Transcripts For BBCNEWS Verified 20240702 : vimarsana.com

BBCNEWS Verified July 2, 2024



the head of the territory's largest hospital says that at least 20 people died there, including several sheltering in a courtyard. the world health organization says 20 hospitals in gaza are now entirely out of action, as israeli tanks are spotted outside one children's facility. health officials now say more than 11,000 people have been killed in gaza since israel launched its offensive against hamas in response to the group's deadly assault last month. the uk's prime minister has backed the home secretary suella braverman, in the face of calls to sack her. downing street said rishi sunak still had "full confidence" in her. she's come into criticism after writing an article accusing the police of bias. welcome to bbc news. let's spend the next half hour answering some of your questions as we approach five weeks of the war in the middle east. where are we with israel's military campaign, the humanitarian situation, hostages, the tactics being used, the death toll, the diplomacy, and what any sort of end game looks like. injerusalem is our correspondent paul adams, and with me is james landale. so, straight to the first question. paul, we have a question from roger, who says air hamas is in gaza and the hostages are there, how was bombing gaza going to give those hostages alive? it is bombing gaza going to give those hostages alive?— hostages alive? it is a good question — hostages alive? it is a good question and _ hostages alive? it is a good question and one _ hostages alive? it is a good question and one that - hostages alive? it is a good| question and one that many hostages alive? it is a good - question and one that many israelis have been asking since the start of this. is israel's military campaign in gaza going to actually put their relatives lives in greater danger? the israelis don't yet control more than about 20% of gaza city. they are working quite slowly and methodically, and so far this military effort has only resulted in the rescue of one hostage. the israeli government's argument has been it is only by the relentless application of military pressure that hostages will be released. it is worth remembering we are seeing behind—the—scenes tantalising glimpses of the kind of diplomatic efforts going on to secure the release of hostages. the israeli government has yet to accept the idea that it is worth pausing its military activities to give those diplomatic efforts room to bear fruit. its view is it cannot do anything that gives hamas an opportunity to regroup. hamas has said, and we can take this with a pinch of salt, that is many as 60 of the hostages have been killed as a result of israel air strikes. the government here recognises hostages will probably die in the course of its military operations because those hostages are being held in the same places where many of the hamas fighters are hiding.— fighters are hiding. james, on that issue of behind-the-scenes, - fighters are hiding. james, on that l issue of behind-the-scenes, william issue of behind—the—scenes, william burns has been in the region, the head of mossad in qatar. give me a sense of what you think is happening behind—the—scenes. the? sense of what you think is happening behind-the-scenes._ behind-the-scenes. they are trying to see if there _ behind-the-scenes. they are trying to see if there is _ behind-the-scenes. they are trying to see if there is possibility - behind-the-scenes. they are trying to see if there is possibility of - to see if there is possibility of moving — to see if there is possibility of moving beyond the stalemate, can you -et moving beyond the stalemate, can you get movement on ceasefire and the hostages? — get movement on ceasefire and the hostages? neither site are willing to budge — hostages? neither site are willing to budge. some of the stumbling blocks_ to budge. some of the stumbling blocks appear to be the israeli request— blocks appear to be the israeli request a _ blocks appear to be the israeli request a data move before they get from hamas a complete list of the hostages — from hamas a complete list of the hostages. where are they. the problem — hostages. where are they. the problem is, as paul was saying, there _ problem is, as paul was saying, there is— problem is, as paul was saying, there is uncertainty over how many hostages _ there is uncertainty over how many hostages have been killed as a result— hostages have been killed as a result of— hostages have been killed as a result of the strikes. we know some of the _ result of the strikes. we know some of the hostages are held not by the same _ of the hostages are held not by the same groups, some are held by different— same groups, some are held by different militias. the spy chiefs, politicians — different militias. the spy chiefs, politicians are talking to one another _ politicians are talking to one another constantly, trying to find a way of _ another constantly, trying to find a way of unlocking it. they will hope if way of unlocking it. they will hope it you _ way of unlocking it. they will hope it you can — way of unlocking it. they will hope if you can unlock one issue, maybe you can _ if you can unlock one issue, maybe you can unlock others.— if you can unlock one issue, maybe you can unlock others. there are so many issues — you can unlock others. there are so many issues running _ you can unlock others. there are so many issues running in _ you can unlock others. there are so many issues running in parallel. - many issues running in parallel. let's turn to those trying to get out of the rafah crossing. two questions, one anonymous, from simon. who controls the crossing, who decides who goes in and out? why have foreign nationals being trapped? this have foreign nationals being tra ed? a ., have foreign nationals being tra ed? �*, ., ., have foreign nationals being traued? r ., ., .,, trapped? as for who controls the crossin: , trapped? as for who controls the crossing. you _ trapped? as for who controls the crossing, you had _ trapped? as for who controls the crossing, you had the _ trapped? as for who controls the crossing, you had the egyptian . trapped? as for who controls the i crossing, you had the egyptian side and the side controlled by hamas on the palestinian side. you also have, when it comes to people wanting to leave, you have the israelis wanting to vet every name submitted by every foreign government trying to get foreign government trying to get foreign citizens out. that's been more than a0 countries, more than 7000 people are not long list. the