new problems for president biden in polling. his popularity is seeing is a drop in voters as they rank the biggest concerns. and president biden is leaving for a g20 summit in india and what they say he needs to pull off while there. and an american is stuck in a cave thousands of feet below ground, and the measures to rescue him. i'm john berman with sara sidner and kate bolduan. this is cnn "news central." >> oomph, problematic poll numbers for president biden, the approval numbers are sinking to 39%, and democrats are on notice as a 2024 race for the white house is heating up. among the voters' concerns, age. they are worried about the physical and mental competence along with how well he understands the concerns ofuture generations of americans. another big issue, the economy. 58% say that biden's policies have made economic conditions worse. all right. with me now, cnn political director david chalian and welcome back once again. for you, what stands out? there is a lot here. >> there is a lot here, and none of it good for the white house. this is a sort of the alarm bells are going off to sort of spell out to them the task ahead in the next few months. and the approval rating is hovering in that range here since the range, but that is how it is stacking up to the modern day predecessors at this stage in the presidency. so biden is sort of hanging in this area, with trump and carter just to note that both of those folks lost the re-election efforts when they were running for re-election, and looking at the mood of the country, 30% of the americans say that things are going well, but 7 in 10 americans say they are going badly. >> i am going to make the assumption that the economic issues are one of the big concerns for americans, inflation, and the jobs are not giving them enough money to keep up. >> no doubt. economy is a big part of this, but as we saw, he is also having a problem with the democrats, and their largest concern is centered around the age. and take a look at this, and we asked an open-ended question to democrats and democrat-leaning voters, and what is the biggest concern about the president, and it is age, sharpness, health, and this is all sort of the piece there, and this is a big warning sirnggn, and as you sai when we asked broadly, 3/4 of the americans in this poll thinks that his age is negatively impacting him to serve another full term. >> that is a stark number and one that the campaign is looking out and worried about. and lastly, how he stacks up to the republican rivals as well. >> this is the first time this cycle that we have tested the general election matchups against the general republican opponents, and everything, the economy, and the age and the approval rating is how he is in the margin of error basically tied races, and it is getting to be a close presidential election, and only nikki haley is the only one who is testing outside of the margin of error, with a six percentage error lead. we did see her on the debate stage have a strong performance and opening up the pitch to not just the pitch may have something to do with that there, but take a look at this. this is going to be once again a battle for 50 to 100,000 votes in four battleground states. this is a dead heat race at the moment. >> it is interesting to see the number, but here's the thing that we all know, that you have to be getting past the primary, and right now, who is the person in the lead at the gop, and that would be, and look at me, i am ruin the hold, but look at this, biden is the only person run at this point. >> a trump biden matchup, and you can see it is right there, and given the republican advantage in the electoral college, joe biden's team is going to want a stronger advantage in this popular vote to assure a walk in the electoral college. >> it is a snapshot in time, and people should know that we are not there yet, but it is going ever closer. >> and now, president biden is heading overseas soon, and arlette saenz is there. >> yes, president biden is set to depart for the g20 meeting in india, but troubling signs as david ran through in the recent polling in regards to the re-election, and the campaign is not commenting on the individual poll, but amplifying some democratic voices that the poll should be taken with grain of salt, but one biden aide that i spoke to said that the focus is not on this individual poll, but instead looking ahead to what the general election and battleground polls will ultimately show heading into next fall once there is a republican nominee selected. of course, so much of what the biden campaign has done in the early stages of the campaign is to try to paint this as a race between president biden, and maga extremism, and drawing on former president donald trump, but some of issues that david touched on there are issues worth focusing on when it is coming to president's handling of the economy. they have been making a big push over the summer to sell this bidenomics vision to sell to the americans, and the polling found that 58% of american voters believe that the president's policies have worsened economic condition, and showing that the white house, and the campaign, they have room, some movement that they need to make when it is coming to the public perception. one person here at the white house said it is going to take time for people to feel the economic impact, and they have the next year to make the case to voters, and another issue of top concern to the general election of the american voters and the democratic party are questions about president biden's age, and so far the campaign as not made headway of improving the numbers and you saw just the prevalence of the age question as vice president kamala harris traveled to indonesia and she did a pair of interviews where she was asked to address the president's age. >> you are 58 now. if you win a second term as you and the president are running to do. he would be 86 at the end of it, and the washington poll had a poll that said that joe biden is too old to run again. are you prepared to be commander in chief? >> yes, i am, if necessary, but joe biden is going to be fine. >> so, just an example of some of the areas of the campaign that they will have to improve on if they want the president to secure a second term here in the white house next november. >> thank you, arlette. joining us to talk about more on this is john avalon and margaret hoover also the host of "the firing line" on pbs. broad question first, because we have been talking and diving into the new poll number, and just how