department are facing perhaps the biggest challenge yet. it comes from a federal justice department probe more than three years in the making and is detailed in a 22-page letter to the maricopa county attorney. detailing, "a pervasive culture of discriminatory bias against latinas at the mcso," the maricopa county sheriff's office, "that reaches the highest levels of the agency." in addition, the letter details a study commissioned by the department of justice that found latino drivers, quote, are four to nine times more likely to be stopped than similarly situated non-latino drivers. there's more in the report, documenting detention officers at the sheriff's jail using offensive slurs and profanities. calling them, quote, wetbacks, stupid mexicans, and slurs we can't mention on the air. according to the attorney general for the civil rights division, they're also reviewing allegations that sheriff arpaio's department failed to investigate hundreds of alleged sexual assaults and child molestation cases. many of the victims apparently were latinos. earlier this year, when "360's" ed lavendera spoke with sheriff arpaio, the sheriff painted himself as the victim. >> have they charged you with anything having to do with abuse of power? >> i don't even know what abuse of power is. i'm the one being abused. even you are abusing me, over and over again. abusing this sheriff. i violate the law, i do this win do that. i'm the guy being abused. but you know what, that's part of the job. and i take it. >> there's sheriff arpaio this summer. late today, he and other officials answered the federal allegations. he said he wasn't going to be made a whipping boy by the justice department. another official claimed the justice of department letter lacks specific, saying, quote, we're wrestling with clouds. and when asked, sheriff arpaio said he has compassion for latinos, but enforcing the law overrides that compassion. joining us now is thomas perez, assistant attorney general for the civil rights division of the united states department of justice. how bad is the situation as far as you're concerned at this sheriff's office in maricopa county? >> well, i think the department is broken in a number of very critical ways. the discriminatory policing that we documented and that discriminatetory policing is compounded by a penchant for retaliating against people who speak out against them, and then when you layer on top of that the challenges in the jail where people are punished because they don't speak english, and then you look finally at these other issues that have come to light more recently involving the failure to investigate sexual assaults and issues of that nature, it paints a very troubling picture of a department that is broken in a number of important ways, and a culture of disregard, frankly, for the constitution that pervades the department. >> what reaction, if any, have you gotten from the sheriff's office? >> well, we met with the sheriff's office this morning. they're still digesting the report and what we said and what i continue to say is, i would rather fix the problem than fix the blame. we have a lot of work to do. this is serious stuff. when you're talking about the failure to investigate sexual assaults, when you're talking about people who are incarcerated for no reason, many of them are u.s. citizens, legal immigrants. these are serious issues, and in other cities -- and we have 20 investigations under way, anderson, across the country, and more than ever before in our division's history. and the the approach in virtually all of them have been collaboration and cooperation as opposed to confrontation. that's what i want to do here. i want to work together not simply with the sheriff's office but with the entire community to come up with a comprehensive blueprint for sustainable reform that will reduce crime, ensure respect for the constitution, and restore public confidence in the sheriff's office. >> that all sounds great, though, but i've interviewed sheriff joe arpaio before. he's been steadfastly unapologetic when it comes to his methods. he basically says, look, i do what i have to do to keep my community safe. i've been voted back into office repeatedly. people are breaking the law, they deserve to be punished. that seems to be his response. >> well, i'm hopeful that when they read this report and they see the troubling findings regarding, again, not only the acts of comission, but the acts of omission, the profiling. and our expert talked about how this is the worst case of racial profiling that he has ever seen in any work he's done in the united states. when they see the culture of tolerance for retaliatory behavior and then when you see the acts of omission, the failure to arrest and prosecute and investigate sexual assaults, this is about public safety as much as anything. >> should the sheriff keep his job? i mean, you're saying his tactics are unconstitutional. you're saying that he's personally responsible for a culture of bias. should he be the sheriff? >> i think the sheriff needs to fix the problems that we've identified. and we've outlined a road map. and it's a road map that we have been able to follow, anderson, with great success in other cities. and i hope we can follow it here. the rule in our work in the other cities has been collaboration and cooperation, and i hope we can do that here. >> thomas perez, i appreciate you joining us. thank you. >> my pleasure. >> we should mention, we obviously reached out to sheriff arpaio to come on the program. he declined our invasion. with me now, senior legal analyst, jeffrey toobin, who is a former federal prosecutor. >> and a former resident of phoenix. >> what do you make of this report from the justice department? >> well, this isn't a surprise to anyone who has followed sheriff joe for all these years. he has bragged about his tough-minded enforcement, and all those prisoners in those ridiculous striped outfits, they have to wear pink underwear. this is sort of his m.o. he is going to completely reject this, as he did briefly in his statement this afternoon. and, frankly, the more importantly thing that's going on in phoenix now is that there's a criminal investigation from the u.s. attorney's office there about civil rights violations that i think is the only thing he's going to pay any attention to. i mean, this sort of very nice polite letter, he's going to throw in the trash. >> so the justice department puts out this report. does it have any ramifications? does it have any legal -- >> not yet. i mean, they had to go -- >> they're not suing him? >> they're not