national rally party has surged since they won the european elections three weeks ago, despite president macron pledging to stop its rise. and — a sky full of stars at coldplay�*s record—breaking fifth now on bbc news... newscast: electioncast. hi everybody. so, rishi sunak is still fighting for votes and he is still fighting for hisjob, because it is not over yet and rule number one of journalism is, never assume. but he was on with us this morning and it was quite a big moment, ithink. i think it was maybe the last big moment that he will have during this election campaign and that's what makes it so big. because, look, there's lots of polls day by day, you can't move for polls and publicly, rishi sunak says, he said to you, in fact, he still thinks he will be prime minister on friday after the general election. privately, i can tell you, the conservative campaign believe the polls and the labour campaign believe the polls. and, so, they need, rishi sunak needs, something to change and this was perhaps his big last opportunity to speak to the public about why he thinks things need to change. i was struck by the fact that he has faced a much smaller election before when he stood as conservative leader and lost to liz truss and then magically he got the job anyway. so maybe in his head there is two outcomes and one of them is he is prime minister for another five years. let's see, let's discuss it on this sunday's episode of newscast. newcast from the bbc. hello. it's paddy in the studio. and it's laura in the studio. and it's henry in the studio. and it's the last sunday before the campaign. and it does feel, henry, doesn't it, this is sort of crackle in the air. it's like this is the moment approaching? yeah. i think there's a genuine mood of excitement, but also trepidation that sort of seeps out of every whatsapp i receive, every phone call i have with someone who's working on these campaigns. i think the sort of energy of a campaign. it feels like at the start, they're obviously very lively and very excited and all the things they've been planning for for ages, you know, they suddenly do them. and then you have the first debates and the first interviews and all of that. there was definitely a lull a couple of weeks ago when they realised, 0k, well, the manifestos are out now. you've just got to repeat yourselves. but the the energy is ramping up again. but it's nervous energy now rather than sort of competitive energy. and also i mean, i've been told i'm wrong to say to expect average turnout, sort of up towards 70% in a general election. and you and chris mason have told me to brace for lower turnout. i just think that's my hunch, we don't know. but my hunch is it will be lower. and a lot of people around the place sort of expect that it will probably be lower because we know there's that mood, notjust of apathy, but kind of actually kind of angry apathy. i mean, i get really kind of smug about thinking that a vote is a precious thing. it is a precious thing. putin kills his opponents, pushes him out of windows, poisons them and kills them. and we have a democratic system. and ultimately, i still think we should take time to be humble. in fronts, infronts, in in fronts, in the uk, infronts, in the uk, we in fronts, in the uk, we are great democracies and this is a great democratic movement. i democracies and this is a great democratic movement.- democracies and this is a great democratic movement. i think it is hard if low — democratic movement. i think it is hard if low turnout _ democratic movement. i think it is hard if low turnout is _ democratic movement. i think it is hard if low turnout is a _ democratic movement. i think it is hard if low turnout is a sign - democratic movement. i think it is hard if low turnout is a sign of - hard if low turnout is a sign of political— hard if low turnout is a sign of political failure or political success. we have had high turnout since _ success. we have had high turnout since the _ success. we have had high turnout since the 2014 independence referendum. in 2017 and 2019, much higher— referendum. in 2017 and 2019, much higher than_ referendum. in 2017 and 2019, much higher than the preceding general elections. ,, higher than the preceding general elections. . , ., , higher than the preceding general elections. ,, , ., , ., higher than the preceding general elections. ,, , ., , elections. quite people go, people care less then _ elections. quite people go, people care less then they _ elections. quite people go, people care less then they used _ elections. quite people go, people care less then they used to. - elections. quite people go, people care less then they used to. i - elections. quite people go, people care less then they used to. i think thatis care less then they used to. i think that is nonsense. people care when they think there is something huge at stake. the eu referendum, people think this is a profound moment and a profound question they want to be part of giving an answer and it will be fascinating to see what happens next thursday. do people feel this is a profound moment that people want to take in, that precious process of casting a vote, or do they think that, not interested because it is the party fear, lots of people think that politics has lost its ability to be a force for good. rishi sunak this morning... keir starmer has been hammering this message to the shadow cabinet for the best part of two years. a minister had left a meeting and said, they have two opponents between them and the general election which is approaching. one is the conservative party and the other is the idea the labour party can make a difference. as well as they can beat their conservative party on thursday, we will get sensory turnout weather they have beaten that idea that they can make any difference. beaten that idea that they can make any difference-— any difference. incumbency is something — any difference. incumbency is something you _ any difference. incumbency is something you fight, - any difference. incumbency is something you fight, this - any difference. incumbency is something you fight, this is i something you fight, this is my record — something you fight, this is my record and _ something you fight, this is my record and if you are fighting that, you say— record and if you are fighting that, you say it — record and if you are fighting that, you say it is — record and if you are fighting that, you say it is a rubbish racket. you are about — you say it is a rubbish racket. you are about to— you say it is a rubbish racket. you are about