Transcripts For MSNBCW Alex 20240702

thanksgiving. >> have a great holiday. >> you too, and enjoy your mother is delicious, reportedly delicious thanksgiving stuffing. >> it's the best! >> see you. >> thanks to you at home for joining me this hour. after 47 days of fighting, 47 days of israeli hostages held in captivity, israel and hamas have agreed to a four-day pause in fighting in exchange for the release of 50 hostages. the timing of it all may still be an open question. now the deal was brokered by qatar, egypt, and the united states. and it was also supposed to start by 3 am eastern time tonight. but israeli officials are now saying that the release of hostages will not happen before friday. what that means for the timing of the temporary cease-fire is unclear. the new york times reports that the cease-fire may also be delayed until friday. but nbc news has not confirmed this. the deal itself involves the release of 50 civilian women and children currently held by hamas. the release of 150 palestinian women and children currently held in israeli jails. and the delivery of more humanitarian aid to gaza. u.s. officials have warned that we won't know for sure which hostages will be released until they are actually released. but national security adviser jake sullivan told nbc news today that three americans should be part of this initial group of 50. two women and child. the hostages will be released in four phases, one group for each day the fighting is paused. around ten hostages are expected to be freed every day over the course of four days beginning on friday. now, there is an option for this system of cease-fire and release to go on as long as ten days. an additional ten hostages would be released for each day that there is a pause in fighting. so today is a hopeful day. but it is also the start of a week filled with anxiety, as family members of hostages way to see if their loved ones will be among those released. >> it's been so long. we have been stuck on october 7th for 45 days. looping this in our minds over and over again. and just to have a sliver of hope, just a break already. just a break. >> no information, i'm very nervous and frustrated and i'm waiting for news. i want to just good news. i don't want any bad news anymore. >> one side, i'm happy. second, i'm worried. okay? because nobody told me that my family will be in this deal. okay? there was 40 children inside gaza and they are only going to release 30. where the others? i don't know. >> american officials cannot confirm which hostages will be released. though, certain family members like the loved one -- american hostage herschel brick poland, they already believe their loved ones are not likely to be among these first 50 released. goldberg is a young man, and the deal struck today is limited to women and children. instead, his mother had another demand. videos of the october 7th attack show that her son was severely injured. half of his left arm was blown off by a grenade. here was his mother's plea today. >> i am not counting hostages being freed in this deal until i see them walk over the border and be embraced safely. and then, god willing, these 50 hostages are released and still lose a another hundred 90 hostages that need to be released. and in the meantime, we would like the international red cross or any other humanitarian aid organization on planet earth to go and see every single hostage and let us know, are they alive? have they've been treated? are they getting the care that they need? >> hours after that plea, prime minister netanyahu announced that as part of the deal, the red cross will get to visit unreleased hostages to provide care. that detail was negotiated so secretly, and at the last minute, that the red cross put out a statement saying that the organization itself only learned of this development from netanyahu's remarks. the red cross followed up by saying that it stands ready to conduct visits whenever it is allowed. as the details of this highly choreographed exchange of 50 hostages are ironed out, the hope here is that this will be the start of a process that could return all of the hostages still inside gaza. but keeping these negotiations on track is a delicate balance, and a tense one. the situation is equally tense inside gaza tonight. i will warn you, some of the images we are about to show you our unsettling. so if you would like to turn away now, this is the time to do so. this is a video of a mass grave being dug today in khan yunis in the southern half of gaza. more than 100 people were buried there anonymously today. part of the 14,000 who have died since the beginning of this conflict. that is according to the hamas-run gaza media office. that number includes more than 5000 children. and the fighting in gaza has not yet stopped, it is expected to continue right up until that pause. whether that is at 3 am eastern tonight, or later in the week. one of the details that has still not yet been confirmed here in this agreement is how much aid gets into gaza and to quickly. maybe the most contentious and desperately needed aid in gaza right now is fuel. this is a video from yesterday of internally displaced gazans pushing past each other and essentially breaking apart an aid truck. they were looking for water. according to the united nations, around 70% of gazans or jury drinking selenide and contaminated water. without, fuel they have an eye on able to power dissemination plants, water pumps, and sewage pumps. leaving more than 1 million people without clean