for christmas. the bottom line in the presidential campaign. lots of talk, but not a lot of ideas. where will the big idea come from. let's go out front. hello, everyone. welcome to monday. i'm erin burnett. and out front tonight, big ideas. ron paul wants to cut $1 trillion from the federal budget. herman cain wants to toss out the current tax plan and go to 9-9-9. some people have laughed at the candidates for these big ideas, but the reality is a bold idea, not necessarily cain's or paul's, is what we need to break through the paralysis in washington that's hurting americans and america's reputation. paul, cain, and the other republican candidates are gathering in nevada for tomorrow's debate. and nevada is a place that needs a really big idea. the state's unemployment, 13.4%, highest in the united states of america. 4 percentage points above the national average. housing is a bust. nevada ranks number one in foreclosures. las vegas prices down almost 60% from the peak. we need big ideas we're going to be getting a democrat's view in just a moment with mike warner, but first let's find out if the nation is ready for a big idea. and what the response is to the cain and paul plans. gloria borger is cnn's chief political analyst, john avalon, columnist for "newsweek" and the daily beast. great to have both of you with us. gloria, since you're out in vegas, why don't you give us the sense, what was the response to ron paul's plan today, which, of course, in addition to the trillion-dollar budget cut in year one also included getting rid of several federal agencies. >> reporter: i think republicans are very interested in hearing what ron paul has to say. he's been a -- someone who's been on the scene for quite some time. but when you scratch the surface, erin, you see that he wants to eliminate five cabinet departments. he wants to cut spending back to 2006 levels. but when you look at that, that would mean severe cuts in things like medicaid, children's health insurance programs, and, again, once you look at the details, people are going to start raising questions about it. one other thing, he doesn't touch social security or, guess what, medicare. and those, even to this libertarian, seem to be sort of sacred cows, wouldn't you say, in an election year? >> that's an interesting point. john, what do you think about what gloria's saying, though? you come up with a big, bold idea, whatever it might be, from whatever side of the political spectrum, and then it gets pooped all over, because it's too bold. can anything really bold pass? >> in a divided government, of course, it's more difficult. but i agree that there's an obligation to propose big ideas. look, give ron paul points for philosophic consistency. he's been making these points for a long time and that's why his libertarian followers really do admire him, in a time where washington's really been gutless about proposing new ideas. the problem, however, is polarization. the problem is what you get in these primaries are people playing to the base with bumper sticker politics. and those plans almost by definition don't have a prayer of crossing over into mainstream support or getting bipartisan support which you need to divide and concur congress. >> gloria, what do you think these plans will do to the republican electorate? the cnn poll today sort of amazed me that two-thirds of likely republican voters have not decided who they're going to vote for yet. >> reporter: well, they're kind of fickle right now, erin, i would have to say. you you know, these republican voters -- you look admit romney, he's the only one that's kind of at 25%. he's everyone's second choice, kind of. so they're looking around. and what these debates are really job interviews. and people haven't decided who they want to hire as the republican nominee. so i think it's kind of no surprise that right now, they're looking at the field and they're saying, okay, let's see what you have to offer. by the way, mitt romney had a complicated 59-point economic plan and he got taken on by herman cain, because it was too complicated. but this is a complicated country with big problems that require very complex solutions. >> i had an issue with that plan, i'm thinking, 59 -- why not 60? at least he could have got to an even number or something. >> reporter: i'm with you. i'm with you. couldn't they have thought of one more point, right. >> john avalon, what do you think in terms of the three quarters of republican voters that are undecided. are they going to go bold or when push comes to shove, going to go more safe? >> it points to how disaffected they are with the field, the limits on mitt romney's campaign, the fact that he's stuck in the mid-20s, and the fact that no one's made the sale because people are feeling to anxious and frustrated and fearful about the future. people want major change in washington, but they want someone who can figure out a way to bring that change and bridge the divides that exist in politics. that's a tall order, but the responsibility of whoever's chief executive. >> gloria, john, thanks so much to both of you. if you're a republican running for president, you have an advantage, because you can come up with these big, bold ideas. because you're the guy trying to get the job. it's harder on the democratic side when the person running is an incumbent. but we wanted to talk democratic big ideas. and virginia center mark warner is adamant that ds and rs can strike a grand bargain. he's got some ideas himself, a member of the group of six, and great to have you with us. really appreciate you taking the time. >> thanks, erin. >> let me ask you, senator warner, you've talked a lot about infrastructure, but when you talk about a big bold idea that comes from the d side of the aisle, where you sit, what would it be? >> let me give you two or three ideas. first of all, i think we need to acknowledge, we're coming out of the worst recession since the great depression, and government has already used its biggest tools. in any downturn, you use monetary policy to lower interest rates, we've done that, and you use government to stimulate the economy. we've kind of done that. so where do we stand now? we've got to look at what else we can do. infrastructure investment bank, not a new fannie and freddie, but actually an infrastructure investment bank, similar to what has been used in many other countries can jump-start infrastructure. we've turned from a competitive advantage into a competitive disadvantage. >> yeah, just to jump in quickly, we're number 23 in the world right now, the united states