this kind of extreme measure. >> let's not forget our shared humanity and our share faiths. right. that's part of the american contract. it's great to get your perspective on this very difficult issue. s that the show for tonight. now we go to alex warren. >> we're going to be joined by a former clerk of samuel alito who says justice alito should recuse himself from the trump cases. that former clerk is going to join us to make his case. >> i am looking forward to hear that clerk's story on something i agree with. the breaking defendant trump news of the night is that donald trump has to give up his guns. donald trump who has had bodyguards for many many years before he had secret service protection, never had any rational reason to carry or even possess a firearm but like many people, who hope that a handgun might make them feel, i don't know, more like a man. donald trump owns three handguns. and he obtained a license to carry a concealed handgun. a license that the new york police department now wants to revoke. under the headline nypd moves to revoke trump's license to carry a gun. the new york times is reporting quote, the police department is seeking to revoke former president donald j. trump's license to carry a concealed weapon after his conviction. mr. trump had a conceal carry permit in new york and had three pistols registered under the permit, the people said. two of them were turned over to the police department's license division around the time mr. trump was charged in april 2023 with 34 counts of falsifying business records according to the people with knowledge of the matter. the third pistol had already been transferred to florida. it is unclear if it is under mr. trump's possession. under federal law and state law in new york, and florida, people with felony convictions are barred from possessing a firearm. so now that donald trump is a convicted felon, not only will he lose his license to carry a concealed firearm, it is now illegal for him to possess the handguns that he never had any rational reason to possess. even though donald trump doesn't need those guns and never used them, losing his license will feel like a man losing his possession of something important to him. it will feel like he lost all of that, thanks to the unanimous verdict of 12 new yorkers. and that will be a form of torture for donald trump. donald trump is used to having no one telling him what to do. but he is finding out that a lot of people can tell a convicted felon what to do including judges and probation officers and the nypds gun license division. a manhattan district attorney filed a response today to donald trump's lawyers requests to lift the gag order imposed on donald trump by judge marchand which prevents donald trump from commenting about witnesses and jurors in the manhattan case where he was found guilty. donald trump's attorneys told judge marchand, now that the court is concluded, does not justified continued restrictions on the first amendment rights of president trump. prosecutor matthew coangelo told the judge in writing that the judge has quote an obligation to prevent actual harm to the integrity of the proceedings of this court and to the administration of justice. these interests have not abated. and the court has an obligation to protect the integrity of these proceedings and the fair administration of justice at least through the sentencing, hearing and the resolution of any post-trial motions. and today in florida, donald trump's favorite judge mercedez cannon. federal judge appointed by donald trump scheduled three days of hearings in the criminal case where donald trump is accused of violations of the espionage act and illegal possession of documentless. those hearings are scheduled for june 21st, june 24th and june 25th. one of the defense arguments that judge cannon will consider in those hearings is that jack smith's appointment as a special counsel is unconstitutional and therefor the case should be dismissed. the judge will also consider the prosecution's motion to change donald trump's conditions of release to ineffect imposing gag order on donald trump that prevents him from making false statements that quote pose a significant imminent and foreseeable danger to law enforcement agents proceeding in the prosecution of this case. the governor's request is necessary because of several false inflammatory statements recently made by trump that distort the circumstances under which the federal bureau of investigation planned and executed the search warrant at mar-a-lago. president trump has been lying and raising money on the lie that the fbi was quote authorized to shoot me. when the fbi executed a search warrant at donald trump's residence in florida. when they knew donald trump is never there and specifically was not there. the prosecutors told the judge that donald trump has been spreading quote a grossly misleading impression about the intentions and conduct of federal law enforcement agents falsely suggesting that they were complicit in a plot to assassinate him and expose those agents some of whom will be witnesses at trial to the risk of threats, violence, and harassment. in another issue to be considered in those hearings later this month, is the defense claim that prosecutors improperly pierced donald trump's attorney client relationship by compelling the testimony of one of donald trump's criminal defense jurors that indicted donald trump in the classified documents case. and andrew wiseman former fbi general council and former chief of the criminal division, the eastern district of new york. he is an msnbc legal analyst and coauthor of the trump indictments. i would like to begin tonight quickly because we need to get to florida quickly. with the gag order issue in manhattan, the trial is over. the trump lawyers say, no need for gag order to protect witnesses or protect the integrity of a trial that is over. the district attorney says, not so fast, there is still an integrity of the proceedings that need to be protected and certainly, the jury continues to need to be protected. what do you expect judge marchand to find in these pleadings? >> well i think he's going to acquire sort of additional briefing and the state has said that they will propose some modification as you elude to lawrence with respect to potentially witnesses. but just so you know, this is one where, you cannot possibly think, as you tell witnesses and jurors, don't worry we're going to