drinking water or sanitary living conditions. and then there are glasses hospitals. because of the lack of fuel, this week the world health organization said that critical trauma care is no longer possible at any of gaza's hospitals. that includes care for premature babies and neonatal intensive care units, or nikki use as they are called. after the weekend -- evaluated 31 of 36 and icu rabies from the al-shifa hospital in northern gaza. the u.n. reports of the other five babies died due to a lack of electricity and fuel. all 31 of the evacuate babies have serious infections. one of them is on a ventilator. the world health organization warns that even though this proof of babies made it out, over 180 women give birth every day in gaza. so the need for care like this will not go away. not to mention the need to care for the tens of thousands of other wounded cousins, which would also require fuel. now, allowing more fuel into gaza is an explicit part in this deal. but how much of it and how quickly it gets in, that is all unclear. the broad strokes of this dealer in place. but that is just a step one. all of the details here are important. many of them are matters of life and death. and many of them are still being worked out as we speak. joining me now is ben rhodes, former deputy national security adviser for president obama. and co-host of the podcast pod save the world. ben, thank you so much for being here, my friend. i want to get right to the question of the hostages. there is been a lot of reporting on how this deal kind of came together. but buried in that reporting is this reality. and i am quoting from david ignatius reporting in the washington post. though the captains have often been described as being under in tire hamas control, and israeli official told me that of a total of about 100 israeli women and children, including toddlers and babies, hamas had immediate access to only the 50 who will be released. ben, in your eyes, how complicated and how problematic is it if the reality is that hamas only actually knows about and is in control of a fraction of these approximately 250 hostages that are inside gaza? >> yeah, alex, it's tough to think about all the complexity that goes into. this first, of all the negotiations were taking place through qatar, the qatari government. which has hosted hamas political offices in doha. those political leaders then are in touch with hamas leaders on the ground in gaza. and you have a situation where these hostages were taken in a chaotic and awful violent circumstance, where there are other groups operating in addition to hamas, palestinian islamic jihad, apparently took some of these hostages as well. and over the course of the last 45 days, you have had a war zone. you have had a bombardment of gaza. so just think of how complicated it is to identify where these people are, who is holding, them who has the authority to move them. who is in communication up through the hamas train of command to qatar, to the united states. this is a very complicated multifaceted negotiation, and now that there is an agreement in place, and everyone seems committed to following through on this deal, now it is the additional work that has to be done to find these people and to colocate them and to bring them to safety and figure out how to transfer them to israeli custody. so it is not a surprise to me that this might take a couple of days in order to just begin these releases. i think tragically and painfully, but also suggests how hard it is gonna be to continue to find additional hostages to release, assuming you can keep this deal going and go beyond the 50 they're slated to release in the next several. >> days, yes just to that, and then, when you talk about the logistical difficulties. i wonder if there's further complexity between the desires of some of the jihadist groups that may have these hostages. apparently there are just families inside gaza that are holding to some of these hostages. and hamas. would you assume that these groups are effectively standing shoulder to shoulder with whatever hamas is negotiating with the israelis via qatar? or could there be separate demands on their behalf? >> you know, none of us know. i mean, i think we have to start for the premise that nobody knows exactly what is going on here. i would think though, alex, that you have a situation where hamas, with command and control, has a certain number of these hostages. then beyond that, there may be other elements, factions like islamic jihad, that may want to hold onto hostages for their own leverage. or there may even be, there are some reports that they are just criminal elements who just want to hold hostages for ransom. and then it may just be in the chaos of war that some of these hostages are among the population there, trying to find shelter as well. so it is a complicated endeavor. i think what you are trying to do in any diplomacy's test whether the other party can deliver on what they say. it will be an important test of hamas's capacity to deliver on their own commitments, to see if they can follow through on ten hostages a day. and that might at least give you confidence that you have a mechanism set up to try to secure additional relief is going forward. >> yes, to that end, how optimistic are you that this agreement could last beyond the initial four days and 50 hostages? and when i -- as a sort of the addendum to that, i just want to read this excerpt in the new york times that details how difficult it was to get to this point. on