of america, on infrastructure quality. you see it in every airport you fly into anywhere else now. >> it doesn't make any sense to go to shanghai to see the world's fastest train or airports in the 21st century. that makes no sense. we've got to figure out a way to bring in private capital. and i've been working on the so-called build act, bipartisan, should be able to get through, that says, let's encourage private capital to help us to reinvest in our infrastructure. >> and quickly, senator warner, how big would you make this infrastructure investment bank? >> i think that -- >> because the president pushed for it when he started the stimulus, he didn't get asp as he wanted. how big is big and bold when it comes to infrastructure today? >> one of the things about an infrastructure investment bank is $10 billion to $20 billion of capital could be leveraged up, in effect, with private capital on top of that, using the kind of export/import bank model. and you could end up with $500 billion, $600, $700 billion worth of projects that would get started on that. you'll need to also look at additional funding to infrastructure in its traditional source. right now the gas tax is a declining source of revenue, and obviously, nobody wants to touch the gas tax. but infrastructure would be one area. another area would be, i think it's time to take a fresh look at the housing market. in 2008, 2009, when t.a.r.p. originally came out, it was supposed to be about fixing the housing market. it didn't do that. and then i think the general consensus among the experts was, let this housing problem just kind of work its way through. well, in states like nevada, california, arizona, florida, and the rest of the country, that's not happening. so there are some ideas out there about refinancing 20 million of the freddie and fannie owned mortgages of the current market rate at 4% or take a lot of the mortgages that are underwater and move to a rent-to-own program rather than the current, kind of simply having these folks go into foreclosure. >> would you put principle reduction on the table? >> i voted for principle reduction, as long as it was a narrowly defined universe. that window has passed, but i think that vote looks better and better at this point, as a way to kind of staunch, to still the bleeding that's going on in the housing market. a bold idea around housing. but they're also, i think you have to acknowledge, a need for some smaller ideas, because there may not be the single silver bullet. so whether it's ideas about spectrum, ideas about reform of our food and drug administration to get medical devices and pharmaceuticals to the market quicker, whether it's about making sure that we no longer continue to educate the best and brightest from around the world and then send them home instead of stapling a green card to allow them to start these businesses here in america. there are ideas out there. >> and it's nice to hear them, because your optimism and can-do attitude is what everyone wants to hear a lot more of. i know that you were part of the gang of six and you've hosted dinners for both sides of the aisle. can you look the american people in the eye tonight and say there could be a grand bargain? that we're not just going to hear a, it's all about taxes on one side, all about spending on the other, and we're never going to get anywhere in washington. >> unless we are willing to put entitlement reform and tax reform that raises revenues into the mix, we're not going to do the job that we were hired to do. and frankly, i understand why everybody is -- congress is a, what, 8% approval rating at this point? >> yeah. >> i still believe we need a $4 trillion deal that that is grand bargain. and there are 44 senators at this point, and we're still growing, that say if super committee goes large, we'll be there to support them even if it's not a perfect situation. >> i hope that they do and i hope that you can get it done. thank you so much, sir. >> thanks, erin. up next, a number of gop candidates propose building an electric fence along the mexican border. is this a big, bold idea that will solve america's immigration problem? and then dsk, that would be dominique strauss-kahn, caught up in another sex scandal. the top police officer accused of being his personal pimp. and a herman cain clip that is even better than we imagined. we cannot resist playing it for you tonight. in america, we believe in a future that is better than today. since 1894, ameriprise financial has been working hard for their clients' futures. never taking a bailout. helping generations achieve dreams. buy homes. put their kids through college. retire how they want to. ameriprise. the strength of america's largest financial planning company. the heart of 10,000 advisors working with you, one-to-one. together, for your future. ♪ a we don't go lower than 130. ts a room tonight for 65 dollars. big deal, persuade him. is it wise to allow a perishable item to spoil? he asked, why leave a room empty? the additional revenue easily covers operating costs. 65 dollars is better than no dollars. okay. $65 for tonight. you can't argue with a big deal. [ male announcer ] it has an hd webcam, killer audio, and lids that switch to start every semester fresh. but mostly it helps me try new moves on and off the court. ♪ [ male announcer ] powered by the 2nd gen intel core processor family. not just smart. visibly smart. get an inspiron 15r with 6 gig memory and 640 gig hard drive for $599.99 at dell.com. but i've learned a lot from patients who use flexpen. flexpen comes pre-filled with the insulin i take and i can dial the exact dose of insulin i need. i live my life on the go and need an on-the-go insulin. i don't need to carry a cooler with flexpen. novolog is a fast-acting, man-made insulin used to control high blood sugar in adults and children with diabetes. do not inject novolog if you do not plan to eat within 5 to 10 minutes after injection to avoid low blood sugar. tell your healthcare provider about all medicines you take and all of your medical conditions, including if you are pregnant or breastfeeding. the most common side effect of novolog is low blood sugar. other possible side effects include reactions at the injection site. get medical help right away if you experience serious allergic reactions, body rash, trouble with breathing, fast heartbeat or sweating. ask your healthcare provider about novolog flexpen today. learn more about the different insulins available in flexpen at myflexpen.com. flexpen, insulin delivery that goes with you. the number tonight, 50. that's