>>the nation will pay tribute to rosalynn carter, the -- 77 years to -- jimmy carter, died over the weekend at 90. six of eight from, today there will be a wreath-laying ceremony at georgia southwestern state university, following that, services at the carter presidential library in two days later, a funeral service for family and friends at the baptist church in plains, georgia where the former president currently in hospice care, taught sunday school for. decades the news continues, the source with kaitlan collins starts now. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> tonight, a remarkable clash underway inside the appeals court that is wrestling with the scope of donald trump's gag order. we'll take you inside the heated arguments that happened today. plus, the white house is hopeful and negotiations between israel and hamas for the release of the hostages are, quote close to the end. the and -- being held in gaza, sure hopes, will speak with us in moments. a tech titans at sudden -- has upended the world of artificial intelligence, the shake-up leaves the future of open a. i., and out today with more than half of its employees threatening to walk out. i'm kaitlyn, collins and this is the source. tonight we are watching a decision that could come down at any moment, and would have significant consequences for the criminal defendants and presidential candidate donald trump. three federal judges right now are deciding whether to keep, or get rid of a gag order, in that criminal case in washington d. c., accusing him of plotting to overturn the election. when it was in, place it restricted his ability to directly attack the special counsel, members of his, team court, staff and maybe most importantly potential witnesses at his trial. americans actually got to listen in on these arguments today. >> the order is unprecedented, and it's a terrible precedent for future restrictions on political speech. >> it's only affecting speech temporarily during a criminal trial process by someone who's been indicted as a felon. no one here is threatening the first amendment broadly. >> from what we heard, it sounds like the three judge panel is poised to reinstate at least some version of the gag order. you heard one judge saying there that it does not broadly threaten his first amendment rights, but they also say they may be losing other parts of the scratch, order like allowing trump to criticize special counsel. one judge suggested essentially that jack smith, that special counsel could handle the verbal attacks. >> everyone else is throwing targets at him. >> it can't be that he can't mention mr. smith. >> surely he has a second of skin. >> all eyes tonight are on the d. c. circuit court of appeals, waiting for word and as we wait, joining me now is former federal prosecutor, and cnn legal analyst elliott williams. elliott, i know this is unprecedented, trump is totally blurring the lines between his legal defense, his presidential race,. what do you expect the judges to do? how do they balance that? >> i think they keep some form of gag order in place, but they just carve it up a little bit differently. the charges seem to be signaling that by perhaps opening the gag order up to allowing criticism of jack smith directly, or something like that. look, this is -- we talk about a lot of legal issues in the context of donald, trump and i can say with certainty that the first amendment, free speech is by far the hardest to figure out. this is because everyone in america, regardless of citizenship status is entitled to free speech, no one is entitled to threaten and everybody else. a line between those two can be very complicated, particularly when you're dealing with candidates for office, it is just incredibly complicate x. the judges today, they were very exceptionally bright individuals, all three of. them i know them a little bit in town, here were really struggling with that, soon we'll have to see where they land on this. >> it was fascinating to be able to listen into them go back and forth with the trump attorneys, special counsel's team. if this order is upheld, if it goes back into effect. i think what we could see happen is with the judge here, judge chutkan having to deal with something pretty extraordinary which is what happens if trump violates that gag order? >> enforcement is itself a question. number, one she can warn the former president once again, as he's been warned multiple times in other cases. then you move to this new world of some sort of enforcement order, or often in federal, court what you would do is file a new proceeding, to bring criminal contempt proceedings against an individual. that's never happened before, certainly for a former president. it's one of those unprecedented areas. it's just again, what do you do? one of the questions that came up today was is do you wait for a threat to come? or do you preemptively bar him from threatening anybody. even that is a little bit complicated. it's a little bit tricky. it just remains to be seen how exactly they're going to handle it, -- if he doesn't, and they just want to prevent him from doing it in the future. >> yes, it's no small task for the stretches. we will see what they decide, elliott williams thank you for your analysis. of, course as we wait to see what they decide, this continuing swirl of legal troubles, around the former president, he is still the overwhelming favorite for the republican nomination, at least at this point in time. my next guest is learning new details about what a second trump term in the white house could look like. joining me now with a rare appearance here on cnn, his first on the source, abc news chief warranting court -- jonathan karl who is the author of the new, book tired of warning, donald trump in the end of grand old party, john, carl it's great to have you here. as we're waiting to see what these judges are going to decide, as you heard elliott talk about, it part of the centered on he's been attacking potential witnesses, mike, pants bill, barr general milley. it's kind of trump's dna to do that, he often does it in very personal terms. if the panel rules against him. do you think he'll be able to help himself here? >> it's hard to imagine it. i thought it was very interesting in the proceedings when the charges in questioning the prosecution questioning defense council, they used the example of mike pence. what if trump issued a warning to mike pence before he testified in this case, if he were to testify in an open trial, and said mike pence is a chance once again to do the right thing. we saw what happened on january 6th when