a dictator on day one, but only day one. donald trump in his own words on what a second trump presidency will look like. a cnn exclusive, guess who was on the witness list when donald trump goes on trial in georgia? former vice president mike pence, on a coalition course for a historic courtroom standoff. and a rampage across two cities leaves six people dead in texas. the grisly killings at five different crime scenes. i'm sara sidner with john berman and kate bolduan. this is "cnn news central." ♪ a dictator for a day. donald trump in iowa last night offered ample -- offered ample opportunity by a fredly host and audience to make clear he won't lean into his authoritarian tendencies if he wins the election, an opportunity that trump took and did this -- >> do you in any way have any plans whatsoever if reelected president to abuse power, to break the law, to use the government to go after people? >> you mean like they're using right now. >> also in all of that asked about being a dictator. we will get to morph that in a moment. "politico's" take on it all, a presidential front runner ideally musing about being a dictator even for a day is not normal stuff. also not normal is this, a former vice president possibly testifying against his former boss who is facing multiple indictments for trying to steal an election that he lost while he's currently running for president again. all of that to say prosecutors in georgia have now put mike pence on their witness list in the state's 2020 election subversion case. one has to wonder if any or all of this will come up in the presidential debate tonight. four republican presidential candidates taking the stage in another face-off. again, not on the list will be, of course, the front runner, donald trump. skipping it again while he remains 50 plus points ahead in the polls for the republican nomination. cnn's alayna treene leads us off. take us to last night to understand where we are today. what happened in this interview? >> reporter: yeah, well, i think you showed some of that clip earlier, kate, where sean hannity tried a few times to get donald trump to deny that if he were elected in 2024 to the white house that he would not abuse presidential power, he would not use the government to go after his political enemies, but donald trump did not take the opportunity to do that. here is more of that exchange. >> under no circumstances you are promising america tonight you would never abuse power as retribution against anybody. >> except for day one. >> except for -- >> he's going crazy. except for day one. >> meaning? >> i want to close the border and i want to drill, drill, drill. he says you're not going to be a dictator, are you? i said, no, no, no, other than day one. we're closing the border and we're drilling, drilling, drilling, after that i'm not a dictator, okay? >> now, to put it bluntly, kate, i mean it was a bit of a weird answer. i agree with "politico" on that. i mean, donald trump has completely -- or completely deflected last night from answering that question, instead he joked about being a dictator and tried to flip the script and put it on joe biden, arguing that biden is the one abusing his power and pointing to the four indictments that trump is facing. but, look, i think we need to be very clear here, donald trump has said publicly both on the campaign trail, but also in his interviews that he would try to weaponize the justice department to go after his enemies and i think, you know, a lot of this is coming as there's intense media scrutiny on what a trump second term would look like and a lot of these plans that we have reported on and other outlets have reported on are planning that the campaign doesn't deny. now, i do think the reason there is so much attention around what an expansive second term could look like is not necessarily because trump's rhetoric is increasing on this, this is really the same language that he's been using since he announced that he was going to run for election last year, but it's bece six weeks away to the iowa caucuses and donald trump still has a commanding lead in the polls and that's led a lot of people, republicans, democrats, critics, to wonder what exactly would a second trump administration look like. >> good to see you. thank you. >> with me now is former obama administration official van jones and david urban, republican strategist and former trump campaign adviser. they are both cnn political analysts. with me in studio, van, i want to replay the initial question from sean hannity. just so we are all -- >> pretty simple question. >> pretty simple question from a guy who isn't really trying to expose the former president here. let's listen. >> do you in any way have any plans whatsoever if reelected president to abuse power, to break the law, to use the government to go after people? >> do you have any plans to abuse power, break the law or go after people? and here is the thing, van, we timed it. he didn't answer that question for five minutes. for five minutes. >> wow. >> he obfuscated, didn't give a yes or no. for five minutes. and when he finally did answer, the answer was dictator on day one. what do you hear there? >> well, i mean, in some ways it's kind of like the guy at ellis island, they say do you have a case of overthrowing the government which force or violence? and he goes, violence? this is a very easy question, a simple yes or no question, and there was an opportunity to set the record straight, to tell people i do not plant to do this. i plan to follow the law. he didn't do it. there's not a simple human being on earth that would take more than five seconds to answer a question like that the right way, he couldn't get it five in five minutes. >> david, i want to make clear. this isn't a complete vacuum when it comes to trump himself or the people he has surrounded himself with including kash patel who worked in the last administration, i know you know kash patel. "the new york times" noted today an interview with steve bannon patel said, quote, we will go out and find the conspirators not just in the government but in the media. yes, we're going to come after the people in the media who lied about american citizens. we're going to come after you whether it's criminally or civilly. >> it's nuts, right? it's crazy. i can tell you firsthand that i know that the trump campaign and the inner circle of the trump campaign which kash patel is not part of is none too happy with those comments. they're indefensible. clearly indefensible. so to be out there saying that, there's no way you can respond to it other than say