the percent of americans who are now in favor of legalizing marijuana. that would be a record high. i love the opportunity to use these often. the new survey came from gallup and found those in the midwest and the west are most likely to support legalization. and i'm sure you can get a pair of glasses just like these. the number on that, $6.50 a pair. in arizona today, herman cain became the latest candidate to visit with sheriff joe arpaio. now, he's the man who fought for arizona's strict immigration law. you see him there with michele bachmann earlier today. it was cain who raised eyebrows over the weekend about what we should do about the immigration problem. >> when i'm president, we'll have a fence, 20 feet high, it will have barbed wire on the top, and it will be electrified. and there'll be a sign on the other side that says, "it will kill you." >> cain later said that he was joking, but it's obvious that the frustration with illegal immigration in america is very real. david frum joins us from washington. jamal simmons is a democratic strategist also coming from washington tonight. david, i wanted to start with you tonight, and just show you, i guess, this issue of the fence. let's talk about who's for the fence or against the fence. it's actually interesting that every republican with the exception of rick perry has said that they support a fence along the 2,000-mile border. does that make sense? >> i'm someone who strongly supports stricter enforcement of the immigration laws, and i say that as someone who was born in canada and migrated to the united states. the fence is the most expensive, slowest, and least effective way to do it. if you want to enforce the immigration laws, what you do, every state requires every employer to check the status of employees through the federal e-verify system with really harsh fines if you violate it. right now, if you violate the clean water act, it's not an excuse to say, "i didn't know," but under the immigration system, it is an excuse to say i didn't know. under the clean water act, the fines are heavy, under the immigration law, they are not. many states have a requirement, if all did, it would make a big impression by taking away the incentive to migrate illegally. but a fence, we built a fence on the border of mexico between tijuana and san diego. it runs i think about 11 miles. it took a decade to build because of all the litigation. there are wetlands in the rio grande. there's going to be litigation. it will take a century of lawsuits. and by then, everybody will have moved who wanted to move. use e-verify, the fence is just a gimmick, it won't work, it's just too slow. >> modern day hadran's mall. >> it's hispanic immigration reform. people aren't complaining about canadian nurses coming across the border to work in michigan. >> that's true, i was going to call david out on that. but i lit him get away with it. >> or eastern european waitresses working in bars. we're worried about mexican americans, hondurans, other coming across the border. we talk about that fence, some estimates have it at $4 million per mile for a 2,000-mile fence, which is about $8 billion, for -- and by the way, we're not even having a lot of immigration come across right now because our economy is doing so poorly. the immigration trickle has really slowed. so we don't need to start spending $8 billion on something when we can do something much better with it. >> one thing we boiled it down to in terms of position on immigration, was the fence. the other idea was this whole idea of a path to citizenship, which becomes a little dicier. and the candidates have danced around it a little bit. but pretty much, none of them have come out vocally in favor of a path to citizenship for any of the 11 million illegal immigrants already in the country. is that pretty much political posturing? practically, we all know, a lot of those people aren't going to leave. >> i think, by the way, the candidates who oppose the so-called path to citizenship are completely correct. because to propose such an inducement at a time when the enforcement is not yet effective is to invite more of the problem. i think we need to take seriously why people are concerned about this. immigration is one of those issues that creates winners and losers. the three of us on the show were winners. probably everybody watching this show tonight is a winner. all the costs of immigration fall on the bottom third of society. every economic study shows it's a wash. the cost and benefits net out at almost zero/zero. and that's -- the people on the bottom are not well represented by our political system. don't tell them they are wrong, that because the fence is a bad idea. don't tell them they are wrong to be concerned. they are right to be concerned. give them a better answer. and effective enforcement at the workplace is that answer. >> jamal, will the president be able to avoid this issue? especially on this whole path to citizenship, which he had sort of addressed a while back. but i'm wondering whether you think it's smart for him or will he even be able to avoid going there again? >> the president's got an interesting case to make. he has more security -- he's done more to secure the border than george bush had done at this point. he's already deported about 1 million mexican illegal aliens or unauthorized citizens, unauthorized immigrants to come across the border. he's already gotten rid of 1.5 million -- 1 million. george bush did 1.5. at the same time, the president's got to be focused on a comprehensive solution that does have this pathway to citizenship. one study by the center for american progress says that we could have $1.5 trillion in economic growth if we legalized these unauthorized immigrants. at the same time, we could have about maybe $4 billion to $5 billion in more tax payments over the next three years if we legalized them. so we have to be really clear that for those people who are concerned about the deficits, that we may actually have one additional solution, which is bringing people into the fold, getting them in the system, and getting those tax payments into the treasury. >> well, jamal, david, thanks very much. and viewers, please let us know what you think about jamal's idea of legalization and getting more tax dollars. we want you to be a part of the conversation ahead of our vegas debate tomorrow. and still out front, herman cain imagines he'll be elected president. but he may not be the only one. we can't resist looking at his performance. plus, baby lisa's mother was drunk when she said her baby disappeared. we go