israelis want to be sure not of those people have any links of any kind to hamas, that is a lengthy and laborious process and one which involves negotiating and checking. there's been disputes about whether the border should be open for wounded politicians to come out in ambulances —— wounded palestinians. israel, said hamas will try get some of their people out. when it comes to aid going in, the israelis want to aid going in, the israelis want to make sure it is of no use to hamas. it has to be checked at a nearby is really crossing, and then return to the rafah crossing. all of these things take time and all end “p these things take time and all end up getting mired in disputes about what is coming in and who wants to go out. what is coming in and who wants to no out. , . , what is coming in and who wants to no out. , ., , , what is coming in and who wants to oout. , ,., go out. james, in terms of the diplomacy _ go out. james, in terms of the diplomacy for— go out. james, in terms of the diplomacy for foreign - go out. james, in terms of the l diplomacy for foreign nationals, go out. james, in terms of the . diplomacy for foreign nationals, it is diplomacy forforeign nationals, it is a complicated situation. you have the added complications of these extended families, some being dual nationals and some not, and some being let in. nationals and some not, and some being let in-_ nationals and some not, and some being let in. you 'ust have to be on the less, being let in. you 'ust have to be on the less. and — being let in. you just have to be on the less, and some _ being let in. you just have to be on the less, and some families - being let in. you just have to be on the less, and some families are - the less, and some families are getting — the less, and some families are getting to — the less, and some families are getting to the border, and some of the family— getting to the border, and some of the family on tom the less. they largely— the family on tom the less. they largely don't succeed in getting through — largely don't succeed in getting through. it is not clear what criteria _ through. it is not clear what criteria they are using to choose who gets — criteria they are using to choose who gets on the list. western diplomats say the broad thesis as they are — diplomats say the broad thesis as they are going for more vulnerable, women, _ they are going for more vulnerable, women, children and elderly, so some men are _ women, children and elderly, so some men are left— women, children and elderly, so some men are left behind. there is confusion _ men are left behind. there is confusion and uncertainty, and heartbreak for those on the ground. let's turn _ heartbreak for those on the ground. let's turn to — heartbreak for those on the ground. let's turn to nick lewis, an important question. it would appear israel is flattening the north of gaza. 0nce israel is flattening the north of gaza. once it is done, what happens in the south? what is israel planning on doing here? filth. in the south? what is israel planning on doing here? 0h, nick, there are three questions - planning on doing here? 0h, nick, there are three questions there. is israel flattening the northern part of the gaza strip? the answer is no, despite what you think you have seen. the destruction is widespread. in certain places it is absolute. there are still large part of gaza city that remain relatively unscathed. i use the word relatively. israel's effort to take gaza city has only really begun in the last week, so we don't the level of destruction that will be left by the time the israelis feel they have finally taken gaza. 0f the time the israelis feel they have finally taken gaza. of course, more than i finally taken gaza. of course, more thani million people have left and many of those have no idea if their homes will be standing when this fighting is over. whether there will be anything for them to return to. well gaza be a wasteland? then the other question is, what happens if the israelis turn south? having crowned the bulk of the population of the gaza strip into the southern regions, the two thirds of the strip, does israel want to continue its military operation into that area? where do those people go while the battle takes place? finally the question about the long—term plan. no one knows the long—term plan. until a month ago, there was no plan for any of this. just until a month ago, there was no plan for any of this-— for any of this. just a brief follow-up. _ for any of this. just a brief follow-up, because - for any of this. just a brief. follow-up, because richard for any of this. just a brief - follow-up, because richard and follow—up, because richard and monica asked similar questions. with the civilian deaths in gaza so horrific, what could israel have done differently in the way they have carried this out? that done differently in the way they have carried this out?— done differently in the way they have carried this out? that is an argument _ have carried this out? that is an argument you — have carried this out? that is an argument you hear _ have carried this out? that is an argument you hear from - have carried this out? that is an argument you hear from the - have carried this out? that is an - argument you hear from the israelis, argument you hearfrom the israelis, that we are only doing what anyone else would do, we are observing the laws of war, both in terms of the right of self—defence, the identification of legitimate targets and the issue of proportionality. to the lay person looking at the death toll in excess of 11,000, according toll in excess of 11,000, according to the health in gaza, that instinctively doesn't feel it can be proportional because of the israelis will point out things like a hospital, something which shouldn't be targeted. until and unless it becomes taken over by a military force, at which point it can be seen as a military target, and that is the case in a number of places, in particular the largest hospital because of the question becomes, how do you deal with the problem, given that our thousands of civilians located in that area? it is safe to say there is a huge debate about the legality of all of this. it depends which side you are on. no military, government around the world would want to be in the situation israel is trying to figure it out.