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CNNW The July 2, 2024



good morning. and welcome to our first show. where every saturday, i'll sit down with some really smart people to discuss the biggest stories and what we hope will be a different way. today, we're asking, with mounting pressure on president biden, to call for a cease-fire in gaza, how much say does he really have in what israel does? plus, legal challenges now, to keep donald trump off the ballot. should judges or voters decide his future? and later, a hot topic for parents and kids. should schools ban students? from using cell phones? our panel here is all ready to go. sit back, and grab your coffee, and let's talk about it. first, our saturday starter. president biden walking a diploma diplomatic tight rope as israel continues the offensive in gaza am response to the horrific attack by hamas last month. secretary of state blinken is back in the area this week. getting more humanitarian aid in gaza and more hostages out. here at home there are growing calls for israel to stop the bopping at least temporarily. it put president biden in a tough but familiar spot. >> amid deadly israeli air strikes on gaza, there are mounting calls for a cease-fire, putting pressure on president biden, coming even from his supporters. >> are you going to call for a cease-fire right mow? >> the president instead has a pause for getting the hostage out, a clear softening from biden's initial hard line support. >> my administration's support for israel's security is rock solid and unwavering. >> as the death toll escalates in gaza, history suggests unwavering u.s. support has an expiration date, one that is often ignored by israel. >> america's commitment to the security of israel is ironclad. >> in the early '80s, president reagan shifted from ironclad to calling for israel to end the invasion of lebanon. >> for them not to leave now could spend technically in position of an occupying force. >> but israel stayed another five months, before a deal was brokered. fast forward 30 years, president obama defended an israeli military operation in gaza. 13 days later, obama called for a cease-fire. >> a cease-fire that ends the fighting and that can stop the deaths of innocent civilians. >> but israel ignored obama's call, and continued its offensive for five more weeks. here with me on our first morning, podcaster cara swisher, author and conservative pollster, kristen system olz-anderson. "new york times" and podcast coast, and the president of the manhattan institute and contributing editor of the national review. welcome to all of you. and thank you for taking this on with me. lulu, let me start with you, because you spent years reporting from the middle east. how much actual say does biden have over the way israel conducts itself. >> a lot but not total and there is a lot different from what the president says in public, because they have constituencies like the american government and constituents and those in the middle east and what is said in pift and we don't know what president biden is saying to prime minister netanyahu in israel and for the most it looks like he is giving them the green light to pull ahead with what is going. >> and as we saw in the piece, israel does not always feel bound by the words. and israeli prime minister netanyahu says no cease-fire even temporarily until all of the hostages are released. how much attention should he pay to president biden and also to offices like the u.n. agency that says it is collecting evidence of possible war crimes? >> i believe that netanyahu is paying close attention to what the biden white house is saying, but i would urge him to do what's right and what's necessary. the euphemism of the moment is a humanitarian pause. this is a poll-tested euphemism for a cease-fire. and the truth is that israel agreed to a cease-fire in may of 2021, after hamas rocket attacks. there was a brief response from israel. and then they said we'll agree to a cease-fire. the next move was hamas slaughtering 1400 israeli civilians, something needs to be done, and i think the united states actually risks putting itself in a tricky situation, where if they do not show trust and faith in israel doing what it needs to do, israel has its own leverage, and it is going to do what it needs to do to defend itself. so they need to find some way to navigate this together. >> lulu? >> i was about to jump in, if i may, reihan, there is something else at play here which is of course israel is a sovereign country, it can do what it likes, ultimately it does need the united states, but this is a civilian population that is there, this is, you know, this is not a war in other places where people can leave, they can go and flee, and there's a big refugee outflow. this is a trapped population of 2 million people which under international law is an occupied territory. >> this is a matter for egypt. equip is -- >> should they go to egypt and be rejected from their land. most of the palestinians already in gaza, most of the palestinians are actually refugees from the war of 1948. they are refugees already once. and there has already been an understanding that the israeli government -- >> israel did not -- >> tried to get a mass exodus of -- >> it is a great deal of time and room, and it is perfectly reasonable for many of the actors who are responsible for feeding and funding hamas to take some responsibility. >> let me throw another light on to this fire, and that is that, you know, we talked about vietnam as the first television war, where people could sit at home, in easy chairs, and watch the war playing out. what we're seeing now with social media is the television war on steroids, so what impact does it have when you see first, from october 7th, the horrific images of hamas slaughtering israelis, but now, week after week, the carnage inside gaza? >> it is a disaster. and anyone running the country has to be paying attention to the visual images that are coming through at a pace never seen before. some of them real, some of them fake. all of them disturbing. and so, and confusing to people. people are confused what they're looking at. so the calculation of biden and for netanyahu, it has to be whether what do we look like? because it is not just, you know, one show a night on television. it's all the time. and that's the real problem. can you imagine world war ii on social media? you might imagine the nazis would be running europe at this point because people get horrified by war when they see it up close and that's what you're getting here, especially children dying. i think that's the real