. same thing in canada by the way. 2.1%. the united kingdom in recession right now is maybe going to get to 0.8 of 1%. spain negative 1.8, shrinking 1.8 and greece is almost 5% smaller by the end of 2012 than it was at the beginning. nina, this becomes a discussion worldwide about whether austerity is a better policy than stimulus or whether the reality is somewhere in between. are we learning any lessons between france and greece and spain and italy. >> well economists who say you should put your eggs in the back ket of austerity politicians learning lessons of that. what we're seeing is at least 10 governments have changed over the last two years or so since the european financial crisis got going. even with some of the most fiscally prudent nations like the netherlands seen their government collapse against back lashes of austerity. that puts it into perspective. same time what we saw countries like spain trying to push painful austerity measures and standard & poor's decides to downgrade and put with emerging markets like kazakhstan. >> the same conversation we have in the united states plays out in different ways in all these different places. jim, great to have you on the show. nina, great to spend more than just the hour a day with you on tv. remember, we've got a live special next weekend. we'll be covering greek and french elections during timeslot on "your $$$$$." student loans not only entered presidential race but also entered late night comedy. >> now is not the time to make school more expensive for our young people. 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