november 14th, there's a sense that this detail is gonna come together, netanyahu calls president biden to say that he can accept hamas's offer. but just hours after the call, the idf storms al-shifa hospital in gaza and suddenly communications between hamas and all the other official parties go silent. and one hamas resurfaces hours later, they made clear the deal was off. i mean, israel has been very clear that it would like this were to continue. on the eve of the deal initially, potentially being agreed upon, they go ahead and raid al-shifa hospital. for their strategic and, according to israel. but i just wonder what that indicates to -- israel's appetite to keep a cease-fire going, even if it could mean the release of hostages every day. >> you know, i think it's a really important question, alex. first of all, i want to say something. clearly, as someone who had to deal in government with hostage situations, in difficult circumstances, and none frankly as difficult as gaza, this densely populated area with 2 million people. most of whom are displaced. probably most of whom are homeless right now. the reality is that it's going to be much easier to secure their strafe release through diplomacy, then through military operations. that is just a fact. and so there is like a discordance between the objective of sustaining a ground operation, and this kind of bombardment that we have seen of gaza. trying to secure the safety of these hostages. and i think the u.s. has really been trying to press the israeli government to take into account the fact that it is easier to get the hostages out through negotiation, there was also pressure with the israeli government to put more of a focus between the hostages and the military operation itself. now, for netanyahu we know he attacks. right we also know he has some right-wing members of his own government who really don't want to see this military operation falls. who have much more maximalist objectives in mind in gaza. and they are going to be putting pressure on him to show that the military operation is going to resume. now, i think it will be countervailing pressure, alex. because the world is looking in horror at the same images that you showed today. over 5000 children have been killed, you have a siege mentality. you have, as you pointed out, the capacity for what urban illnesses. if you are not getting water and fuel in, it could lead to many deaths. not through violence, but through those kind of water borne illnesses. so the idea of pausing this for several days, and just picking right up where we were. i think that that is a cause of a significant international blowback. and frankly, from within the united states. some concern about where is this ongoing? >> yeah -- >> i think the best-case scenario see try to stand this policy and get more hostages and you see if you have diplomacy to the escalate the conflict. >> can we just talk really quickly about that diplomacy, the times has a quote from some senior american officials who signal that they would not be disappointed if the pause became a more permanent cease-fire. is that the administration's best route to actually calling for a cease-fire. i mean it is very clear that president biden was intimately involved in these negotiations, according to the new york times he is the one the pressured prime minister netanyahu to take the deal. as it currently stands. does the biden administration not have more leverage here if indeed they actually would not be disappointed in the cease-fire happened? >> i think they do. they have diplomatic leverage in the sense that if they start taking a position that is calling for a cease-fire, calling for de-escalation, that makes it harder for israel to sustain its operations, again, the international pressure that they're facing. i think the other reality, alex, is where is this all going? you think about at the beginning, president biden wrapped his arms around prime minister netanyahu in full solidarity. we know that is where the start is. we know that there is major disagreement between the u.s. and as real about when this and. the israel said that the palestinian authority will take command, control or responsibility for gaza. there are proposals about a air piecing keeping force. now who said, will have to sustain security responsibility and some kind of administrative control over gaza for an open-ended period of time. that is a huge gap. the question is, how long does the military operation go. what is the end goal? is the end goal to have a palestinian government authority in gaza, that people can turn to their homes to be rebuilt. or is the angle the de facto israel occupation? i think the sooner you begin to address this questions, alex, the better, and i think a pause is a good time to address those questions. look, we share your objective of dislodging hamas, but what is happening now is a humanitarian catastrophe that is causing a lot of international tension and, frankly, hamas's political leadership, some of it out of the country, hamas probably blended in with the civilian population, over 1 million people push often gaza. the ability to go one by one and eliminate hamas in that kind of environment is very difficult for a significant loss of life. the administration wants to put forward these questions now about what is the objective? where is this going? how do we minimize civilian casualties, how do we make sure that aid gets in so that this is not become a worse crisis, and how do we address hamas militarily but