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i'm eric burnett. "outfront" tonight, how much will it cost to bail out europe? >> $1 million. >> just like dr. evil in "austin powers," that's not enough. >> $100 billion. >> nope. even a super villain would not ask for a number this big. the final number to bail out europe could be closer to $6 trillion. so take a deep breath. i'll get to the grand total in just a moment. because just days ahead of those crucial greek elections, spain asked for $125 billion to bail out its banks. and that's just the beginning because spain is only one of several european countries lining up for more money. spain, portugal, ireland, greece, already have asked for $615.5 billion. but does it add up to enough to save them and us from more economic calamity? sources tell "outfront," not even close. one of our most reliable sources says that all estimates to date on how much this is going to cost have been wrong. he warns about a domino effect, most notably on france and says we're not even close to stabilization. desmond lockman of the europe needs about 1.2 trillion jut to bail out spain and italy. john malden, heavily followed by traders on wall street, says the amount needed could be $5 trillion or $6.2 trillion. i thought $6 trillion was enough. but a hundred billion at that point is just rounding, right? that's about eight t.a.r.p.s. it may not even be enough to save europe because it all requires the help of the united states and the u.s. fed. and, yes, the imf, u.s. taxpayers. this is all central to us and how much money we will pay. what happens if europe breaks apart? this means the break-up of the world's biggest economy and our biggest trading partner, it means tens of thousands of american jobs gone. "outfront" tonight is pimco founder and cio bill gross, one of the largest investors of retirement money in this country, and someone who knows a lot about this. bill, let's start with this issue of it's been sort of band-aid after band-aid. when are we going to know how much this is really going to cost? >> you know, erin, i don't think we'll ever know. it's been an ad hoc approach, as you suggest. up until this point, euroland through its central bank, which is the ecb, basically has written about $2 trillion worth of checks, about the same amount, by the way, as our fed has written. how much more do we need? is it the $6 trillion that one of your viewers suggests? i'm not so sure it's that much. but it's a lot of money. it probably amounts to trillions of dollars when you include not only spain, italy and as you mentioned france as well. >> and france is a big issue. i think a lot of people watching the show say, i've heard about greece and spain. i think i've heard about italy. but france? >> well, france is not teetering but it's certainly not growing. it's in a small recession. as it turns out, greece was really sort of a trojan horse, not that the election on saturday doesn't matter. it does. but spain is the real deal. spain is the tenth largest economy in the world. it's got a gdp of about $1.5 trillion. that's about a tenth of what ours is, but very big. to the extent that spain goes downhill, they have 25% unemployment. imagine. that's like the 1930s in the united states. to the extent that they continue in a depression, then, yes, the spanish plight becomes the plight of italy as well as spain and france. >> what are the risks in your view? you're someone who's put money in this, and asked every day to make a decision whether you're going to put pension money from americans into these economies. would you do it right now? or is it in your view sort of whether it's down the road or soon, europe's going to break up? >> i wouldn't do it. and we haven't done it. pimco's been out of euroland basically with the exception of germany and france for about a year and a half or two years. i think what euroland needs, what they want, what these measures are trying to do is to entice private investors such as pimco, china and associated agencies back into the market, so to speak. will they do it at 6% to 7% yield? i don't think that's enough relative to the risk. and so it will be up to the ecb, again, their federal reverse, to continue to write checks. and that might amount to hundreds of billions and perhaps, as you suggest, trillions of dollars. >> bill, today "the wall street journal" had a survey saying the top issue for americans who are getting ready to retire was europe. there were three issues up there and europe was one of them. what could the u.s. be on hold for? the fed is intimately involved in all sorts of ways of providing easy money to europe. but how much money could the u.s. be on the hook for? i know it's a hard question because you don't know how much europe is going to need. but this is the crucial question for taxpayers. >> well, three ways of involvement, really. the u.s. banks and there it's a small proportion. secondly, the imf, we participate significantly in the imf, although i don't expect the u.s. to allow the imf to make loans to spain and to associated countries from this point forward. and third, there are swap lines from the federal reverse that have been used and continue to be used. so there is some liability from the standpoint of the united states. but i don't think it's significant. what's really significant is the effect on u.s. economic growth. we're slowing. we're at 2%. we might move down to 1%. if spain basically continues on its path, then we might approach the 0% level, which ultimately is the worst effect of this particular crisis. >> bill gross, thank you very much. we appreciate your taking the time. as bill said, imf may not help from this point forward. up till now, they've provided incredible loans to countries including portugal and greece and ireland. up next, breaking news, the department of justice suing the state of florida accusing florida of not allowing a certain group of people to vote. and a nasty family feud in the kennedy dynasty. details leaking out in a tale of lies and tragedy. and a drug linked to zombie of like attacks. an undercover agent out front to tell us the horror he saw. you inspired a ron howard production. with your photographs. 