trump put so much pressure on pence, it literally unleashed a mob, seeking his execution. trump just a couple of months after that, told me that the mob was chanting, hang mike pence because they were angry. he had absolutely no criticism whatsoever of the people calling for the execution of his vice president. no, i have a hard time imagining even with a gag order that trump won't test of the limits of that gag order. >> you mentioned the last days of the trump white house, and your book, there's a chapter were you kind of see this isolated and defeated trump, he's been banished to mar-a-lago, it's the end of his presidency, and you write about how the days that followed him were kind of bleak, he was spending his days djing on a patio, just this for a remarkable moment from going to the white house, i'm wondering what you think those days, how his first term and it would tell you about what a second trump term would look like? >> well caitlin, one thing i detailed is how in the final weeks, really the final few months of the trump administration, they went about a process of trying to root out all of the people that were in any way disloyal, or not sufficiently loyal to donald trump. johnny mcentee, he's very junior aide, he at one point was just carrying the presidents bags around, and it was put in charge of the white weeks, really the final few months of the trump administration, they went about a process of trying to root out all of the people that were in any way disloyal, or not sufficiently loyal to donald trump. johnny mcentee, he's very junior aide, he at one point was just carrying the presidents bags around, and it was put in charge of the white house personnel office, he led this efforts to root out this loyalists, and by the time you got to january 6th, there were very few people left to challenge the presidents, but there were a few. there were people like white house counsel pat cipollone who tried to keep him from doing things that were blatantly illegal. of course he was gone shortly before january, sixth but bill barr at the justice department, and jeffrey rosen who replaced him. the thing is, i believe based on the reporting in this, book it a second trump term begins with all of those people who would have kept him in check, who did keep him at least partially in check in those final days, of his presidency, would be gone. they would not be there. they're going to hire for loyalty. one of johnny mcatee's top aides back then has put it more recently, loyalty is more important than policy. you can teach policy, but you cannot teach loyalty. they are going to make sure that this is not a team of rivals, not a team of people supporting the constitution first and foremost, but a team of people supporting at all costs donald trump. >> it also speaks to how he viewed people who supported biden. you write that he hung up on kin kardashian, at one point because he assumed that she had voted for joe biden. >> he does not want to deal with any disloyalty whatsoever. he saw that as a betrayal. by the way, he had no idea who kim kardashian actually voted for. kim kardashian, who -- for criminal justice reform, was going and trying to get his help in seeking a pardon, in -- clemency for someone who is on to, throw and trump did not want to hear about. it he just wanted to berate her over the, phone you want help from me? you want me to help you after you voted for joe biden? so that is, that's the attitude, it's loyalty above all costs. it is loyalty above policy. it is loyalty a not to a constitution, or to the country, but loyal to donald trump. >> and you know, when i think about this, over the weekend when we saw what happened in argentina, the leader who won there, as we covered the, white house you saw trump had this affinity for these strongman leaders. he is congratulating this newly elected president of argentina, someone who has drawn comparisons to, trump because of a populist message, embracing conspiracies, what do you make of looking at what a second trump could potentially look like? the way that his style has spread overseas. >> well, and i think that he, it's his style that has, spread but it also feeds over. that he admires these strongman leaders, whether it be putin, or president xi, or kim jong-un. or viktor orban and hungary that knew the -- leader of argentina. there is an incident that i wrote about that never came to light before the very end of the trump white house, the leaders of the army put out a statement, this is the chief of staff of the army and the secretary of the army, putting out a statement, do you remember when michael flynn had come out and called for martial law, suggesting there could be martial law to rerun the election, and the leaders, the active duty leaders of the army put out a simple statement saying there is no role for the u.s. military in determining the outcome of an american election. very basic fundamental stuff here, there is no role for the u.s. military to determine the outcome of an election, trump was infuriated, and directed his man johnny mcatee to make sure that that never happened again, reported back to, him he had spoken to the secretary of defense, who spoke to both those ami leaders, and assured him it would never happen, again and it fitted they would both be fired. i think that trump in a second term kind of fancies himself as somebody that will be the commander, not just of the executive branch, but the military. the commander in chief, but not in a way of the traditional sense that you see presidents, but that they will respond to him on all things, including things domestically. whether it be the insurrection act, putting down rioters, or whatever he had in mind with what they would do in terminating the outcome of an election. >> john carl, it's a lot of good reporting in this book, very important read. thank you for joining us here on cnn. >> thank you caitlin. >> great to have you, someone who is trying to prevent that term, with everything he's, got his 2024 republican primary opponent chris christie, he will join me plus families of hostages met with the israel prime minister today, they want answers, that comes amid optimism from the u.s., we'll speak to a family member of an american hostage right after this. fighting. but i should note nothing has been agreed to, yet nothing is final. we've been speaking to israeli officials regularly about how fluid these talks, are where they are going. they've been urging a lot of caution. but what we do know is that the pressure on the israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu is only growing more intense