Transcripts For CNNW Anderson Cooper 360 20120411 : vimarsan

CNNW Anderson Cooper 360 April 11, 2012



stress syndrome. we understand he may have lost a lot of weight. our concern, for him to do this when he's got a couple of professionals working as hard as we were for his benefit, to handle it that way suggests he may not be in complete control of what's going on. we're concerned for his emotional and physical safety. >> that was hal uhrig. zimmerman for his part has said nothing on his website, which he did update today, writing, "i'm attempting to respond to each and every one of my supporters personally. the support has been overwhelming in volume and strength." joining us are attorneys hal uhrig and craig sonner. why did you decide to speak so publicly about this today? >> a couple of reasons. first of all, we want to make it absolutely clear we're professionals. we have ethical requirements. we've been asked by mr. zimmerman to represent him. we've been in constant communication with him, even while we were in new york this past weekend. suddenly on sunday, he went quiet and dark. we found out on monday he set up a website on his own without conferring with us, couldn't get a hold of him. and yesterday after additional developments, we talked to the prosecutor this morning, we learned he had communicated directly with both another national news network and the prosecutor's office. contrary to our advice, with us unable to get any kind of contact with him at the phone he was using to talk to them, we couldn't go out in the public and say we still represent him without getting him to confirm it and talk with us. >> mr. sonner, when i first spoke to you a couple of weeks ago, you had not had any meetings with george zimmerman at that time, and today you revealed that you still had not met face to face with george zimmerman. did you find that odd that this late in the game you still had not met with your client face to face? >> no, because there are many times i represent clients who are out of state or in other places. in this case, because of the danger that george zimmerman was in, i understood that he had to stay hidden, and if he came to my office, there were a lot of people coming through, a lot of media and so on, and the black panthers had a $10,000 reward on his head. so it made sense that it would only communicate by telephone and e-mail and text, and that worked fine. >> mr. uhrig, were you ever officially his attorneys? had he signed a document saying you were his attorneys? had you met with family members, his family members? >> we had been in communication with family members. in fact, the father went to the bank with mr. sonner to set up the bank account, which the website we put up for his benefit so that we didn't touch the money. the money would go to a bank account with only his father's name on it. his father was communicative with us, he was communicative with us. we sent him a written contract. he said he had signed it and sent it back. we haven't seen it. so we decided to let the public know, stop asking the questions. we don't know any more than you do. >> you said today that george zimmerman is, quote, probably suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder. is that ethical to be commenting on his alleged mental state? >> absolutely. it may wind up being a defense. one thing is for certain. we're concerned about his physical and mental state. it did not strike us as rational. you have every right to hire and fire who you want to, but to simply stop communicating with your legal team gives us pause for concern on how he's doing, and it might represent a normal rational explanation for what's happening as opposed to saying he's doing something untoward. >> was that information you had been told by -- maybe i should ask this of mr. sonner since you were actually with his father. was this information you learned from his father or another family member, information that george zimmerman had actually said to you, or simply your impression that george zimmerman is suffering from that mental state? >> i'm not going to make any comments as to whether -- it's just speculation as to what he's going through because of everything that he's endured at this point. the primary thing was that all of a sudden things -- i think as hal said, he went dark. he wasn't contacting me anymore. he wasn't calling by phone, wasn't sending e-mails, wasn't sending text messmessages. on saturday i talked to him, some little thing we had to resolve, and everything seemed fine on saturday. something happened on sunday, and, of course, we learned there was a website set up, which was fine that he set it up. i had lined up a website designer to do it, and we set up a bank account because i didn't think he was going to be able to do it. it was really better that he was able to do it himself. it keeps me from being involved with his money. that's something that lawyers don't want to do is have their hands too much on their client's money. contrary to what the lawyer jokes say, we want to keep -- the quickest way to get disbarred is to get your hands on your client's money or in your client's trust fund. so that was just fantastic with me that he was setting up his own. but he was also making contact with -- i was getting calls from the media saying, you know, george zimmerman has contacted us. is this really him? i found out from a prosecutor that george zimmerman had contacted the prosecutor's office. and he wasn't returning my calls. >> so you felt like you had no control over your client, you had no real influence over your client? >> we had lost client control because he wasn't returning phone calls. if it turns out he was just going through a tough time and he wants us to come back for him, i think that things could be resolved. but at this point, it doesn't seem likely as the phone calls aren't being returned. i don't know where he's going from here. >> mr. uhrig, a friend of george zimmerman, frank taffe, has come forward and told us that he spoke to zimmerman yesterday and that zimmerman was -- and i quote -- clear, concise, and lucid. would you characterize him as clear, concise, and lucid in your conversations with him? >> you know what, i didn't see him yesterday, and i don't know mr. taffe. what i know is this. i've represented thousands of clients over the years. some clients have become dissatisfied. they know how to use the phone and call me and tell me that or send me an e-mail if they don't want to talk to me or send me a text message if they don't want to e-mail me. under the circumstances of this case, it