it's just wrong, right? what he's saying is wrong. >> you will say that and the campaign will say that, unfortunately the candidate won't say that, that's the problem. >> and to your point about what the former president said last night to hannity, look, hannity twisted his arm a little bit and saying, saying uncle, say uncle, donald trump. you know this, van knows this, when trump gets pushed into a corner he's not going to admit that he did something wrong. he said i will be a dictator insomuch as that i am going to close the border, insomuch as i'm auto going to drill. if those things are being a dictator i'm a dictator. >> that was after five minutes of not promising he wouldn't abuse power. >> he was being too cute by half. as we get closer and closer to the election there will be more scrutiny. the only person that's going to beat donald trump in this election is donald trump, not joe biden, not nikki haley. >> how should voters interpret this? >> i think when somebody tells you who they are, you should believe them. this is -- i think people forget a democratic republic, it's the most rare form of government in human history. you have 10,000 years of human history, ours is the oldest, it's a couple hundred years old. these things fall apart all the time. the usual thing a strong man comes on the scene and you don't have a democracy anymore. that's happening in countries around the world, it can happen here. he's trying to be cute, trying to be clever, that's what people who like him think. but if you have somebody who is in a position of power, your boss or your clergy men, whatever, who talked about power the way he does, you would be very concerned. you would be concerned about america today. >> go ahead. >> celine my friend coined this phrase which is very popular during the 2016 campaign, you know, trump supporters take him seriously but not literally. his detractors take him literally but not seriously. i think you're seeing more of that today. >> do you think that still holds after he's been in office for four years? liz cheney, by the way, liz cheney distinctly doesn't, the atlantic doesn't, other people have been talk being that this week. i want to play liz cheney from last night. she seems to be saying we don't have the luxury, she says, of taking literally or seriously. we have to pay attention because it's different this time. listen. >> i think it's naive and a real misreading of what we've lived through to think that we can count on the guardrails that we have in place. donald trump tried to seize power in 2020, he's learned the lessons of 2020 and 2021, and so i think anybody who says, well, don't worry, you can count on the balance of power and the institutions, that's really wishful thinking that we can't afford. >> van? s>> i think she's right. any job you have you're a little better the second day than you are the first or the second year than you are the first, the second time than you are the first. the first time donald trump got there he didn't think he was going to win in the first place, he had a campaign team a very small one, he didn't have the governing capacity. now he knows how this thing works and a lot of the marbles that people put on the stairs for him, the banana peels that people put on the sidewalk for him those people won't be there. he will be expected to deliver on these promises. i think people should take it seriously. it won't just be this kind of circus type of thing. he's going to come in with a disciplined plan to do a lot of stuff that could could hurt a lot of people. >> who is going to stop him? >> he's going to have a plan, take down some institutions and things that dismantle some things that he doesn't like and republicans don't like, but i do think -- i disagree with liz cheney that our government is going to collapse if donald trump -- i disagree thabreathle atlantic article or the economist saying he is the greatest threat to democracy and the world this 2024. he will challenge the things going on in washington. he will get elected. >> who is going to keep him from crossing a line? >> listen, there is a system in place, checks and balances, there is a senate, right, the senate has to confirm people. >> josh hawley, ted cruz? >> you know this, you need 60 votes to get anything done in the senate. 60 votes. when the republicans controlled the house, senate and the white house they couldn't get things done. you need advice and consent to confirm people. >> what you are talk being is for legislation and confirmationes. >> yeah. >> on a day to day basis, hour by hour, minute by minute basis the president of the united states does a lot of stuff and that person doesn't respect the rules and has a team of people who don't that's a dangerous situation. >> that's the assumption you're going to make. >> van jones, david urban, thanks. >> there will be more of this. >> good morning, brother. >> sara? six people have been killed in a wave of violence across two texas cities. police say the rampage started tuesday morning in san antonio. two people were killed at a home in what police say was a grizzly crime scene. the violence continued in austin where four more people were killed and two police officers and a bicyclist were shot and wounded. police say all of this violence is linked to one suspect who has been arrested. cnn's ed lavandera joins us now from dallas. give us a sense of what happened here and how this played out. >> reporter: good morning, sara. well, this is a troubling timeline. investigators believe that the killings started -- this killing spree started yesterday morning in the san antonio area where a man and woman were found dead in their home as investigators described it as a grizzly scene. and then it moved to austin, around just before 11:00 a.m. at a high school in austin, a school police officer was shot and wounded in the leg. two hours after that a shooting was reported at another home and that is where investigators discovered the bodies of another man and woman. and then several hours after that there was a man on a bicycle who reported being shot and wounded as well. and then after that there was a burglary report where investigators found the suspect in the backyard, exchanged gun fire with him and that led to a chase where they eventually captured this man, but inside that home there were two other people dead. so basically five different shooting scenes, six people killed, three people wounded, two of those police officers, and investigators in san antonio said, as i mentioned, that the initial shooting scene was a grizzly crime scene. >> i think