announced in this campaign, that, yes, does continue to cut people's taxes because i believe in a country where people's hard work is rewarded. nick robinson also showed mr sunak a photo of the international d—day event that he apologised for missing last week. the prime minister says he never meant to cause hurt or offence, which is why he's "apologised unreservedly" for the mistake. i want you to look at this photograph. the president of the united states, the chancellor of germany, the president of france and, for the united kingdom... ..your predecessor, david cameron, the foreign secretary. how do you feel when you look at that photo of d—day at omaha beach? that photo of d—day at omaha beach? well, the last thing that i wanted to do was cause anyone any hurt or offence or upset, which is why i apologised unreservedly for the mistake that i made. and i can only ask that i hope people can find it within their hearts to forgive me and also look at my actions as prime minister to increase investment in our armed forces, to support our armed forces, but also to ensure that veterans have a minister sitting around the cabinet table with unprecedented support to make this the best country in the world to be a veteran as a demonstration about how deeply i care about this community what they've done our country. you said it was a mistake and you've apologised. and then a few days later, you went further and said, as you just have, that you hope people can forgive you. do you understand that for quite a lot of people watching, i think, they simply think that the basic duty of the prime minister, the duty was for you to be in that photograph and not david cameron? well, that's why i've apologised unreservedly for the mistake and i hope people can find it in their hearts to forgive me. my duty is also to make sure that this is a country which looks after our veterans, which is why i'm proud that there is a veterans minister sitting around the cabinet table, dedicated... nigel farage has said... ..for veterans affairs, with more support for our veterans, because i care very deeply about their well—being and making sure that we repay to them the debt of gratitude we owe for everything that they've done for our country. we've been hearing reaction from labour to those pledges by rishi sunak to cut taxes and not cut public spending. here's the shadow paymaster generaljonathan ashworth here's the shadow paymaster generaljonathan ashworth what we have seen tonight from rishi sunak is confirmation that he has made a whole load of promises he cannot fund, based on savings he cannot find. after 14 years of the tories, the money is not there. so no matter what promise rishi sunak makes in his manifesto in the coming days, he is not able to deliver on any of them because he cannot explain where the money is coming from. in the end, it would be mortgage holders, mortgage payers, and people on the housing ladder who will pay for his unfunded commitments. the un security council has endorsed a ceasefire proposal for gas are the un security council has endorsed a ceasefire proposalfor gas are put forward by us presidentjoe biden. the resolution urges both hamas and israel to fully implement its terms without delay and without condition. 14 countries voted in favour and russia abstained. we will get more on this with our correspondent nada tawfik in the next hour. back to rishi sunak�*s interview with nick robinson. joining me now is chief political correspondent at the times — aubrey allegretti and former downing street director of communications guto harri. thank you forjoining us. aubrey allegretti, coming to you first, overall, do you think rishi sunak did enough on the question of d—day in that interview? he went a bit further this time asking for forgiveness, didn't he? yeah, he certainly was- — forgiveness, didn't he? yeah, he certainly was. it _ forgiveness, didn't he? yeah, he certainly was. it was _ forgiveness, didn't he? yeah, he certainly was. it was sort - forgiveness, didn't he? yeah, he certainly was. it was sort of- certainly was. it was sort of operation trying to so just how sorry he was, show how sorry he was, almost grovelling. he has shown he's got to dig deep here and it has clearly frustrated some voters and certainly a lot of conservative mps or candidate seeking re—election. and he obviously has gone for humility, tried to own the mistaken self and point to the government's record on its support for veterans. it is a source of great personal frustration to him about what happened, but clearly he is the person who made the decision and the buck stops with him. so i suspect he is trying to draw a line under this and talk about the issues that he thinks are most important for the conservatives at this election. but when you have stood on a platform, as you mentioned at the top, mentioning national service can as well, it is quite hard to suggest that you look completely honest with the public having ditched the d—day celebrations so early. the public having ditched the d-day celebrations so early.— celebrations so early. guto, to brina celebrations so early. guto, to bring you _ celebrations so early. guto, to bring you in — celebrations so early. guto, to bring you in on _ celebrations so early. guto, to bring you in on this, _ celebrations so early. guto, to bring you in on this, you've - celebrations so early. guto, to l bring you in on this, you've been celebrations so early. guto, to - bring you in on this, you've been in the situation handling a row that doesn't seem to go away. how did you feel he got on in the interview? as far as i was concerned i watched tonight— far as i was concerned i watched tonight thinking i don't want to... he means — tonight thinking i don't want to... he means it, he knows he messed up, it's not— he means it, he knows he messed up, it's not the _ he means it, he knows he messed up, it's not the decisive issue in this election— it's not the decisive issue in this election any more. it is a bad moment, _ election any more. it is a bad moment, i'm happy to kick people as hard as_ moment, i'm happy to kick people as hard as anyone else but to watch that interview and think the only thing _ that interview and think the only thing we — that interview and think the only thing we want to know is how sorry he is _ thing we want to know is how sorry he is is _ thing we want to know is how sorry he is is missing the point. that was a serious _ he is is missing the point. that was a serious attempt to find out looking — a serious attempt to find out looking towards the