problem. >> ckristen, let me bring you into this on a slightly different point, which is the house this week passed the aid to israel and stripped out any aid to ukraine. any problem with that? >> i don't understand why in washington everything has to always be linked together. i think this is a big reason why you don't have progress on issues like immigration et cetera. i wish that the biden administration and the senate would agree to pass israel aid on its own. i understand, as somebody who wants to see aid for ukraine, why they want to link them, they want to put pressure on many of these republicans that are wobblebly on the ukraine question. but i think by requiring the things that are somewhat unrelated to constantly be linked in washington, that makes it harder for progress to be made. >> there is aid to israel, is aid to israel more urgent and more important than aid to ukraine? >> i think it's conflating two different things. i actually wanted to read a tweet by matt gaetz that he put out this week -- >> please. >> i'm going to do it. >> please don't. >> listen, he is a florida senator, at the is my hometown state. >> he said quote, israel is a land with a 4,000 year connection to our faith, ukraine is a former soviet state, these are not the same thing, and should be considered independently. this to me seemed pretty shocking that we are now looking at the 4,000 history, 4,000-year history of the middle east as a way that we should manage geopolitics. in 2023. i mean it is, you know, it seems pretty ridiculous. >> there is an urgent disaster, this is a geopolitical emergency happening in israel right now. with ukraine, there is a question of balancing our commitments, thinking about whether or not the nonmilitary assistance is appropriate. i agree with kristen, that look, this has to be immediate, it should be clean, unfortunately -- >> wait, whoa, what about passing israel aid which everybody supports means that ukraine doesn't get passed and putin is able to do exactly what he expected which is wait out the west. >> i don't think that is what happened. i think there will be an honest negotiation with different equities at stake and figure out what is and is not appropriate as opposed to to a blank check in ukraine. i think that is entirely reasonable and i think a large majority of americans would agree. >> this is not the last time ukraine aid would be discussed and at this particular point in time, as with what happened in the house with the speaker, time is of the essence and in fact republicans believe it should be an omnibus package because decoupling them makes it much more difficult. >> i will break in here because i actually thought that the congressional leaders this week have said it is going to go to the senate, there are a lot of republicans in the senate who want to package the two of them together, aid to israel, aid to ukraine, but the kreis they're going to paragraph the red line that they're going to impose because the president also has aid to the border is that they're going to have to say, you will have to do some things, joe biden and democrats that you don't like, which is basically stricter tougher enforcement of the border. anyway, now that we're all warmed up, here's what is ahead. >> donald trump is expected to testify next week in the case that will determine if his billionaire brand is a fraud. can he convince the judge it's not? also, president biden's numbers are way down, prices are way up, is it time for another democrat to bail out the party? and later, we're all falling back later tonight, but should we let the sun set on daylight saving time? our panel has a lot to say about all of it. these days, you're as likely to see donald trump in a courtroom as on the campaign trail. one legal question he's facing is, at the top of the docket this week in colorado, and several other states are also considering it, should donald trump be kept off the ballot next november under the 14th amendment to the constitution? now, section 3 of that amendment, in case you don't remember, bars anyone who has previously taken an oath to support a constitution of the united states to have engaged in insurrection or rebellion, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof, it bars them from ever holding office again. the question is, who should decide whether trump is on the ballot? judges or voters? lulu? is this a legitimate question for judges and state courts, and i guess ultimately the supreme court to be decided? >> absolutely. i don't think there is any question about that. we have separation of powers in this country. congress could have made that determination after january 6th. they could have decided to censure the former president and bar him from actually taking office again. they chose not to do so. the courts are considering this now. let me just say, they have never had to consider this ever before. it is, as we love to use this word about donald trump, unprecedented. and i think i'm not going to make any determination as to whether this should or shouldn't happen, but i think it is totally element mat that the courts actually look at this. >> reihan, i understand the argument that it is anti-democratic, the judges, not voters to decide this, but it is the 14th amendment to the constitution, it is on the books, there are cases before judges, and what they have to determine is one, whether or not january 6th was an insurrection, and two, whether or not by the terms of section 3, 14th amendment, the president, quote, engaged in it. is that legitimate? >> the law professors who set off this fire storm have introduced a couple of very tricky ambiguities. one of them is that it could be that the person who is accused of rebellion and insurrection is not allowed to take office but can be on the ballot. that's one. the other is that there's another little amendment called the 20th amendment, and there is actually a real possibility that if trump is president-elect, then congress can pass a law saying that he is not qualified. so you get another version of a january 6th-like insurrection coming from a congress that is hostile to president-elect donald trump. this is a very -- >> let's cut to the chase. are you basically saying the court shouldn't be dealing with this? >> i am definitely saying that. it should belong in the hands of voters. and if it is not, there is something called democratic legitimacy that a lot of folks talked about, back during january 6th, and this is the ire issue front and center here again, and that it could be incredibly corrosive for our courts and our institutions. >> it is called a constitution. like it should go to the