political strategy that replaces that with some alternative palestinian leadership? >> ben rhodes, asking the questions that we do not yet have answers to. thank, you my friend, for your time and was this evening. >> thanks, alex. >> coming up, the decline and fall, may be, of the desantis campaign, after spending 100 million dollars and falling to fifth place in polling. the game begins a desantis ruled. but first, trump talks and talk some more. today, we kind of day on the sheer number of threats unleashed on the subjects of donald trump's verbal tax. we'll have more on that next. l tax. we'll have more on that next >> (pensive music) (footsteps crunching) (pensive music) (birds tweeting) (pensive music) (broom sweeping) - [narrator] one in five children worldwide are faced with the reality of living without food. no family dinners, no special treats, no full bellies. all around the world, parents are struggling to feed their children. toddlers are suffering from acute malnutrition, which stunts their growth. kids are forced to drop out of school so they can help support their families. covid, conflict, inflation and climate have ignited the worst famine in our lifetime. and we're fed up. fed up with the fact that hunger robs children of their childhood. fed up with the lack of progress. fed up with the injustice. help us brighten the lives of children all over the world by visiting getfedupnow.org. for as little as $10 a month, you can join save the children as we support children and families in desperate need of our help. now is the time to get fed up and give back. when you join the cause, your $10 monthly donation can help communities in need of life-saving treatments and nutrients, prevent children from dropping out of school. support our work with communities and governments to help children go from short-term surviving to long-term thriving. and now thanks to special government grants, every dollar you give before december 31st can multiply up to 10 times the impact. that means more food, water, medicine and help for kids around the world. you'll also receive a free tote bag to share your support for children in need. childhood without food is unimaginable. get fed up. call us now or visit getfedupnow.org today. at bombas, we're obsessed with comfort. quality. movement. because your basic things should be your best things. one purchased equals one donated. visit bombas.com and shop our big holiday sale. [upbeat music] ♪♪ ♪♪ new pork carnitas. only at el pollo loco. the power goes out and we still have wifi to do our homework. and that's a good thing? great in my book! who are you? no power? no problem. introducing storm-ready wifi. now you can stay reliably connected through power outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery back-up to keep you online. only from xfinity. home of the xfinity 10g network. >> while you are out today (♪♪) (♪♪) the new festive family meal. starting at $24. now celebrating at el pollo loco. grabbing a last-minute bag of person cranberries, donald trump was lashing out at the judges across his new york and d.c. cases, ranting about the crooked and bias prosecutors working closely with my political opponent. trump is currently free to say whatever he wants, at least for now, about judge arthur engoron and escorts enough in trump's twitter 50 million dollar civil fraud case. that is happening while an appeals court decides whether to invoke judge engoron's gag order. these things could soon change or data. trump today, an attorney for judge engoron argued in support of the gag order, saying that the alarming increase in threats against the judge and its clerk since the gag order was temporarily lifted. since trump posted a picture at the judges clerk last month online, she has received 20 to 30 calls a day on her personal cell phone, and 30 to 50 daily messages on her personal email and social media accounts. in today's filing, the attorney said that hundreds of threatening and harassing voice mail messages feels more than 275 single spaced pages. roughly half of those messages, the filing states, has been antisemitic. in a meanwhile, we continue to await d.c. circuit of appeals, which is expected to oppose a narrow gap order, limiting what trump consent before his federal election interference trial in d.c.. joining me now is josh christie, senior legal affairs reporter for politico and christie greenwood, former criminal division deputy chief for the southern district of new york, thank you both for being here. kristie, the evidence that the attorney for the court presented today is staggering, and there is no mistaking the catalyst for these hate filled voicemails, messages, whatever. it's when donald trump post pictures and messages about this judge and his clerk. how does the appeals process bounce, yes, trump's first amendment rights, but obviously, the security concerns that are on the table here. >> the judge has to. the judge has to look at this imbalance. you don't have, particularly as a defendant under a civil case, as it is embarked or in a criminal case, as he had in d.c. and florida, you don't have an unfettered right to say whatever you want to say, or in a court proceeding. there are countervailing interests here, in particular, the safety of the people that are involved. when you look at some of these messages, just looking at the sampling that were in their, they are vial. the message is against the clerk were wishing for her death randomized. they are sickening. the worst part about it is, in the affidavit