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[ female announcer ] neosporin® plus pain relief starts relieving pain faster and kills more types of infectious bacteria. neosporin® plus pain relief. for a two dollar coupon, visit neosporin.com. but when i was diagnosed with prostate cancer... i needed a coach. our doctor was great, but with so many tough decisions i felt lost. unitedhealthcare offered us a specially trained rn who helped us weigh and understand all our options. for me cancer was as scary as a fastball is to some of these kids. but my coach had hit that pitch before. turning data into useful answers. we're 78,000 people looking out for 70 million americans. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare. our second story "outfront," the u.s. government and the state of florida are suing each other over florida's controversial voter purge plan. the storm has been brewing for a while. republican governor rick scott pushed for the purge saying he wanted to reduce voter fraud. opponents say it will unfairly racially target, targeting minorities and the poor. john avlon, roland martin are with us. i know you don't like this idea. i don't understand when someone goes to the polls and you're a citizen, could you prove you're a citizen right there and this could eliminate the problem? >> no. the reality is when i go to the polls, i bring my voter registration card and have a driver's license if i need that. the real issue here is that you have clerks, supervisors, election supervisors who told the state, hey, this list has problems. let's not move forward with it. they also waited far too late to push it forward. the d.o.j.'s job is to protect the voting rights of people. florida screwed up and the government needs to admit it. >> they're doing this too close to the primary -- >> absolutely, that's the problem. >> is there another way to accomplish this, to have people who are citizens be the ones voting without racially targeting certain groups of minorities and people who are lower income? >> there's been a big controversy across many states, not just in the american south but particularly in the american south regarding voter ids. that is, do we provide a more secure system of voter identification to make sure the people who are showing up at the polls are in fact the people they claim to be? look, the vast majority of the time, there is nothing untoward happening, no fraud happening, et cetera. but there is anxiety about a small handful of cases. that's one reason why you have this reaction. including the state government of florida. i think that it's entirely possible that you have to have a give and take here. the justice department is totally right and appropriate to be seeing to it that, hey, florida's not overstepping its bounds. on the other hand, there are also natural mechanisms in the states themselves which will check excessive behavior. so i think it remains to be seen whether or not this is the right decision. but i do think, you don't want to go about this sloppily, you want to make sure this is done in a deliberate manner. >> but the only take is dueling lawsuits between the government and the state of florida. >> yes. >> there's a legacy of people being denied their franchise. you have some people saying, look, we've had dead people vote before. there's clearly a problem in some of our rolls. but when you get a world war ii veteran, such as happened in this particular purge, being told he's not a citizen, you have to come to a tribunal to prove it, you have a problem. right now, this is all coming to a head. >> i want to give you an actual fact. you heard a small number of voters -- a report said that here we have the evidence of voter fraud. they brought forth about 300 cases in the entire country in ten years. so this is what we call a solution in search of a problem. so when you hear there's a small number, it is a small number. but it goes beyond just the issue of voter id. the outlawing of voting on sundays, when it comes to early voting. the whole issue in ohio, they passed a law to say, if you're a poll worker, you don't have to tell somebody what their correct voting location is, if you don't want to. it's simply voluntary. >> are you trying to say that people who aren't citizens aren't really trying to vote? if you can only come up with 300 around the country, it's not really a problem. >> what i'm saying is, when you hear people say, massive voter fraud, they can't even prove it. the republican lawyers found 300 in ten years. >> clearly dead people should never vote. >> oh, duh! i get protecting the voter rolls. but give me a break. it's not like all of a sudden they found 30, 40, 50, 100,000 people. >> make it difficult to register folks raises legitimate concerns. you have another face-off -- >> do you have a problem when you go to get a voter registration card -- with having to prove citizenship? >> you don't have to. according to the law, if you choose to vote absentee, you don't need a voter id. when they say it's to protect the vote, that's only if you show up at the poll. so you can still, right now -- >> that's absurd -- >> vote absentee and not get a voter i.d. >> but would you agree in all cases that you would need to prove citizenship at some point and some way? >> i certainly believe approving citizenship, the problem is when you are targeting 180,000 is overwhelmingly a certain group of people -- >> it is overwhelming. >> we understand the impact when you're able to suppress the vote. >> within 90 days of the primary, too. that's the thing, the clock's ticking. >> what about this? it's not as if roland is saying, you shouldn't have to prove it. he's saying the way they're going about it isn't the right way. >> i'd love to see a compromise proposal. let's think about moving the voting day from tuesday to sunday, and let's agree that we need some rock solid, iron clad vider i.d. laws. and let's shift the efforts to say, let's be sure that members of marginalized communities are able to get them. that would be a great compromise proposal. and it's silly to have voting on tuesdays, a day when most people have to go to work. >> it's very hard to work on to vote on tuesday. >> it's ridiculous. and then in florida, their rationale for not allowing early voting on sunday is because people need time to count the ballots. it's