to release people from presence, — are about to release people from presence, there are potholes, we have _ presence, there are potholes, we have the — presence, there are potholes, we have the cost of living crisis, rishi — have the cost of living crisis, rishi sunak says that is all true, but i _ rishi sunak says that is all true, but i am — rishi sunak says that is all true, but i am the guy that has brought inflation — but i am the guy that has brought inflation down from 11% to 2%. when you had _ inflation down from 11% to 2%. when you had him — inflation down from 11% to 2%. when you had him on the sites and on the sofa, _ you had him on the sites and on the sofa, you _ you had him on the sites and on the sofa, you have interviewed him many times, _ sofa, you have interviewed him many times, did _ sofa, you have interviewed him many times, did you see the fate we have seen _ times, did you see the fate we have seen in _ times, did you see the fate we have seen in the — times, did you see the fate we have seen in the leaders debates, did you seen in the leaders debates, did you see the _ seen in the leaders debates, did you see the fight?— see the fight? yes, this is a fi . htin: see the fight? yes, this is a fighting sioux _ see the fight? yes, this is a fighting sioux now, - see the fight? yes, this is a fighting sioux now, i - see the fight? yes, this is a fighting sioux now, i am - see the fight? yes, this is a fighting sioux now, i am a l fighting sioux now, i am a mild—mannered, measured manager. he is clearly... rishi sunak. he was wound up and feeling the pressure of the last few days and feeling the pressure of someone that most of the poll suggest, someone who is trying to stop his party heading for a complete asteroid landing on them from planet earth and who is trying to salvage something and end this in a way that might feel as if it is respectable. but it is very interesting, we started with that sentiment in the public were so many people think the country is not working after so much time of one party being in charge. what we wanted to do this morning was to force them to confront that sentiment, notjust to sit and fight about statistics. i want to reduce some of the messages that we read to him because our viewers got in touch. michael said, why does my son's school not have enough money for glue sticks. why do i have for rules on every road i drive on. == rules on every road i drive on. -- potholes- — rules on every road i drive on. -- potholes. sheila _ rules on every road i drive on. -- potholes. sheila wrote _ rules on every road i drive on. -- potholes. sheila wrote in, - rules on every road i drive on. -- potholes. sheila wrote in, our . potholes. sheila wrote in, our bi est potholes. sheila wrote in, our biggest worry _ potholes. sheila wrote in, our biggest worry is _ potholes. sheila wrote in, our biggest worry is not _ potholes. sheila wrote in, our biggest worry is not about - potholes. sheila wrote in, our biggest worry is not about taxi potholes. sheila wrote in, our . biggest worry is not about tax it's about— biggest worry is not about tax it's about having the basics. the basics! it is the basics, _ about having the basics. the basics! it is the basics, it _ about having the basics. the basics! it is the basics, it is _ about having the basics. the basics! it is the basics, it is not _ about having the basics. the basics! it is the basics, it is not even - about having the basics. the basics! it is the basics, it is not even we - it is the basics, it is not even we would like more from the government. not everybody. tell us what you think, but this is what we wanted to put to rishi sunak, a genuine sentiment that was held by many people. sentiment that was held by many --eole. , , ., people. this is what he said. of course it has — people. this is what he said. of course it has been _ people. this is what he said. of course it has been very - people. this is what he said. 0f| course it has been very difficult. when _ course it has been very difficult. when inflation _ course it has been very difficult. when inflation has _ course it has been very difficult. when inflation has risen - course it has been very difficult. when inflation has risen to- course it has been very difficult. when inflation has risen to the i when inflation has risen to the highest — when inflation has risen to the highest level. _ when inflation has risen to the highest level. the _ when inflation has risen to the highest level. the war- when inflation has risen to the highest level. the war in - when inflation has risen to the i highest level. the war in ukraine, of course — highest level. the war in ukraine, of course that _ highest level. the war in ukraine, of course that has _ highest level. the war in ukraine, of course that has an _ highest level. the war in ukraine, of course that has an impact - highest level. the war in ukraine, of course that has an impact on i of course that has an impact on sheila — of course that has an impact on sheila and _ of course that has an impact on sheila and everyone _ of course that has an impact on sheila and everyone else - of course that has an impact on sheila and everyone else and l of course that has an impact on . sheila and everyone else and that of course that has an impact on - sheila and everyone else and that is why i_ sheila and everyone else and that is why i am _ sheila and everyone else and that is why i am working _ sheila and everyone else and that is why i am working so _ sheila and everyone else and that is why i am working so hard _ sheila and everyone else and that is why i am working so hard to- sheila and everyone else and that is why i am working so hard to deliver| why i am working so hard to deliver financial— why i am working so hard to deliver financial security _ why i am working so hard to deliver financial security to _ why i am working so hard to deliver financial security to everybody. - why i am working so hard to deliver financial security to everybody. i. financial security to everybody. i want _ financial security to everybody. i want people _ financial security to everybody. i want people to _ financial security to everybody. i want people to build _ financial security to everybody. i want people to build to - financial security to everybody. i want people to build to keep - financial security to everybody. i . want people to build to keep more financial security to everybody. i - want people to build to keep more of their money— want people to build to keep more of their money so — want people to build