that was put in, the department of public safety, so these are the police that are hoping the court administrators, said that they found these were credible violent threats. they researched and looked into it, they substantiated. they found that they were credible, so they got the fbi involved and homeland security involved to make sure that their security measures in place to protect them. but every time they found when donald trump opened his mouth and threatened and attacked these people, the threats one up. so, enough is enough already. there has to be a gag order that has teeth, that will in force and shut him up and stop it. this is completely unacceptable. >> i would also say, donald trump himself could stop doing it to. there are not a lot of former presidents and the club of people who willingly put out messages that foment violence against innocent civilians. i digress. josh, we are waiting for the d.c. circuit court of appeals to decide whether to revoke judge chutkan's gag order down in d.c.. in new york earlier this week, this panel is likely not the final word. the losing side may appeal the panel's decision to the full bunch of appeals or the supreme court. judge chutkan has been adamant about keeping this trial on track. and yeah, how optimistic are you that she will be able to, given the fact that this could be an opportunity for further delays? >> i think the gag order is just a small part of the maneuverings that could happen and advance the march 4th trial date. it may end up at the supreme court. i think though, alex, if there is a snack decides to delay the trial, it's more likely to be around some of the very broad claims, in fact, the claims of absolute immunity that the former president trump has put forward in the case, basically saying that he cannot be prosecuted for these events, because they involve things that took place while he was president. we expect judge chutkan to deny the emotions that he's already brought on those grounds. those that could see definitely going to the supreme court, and those are the ones that i think if we derail the trial, it will be coming to that particular direction. >> we know that trump has filed an appeal disappoint business ads to dismiss the case for selective and vindictive prosecution tonight. am i wrong when i believe that this is the sort of throw everything at the wall and see what sticks, delay strategy? >> it is. i think this was clearly expected based on all of his rhetoric, based on what his lawyers are saying. it's not surprising that he is making this kind of motion, because, again, for him, it's always that he's the victim, even though he's the one, as we know from everything that he is saying, that is actually putting other people in danger and risk for their own safety. it's always that people are continually attacking him, so, again, i don't think that this will have much to it, there is ample evidence in the d.c. indictment, that speaking indictment, ample evidence of there being probable cause that they had a worthy case to bring. so, this would be summarily dismissed. >> for that, there are some things that judges can control and some things that they can. the tele-core is one thing, the supreme court is another. i guess you can imagine, you're sitting here on thanksgiving, effectively, as you point out, the chechen capes is going to trial on march 4th, and then there is judge cannon down in florida, seems to have not said forthrightly, i'd like to delay the case. but in your writing this week, you point out that candidates are aware of the discussion about her and some borders. that allowed her to conclude that she does not know if the trial will start in may but sees no reason at the moment to ignite a firestorm should face if he puts it off. there is at this point, no real reason to believe that this trial is going to happen, this effort to say, josh? >> that is what all that legal experts i talked to said, including the ones that have handled cases involving classified information, criminal prosecutions. they think that what judge cannon is up to hear, the lawyer sometimes called taking a position, sub -- in latin, meaning that you don't come right out and say, it but it's effectively what you're doing, if you slide all the deadlines by, in some cases, as long as two months, even though you don't say we're putting off the trial date, you're putting it off. part of the issue here, alex, is that it's not as simple as an ordinary case, maybe delayed a week or two. you look at what a delay of more than a week or so, and what that trial date would mean, would mean that the child would collide, for example, with the republican national convention. or it could slip into august or september, which really is the heart or the general election campaign, if we assume that, former president trump is going to be the republican nominee. a lot of people think that if the trial does not get underway by the end of may or beginning of june, perhaps at the latest, it's realistically only going to have to happen after the election, and that means it might not happen at all. >> adding more stakes, as if we needed them, through the presidential election on november 20 24th. josh christie and kristy greenberg, thank you both for your time tonight, i appreciate it. we have more ahead this evening. chief justice john roberts and his long battle against voting rights act, what it tells us about the future of voting rights and the case is coming up for the high court. but, first, what do you get when you pour 100 million dollars into rhonda scent this is bid for the presidency? 