seemed beyond unusual, and we felt like we had an ethical obligation to kind of step aside. we have nothing against george zimmerman. we believe in his case. we believe in his innocence. we were prepared to defend him all the way, but we simply cannot defend somebody who won't communicate with us and who is off the reservation talking to people we advised him not to talk to. >> you said today he's much farther away than florida. are you sure he's in the united states? >> since he's not within my view right now, i couldn't tell you exactly where he's at. we have some reason to know where -- some point in time. i'm not going to start speculating on that. i can tell you this. i don't believe he's a flight risk. i believe, as we had promised, if he's ever charged, which we hope he's not, that he'll turn himself in. if he calls us and asks us to participate in that, we'll talk to him about it. if not, we'll have some other lawyer help him with it. >> can you say for certain whether or not he's in the united states? >> no, he's in the united states. i have had phone contact and talked with him on his cell phone and so on. he did reveal what state he was in and where he was when he was communicating with me. as of sunday and monday and today is tuesday, those days, i don't know where he is, but i don't believe he's going to leave the country. i mean, he called the prosecutor's office this morning. i don't think he's a flight risk. i never did think he was a flight risk. >> craig sonner, hal uhrig, appreciate you both being on the program tonight. thank you very much. we're going to continue the breaking news coverage. let's bring in our own legal coverage. criminal defense attorney mark geragos and former prosecutor sunny hostin. mark geragos, as a defense attorney, what was your reaction to this very public withdrawal? >> oh, my god. i'm sitting here, anderson, and this is just a train wreck of proportions i don't even know where to begin. >> explain. >> well, first of all, i don't understand the people invoking their ethical obligations and then going out and blasting the client, which is what they just did. this may be the height of chutzbah for criminal defense lawyers to say we haven't talked to our clients for two days. so therefore we're withdrawing. by the way, there's no court case filed. so there's nothing to withdraw from, number one. number two, who are you to be diagnosing your client's mental state when you say you haven't talked to him? this was completely inexplicable. i thought i was watching a "saturday night live" skit. >> is it unusual to you, mark, that they were never officially retained by mr. zimmerman? every time i've hired attorneys, i've gotten a document pretty quickly to sign, or even a real estate agent, a document pretty quickly to sign to say, i am retaining you. >> here in california -- you've got jose on the line. you can ask jose. here in california, if it's a retention for over $1,000, the state bar rule is it must be in writing signed by the client. to be out there doing the media tour and bouncing from place to place -- and i'm telling you, my tongue is bleeding because i was biting my tongue as i was watching this because i don't like to second guess other lawyers who are in the eye of the storm. but this, frankly, is one of the most outrageous things i've ever witnessed. this is really beyond the pale for two lawyers to go out there and say, we haven't contacted him in two days, and we felt it was our ethical responsibility to go on the air right now and start blasting him and saying, it may be a potential defense that the guy's got a mental problem when we're trying to say that he was in reasonable fear for his life when he had shot somebody. this is just the height of absurdity. i don't even know where to begin on this, anderson. it's ridiculous. >> jose baez, what do you make thf? >> well, anderson, first, you can't have mark on before me because he just stole every single word i was about to say. i too thought i was watching a "saturday night live" skit. it's unbelievable that you would get on television and talk about your client's mental state. what you have here, you have -- as an attorney, you have an ethical obligation not only just to attorney-client communications, but attorney-client confidences, things you learn in the process of representing a client are considered confidential. so any conversation that they had or nonconversation that they had with george zimmerman are completely protected. and the holder of this privilege is george zimmerman, not the attorneys. unfortunately, i've seen in central florida this type of resignation from -- a public resignation from another attorney, who i'd rather not name, and i think it's reprehensible. unbelievable. >> jose, what do they have in the water down there in florida? i don't understand what they're doing. this is just absolutely the worst thing i think i can remember seeing any lawyers do in regards to their client. i thought that some of the previous interviews were train wrecks. those things were toy cars compared to what this is. >> actually, jose, let me just ask you about the florida law. how quickly are you supposed to sign a document retaining counsel? >> a retainer agreement is not required, unlike in other states. it is strongly suggested, and certainly it is something that any competent lawyer would do, immediately get a retainer agreement. especially if you're putting your face, your name, in front of a television camera, saying that you represent someone that you haven't even met. i think that's incredibly reckless. >> sunny hostin, you're a former prosecutor. what's your take on it? >> for once, mark geragos and i agree. i agree with jose baez as well. i've never seen anything like this. mark, you have me on this one. >> finally. >> i think as a prosecutor you come -- you're looking at a case, and now i'm worried. i'm worried, if i am inclined to bring charges, is george zimmerman a flight risk? can i get to him if i have to issue an arrest warrant? >> exactly. >> now, maybe my investigation is going a little more quickly. maybe now i'm going to bring charges a little more quickly. and so this really harms george zimmerman in the eyes of a prosecutor looking at this case and deciding whether or not to charge. >> who are they going to call? they're going to call these two lawyers as witnesses to his mental state, as jose aptly described is something completely protected by privilege, and they go out on national tv and say that this guy is unhinged and that he's potentially a flight risk? >> hold on. i've just been