suing him. it's a letter. they had to go to court just to get him to cooperate with this investigation. and, you know, joe arpaio with a 22-page letter. i mean, it's nothing to him. this is something -- you know, he has built his career by defying the feds. you know, interestingly, the department of homeland security today, as a result of this, cut off some of the contracts between the department of homeland security and the sheriff's department. homeland security is run by janet napolitano, former governor of arizona. she has tangled with him in the past. but he's outlasted her. he's up for re-election next year. chances are he'll run and win again. and the only thing that's going stop him is a criminal indictment. >> so is there any chance the justice department would bring some sort of charges? >> well, there's been an investigation undergoing for several months, if not years. it's completely separate -- >> okay, that's -- >> i don't know -- i don't want to pre-judge that. i don't know what's going to happen there. but that's the only thing that's going to -- >> but it's not like this tuition which wrote this letter, he rejects the the letter, and they're like, well, now we're going to file charges? >> with all respect to assistant attorney general perez, all this discussion about reconciliation and cooperation, i don't know what planet those people are living on. >> it's political speak. he clearly doesn't want to say, yeah, he's going to -- >> but why not say it? this is a guy who has thumbed his nose a tt the justice department for years. he's sued, he's arrested other public officials in phoenix. this is a guy who plays for keeps. and a polite letter from the justice department is going to do exactly nothing. >> and if there was a criminal charge, would he -- i mean, he can only be voted out of office? >> well, if there's a criminal charge, if he's convicted, he would certainly have to leave office. but he's up for -- he's up for re-election in 2013, i believe. and it's really up to the voters. and the thing that has turned phoenix a little bit on him has been the failure to investigate the sexual assaults. you mentioned it, perez mentioned it a little bit. that's so awful. and it's not, you know, his traditional tough-guy act. it's such a dereliction of duty that that's the thing that might sink him with the voters more than any of the immigration stuff. >> why would he fail or refuse to investigate sexual assaults? >> because they're hispanic. the victims are hispanic. >> as simple as that? >> that's the only explanation that seems plausible to me. this is a community that he views as targets, not as victims. and they have not -- and so he ignored them. >> as i said w, we invited him the program and he declined this time around. he's been on in the past. jeff toobin, appreciate it. suspect jerry sandusky got a new member of his legal team. and a suspicious answer he gave about training underage kids how to use soap in the shower. and yesterday the university president suggested it was too shrouded in secrecy no uncover. today's florida governor had something to say about that. we spoke with him. we'll be right back. [ woman ] my boyfriend and i were going on vacation, so i used my citi thank you card to pick up some accessories. a new belt. some nylons. and what girl wouldn't need new shoes? we talked about getting a diamond. but with all the thank you points i've been earning... ♪ ...i flew us to the rock i really had in mind. ♪ [ male announcer ] the citi thank you card. earn points you can use for travel on any airline, with no blackout dates. earn points you can use for travel on any airline, ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] everyone deserves the gift of a pain free holiday. ♪ this season, discover aleve. all day pain relief with just two pills. tonight, florida's governor is calling for the immediate suspension of james aamanda, the president of florida a&m university. governor rick scott made the recommendation today. many were asking whether amounds and other university officials either missed or overlooked warning signs of hazing, brutal beatings that have landed several students in the hospital over the years. less than three weeks later, drum major robert champion was beaten to death. his killing focused attention on hazing at the marching band at a&m and other historically black colleges and universities where marching bands are often the main attraction on game day. the ban of these historically colleges and universities is king. beating victim bria hunter sat down with a reporter from her hometown the atlanta tv station wxia. her mother was with her, and as you'll hear, didn't let bria say much. >> the first day, everybody was -- well, not everybody, but some -- a good few people got hit. >> um, you need to stop. >> okay. i'm not comfortable. >> he told me that last -- >> you need to ask no more questions. she needs to go back to school. i'm not going to be there. >> florida a&m's president has spoken at length, telling our jason carroll yesterday that hazing at a&m is shrouded in, quote, a veil of secrecy. >> one of the things that we have found with hazing is that there is a, there's a veil of secrecy. this is a culture, not just here at florida a&m university. # it's on college and university campuses all across america. >> that suggestion that no one could have known flies in the face of common sense. critics and experts says ammans either was or should have been aware of the problem. the problems with the band were apparently common knowledge. 26 band members were expelled for hazing shortly before champion's death. what's more, from 1989 to 2001, three band members were badly beaten. two sued, one collected a settlement and the other one a lawsuit worth $1.8 million. on top of all of that, band hazings are also the norm at other top historically black colleges and universities. we'll have more on that shortly from our guest, professor ricky jones, author of "black haze." first, the latest from jason carroll who joins us from tallahassee. jason? >> reporter: well, anderson, the governor tells me that he spoke to ammons earlier this afternoon. he basically explained his point of view, basically saying now that there are two investigations going on at the university, one, of course into the hazing. a separate investigation into allegations of financial fraud. the governor felt as though it was best for someone else to be acting as president. listen to what he said when we caught up with him just a little while ago. >> i just want to go over very quickly your decisions behind the recommendation to