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[steve] we met online about 10 years ago. as i got older, my hearing was not so good so i got hearing aids. my vision was not as good as it used to be, got a change in prescription. but the this missing was my memory. i saw a prevagen commercial and i thought, "that makes sense." i just didn't have to work so hard to remember things. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. ♪ the winter play was really coming together. ♪ until... disaster struck. ♪ tensions... were high. ♪ luckily, replacement costumes were shipped with fedex. which means mr. harvey... could picture the perfect night. ♪ we're delivering more happy for the holidays. ♪ at bombas we make the comfiest socks, underwear, and t-shirts that feel good and most of all do good. because when you purchase one, we donate one to those in need. visit bombas.com and shop our big holiday sale. bombas. give the good. >> we know her as crooked hillary, but nikki haley, she's her role model. the reason she ran for office -- >> i often say the reason i got into politics often because of hillary clinton. >> she's a big inspiration for you in terms of a leader. >> she's actually the reason i made the jump. >> that's an ad front that newly formed super pac, fight right, which is taking aim at former south carolina governor nikki haley on behalf of another republican presidential candidate, florida governor ron desantis. fight right was formed only in the last week, amid the, shall we say, the confidence in another pro desantis super pac, never back down, whose attacks against governor haley have largely backfired. never back down spent a staggering $100 million in the past nine months alone in support of the desantis candidacy, which is something, when you consider the polling that shows a florida governor ranked fifth in new hampshire. nbc news got an inside look at the hand wringing and finger-pointing inside to send this land. i'm a bit agitated these guys have spent all this money for no return, one desantis contributor said. you don't just keep throwing money at radio shack. joining me now is mark gingrich, staff writer for the atlantic. mark, you all of the dissent this problems before anyone was wear them. wonder what you make of this, shall we say, the circular firing squad that seems to have developed among his big dollar donors. do you think the never back down problem is that the ads are bad, or that people generally are choosing nikki haley around desantis? >> i would say generally, the never back down fiasco that seems to be happening in realtime, is the distraction from the somewhat fiasco campaign from rhonda scent is himself, 8 to 10 months. this is kind of one crisis on top of another crisis. the honor here is, first of all, never back down. eventually, the super pac may have to back down. look, this is a campaign that has been basically a disaster for the last year. i think nikki haley has been a beneficiary at. i also think nikki haley is a beneficiary of running the best race in the republican field. the problem that each of them have, unfortunately, is each other. the math problem is that they ultimately have to beat donald trump. while they are fighting each other, and donald trump will love to see the two of them go after each other like this. he's obviously the winner here. >> do you think, though and i say this with a grain of salt, fistful of soul, but the candidates that ran that maybe learned the lessons of 2016, which is don't stay in the race longer than your factually welcomed. you have seen some, shall we say, exfoliation of folks like tim scott, the folks that were effectively taking votes away from the anti trump, the eventual anti trump candidate, whoever who she or she may be. >> right. >> do you think that there is an awareness inside the field that things need to be different this time, and the way -- the lessons learned? >> i would say a couple of things. one, mike pence, tim scott were basically fringe figures, if you look at what they were drawing percentage wise, the money they were racing and so forth. there would be no threats by the time anyone got a. i don't know if they selflessly said, okay, we must get solidate the field in order to stop -- there is no indication that either of them or take it that way. they're just responding to their own ineptitude. the problem with the people who are left, especially when you look at desantis, haley, kristie, maybe vivek, if we look at him to. these are big ego personalities that don't strike and ban together and consolidate their effort for the go to the party, for the good of stopping trump. they all have their own, their own insurance. they have their own loyalty to trump himself. it does not sound like desantis is the kind of guy that spent all this money, spent all this time, i am going to bow to nikki haley now, and let her carry the torch and air it out. to what and, that they should not just, really from the spot in doing that. and vice versa. again, i hope that the problem -- that is the degree of benefit donald trump. >> your point about the egos involved here is well taken, given the nbc news reporting of what is happening among the heads of these very super pacs. our day expert. you have a stick up your bleep, scott, set geoff roe, fuming at the never back down board. why don't you come over here and get it, wagner responded, no relation, rising from his chair. he was quickly restrained by two