to keep more of their money so they _ want people to build to keep more of their money so they can _ want people to build to keep more of their money so they can spend - want people to build to keep more of their money so they can spend out i want people to build to keep more of| their money so they can spend out on their money so they can spend out on their families — their money so they can spend out on theirfamilies in— their money so they can spend out on their families in the _ their money so they can spend out on their families in the way _ their money so they can spend out on their families in the way that - their money so they can spend out on their families in the way that they - their families in the way that they want _ their families in the way that they want and — their families in the way that they want and we _ their families in the way that they want and we have _ their families in the way that they want and we have been— their families in the way that they want and we have been able - their families in the way that they want and we have been able to i their families in the way that they i want and we have been able to start to do— want and we have been able to start to do that _ want and we have been able to start to do that after _ want and we have been able to start to do that after a _ want and we have been able to start to do that after a difficult _ want and we have been able to start to do that after a difficult few- to do that after a difficult few years — to do that after a difficult few years i— to do that after a difficult few ears. ,., ., , to do that after a difficult few ears. .,, , ., , ., years. i saw in those questions and his answer. — years. i saw in those questions and his answer, one _ years. i saw in those questions and his answer, one of _ years. i saw in those questions and his answer, one of the _ years. i saw in those questions and his answer, one of the fault - years. i saw in those questions and his answer, one of the fault lines i his answer, one of the fault lines of this general election campaign. he is trying to make this general election about the last 18 months, the time he has been prime minister and what he wants to do going forward in the next five years. members of the electorate keep yanking him back to the last 14 years. the labour party want to make it about that as well. when you said to him, is the country in a better state when —— right then when it was 14 years ago? he state when -- right then when it was 14 years ago?— 14 years ago? he said yes. those oor 14 years ago? he said yes. those poor primary _ 14 years ago? he said yes. those poor primary schools _ 14 years ago? he said yes. those poor primary schools who - 14 years ago? he said yes. those poor primary schools who are - 14 years ago? he said yes. those i poor primary schools who are better readers, hats off to them, every tory minister mentions them every day. there seems to be a lot of pressure on the seven—year—olds as they make their way through a cat in they make their way through a cat in the hat. i they make their way through a cat in the hat. ., �* ~' they make their way through a cat in the hat. ., �* ~ , ,, ., ,, the hat. i don't think rishi sunak has made only — the hat. i don't think rishi sunak has made only in _ the hat. i don't think rishi sunak has made only in a _ the hat. i don't think rishi sunak has made only in a way - the hat. i don't think rishi sunak has made only in a way he - the hat. i don't think rishi sunak has made only in a way he feels| has made only in a way he feels comfortable defending the record of the last 14 years. not because he does not feel it is defensible, but because he thinks that he is standing as rishi sunak, not as the combined effect of david cameron, theresa may, borisjohnson and liz truss and rishi sunak. people feel like this is an election that is delivering a verdict on their conservative party.- delivering a verdict on their conservative party. you are asking me as a voter. _ conservative party. you are asking me as a voter, i _ conservative party. you are asking me as a voter, i need _ conservative party. you are asking me as a voter, i need 19 _ conservative party. you are asking me as a voter, i need 19 years. - conservative party. you are asking me as a voter, i need 19 years. i i me as a voter, i need 19 years. i need — me as a voter, i need 19 years. i need 19— me as a voter, i need 19 years. i need 19 years and if you vote labour, _ need 19 years and if you vote labour, you are going to vote than for the _ labour, you are going to vote than for the rest — labour, you are going to vote than for the rest of your life. you will never _ for the rest of your life. you will never have _ for the rest of your life. you will never have another party. when you look at _ never have another party. when you look at the — never have another party. when you look at the tax question, what we have _ look at the tax question, what we have nailed on this programme, taxes are going _ have nailed on this programme, taxes are going up _ have nailed on this programme, taxes are going up under labour and taxes have gone _ are going up under labour and taxes have gone up under the tories and will continue to do so if they stayed — will continue to do so if they stayed because of the threshold and because _ stayed because of the threshold and because of the fact they have raised taxes _ because of the fact they have raised taxes since — because of the fact they have raised taxes since the 1940s. those things are both _ taxes since the 1940s. those things are both true at the same time, if you are _ are both true at the same time, if you are a — are both true at the same time, if you are a voter, if you did think it was about— you are a voter, if you did think it was about tax, labour has ruled out their three — was about tax, labour has ruled out their three big levers of tax raising _ their three big levers of tax raisin. . . , their three big levers of tax raisin. . .,, , ., their three big levers of tax raisin. ., .,, , ., ., raising. that has been one of the big dynamics _ raising. that has been one of the big dynamics of _ raising. that has been one of the big dynamics of the _ raising. that has been one of the big dynamics of the campaign, i raising. that has been one of the | big dynamics of the campaign, the conservative party doing this sort of raffle of taxes where you spin the ball and what comes out. inheritance tax on farmland. will you rule that out? i think in some ways, it has been quite effective. but the reason they have been