we have talked at length on this program about project 2025, the heritage foundation's nightmarish plan to transform the nation into a trump dystopia. the 900 page project would provide trump a maga blueprint for a potential second term. yesterday, my colleagues had the chance to actually sit down with kevin roberts, president of the heritage foundation, and the top architect for press operation 2025. here's how that interview began. >> you reject the assertion that this is a plan that was cooked up specifically for the second coming of the trump administration? >> we couldn't do that, because we are nonpartisan. i would have been thrilled if president biden and his team asked for a briefing. >> setting aside the laughable claim that the conservative think tank would have been thrilled to work with joe biden, route the interview, roberts laid out a series of talking points that made him sound indistinguishable from donald trump. like, say, wanting to remove state department employees and replacing with maga loyalists . >> we are going to fire someone, and the number needs to be more than 50,000, considering they are more than 2 million federal employees. it's time they are put in the driver seat. >> we will clean out all of the corrupt actors in our national security and intelligence apparatus, and there are plenty of them. >> there is, of course, his demonization of immigrants. >> were going to have the biggest mass deportation system in america ever. >> we will begin the largest deportation operation in american history. >> you are going to go and start a new migrant fight league. only migrants. >> and other was abortion. >> way we talking about -- >> i just want to know. >> there's legislation that allows abortion happened three days before they are born. >> they have legislation that can execute the baby after birth. it is crazy. >> there is no truth to that whatsoever. we should call it out for what it is. both have refused to commit to accepting the results of the election regardless of who wins. >> is your organization going to accept the results of the 2024 election? >> yes, if there is a massive fraud like in 2020. >> will you commit tonight to accepting the results of the election? >> if it's an honest election, i would. >> most revealing part of that interview is roberts long plans for trump. >> the work of the heritage foundation was to institutionalize trumpism. it's a new version of conservativism. whether someone likes it or not, i happen to like it. >> just hours after that interview, trump give a crowd of supporters in d.c. a preview about what roberts was talking about. >> in four years, you don't have to vote, okay? in four years, don't vote. i don't care. but we will have it all straightened out, so it will be much different. >> in four years, you don't have to vote. that is the so-called institutionalize trumpism roberts is talking about. providing the gop a blueprint for ending democracy in this country. the heritage foundation can claim that they are not tied to any candidate, but they have found the avatar for their dark and dangerous vision for america, and it is donald j trump. iona presley is a founding member of a task force designed to stop project 2025. she joins me now. it's great to see you again. let's start with your work on this task force. called project 2025 a, quote, far right manifesto. walk us through what you and your colleagues are actively doing to fight back against this dangerous plan. >> it is a frightening blueprint . it is a policy plan. it's really a transition plan. with these dangerous extremist, with a proven time and time again is that they do not make threats. they make promises. we have to do everything to stop project 2025 from becoming a reality, because it will ostensibly dismantle the federal government as we know it. it will eliminate the department of education. will continue this march towards a national ban on abortion, so banning bodies. a nation of forced birth. banning books, banning language. the word abortion. diversity, equity, and inclusion. defunding title i. critical title i funding for k-12 schools. and of course, massive firings of dedicated civil servants and replacing them with trump loyalists. when i say this is a transition plan, this is a transition plan. they already have online portals established to test the loyalties of people so they can replace dedicated public servants with trump loyalists. and also, i have to just call out the fact that the heritage foundation -- they are saying the quiet part out loud. they deny that abortion is healthcare, one thing they cannot deny is the harm that they intend to cause. they always telegraphed their harm. and so this task force will be joining the work of spreading awareness. we will be hosting briefings, we will be hosting hearings. i think it's really critical that we have congressional oversight and accountability here, the congress is leveraging every tool available. i also want to talk about, although this extreme blueprint mostly implicates federal agencies, it also implicates the courts. again, the supreme court, which is far right, imbalanced, engaging in impropriety often, and with the same mega-donors who bankrolled this heritage foundation, project 2025 blueprint, it's the same donors doing the work of influencing judges like clarence thomas and alito, and they want to also grow the bench and see more justices just like them. project 2025 cannot happen unless donald trump is elected, and unless the supreme court are enlisted to make real this right-wing blueprint, this policy and transition plan, which is really reminiscent of mccarthyism, fascism, and -- again, it is incredibly frightening. people should be afraid, but they need to lean in, pay attention, and we are going to shine a light. light is the best disinfectant. >> he recently talked about the link on project 2025 and the scandals as you were just alluding to there. but i want to get your reaction to senator lindsey graham slamming the idea of a