fellow board members. we saw marc wayne almost come to fisticuffs in the senate, because a union leader last week. we now see republican super pac heads, threatening violence on one another. how reflective is this of the broader republican party, and to your earlier point, what does it indicate about anybody being able to be the adult in the room, as a concern scuttling the candidacy of donald trump? >> the industry has seen better days in the republican party. i do think that because the quality of a trash talk within the republican ranks, even the kevin mccarthy, tim burgeoned thing. someone asked mccarthy if he about him in the kidneys. he said, if i hit him in the kidneys, he would not have known. whatever it was, then they really need to up their trash talk game within the largest farce we're talking about here. ultimately, i think this is emblematic to some degree. it's not a serious party right now, but it is also quintessentially trumpian and quintessentially of the spirit and chaos and childish nice that they brought to dance in 2016, which has been the identity of the party. it's been the dominant force for much of america for the last five, six, seven years. here we are. >> here we are. i'll just recall what you wrote in november of 2022. my sense is that trump would gut dissent this with a dole deer antler, according to one and decider defeat by -- one of my favorite reporters out there. thank you for joining me, good to see you. >> thanks, alex, happy thanksgiving. >> you too. coming up, the voting rights act to sign other setback to speak from an appeals court in a decision that could soon find its way to the supreme court. what will john roberts and his justices do next? 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[dog barks] no it's just a bunny! only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ >> president reagan today signed a 25 year extension to the 1965 voting rights act, which originally favored only a ten-year expansion, he came late to endorse this version but had nothing but praise for it today. >> the right to vote is the crown jewel of american liberties, and we will not see it diminished. >> the >> bill signing ceremony moved indoors because of the threat of rain, witnessed by some of the presidents various critics, black civil rights leaders and democratic senator kennedy. >> in 1982, president ronald reagan signed the third extension of the 1965 voting rights act. he signed it reluctantly, because this 25 year extension, amid an amendment to section two of the voting rights act, vr a, which prohibits discriminatory practices. and the reagan administration really did not want to sign that. the amendment assured that victims of discriminatory voting laws would not have to prove that the laws were intentionally designed to be discriminatory. it just had to prove that they were discriminated against. that was the effect of the law. now, this issue had been litigated for years, even in the supreme court, which ruled in 1980 that with exceptions, the vr a only forbade intentional discrimination. after that 1980 ruling, an attorney for the black folks in question, called the decision to pick a step backwards in civil rights to come from the nixon world. that is why the amendment reagan signed and the summer of 1982 was so important. it kept a country from taking a giant step backwards. that is why civil rights are pickets lobbied so hard in favor of it, and his wife, presumably, the reagan administration lobbied equally hard against it, with the help of a young lawyer named john roberts. for months before reagan signed that bill, roberts, then a special assistant to the attorney general, chatted a series of memos detailing why no amendment should be added to section two of the vr. a they argued that section two should be kept away it was, only prohibiting intentional discrimination and not just discrimination roberts argued that violating the voting rights act should not be made too easy to prove, since they ride a basis for the most intrusive, interference imaginable, federal courts and two state processes. roberts added that revise imparted the vr i would not only be constitutionally suspect, but also contradicted the most fundamental tenants of the legislative process, in which the laws of this country are based. john roberts lost the argument in 1982. congress passed it and president reagan signed the updated voting rights act. but that was just the beginning of john roberts work against the vr. a. as the supreme court chief justice, roberts would get more opportunities to cut the law, starting with section five of the bri, designed to monitor states with a history of racial discrimination. >> the courts conservatives today filed through on day threat they made four years ago the shark at the heart of the voting rights act that lets congress updated. they ruling deals a crippling and potential fatal blow to the law signed by president johnson in 1965, in response to widespread efforts in the south to prevent blacks from voting. >> and very soon, the supreme court could have another chance to erode voting rights protections. on monday, a federal appeals court panel ruled that section two at the vr a does not allow private plaintiffs to bring lawsuits, contrary to the way that law has worked up until now, this appeals court now says only the federal government can bring lawsuits alleging violations of the voting rights act, cases almost certain to reach the supreme court, and when it does, justice roberts and the other conservatives