too short of a time, they vote on sunday before the election. it's nonsense. in maine, the republican legislature outlawed same-day registration. people didn't ask for it. they simply outlawed it. the people had to go back to the polls, overturn that decision. this has been a clear effort in 36 states to change what's going on here, and i'm saying, look -- i didn't ask my republican friends, give me one example of the expanding access to the ballot. not one person can give me that. that tells me you're not trying to expand access, you're trying to limit access. >> you want it to be broader access and more people who don't have the education or the ability to easily read, it's people intimidated by the process already. >> well, i think when you're talking about expanding access, one of the largest groups that is denied access in many states includes ex-offenders. unfortunately, this is a group where it's controversial for democrats and republicans to talk openly about the fact that you have hundreds of thousands of americans who by virtue of having served a prison sentence are no longer able to exercise the franchise. i think that legitimately is a concern. it's a controversial issue. but i think that -- i'm sorry? >> it's one of many. i love it when you come up with a centrist solution. we should be lowering the barriers. let's move towards letting more people vote and making sure it's all honest. >> when jeb bush was governor allowed them to vote. rick scott overturned what jeb bush did. >> thanks to all. appreciate it. let us know what you think. still out front, it costs more and has fewer features? is apple's new computer worth it? and day one of the jerry sandusky trial. sexually graphic testimony, and talk of the former penn state coach taking the stand. our paul callan is next. 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[ male announcer ] new bengay zero degrees. playing sports is just my whole life. looking back if it wasn't for shriners hospital, things would just be really, really different. i lost my leg when i was a kid. there was a time when i felt like i wasn't going to be able to walk again... it was a pretty bad accident but shriners showed me who i could be again. they turned my whole life around. hunter's life is one of nearly a million changed by donations from people like you. send your love to the rescue. donate today. our third story out front, former penn state football coach jerry sandusky charged with child rape may take the stand in his own defense. his lawyer hinted at the possibility after today's dramatic and graphic testimony from one of his alleged victims. the first witness said that sandusky treated him like his girlfriend and sent him love letters, one of which read, i know i may have made my share of mistakes. however, i hope that i will be able to say that i cared. there has been love in my heart. my wish is that you care and that you have love in your heart. the defense filed a motion stating that sandusky suffers from a psychological condition that may explain his behavior, including that letter. sandusky acknowledged showering and horsing around with boys, but has denied being sexually attracted to them. paul callan, what was your reaction to the testimony today. that was a chilling letter just to read the excerpt. we did get quite a few graphic details from this first -- now man. >> it was an amazing day in terms of testimony in court. this case is moving at break-neck speed. the jury was basically picked in about two days. and now prosecutors put victim number 4 on the witness stand who gave unbelievably graphic testimony. it spread out over a period of years. it involved sandusky not only engaging in these showers, soap battles as they were described. but eventually oral sex and other things on numerous, numerous occasions. and then culminating with the love letter as prosecutors are going to characterize it. >> why start with victim number four, because they think he is the strongest? what would be the strategy for that? >> prosecutors traditionally start strong and finish strong. so of the eight victims who are going -- alleged victims who are going to testify, they must have thought that victim number four had some of the most compelling testimony? and he certainly did. there was a lot of detail and there was a lot to move the jury in that first day. >> it was moving and very sad. the defense has filed this motion that he has a psychological problem called histrionic personality disorder. which they say could account for what he did, and that letter. what is it? >> this tops all. histrionic personality disorder is something that women suffer from by a four to one ratio as compared to men. it's basically a disorder that involves you in intengs attention-seeking behavior. there's nothing in it that has to do with pedophilia or anything else. they say sandusky acts inappropriately to get attention. so that's why he did this. >> but with children, it doesn't make any -- >> well, not only that, it's not a defense. this is not insanity. criminals throughout the united states have personality disorders. that doesn't make them innocent of the crime. you have to be insane to be innocent of the crime. >> right. >> this is just an excuse, it's not a defense. >> especially since they're pleading not guilty, not giving excuses for the behavior. i'm not a lawyer, but that seems like your case isn't very good. >> i'm betting the judge won't allow testimony about this disorder to come into evidence. >> his lawyer indicated something that he could take the stand. should he? will he? >> he said, you will hear from jerry, jerry will say -- he said it repeatedly in his opening statement, amendola. suggesting he'll take the stand. i don't think it's going to take the stand. amendola will play videotapes of him telling his story. he knows the prosecutor's going to do that, that's how he's ultimately going to say to the jury, you heard jerry say. i'd be shocked if he takes the stand. you could imagine the cross-examination he'll be subjected to. >> paul callan, appreciate it. still coming, are lawmakers working on a secret deal to avoid the fiscal cliff? that means a big tax cut? and we take you inside the world of the drug linked to zombie-like attacks. an undercover drug agent "outfr