protect you so long as the proceeding goes on. but as soon as you render a verdict your name will be out there and you may be attacked. that is nutty that you don't think there's going to be continued election. because you're worried about the next witnesses and the next jurors. so i think this definitely will be continued in some form particularly with respect to the jurors. >> adam, jurors certainly must continue to be protected. and it seems the real question is, how much protection does michael cohen get at this point? he's a public figure. how much protection does stormy daniels gets. there are other witnesses paralegals, technical witnesses who appeared in this case, appeared for the prosecution. who it seems to me should still get some protection from donald trump. >> and i think you're absolute little right about that lawrence. it was very clear, that judge marchand looked at people like michael cohen, stormy daniels a little bit differently. they're in the arena. they were making statements, he was carefully weighing that as the trial was going on. but you're right, this is, this trial casts a much broader net. i want to take a look back at all the legalities and look at how extraordinary it is. trump facing sentences with a real threat of imprisonment next month. his first order of business is give me latitude to attack people. rescind the gag order so that i don't know specifically from his request whether he wants to go after the daughter of the man who can send him to prison. just the extraordinary nature of this request at this time when he is facing a very real threat of imprisonment. >> that's such a great point, because this is the point where you're trying desperately not to antagonize your judge in any way who has the discretion involving your sentence. andrew, to florida and judge cannon's announcement today about the series of hearings. i guess the way to begin with her is, which one is the most unusual? >> i think the most unusual and most serious and the one that calls into question her objectivity and fitness for being on the bench is that she is being, she has an application by the government. whatever the merits of it are, the application is that, you need to restrict what donald trump can say when he's talking falsely about law enforcement because the state is saying, it poses a real threat to law enforcement. the fact that the judge is not hearing that for weeks and weeks with no restrictions, is so cavalier with respect to the safety of those potential witnesses. i mean, even if you're going to rule against the government eventually. you would want to hear that quickly and not be like, oh, this is just like asking for a bill of particulars. or some something that's not of any import. the idea that you would say this is the first order of business and i want to hear from the parties is really shocking in terms of what it means. in terms of her sentence of a responsibility to the public to hear this in a timely way. that would to me be the number one thing that i would take her to task with. >> and adam, one of the other things that i've never seen at the trial court level. at the district court level is she is inviting other so called experts to come in and argue these points about the constitutionality. of jack smith's appointment. you see amicus briefs accepted by the supreme court. i have never seen, this is beyond amicus briefs. this is saying you can stand up in my courtroom and argue this. >> absolutely. and the, i've been covering the courts for 15 years and including federal courts, local district courts. this isn't something that i have seen. and when trying to quantify just how unusual is this, you know. i found this really helpful legal brief by one of the amicus parties i wanted to respond to trump's emogi. they actually sited. and between 1980 and 2015, the supreme court permitted an amicus to participate in 1,003 of 4,043 oral arguments. most of the time, 103 of those arguments, 877 were on behalf of the united states from the office of the solicitor general. it doesn't come from random third parties. of those remaining 126 amicus arguments, 117 are on behalf of federal agencies, state agencies, local government entities, people like that. so we do all this math here. only nine out of 4,045. .2% of oral arguments before a supreme court involved a random third party. of the kind we're going to hear at this hearing later this month. and those, and to your point lawrence, those are the cases that have the weight grandeur and gravity to make it to the supreme court. not to a court in the coastal florida, in a small courtroom that has to rows of seats. >> andrew, what about this one? two of us have never seen this at a district court level. >> we have a sound problem with andrews. i don't think we have andrews. >> sorry, is this better. >> yes, we have you now. >> sorry, about that. i actually have been allowed to argue at a district court level. so i think the exception that proves the rule. but there's no question that as adam points out this is very rare. but i think the main issue here is even if you're going to allow these partisan groups on either side to argue, this is such a frivolous argument. and i find it, we obviously litigated this in the special council muller investigation. we have judges who are republicans and democrats appointed including one appointed by donald trump who all ruled that it was totally proper for the department of justice to have special counsels. i would note that while they're challenging the appointment of jack smith as a special counsel. there's been no challenge to the special counsel's for joseph biden, or rob hur and i would note that judge cannon by putting this off until the 21st and 24th is basically making any of those potential challenges moot. because it will be after the hunter biden case is gone. has been finished and it's certainly after the joseph biden special council investigation is over. even in the way she's handled this. she is not sort of making sure that her ruling would apply equally to other special councils in terms of the timing. but it's also just a really frivolous argument. >> thank you both very much for starting off our discussions tonight. come coming up a former clerk for supreme court justice samuel alito now says that he should recuse himself from the trump cases. that former clerk will join us next. i love that my daughter still needs me. 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