end of this decade — looking towards the end of this decade who is best placed to run modern — decade who is best placed to run modern britain and i thought the prime _ modern britain and i thought the prime minister came across as very sincere. _ prime minister came across as very sincere. very— prime minister came across as very sincere, very serious, totally across— sincere, very serious, totally across the _ sincere, very serious, totally across the detail, and he engaged. and he _ across the detail, and he engaged. and he was— across the detail, and he engaged. and he was very, very straight. i think— and he was very, very straight. i think there — and he was very, very straight. i think there was a contrast. let�*s think there was a contrast. let's listen to what _ think there was a contrast. let's listen to what he _ think there was a contrast. let's listen to what he had _ think there was a contrast. let's listen to what he had to - think there was a contrast. let's listen to what he had to say - think there was a contrast. let�*s listen to what he had to say about waiting lists. we have vaclik ready. —— vaclik ready. —— that clip. you promised when you became prime minister to cut nhs waiting lists. have they gone up or down since you made that pledge? i've been very clear, we have not made as much progress on nhs waiting lists as i would have liked. they have risen. they've gone up? yes. they are now coming down. and after we got through the industrial action and resolved it with all parts of the nhs workforce except the junior doctors, what you have seen over the past few months is now the waiting lists have started to fall by about 200,000 over the past few months. and if we stick to that plan, we can make more progress. isn't the problem with that argument, though, waiting lists having just gone up under rishi sunak, they went up under liz truss, they went up under borisjohnson, they went up under theresa may, they went up under david cameron? conservative prime ministers, for ia years — long before covid, long before strikes — have put nhs waiting lists up. well, the nhs has undeniably been under pressure for a while, and that was exacerbated by what happened in the pandemic. i think most reasonable people can see that. but this election is about the future. it's, where do we go from here? and as i said, we are investing record sums in the nhs, recruiting and training more doctors and nurses. aubrey allegretti, if i can come back to you. what did you make of the performance on the nhs from sunak? i the performance on the nhs from sunak? ~' ., , ., , the performance on the nhs from sunak? ~' . , ., , ., sunak? i think he was really sort of fiuuhtin sunak? i think he was really sort of fiaahtin a sunak? i think he was really sort of fighting a battle — sunak? i think he was really sort of fighting a battle about _ sunak? i think he was really sort of fighting a battle about record - sunak? i think he was really sort of fighting a battle about record on i fighting a battle about record on two fronts. 0n the first front, there is the past ia years of conservative government for which rishi sunak can claim that he has to some extent try to improve things but he has also been prime minister for at least 18 months, so when it came to the waiting lists, a pledge that he made at the start of january 2023 to get them down, that wasn't fulfilled and he was sort of i suppose pushed on various subjects, rwanda being another one, he pledged to stop the boats and it hasn't happened. he talked about wanting to cut income tax and he was asked about dragging 5 million people more into income tax thresholds than is already in them. housing as well, he admitted it has become harder to buy admitted it has become harder to buy a home under the conservatives. he faced real difficulties when defending notjust the previous conservative government supposed records but also his own. 0bviously records but also his own. obviously the conservative manifesto will be published tomorrow. there was a brand—new shiny policies that the conservatives hope will be a kitchen sink to try and catch the public�*s eye and attention. i suppose the question is, are people listening? because the conservatives have been trying the strategy of moving the poles where there has been a deficit of around 15 or points for nearly 16, 18 of around 15 or points for nearly 16,18 months, ever since rishi sunak came to power, it hasn't worked, will the manifesto really shift the dial when it seems to have been so heavily trailed in the last few days. been so heavily trailed in the last few da s. , ., ., ., i. been so heavily trailed in the last few da s. , ., . ., i. ., few days. guto harri, i want you to talk about this. _ few days. guto harri, i want you to talk about this. sounds _ few days. guto harri, i want you to talk about this. sounds like - few days. guto harri, i want you to talk about this. sounds like they i talk about this. sounds like they will talk about tax again tomorrow. what are you expecting from that? anything bigger than more national insurance cuts, or do you think something else?— insurance cuts, or do you think something else? that would be very bi in something else? that would be very big in itself- — something else? that would be very big in itself. there _ something else? that would be very big in itself. there is _ something else? that would be very big in itself. there is this _ something else? that would be very big in itself. there is this idea - big in itself. there is this idea that— big in itself. there is this idea that is— big in itself. there is this idea that is because people have a working — that is because people have a working assumption something is coming _ working assumption something is coming that it isn't a big deal when somebody— coming that it isn't a big deal when somebody can deliver it. i think it was very— somebody can deliver it. i think it was very interesting tonight when you break— was very interesting tonight when you break down the slightly sort of cheap _ you break down the slightly sort of cheap questioning on a number of issues, _ cheap questioning on a number of issues, when you break it down and look issues, when you break it down and took at _ issues, when you break it down and took at what — issues, when you break it down and look at what is the true reality, rishi _ look at what is the true reality, rishi sunak, very refreshingly, he was happy— rishi sunak, very refreshingly, he was happy to put his hands up and say we _ was happy to put his hands up and say we haven't