given a media alert from the office of angela cory, the state attorney in florida. state attorney angela cory is preparing to release new information regarding the trayvon martin shooting death investigation. within the next 72 hours, miss cory will hold a news conference regarding the case. the media will receive e-mail notification. doesn't go on to say anything more. >> no surprise there. >> what does that tell you, sunny? >> again, it tells me she's certainly concerned about this new development. >> do you think this is in relation to this development or whether she's going to have an arrest warrant? >> it could very well be the investigation is completed, but it could also very well be that she's watching the media, just like everyone else, that she watched the press conference, and now she is perhaps concerned about george zimmerman's safety, about george zimmerman's mental state, and whether or not he's going to flee the country, flee the jurisdiction. >> do you think this relates to what happened tonight? >> i'm telling you, sunny, this is one of those times, roll the videotape, that i agree with you wholeheartedly. it's exactly you're telegraphing to the prosecutor i don't have control over this guy. i don't know where he is. he's a flight risk. you're asking, anderson, great questions. is he in the country? guy says, well, yes, he's in the country, and yet at the same time, i don't know where he is, and i can't get in contact with him. >> he's not in florida. >> he's not in florida, he's somewhere else. of course, she's issuing a statement because of this. >> you have to assume he's a flight risk. because you have lawyers that are doing something that's ill advised, it still doesn't reflect on whether he's going to do something criminal and become a flight risk. i would kind of disagree with sunny on that one. while it would probably raise an eyebrow, is still is not any specific evidence of being a flight risk. i don't think it should be held against mr. zimmerman. >> if you cannot control your client, if your client is calling the media or calling the prosecutor without meeting with you face to face, without talking to you, don't you as a lawyer kind of want to step down or step back? >> yes, anderson, and i've done that. i've been in the exact, identical position. you resign. you don't go out and slam him. you don't go out and make some kind of off the court comments about the mental state. you just quietly resign and go on your way. it's not about you. it's not about the lawyer. your duty as a lawyer is to zealously represent your client. if you can't do it any longer, you resign, get out of the way. >> it happens every day. the lawyers withdraw every day. >> it happens every single day. >> it's a fascinating development, as we say. within 72 hours, the state attorney is going to be giving a press conference, it appears, with some sort of new development in the case, new information, in her words, new information regarding the trayvon martin shooting death investigation. there had been talk all week about a possible arrest warrant within the next 48 hours or so. it seems we'll know something within the next 72. sunny hos tin, mark geragos, jose baez, thank you. strange day. a lot more at cnn.com. tweet me @andersoncooper. i'll be tweeting tonight. talk to me right now. other big news, rick santorum's departure.♪ what it means for mitt romney's chances in the fall. we'll talk to paul begala and we'll talk to paul begala and dana bash about that. ♪ why tell the trees what ain't so? 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[ male announcer ] solutionism. the new optimism. we're at politics now. welcome to the fall campaign. now rick santorum, the only possible challenger for mitt romney, is dropping out of the race today. >> we made a decision to get into this race at our kitchen table and against all the odds, and we made a decision over the weekend that, while this presidential race for us is over, for me, and we will suspend our campaign effective today, we are not done fighting. >> sources say senator santorum called governor romney before making his announcement. for his part, governor romney praised his former opponent, calling him a worthwhile contender and a valuable ally. >> he will continue to have a major role in the republican party. and i look forward to his work helping assure help for republicans across the country. we've got to get that done. >> newt gingrich promised to keep campaigning. but really the math, though, the reality is pretty simple. mitt romney now has a clear path to the republican nomination. there's new cnn/orc polling that shows without santorum in the race, romney has a 28-point lead over newt gingrich. it appears to be game over for the primaries, and as we've already seen for both parties, game on for the general election. dana bash is with us tonight. as is senior strategist ari fleischer, and democratic strategist paul begala. it was clear santorum wasn't going to overtake romney in delegates. why drop out now? was it personal considerations or political or both? >> let's start with political. it's been obvious for some time, but in the near future, santorum at several events, first of all, they realized the next big, big state where they thought they could win, texas, once they thought it was not going to be winner take all, they realized it was going to be very difficult. secondly, they tried very hard in many ways to get newt gingrich, who's been siphoning conservative votes away from rick santorum, to get him out of the race, that doesn't work. and third, the pennsylvania primary coming up. paul begala knows pennsylvania very well. it was going to be tough for rick santorum. their spin is they were going to win. talking to santorum advisers privately, they were not so sure. romney was spending a lot of money. and on the personal side, spending the weekend in the hospital with his 3-year-old daughter for the second time during the campaign, it put things in perspective big time for him. >> certainly our thoughts are with her and with the family. as a democrat, would you have liked to see him stay in the race? >> sure. santorum had very little money, very little staffing. john reberger as his chief consultant, great guy. but beyond that, i don't think he even had a headquarters. headquarters was wherever his car was. he did a heck of a job in the primaries. he pointed the way for president obama. don't let him outspend you 16 to 1 which romney did. and authenticity, which santorum has in abundance and romney la

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