have dr. ammons step aside while the investigation takes place. >> all i've suggested is he step aside during the investigation. i'm not asking for him to resign. you know, fdl has come out and says they're looking for financial irregularities. i think it's in the school's best interest that he step aside and say, look, i want to make sure that there's a thorough investigation where no one can ever suggest that people aren't cooperating. >> reporter: when i spoke to the university president yesterday, he feels as though he's done everything that the law has required him to do. do you think that is enough? >> well, i think you have to also just look at perceptions, and you want to make sure that things are perceived, that are being done the right way. i mean, this is tragic. it starts with the death of a young man and then it goes to now the investigation expanding into financial irregularities. i mean, i think it's in his best interest to say, look, i want to make sure that this is -- there's no question that this university's doing the right thing and is cooperating. >> what's the reaction from the school and from the president? >> reporter: well, anderson, this evening i spoke to one of ammon's associates, who says he's extremely disappointed that the governor would make this recommendation. he says that ammons is crest fallen, that he wanted to stay and fight for the university. having said that, ammons did release a statement basically saying, i'm sure that this investigation will determine that around my leadership, the administration acted propose lit. i serve at the pleasure of the famu board of trustees andly abide by whatever decision the board reaches. and anderson, i can tell you that the board will be reaching a decision on monday. >> all right. jason carroll, as always, thanks very much. joining us now is the university of louisville professor, ricky jones. he's director of university's center on race and inequality. he's also the author of a book, "black haze." professor, thanks for being on again with us tonight. what do you think of the governor calling for the suspension of the florida a&m president? >> warranted. i think it's seriously warranted. if we look at the penn state situation, for instance. there's been a lot of talk about jerry sandusky and joe paterno, but in academic circles, there's a lot of talk about graham spanier. graham spanier was seen as an ideal university president. but when things like this happen on your watch and you don't take appropriate steps to speak to those things, proactively, then changes have to be made. so spanier was out. and i think the same thing has happened with ammons. and if these moves are made more often, i think presidents will be more aggressive in speaking to issues like hazing at famu. >> what do you think is at the core of this kind of hazing? i don't think a lot of people think about a band as a place where there's hazing. but there are sub-groups within this band at florida a&m. there's a group from georgia, which apparently robert champion was part of. and there are all these different sub-groups, i guess, have their own kind of codes of discipline. what gets to the core of this, in your opinion? >> the drive of students to belong. and that's why arguments that are made by folk who say, look, people who consent to this are the folks who really have to stop and the practice will go away. they're absolutely wrong. you cannot put the entire onus on a group of students who usually are between the ages of 18 and 24 years old. and they are driven by the desire to belong. so they're going to do a whole lot of things to belong. folks who will not submit to the behavior are folks who are not going to join the band, not going to join the greek letter organizations, any of these. so that's what's at the core of it. the bands are incredibly popular. students will join it, want to be accepted, they don't want to be socially ostracized. but the president and his administration should know that that's a very common practice. i mean, i know, and i never attended famu or work there had. >> we had the debate on the program last night with you and roland martin. i thought it was very interesting and got a big response on twitter as well. you seem to say that this isn't just kind of hazing, as people think about it at fraternities across the country. that there's a level of aggression here or violence here that is different. correct? >> well, yeah. i mean, the record speaks for itself. you look at joel harris of moorhouse college, michael davis at southeast university, donnie wade down at prairie u. university. these people are being beaten to death or drowned or folks are suffering brain damage, comatose, all of these things. if people want to disagree with me, that's fine. if they want to disagree with my argument. but they can't give me my argument. and the point is this. i never said that hazing does not occur in white greek organizations. i never said that white greeks should not be suspended or disbanded. i'm simply saying that the manifestation of it is very different in black greek groups. but anderson, you have to understand this. these are groups that are very difficult to have an honest and reasonable conversation with. you have folk who are affiliated with famu and with this band who will simultaneously say, we really grieve for robert champion and his family, and then pivot and say, well, he shouldn't have consented to this and the band can't go away. when did these organizations become so sacred that we can't have conversations about banning them from our campuses? >> so why is this different, though, from what happens at fraternities across the country, or white fraternities? >> you know, there are so many theories on that. and we would need a whole lot longer to discuss that. but it is clear that it is different. it's much more physical. and, again, the white greeks do haze, but not as physical as the black greeks, and we do not have the manifestations that we see at hbcu bands, at pwi bands, predominantly white institution bands, we simply don't see that behavior. >> and the other thing i was really struck by that you said last night is, you think the only way to stop this is to eliminate the organization totally. to eliminate the band. i mean, that's not really a practical solution, though, is it? >> i disagree. i think it is a practical solution. you know, when you have talks about eliminates bands or eliminating greeks, people talk like this hasn't happened. this has happened at universities throughout this country. they've been private schools, the kolbes, williams, prince