code of ethics for the highest court. take a look at this. >> the worst thing that could happen is for the united states senate and the house to determine what cases the supreme court hears. it was a constitutional overreach. they are trying to micromanage the roberts court. >> you talked about the importance of the presidential election, we should not lose sight of how important congress is, and control of congress comes this november as well. i mean, is it dangerous to lose sight of the battle for congress when you have people like senator lindsey graham rejecting any oversight from congress so that it can help implement something like in project 2025 and trumpism? >> the race is incredibly important, because what we see are -- is a coordinated, unrelenting extremist agenda where people have been enlisted from state legislatures to congress, all the way to the supreme court, which has repeatedly ruled against the will of the majority of the people. they have been legislating from the bench. so we need a strict code of ethics. in my opinion, we also need term limits. we need to expand the bench, and we need to be a thorough and investigative whether there's been any impropriety. >> there is a source that tells nbc news the former president trump will likely not attend the classified documents hearings on monday or tuesday. given how much eileen cannon, the judge in that case, has been stonewalling or slow rolling the case, and then you hear somebody like roger's own, who has insinuated that eileen cannon is in trump's prop pocket. how concerned are you about the rise of people like eileen cannon and other potential judges that trump appointed, doing business on trump's behalf and delaying justice for the sake of political expediency, perhaps? >> very concerned. and it is just simply more of the same. have enlisted the courts to operate with the absence of justice as co-conspirators and active accomplices in this far right extremist agenda. >> congresswoman, please stick around. next, we are going to talk about a very important house race in new york that is officially the most expensive in history tanks to an influx of pro-israel cash. pro-israel listen. horsepower keeps you going, but torque gets you going. ♪ ♪ [ engine revving ] oh now we're torquin'! the dodge hornet r/t. the totally torqued-out crossover. 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(inaudible sounds) (elevator doors opening) wait, there's an elevator? only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, ♪ ♪ liberty. ♪ i don't know how long it's been there. long enough to produce eggs, it seems. it would appear that it has begun moving towards us! visionworks. see the difference. ♪ i wanna hold you forever ♪ hey little bear bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ i'm gonna love you forever ♪ ♪ ♪ c'mon, bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ you don't...you don't have to worry... ♪ ♪ be by your side... i'll be there... ♪ ♪ with my arms wrapped around... ♪ our right to reproductive health care is being stolen from us. i can't believe this is the world we live in, where we're losing the freedom to control our own bodies. we need your support now more than ever. go online, call, or scan this code, with your $19 monthly gift. and we'll send you this "care. no matter what" t-shirt. it is your right to have safe health care. that's it. go online, call, or scan right now. >> this tuesday, the most expensive primary race in u.s. history will be decided in new york's 16th congressional district. lyrical action groups funded by political mega-donors are joining forces to unseat incumbent democratic representative jamaal bowman. only they are not backing a republican candidate to do so. they are in fact backing a democratic county executive named george latimer. why, you might ask? this headline helps explain it simply. the american public affairs committee unleashes a record $14.5 million to defeat a critic of israel. amazingly, as a time points out, they almost never mention israel. instead, the ads paint congressman bowman of a disloyal congressman to president biden. they also accuse bowman of generating, quote, controversy, chaos, and conspiracy. they called latimer a good progressive pro-israel candidate and said bowman refuses to support israel and what they call, quote, a just war. now, why would a right-wing pro- israel political action committee spend so much money on a race, but avoid mentioning israel in their advertising if that's what they care about? well, polling in the district shows that a plurality of democratic voters prefer a candidate who does in fact support a cease-fire, which is bowman's position. the poll also shows that 50% of democratic voters believe the u.s. is giving too much aid for israel and a plurality believe the u.s. is giving too little humanitarian relief to the palestinians. the irony here is that bowman did not come to congress focusing on support for palestinians or even criticism of israel. in the past, he has voted in favor of israel, such as a bill for funding israel's iron dome. as politico reported this week, it was a trip sponsored by j street that opened bowman's eyes to the reality of israel's military occupation. it was a trip that bowman called a transformational moment. that evolution has now led to an unprecedented spending barrage i outside political groups and donors, some of whom are backers of donald trump, looking to make an example out of bowman for simply criticizing israel. it's also how former trump opponent hillary clinton joined forces with many trump donors by endorsing george latimer's bid to unseat him. while we rightfully worry about the fate of our democracy, should donald trump win this fall's election, we also need to be clear about the sorry state of our democracy right now. what does it say about our political system when republican mega-donors, hillary clinton, and big crypto donors can join forces and cobble together $15 million to oust a former middle school