tonight. the families of israeli hostages met with him in a war cabinet earlier, they want answers and it written commitment to bring their family members home. three year old abigail dawn is the youngest known american hostage. her parents were killed in the october 7th attacks. i'm joined now by her great aunt, liz hearst naftali. we should point she was a point to the u.s. commission for these tonight, and -- when the deal is closed, have you gone have you gotten any information about a deal from the u.s. or anybody, about israel? >> we hear what you hear, we hear what everyone has been hearing. it's frustrating, because throughout this whole time, it's been dark. we have been metaphorically it's dark, we don't know, and virtually, it is dark for these people that are in gaza. we have no answers. people think that we are getting specific information. and just like everybody, we hear very close to having a deal. until we actually see hostages released, we really don't know anything. >> and you are wearing the number on your jacket of how many days she has been held in gaza. i mean, if you could speak to those people who are negotiating, the -- who are negotiating these talks, what would you want them to know? >> well, first, 44 is the amount of days since these innocent civilians were of deducted and taken as hostages. and i wear this in solidarity with rachel colbert, whose son hirsh was kidnapped, taken, his arm blown off, and was taken as a hostage. and we have been wearing this to really make it clear that 44 days, how long abigail, she is a three-year-old little girl. there are over 30 children. there is over 50 children and mothers. i cannot imagine as a mother what it is like to be somewhere in the dark, without the family. and abigail is an orphan. abigail's parents were murdered on october 7th. and she is with -- >> how her siblings doing? i know they survived living in a closet. >> they survived. and you know, how are six and a ten year old are after surviving -- after seeing both their parents murdered? they have a beautiful family. they have a loving family. and they are able to be themselves and to talk about what happened and to share what happened. and they're very much forward in telling what their stories are. and they're with their grandparents and with their aunts and uncles, many of whom survived from the kibbutz. so they're part of the community, and i grew up with them nearby. >> i cannot even imagine the trauma that a six and a ten year old would feel over this. >> i can't. >> and when you talk about abigail, her fourth birthday is this friday. what do you think about when you think about the fact that she could be turning four and trapped in gaza? >> wow, i can't imagine, i can't imagine her having a birthday and turning for. living alone, without her family, and i think about her sister and brother. and there one hope is that abigail comes home. and for them to have her come home before friday and to be there and to have her celebrate her birthday in their arms is a dream i have. and i just imagine, i keep hoping that each day we wake up and we hear that there really is a release. because you know, you think about that, a nine month old child turns ten months as a hostage. and you think of abigail turning for as a hostage. these are innocent civilians, these are children that -- babies. and sue, you know, i just keep hoping and believing and there is been so much outpouring of love and support from people across the world, people from all different backgrounds. it's a humanitarian issue. this is not political, these are people who are innocent civilians. and i just keep thinking as a mother having a child as a hostage, it is -- it's inconceivable, to be honest. >> it is inconceivable. and i hope you know that we are all thinking of you. and we realize how important it is to tell your stories. and we are hopeful for abigail and everyone, they all come home. >> thank you, thank you for letting me tell our story. you know, i just want to tell you, i keep abigail's picture with me all the time. and this is the strength, because when i look at this picture, i believe that she is going to come home and be with her family and we are going to embrace her. and we'll be able to bring home the hostages. >> thank you, liz. >> thank you for having me. >> thank you, and we're hopeful for that as well. >> thank you. >> of course, israel has been a massive topic on the campaign trail, even here at home. we are going to speak with the candidate, a candidate who went there, chris christie. he just spent time on the ground in israel. he is a new warning for voters tonight. he will l join us lilive in moments.s. > >> tonight, on the ground in new hampshire, governor chris christie with a new warning for voters who are considering making donald trump the gop nominee. >> if trump is the nominee, because of trump is the nominee, i bet, you manchin is going to run. and you could have a situation where nobody gets to 270. and then it goes the house of representatives. if you think our country is divided now, imagine when that happens. those jokers took three weeks to pick a speaker. imagine how long it will take them to pick a president. and who knows where that will end up. >> that could be a nightmare scenario, but one that governor kristi clearly sees as a possibility. the former jersey governor and presidential candidate is here with me. now governor christie, you know, i think half that audience broke out of a cold sweat, the other in hives, when you said that. do you really think that could happen? >> sure. it absolutely is a possibility. look, the country has been very clear, kaitlan. a lot of times when poland gets close you can wonder if it's true or not. but i have seen the polling that you have seen, which is 75% or more of the people and the united states don't want it to be a trump biden matchup. and if that's what it turned out to be, you would be in a situation where i would think for sure you would see these no labels folks coming in, joe manchin or some other candidate, would come into the race. and then, we really could have a situation where nobody gets to 270. so i think that is another risk that republican voters have to consider when you're considering whether or not to vote for donald trump. >> and i mean, there is a plan for what would happen there, and basically, each state would get a single vote. and right now, if you look at republicans control 26 state delegations, democrats have 22. this is obviously farfetched, i should note. but given the presence of these third-party candidates and potential candidates right now, i mean, h