on the court could continue to campaign to hollow out one of the most important antidiscrimination laws in the country. i'll talk to the atlantic's adam serwer about all of this coming up next. p next do you own a lot of bras, but not a single one you really love? it's time you got into a wireless bra from knix. the ultimate in comfort and support, in sizes up to a g-cup. visit knix.com to find a wireless bra you'll love. mr. clean magic eraser powers through tough messes. so it makes it look like i spent hours cleaning, and you know i didn't. it makes my running shoe look like new! it's amazing. it's so good. it makes it look like i have magical powers. magic eraser and sheets make cleaning look easy. you want to be able to provide your child it makes it look like i have magical powers. with the tools or resources they need. with reliable internet at home, through the internet essentials program, the world opened up. fellas, fellas. that's how my son was able to find the hidden genius project. we wanted to give y'all the necessary skills to compete with the future. kevin's now part of this next generation of young people who feel they can thrive. ♪ ♪ >> on monday, a federal appeals court panel ruled that section two of the voting rights act does not allow private citizens or civil rights group to challenge racial discrimination in voting. the ruling stands the four there are a deprotections at the vr a and the conservative supreme court is expected to weigh in. the atlanta ex adam serwer is calling this a decision that can and voting rights. the constitution is supposed to forbid such discrimination, but that sounds simpler than it is. in practice, if you have enough judges or justices willing to find unconstitutional, the laws adopted to enforce that right or willing to rule in such a way that nullifies at the ability of the loss to function, you can simply render the 15th amendment granting bakhmut the right to vote, you could render that useless. joining me now is adam serwer, staff writer at the atlantic. adam, thank you for being here tonight. your piece is so essential in this moment, you draw a sort of through line to mean that the justices at the supreme court and what you call the twilight of supreme reconstruction in the twilight of -- i wonder if you can elaborate on that for the folks that have not ready piece? >> the 15th amendment was adopted during reconstruction, and what happened is that it ceased to be enforced. the supreme court at the time, simply allowed it to be nullified by the southern states, which wanted to impose a jim crow regime on black people in the south. it required a second reconstruction to make the rights guaranteed by the 15th amendment real rights. what happened in the decades followed is that people like john roberts, decided that racism was over, that racial discrimination and voting is not a serious problem anymore, and that the bigger problem was that he put it, as a young attorney in the justice department, this interference with the rights of the states to limit voting, as they see feet, even if that a bridge is the rights for black people to vote. that really is the problem here. the question is, whether he still has the sort of naivete, even now, after alabama openly defied the supreme court ruling in this past years, because they wanted to prevent, dilute the votes of black citizens of alabama. the question is one of the key justice brett kavanaugh, who told alabama that to follow the supreme court's ruling, and draw a second black history, i am aware that black voters were able to reflect the representative of their choice. the question is whether they are committed to this idea of unraveling these laws to protect the right to vote, whether it's a question of naivete, whether they have been shown how serious the problem continues to be. therefore, understand now why the protections were adopted in the first place. when they are so bent on helping the republican party disenfranchise their constituents that they'll allow this to go forward. >> adam, to that and, you assigned, i would say, not the best of mothers in terms of the supreme court's ruling on the alabama case. -- the mulligan. can you talk about how you understand it was important to, rule and white think they voted effectively in support of black voters in that case? >> there are two cases that were talked about. there was the initial case, in which they upheld the section to challenge. that alabama was required to draw a second black district, because a large portion of the states population was black, and they only had one majority black district, but the real issue, in terms of motive, i think it's interesting the kavanaugh and roberts withheld a law and a case. but the second time around, alabama basically said, assumed that the court's majority republican appointees, so we're going to do what they want, and they're going to let us do it. what the court said was, no, will uphold the law because to allow you to simply to file a ruling like that, would undermine our power over the supreme court justices. if you say that the supreme court, the supreme court rulings are the law of the land, and allow people to defy those rulings, it's not just going to be alabama defiant. it's going to be other actors, who don't like the outcome of certain cases. and that case, a decision, i believe will be unanimous, in terms of telling alabama the second time to go back and draw that district. that was a dark challenge t

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