got it right here, this is— say we haven't got it right here, this is not— say we haven't got it right here, this is not so good. but on that basis _ this is not so good. but on that basis i'rn — this is not so good. but on that basis i'm prepared to listen to him when _ basis i'm prepared to listen to him when he _ basis i'm prepared to listen to him when he says we have made progress on this— when he says we have made progress on this and _ when he says we have made progress on this and that and the working key stat for— on this and that and the working key stat for me — on this and that and the working key stat for me was that for the average working _ stat for me was that for the average working person in britain the burden of tax _ working person in britain the burden of tax on _ working person in britain the burden of tax on them is lower than it has been _ of tax on them is lower than it has been for— of tax on them is lower than it has been for decades, and that is quite a thing _ been for decades, and that is quite a thing to— been for decades, and that is quite a thing to deliver.— a thing to deliver. aubrey allegretti. _ a thing to deliver. aubrey allegretti, want - a thing to deliver. aubrey allegretti, want to - a thing to deliver. aubrey allegretti, want to bring l a thing to deliver. aubrey i allegretti, want to bring you a thing to deliver. aubrey - allegretti, want to bring you in on that. he said on average workers facing the lowest tax rate for 15 years. is that something you recognise as a figure? he was certainly pushed _ recognise as a figure? he was certainly pushed back- recognise as a figure? he was certainly pushed back on - recognise as a figure? he was certainly pushed back on it. recognise as a figure? he was certainly pushed back on it in | recognise as a figure? he was i certainly pushed back on it in the interview but it is a claim the conservatives and ever since the march budget when they cut national insurance by a further 2p in the pound. i suppose the conservatives are really trying to present this long—term trajectory really of being the party of low tax. but it's a difficult mantle to reclaim if as chancellor and then prime minister you were responsible for hiking taxes to their highest level. and again, if you look at the difference between the 2019 parliaments, so over the last five years back to when the last election was, its the biggest fall in living standards on record since the second world war during the course of a single parliament. so it is very good that rishi sunak can claim that he is gradually making progress, but will people fill material a substantially better off compared to 2019? i think that's when he comes a bit more unstuck. , , that's when he comes a bit more unstuck., , ., ., ., ., , ., that's when he comes a bit more unstuck. , ., ., ., ., ., unstuck. just another one for you to have a quick — unstuck. just another one for you to have a quick listen _ unstuck. just another one for you to have a quick listen again _ unstuck. just another one for you to have a quick listen again and - unstuck. just another one for you to have a quick listen again and for- have a quick listen again and for our viewers, the prime minister on the rwandan scheme. he was pushed on that. let's have a listen. you say the flights will go to rwanda. you say they'll go in just a few weeks' time. you had the opportunity to prove it. you could have said to everybody, here are the flights, people have gone to rwanda. here is the deterrent, the numbers are falling. you didn't, you cut and run, you had the election before, and now we have to take it on trust. well, no, because as i said, we got the numbers down by a third last year. that had never happened before. how many people have gone to rwanda in the three years since you announced you would do this? because it's taken time to get this through parliament because we've been frustrated. and this election is about the future and there is a clear choice, nick. right? if you believe, like i do, the only way to solve this problem is to have a deterrent, we are the only party that can deliver that for you. and again, the labour party have no answer. at the debate the other week, i asked keir starmer, what would the labour party do with migrants who come to our country illegally? time after time, he couldn't answer the question. now, i have a plan. people may not all agree with it. but it is a clear plan. i want to put to both of you how much immigration is now something that voters will immigration is now something that vote ., voters will turn it to the conservatives _ voters will turn it to the conservatives for. - voters will turn it to the | conservatives for. guto, voters will turn it to the i conservatives for. guto, is voters will turn it to the - conservatives for. guto, is it something you think they have a strong position on that people will turn to them on it? i strong position on that people will turn to them on it?— turn to them on it? i think it has been a highly — turn to them on it? i think it has been a highly toxic— turn to them on it? i think it has been a highly toxic issue - turn to them on it? i think it has been a highly toxic issue for - turn to them on it? i think it has been a highly toxic issue for a i turn to them on it? i think it has i been a highly toxic issue for a long time in _ been a highly toxic issue for a long time in british politics and i'm unfashionable because i think migration overall is a good thing. but people whojump migration overall is a good thing. but people who jump the migration overall is a good thing. but people whojump the queue and come _ but people whojump the queue and come here _ but people whojump the queue and come here on small boats illegally depriving — come here on small boats illegally depriving people of the opportunity to come _ depriving people of the opportunity to come here through legitimate established means, then i think a deterrent— established means, then i think a deterrent is something that, at least _ deterrent is something that, at least in — deterrent is something that, at least in theory, i can see how it would _ least in theory, i can see how it would work _ least in theory, i can see how it would work. i saw it work in practice _ would work. i saw it work in practice when i used to live in italy — practice when i used to live in italy. they— practice when i used to live in italy. they basically instituted a few years — italy. they basically instituted a few years ago a policy where if you landed _ few years ago a policy where if