- is trying to figure it out. antony bfinken is trying to figure it out. antony blinken said _ is trying to figure it out. antony blinken said in _ is trying to figure it out. antony blinken said in the _ is trying to figure it out. antony blinken said in the last - is trying to figure it out. antony blinken said in the last few - is trying to figure it out. antony i blinken said in the last few hours to many palestinians had died in this conflict already. in terms of the west approach, how long dc the current position staying the current position? that current position staying the current osition? �* ,., current position staying the current osition? . ,., ,., position? at some point it will cease to become, _ position? at some point it will cease to become, because - position? at some point it will - cease to become, because pressure is building _ cease to become, because pressure is building if_ cease to become, because pressure is building. if you look at what western _ building. if you look at what western leaders said before all the focus _ western leaders said before all the focus on _ western leaders said before all the focus on israel's self defence, the focus _ focus on israel's self defence, the focus is _ focus on israel's self defence, the focus is now on protecting civilians following _ focus is now on protecting civilians following international law, doing more _ following international law, doing more to— following international law, doing more to get aid in. they know the west's_ more to get aid in. they know the west's reputation is being damaged by its _ west's reputation is being damaged by its association with israel. they know _ by its association with israel. they know in _ by its association with israel. they know in recent months, particularly with issues— know in recent months, particularly with issues like climate change, economy— with issues like climate change, economy and ukraine, the west is making _ economy and ukraine, the west is making huge efforts to engage with what we _ making huge efforts to engage with what we call the global south. much of the _ what we call the global south. much of the work— what we call the global south. much of the work has been damaged by what is happening now. pressure from the west on— is happening now. pressure from the west on israel to modify and restrain _ west on israel to modify and restrain will grow. the americans have _ restrain will grow. the americans have yet — restrain will grow. the americans have yet to — restrain will grow. the americans have yet to succeed to restrain israel — have yet to succeed to restrain israel. that is an interesting geopolitical test. we israel. that is an interesting geopolitical test.— israel. that is an interesting ”eooliticaltest. ~ ., ., geopolitical test. we heard earlier about the principles _ geopolitical test. we heard earlier about the principles of _ geopolitical test. we heard earlieri about the principles of distinction, proportionality and all of those areas. pointing toward their interpretation of international law. that is so disputed in terms of the approach being used. the that is so disputed in terms of the approach being used.— that is so disputed in terms of the approach being used. the key thing to understand _ approach being used. the key thing to understand about _ approach being used. the key thing to understand about proportionality is it is— to understand about proportionality is it is not— to understand about proportionality is it is not about what was done to israel— is it is not about what was done to israel and — is it is not about what was done to israel and then gaza. it is all about— israel and then gaza. it is all about everything missile strike launched by israel. is it proportionate to the expected military— proportionate to the expected military gain? it is all about thousands of decisions being taken over these — thousands of decisions being taken over these weeks. it isn't about a general— over these weeks. it isn't about a general campaign. that is where israel— general campaign. that is where israel will— general campaign. that is where israel will be tested against international law.— israel will be tested against international law. let's turn to verification — international law. let's turn to verification because _ international law. let's turn to - verification because communication is so difficult, reporting as well, and we are in a war, so paul, a couple of questions. anthony says how many other 10,000 people killed so far are hamas fighters? rob says, my question regarding the 1a00 killed on october seven, i have seen numbers about how that is broken down, or i haven't seen numbers in terms of soldiers, police, ages. broadly, the questions are asking how we going about verifying the basic facts yet. we how we going about verifying the basic facts yet.— basic facts yet. we have great difficulty- _ basic facts yet. we have great difficulty. let's _ basic facts yet. we have great difficulty. let's take _ basic facts yet. we have great difficulty. let's take the - basic facts yet. we have great| difficulty. let's take the israeli side first, each day that passes, you get the israelis giving a slightly amended total for how many people were killed, how many people are missing, how many people taken hostage. it is hardly surprising given the scale of what happens, that there should be even now lingering uncertainty about exactly who died, where they died, whether they were taken, on a hostage less. these things are not clear. i do think anyone should be surprise, let alone suspicious about anything there. on the palestinian side, there. on the palestinian side, there is a very live debate about these numbers. the numbers come to us from the palestinian health ministry, which is controlled by hamas in gaza. that might make people think, of course they will inflate the numbers. in certain incidents, for example the explosion at the hospital several weeks ago, but numbers of casualties were grossly inflated at the time. what most people believe about those health ministry numbers is generally speaking, they have proven to be accurate. in previous rounds of conflict in gaza, those numbers have been checked out, international aid agencies, people who have an interest in knowing these things have looked at those, looked at the methodology and have generally concluded that what the health ministry put out tends to be accurate. 0f ministry put out tends to be accurate. of course, the evidence of our own eyes tells us the death toll, particularly the death toll among women and children, isjust overwhelming. we have seen so much that it overwhelming. we have seen so much thatitis overwhelming. we have seen so much that it is hard to dispute the fact many, many, many thousands of people have been killed. pauli m

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