supreme court, obviously. which is where it probably is headed. but 14th amendment happens to be my favorite amendment. i carry it around with me, the equal rights under the law. >> sort of like mike gaetz. >> and sometimes the supreme court, sometimes the courts overreach when it comes to democratic legitimacy, and what majorities want. >> but it should be in the court. this is something that is clearly, it needs to be determined in the court of law, and then perhaps by the voters, and in this case, it makes sense to me. >> kristen, let me talk about another legal issue. donald trump's sons, don jr. and eric were in court this week, dealing in a case in which it is alleged the trump family and the trump organization defrauded banks and insurers by inflating their worth. the two as they're known at the trump organization, the boys, both testified, and incidentally, and this is must-see tv, donald trump is testifying on monday, and ivanka apparently later in the week. so your sense, how are the trumps doing so far in this case? >> i'm not -- from a legal perspective, it doesn't feel like they're doing well but from a political perspective every poll done, suggesting this is not taking any toll on former president donald trump's standing in the primary. and any time he is under pressure legally it actually backfires for anyone who tries to use it against him to make it politically harmed by adding more fuel to the fire, and look how much they hate me and trying to prevent me from being your president again, and whether it is the court cases with the 14th amendment and trying to keep him off the ballot, he is an enormous amount of peril, he is his own worst enemy and it is where republicans will walk open-eyed to be their nominee and it seems likely that is what is going to happen and every one of these court cases is doing anything to change that. >> more stuff, more material. >> it is a virtuous circle for him, because he acts like he is aggrieved, they give him more money, he uses that money to pay his legal fees. it is a lovely self-sustaining circle. >> you know, basically, saying that the trump organization is the billionaire's net worth to defraud, it would necessarily be good, and i understand the short-term gain. let me ask you, kariya, about another issue, and that is the gag order t, there were two gag orders one was frozen by a federal appeals court but these are judges imposing gag orders because of things that donald trump has said about prosecutors, about witnesses, about court staff, here's how this became an issue. take a look. >> deranged jack smith. doesn't he look deranged? you see the picture with the purple robe? he is a deranged human being. >> very partisan judge with a person very partisan sitting alongside him. perhaps even much more partisan than he is. >> i don't know about mike pence. he should endorse me. i chose him. made him vice president. but people in politics can be very disloyal. >> should judges ban donald trump -- >> no, i mean he's shameless. if you have no shame, you can do it. they got to execute and hold him to account, and they're not going to do that. so he knows that. and so it is like saying to a lion, do not touch that gazelle over there. do not, do not, and he just does it, and then they have to do something about it. >> i think he actually would like that analogy. a lion and a gazelle. >> on the democratic side, president biden faces his own set of problems, including whether he should keep saying this. >> it's called biden-omics. >> biden-omics. >> that's the american dream. that's biden-omics. >> is biden-omics a winner or a loser? the panel tells us what they think next. is it possible my network could take my business to the next level? it is with comcast business. powering all your devices with gig-speed wifi. and you get fast downloads and uploads. pick it up! pick it up! oh we got this! because it's powered by the next generation 10g network. more speed for your business? it's not just possible. it's happening. get started for $59.99 a month for 12 months. plus, ask how to get an $800 prepaid card with a qualifying internet bundle. comcast business, powering possibilities. show biden is entering campaign season under water. his poll numbers are among the lowest for a president seeking re-election. a majority of democratic voters don't even want him to run. and yet only one democrat is challenging him, a little-known congressman from minnesota. the same congressman who represents the district biden visited this week to kickoff a campaign tour. >> let's unite this country. let's do it together. >> president biden making an interesting campaign stop this week. in the backyard of his only democratic primary opponent. >> it's time for a new generation to take the reins. >> minnesota congressman dean phillips on the trail pushing a message party leaders want to hear. >> america is telling all of us they do not want this man as our nominee. >> phillips long shot bid, trying to capitalize on an unpopular president, whose latest poll numbers are stuck below 40%. part of the reason, the economy. with roughly the same minority of voters approving of biden's performance. and here is a good example of why. americans are paying a lot more for every day items. like a box of cereal. now going for $9. but the president keeps doubling down on the republican attack phrase, he thinks he can turn into a plus. >> biden-omics. >> biden ommics. >> that's biden-omics. >> so, kristen how much trouble is joe biden in, particularly in swing states, and particularly among independents? >> he's in a lot of trouble. and in fact, because of everything we just talked about with donald trump, he's likely to be his adversary and trump keeps shooting himself in the foot and he and biden are effectively tied in polls and that's because you have this message that the biden campaign is trying to drive, don't believe your lying eyes, we promise you the economy is great, and look, if you just take out housing, fuel, food, and used cars, you have a great economy. well, guess what? a lot of people spend money on food, fuel, and housing. and the sorts of things that remain very expensive. so i think biden is not even close to a shoo-in for re-election. it is hard to unseat a sitting president but when the economy feels this bad to people -- >> i have a theory, and that is that biden is the only democrat who can lose to trump, and trump is the only republican that can lose to biden, so i actually think there's kind of neutral dependence there. >> i mean look, this is washington reporters chattering. how do you look

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