bad are they for joe biden. what are you seeing in the trend? >> they are bad for joe biden. no sugar coating this. you can move across the aisle and say take it with a grain of salt, but the overall issue is that the age and perceptions of vigor are dragging him down, and this is the poll among democrats and independents are seeing is serious erosion. and also the gap of the economy, and it is abjekabjectiveely bet ter -- better, and so people are not feeling it. >> and the reason is because joe biden is not doing the victory laps around it in every corner of the country, and this is my policy, and you have me to thank for this, and don't you feel good about it? i think that the polling is not looking good for joe biden as john pointed out, but the difference is that it is not saying trump v. biden. as soon as it is biden against donald trump, the numbers will look a little different, and this is only reason that he is still in this as according to many of his advisers. >> as you dig into this, the voters are saying that their vote in a biden-trump matchup is based largely on how they feel about donald trump and not about joe biden. >> that is what -- typically a re-election is a referendum on the incouincumbent, but now, yo seeing the electorate driving feelings of the electorate, and biden is under water, and trump is lower. >> good news for biden? >> it is compared to what the proposition is, as margaret said. >> and it is -- thank you, john avalon. >> there is a pony in there somewhere for joe biden, but i am not sure where. >> okay. wait, so, h s, let's talk aboutp v. biden and showing a snapshot here, and the first time that cnn has asked this question in the cycle showing that everything is within the margin of error, and biden versus all of the gop candidates without donald trump and it is nikki haley that is a in wa they he has tried to separate himself from trump and the pack, and someone who knows pence well, marc short was on, and the former chief of staff, and i said, you are trying to make the separation, but how do you call out trump for leading the country down the path of ruin, and you were part of the campaign of 2016, and this is what marc short said. >> i think that in 2016, donald trump came to conservatives said, if you nominate me, i will govern as a conservatives, and give me a list of judges, and give me the platform and i will adopt a tax reform, and those were implemented in the four years of the presidency, and hallmarks of conservativism, and he did govern as a conservative, but as he is running heshs has not come to the conservatives and said, what you would like to see as policy, but these are my grievance, and fight for me, and that is a different platform than he ran in 2016. >> i know marc short, and i understand what he is saying there, and i understand the argument that the conservatives is trying to say and what mike pence is trying to do to distinguish himself, but it is not going to be effective. and the extent to which he was conservative is because of me and the people like me in the cabinet and deferred to influence the policies and the policy directions that he litigated. the argument that mike pence made yesterday, populism versus conservativism, and a time for choosing is a missed opportunity. and the reason is because he is missing the point. yes, he is correct that the party is at a crossroads in the primary, and are we going to be populist like donald trump or conservative like everybody else, but the electorate is not voting on ideas, but grievances and personality of donald trump, and the other time of choosing that another republican president gave, but not at the ronald reagan said liz cheney said between trump and the constitution. and nobody is better positioned to make the case for the constitution over donald trump than mike pence as he demonstrated by last january 6th, and it is a missed opportunity. and why cloak itt in the ideas, because the ideas are the least of it, because it is about the constitution. >> and my bride is bringing the heat, and good advice for vice president pence. conservativism and populism are traditional opposites, but look, he tried to lump ramaswamy and pence to lump in together with trump. and that is the right strategy. >> hoovalon alert. it has shown up in the studio in the best possible way. >> and now, in the documents probe, and what we know about him and the potential testimony, but he stuchas been stuck thous of feet underground and the complicate and risky business of an american stuck in a cave in turkey, and for the 10th time this year, an inmate has died in the full ton county jail, and wt are the officials doing there. i'm sholeh, and i lost 75 pounds with golo. i went from a size 20 to a size 6. before golo, nothing seemed to work. i was exercising for over an hour every day. it was really discouraging. but golo's so easy, the weight just falls off. purple mattresses exclusive gel flex grid draws away heat relieves pressure and instantly adapts. sleep better. live purple. right now save up to $900 off mattress sets during purple's labor day sale. visit purple.com or a store near you. was also the first time you heard of a town named dinosaur, colorado. we just got an order from dinosaur, colorado. start an easy to build, powerful website for free with a partner that always puts you first. start for free at godaddy.com your shipping manager left to “find themself.” leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire we are now learning a lot more about why a trum p employe is going to testify against trump. jack smith struck a deal against the i.t. trump specialist struck a deal in order to avoid being prosecuted himself. he implicated walt nauta and others in their effort to delete security camera footage. former prosecutor elliott williams is joining us now, and welcome back with snazzy new glasses and great new tie, and we will talk about that later, but this is more important right now. and let's talk about the allegations here in the indictment that deolivera said that "the boss" wanted the surveillance footage deleted and it seems that the testimony could be crucial in this, and how much might this impact this case against donald trump? >> so it could be crucial testimony, and big picture why the witnesses matter and how you get a witness to matter is when somebody can testify first hand as to conversations they had with the defendant or the co-conspirator, and here, taveras worked or had communication with de oliveira and nauta and others and placed close to the former president. look, it