it happened and i believe the bodies were relocated to where they are now and they're wedged inside a very small room. they are up against the door so we are not able to fully make entry. but we can see that clearly they're deceased in there, but certainly it's a pretty grizzly crime scene in there. >> reporter: so after the last shooting took place there yesterday afternoon in austin, there was a chase. investigators and police there in austin took a man in his 30s into custody. he is now facing capital murder charges. what we're still waiting to find out more about is what is the motivation behind all of this. is there a connection between all of these different shooting and murder scenes as well. that information we still don't know at this point. sara? >> it is just stunning the number of people and places that he went on this killing spree. thank you so much, ed lavandera, with that report. kate? coming up for us, senators in a shouting match. what happened in a closed-door briefing of cabinet officials and the u.s. senate? we will have more on that and why it now has the push to help ukraine and israel on the brink of collapse. plus, cnn exclusive reporting on who is on the witness list for donald trump's georgia election interference case. it is not taylor swift. i will tell you that. for one thing. but new this morning taylor swift was just named "time's" person of the year. we will be right back. this morning sounds of alarm from the u.s. senate, quote, i just don't think there's any question that we are about to abandon ukraine. that from democratic senator chris murphy after a classified briefing on ukraine turned into a shouting match with more than a dozen republicans walking out. a test vote on ukraine aid could come as soon as today. cnn's lauren fox is on capitol hill with the very latest this morning. what's the status, lauren? >> reporter: yeah, and, john, this is all stemming from the reality that a lot of republicans and democratic senators they agree on the reality that more money needs to be sent to ukraine. what they disagree about and why this briefing yesterday behind closed doors got so tender points -- tense is that they do not have any agreement on what to do at the southern border and what policy changes democrats and republicans could agree to live with moving forward. that issue has vexed the overall supplemental package for moving forward. we expect a procedural vote later this afternoon on that package, but we also expect that republicans are going to vote against it. behind closed doors yesterday in that intelligence briefing that was classified, you had senators arguing that things got so tense that they devolved into a shouting match. here is majority leader chuck schumer. >> it was immediately hijacked by leader mcconnell. then when i brought up the idea that they could do an amendment and have the ability to get something done on border, you know, they get -- they got stuck. they didn't like it and even one of them started -- was disrespectful and started screaming at one of the generals and challenging him to why he didn't go to the border. >> people got up and walked out because this is -- it's a waste of time. they just said, this isn't worth it. this is a joke. you are not serious about this. i'm going. you know, and i don't blame them. >> reporter: and you heard there majority leader schumer alluding to the fact that he says that republicans could have an amendment vote if they wanted on any border security policy they want to put forward, but that would require them getting bipartisan support because they would need 60 votes in the senate. that of course a very high bar to clear, john, and something that republicans are arguing just is not enough. they want democrats back at the negotiating table, they want to find a path forward that they can all agree to, add that to the bill and move that supplemental package forward. right now we are a long ways from that becoming a reality. john? >> a long ways. all right. lauren fox on capitol hill, thank you very much. kate? >> joining us now for more on this is republican senator pete ricketts of nebraska, he sits on the foreign relations committee. thank you for coming in. why did it get so contentious in that briefing last night? what's going on here from your perspective? >> well, i think one of the things -- of course, these are very high stakes negotiations and so there is a lot on the line here. so i think temperatures are rising. i think we have to remain calm and cool. you know, at the end of the day divided government which means there has to be a negotiation here and frankly we've been talking about this since september. the president put it into his supplemental package so he brought the border in here. the speaker has been very clear about what he needs to see with regard to the border. we've got to have some policy changes, that's what we as republicans in the senate want to see. so this negotiation just has to get on to be able to move forward on the supplemental package. >> it sounds like this vote is going to fail today as lauren fox is laying it out. mcconnell has said that that should send a loud message to democrats of how serious you all are about the border and having it be included as part of this negotiation. what message does it send to ukraine if this vote fails today? >> well, one of the things that i tell all of our allies that our democracies at least is they know that democracies are messy, that it takes time, you know, as winston churchill said it's the worst form of government except for all the other ones so this is just part of the process. so we've got to be able to continue to negotiate. frankly, i don't know how leadership expects anybody to vote for the supplemental when we haven't even seen -- we are not going to vote on something we don't know what we're voting on. that's crazy. that's not going to fly. hopefully it does send a message to democrats that we have divided government, there's going to have to be a negotiation, that this is important for everybody. there's broad agreement on supporting for ukraine, israel, indo-pacific. we've got to get something on the border. the president put it in his package. so we just need to sit down and get the negotiation under way. >> that's why this, i think, is -- makes people scratch their heads. if this kind of broadly is an area where everyone agrees to support israel, to support ukraine, more funding for the border, why is it devolving into shouting matches? i mean, i look back and you've been consistent on your message for support for ukraine. in september after