principal from congress for calling for a cease-fire in gaza, a position that a plurality of his constituents actually agree with and want. back with me again is congresswoman presley and fellow supporter of jamaal bowman's campaign. thank you for sticking around for us. obviously as i just said, we are concerned about the state of our democracy should donald trump win the outcome this fall. what does the race tell us about the state of our democracy right now? >> i am just so glad to be here in new york. i have been in the new york's 16th all day today. i was in faith houses earlier today, i was in small businesses, and it was just -- i am very encouraged by the number of people i met to understand what is at stake in this election in the new york's 16th. they see jamaal bowman for exactly who he is, and that is someone who leads with love, who centers the people of the new york's 16th, who recognizes that our destinies are tied, from massachusetts to new york to gaza to haiti. he sees every child as his own. there are freedoms and our destinies are tied. he recognizes leadership as an educator, as an advocate, and as an effective legislator, as someone who is valued by this caucus, who has been endorsed from everyone from hakeem jeffries to elizabeth warren. but the endorsement that matters the most is that the people, i know that if he has earned their trust and their confidence, and their partnership, because he has proven -- he is someone that i work with shoulder to shoulder on issues relative to trauma informed schools, restorative justice, addressing the baby formula shortage, paid sick leave for rail workers. jamaal bowman is pro-peace, pro- humanity, pro-justice. and i am grateful that he is my partner and my movement brother . i will do everything in my power to make sure that he is decisively returned in the same way that he was decisively elected the first time by multigenerational, multiracial movements and deliver to congress by the people to do exactly what he has done. >> in the washington post, wrote a piece titled, no one should be surprised the black politician is the canary in the coal mine. shut up or else is the message a pro israel lobby is sending two black lawmakers who are critical of what is happening in gaza. i just want to know from your experience -- is that a message you are getting about the war in gaza? >> i would say that jamaal bowman, like many progressive black lawmakers before him, is a target because of the struggle and progressive stances he has taken across the board. he is a disruptor of the status quo because he wants us to advance solutions that go as far and as deep as the hurt. he has never forgotten the plot, and the plot is the people. he leaves a glove, he centers the people, he is an effective legislator. he is a loving and dedicated husband and father. he is an effective advocate. and it was an incredible educator. again, this is a candidate who is pro-peace, humanity, and justice. i am very heartened by the energy and the response, and i'm going to continue to be out there in new york's 16th making the case and reminding people of the good work that jamaal bowen has done. i just want to remind folks that just because we have titles, you know, it doesn't -- it doesn't change our vulnerability. you know, what do you do when your very existence is the resistance? you dig deep and you put your head down and you keep doing the work, and you don't lose sight of what matters worse, and that is the people. that is exactly what jamaal bowman has done. >> as you are very well aware, race has played a great role in this campaign. he said that bowman has, quote, and ethnic benefit over him. latimer also accused bowman of representing dearborn, michigan, a reference to a city with a large arab and muslim population. are you worried that if a young black candidate like bowman is ousted with this money from congress, that this can hurt democrats in november with constituencies they definitely need to win the presidency come november in a state like michigan? >> i am worried about the impact of the absence of the voice of jamaal bowman and his affected leadership and advocacy. and what that will mean. but i don't have time to worry, because i have to work. we have seen over and over again that organized people beats organized money. the power of the people has always been greater than the people in power. some people might think that's an odd statement coming from a member of congress in a position of power, i believe jamaal bowman is in the seat he is in because he recognizes where the real power lies, and that is with the people. >> the slogan he has been using, it's the many verses the money. as a class element here. the majority of members of congress are millionaires. jamaal bowman was a middle school principal before entering congress. is there room for working-class politicians or even in the democratic party if people like jamaal bowman are squeezed out by big money, big dark money? >> the electorate philip decisively said he was in congress, and i believe it will do it again with a mandate that we do need people that create diversity of perspective and thought and lived experience that the people closest to the pain should be the closest to the power, driving and informing the policymaking. as a black man in america, as a parent, you know, who worries and fights for his children, you know, he has been closest, and that is exactly why we need him, because he brings that perspective, that understanding of the nuance, the complexity of the intersectionality of these issues and remains laser focused on advancing solutions that go as broad and as deep. listen, at the end of the day, who you vote for determines was elected. the policies determine everything. who lives, dies, who survives, who thrives. >> always a pleasure. we appreciated as always. >> vote, june 25th. >> louisiana's -- has it opened the door for christian nationalists in this country? 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