appears he can't implicate the president, himself, but an important question is always what you can get into court. conversations that an individual has rather than ones that he overheard or saw can be more valuable and useful testimony to be admitted into court. >> i am curious as we see that you, and others sort of have said, look, likely people who flip here, and start saying what they know, because they don't want to be prosecuted. now that we have one in the documents case, do you see others following once the sort of the band-aid is torn off, if you will, do you see others following? >> yes, the band-aid analogy is a good one. witnesses have an incredible incentive to flip or to provide testimony for the government. one, typically pleading guilty tends to give the individual os or -- individuals a lower sentence, and many call it a trial penalty, and you get a higher penalty going to trial and convicted. and also, providing testimony that helps the prosecutors and truthful testimony also can work towards someone's favor. also note that taveras might have been charged with making false statements or pernljury, d so he going to get himself of going to jail. sot the incentives are many for him and other witnesses or defendants who might have something to say. >> we are seeing it happen, and we should note that when they are getting a different attorney, suddenly this seems to be the case that people start to say, oh, no, i could be in real trouble here and they don't have attorneys paid for by donald trump like for example walt nauta. i want to move to the case in georgia where the d.a. is saying the trial is going to be about four months and submitted to the court over 150 witnesses with potentially and maybe not potentially 19 defendants. is this possible? because even the judge was skeptical it could happen. >> look, we are americans, and anything is possible, sara, but this is not going to happen. talking about 150 witnesses, you are not talking about each one of them taking stand, but lawyers for all 19 defendants cross-examining, and each person might face multiple rounds of questioningb and then you get to the question of whether some of the defendants might get referred to federal court, and so, four months is ambitious under the best of circumstances and any number of questions to complicate the case, and it is not likely. >> it is interesting to see how it happens, and some people peeling off to have their cases heard in federal court, and number of things can happen from now to the date set, and that date moving. elliott williams, don't you go anywhere, and sit there in that chair, and we will come back to you. >> food breaks. and dangerous mission to go save a man's life. a man is trapped in a cave more than 3,000 feet underground. and an inmate has died in fulton county jail. the 10th to die there this year. c'mon, we're right there. c'mon baby. it's the only we need. go, go, go, go! ah! touchdown baby! -touchdown! are your neighbors watching the same game? yeah, my 5g home internet delays the game a bit. but you get used to it. try these. they're noise cancelling earmuffs. i stole them from an airport. it's always something with you, man. great! solid! -greek salad? exactly! don't delay the game with verizon or t-mobile 5g home internet. catch it on the xfinity 10g network. right now, some 150 rescuers are involved in what has become a complex mission to rescue an american cave expert. he is now stuck thousands of feet below the surface. is mark dickey and part of the research team working in a cave in turkey and the third deepest cave in turkey and a total depth of more than 4,100 feet. he fell ill at a depth of 3600 feet down, and then taken to the team's base camp at around 3,400 feet. and that is where the rescuers on the surface are now trying to reach out to get him stabilize and get him out. cnn's eleni gis there. >> and this cave is narrow, and it has narrow passages and very difficult to get through to various areas. and there are various base camps underground and you mentioned around 3,400 feet. and picture, in this is almost three times height of the empire state building. and that how deep he is underground right now. and 150 rescuers are on the ground trying to assist, including americans. so mark dickey fell sick saturday. and that is six days ago, and so we are talking about something that has been going on for quite some time, and he has received six units of blood. he is stable and able to walk, but if you know anything about cavingsh you have to be crawling and climbing and certain states of physical and mental strength to be able to get out. we are anticipating this could take a matter of days to be able to get him out with the assistance that they are talking about. they are talking about a stretcher. and now, imagine a stretch ter taken underground to get through the narrow space, and that is not perhaps the best option. at this point in time from what we are understanding from the rescue operations, they are trying to stabilize him to get him in the better physical state, and this is a very experienced caver, and over three decades of kafingcaving a the world which will help him to pull through, but will he be physically able enough to be removed. many teams are on the ground the figure out firstly, to get quickly as possible to get into the base camp to get more medical assistance and out. on a good day, kate, it is going to take 15 hours with the very experienced caver to get to the very top. so it becomes, and it is a sense of the complexity and how tough it is to be able to remove mark dickey at this stage. >> 15 hours when you are, you know, in perfect physical condition is what is it going to take. and this going to take a very long time, and tedious work to keep him well enough to get out. we will stay close in. eleni, thank you. john? atlanta police are investigating how an inmate die at the fulton county jail, and the 1th to die this year, and the sixth after july 31st, and this is the same jail where donald trump was processed a few weeks ago. ryan young live for us in georgia. ryan, the numbers here are staggering. >> john, the numbers are staggering and the community activists are wanting a change right now. and the doj is investigating this jail, and the sheriff has said that he needs a new facility, and everyone agrees that the jail is falling apart, but tell that to the family of shondre dellmore who was being held on a bond for $2400 for a minor offense, they don't understand how that leads to cardiac arrest. last week, multiple