you said it was what the american people needed to have that romney care given to them as you head had in massachusetts, then in your paper back, you took that line out. so speaking of not getting it straight in your book, sir that would be a good one for you. >> one of the most unique features of tonight's debate was the ninth man on the stage, former new mexico governor gary johnson's poll numbers so minuscule, he has not been included in previous debates. >> i do bring a unique perspective for this stage. i started a one-man handyman business in albaer can chill 1974 and grew it to over 1,000 employ yishlgs i have run for two political offices in my life, governor of new mexico and re-election. i promise to submit a balanced budget to congress in the year 2013. i promise to veto legislation where expenditures exceed revenue. >> our cnn political correspondent jim acosta is in orlando for us tonight. you know, i'm of the so thrown by the audience reaction and i know it's different when you're there than when you're watching on television. was there an obvious winner or loser or someone the crowd was with tonight, jim? >> well, i think if there's somebody that the crowd was not with tonight, it was probably rick perry, candy. at one point, the governor from texas said this felt like a game of bad mint, at times during this debate, it was really one against eight, all going after him. on the subject of that law in texas that gives in-state tuition to the children of illegal immigrants, perry actually defended the law once again and said it was a state issue and he defends the law and he drew some boos at that point when he said that. so, that was probably not a good moment for rick perry there. i have to say that i think the line of the night, you just mentioned gary johnson, a good thing he finally snuck into one of these debate, when need line about his two dogs, his neighbor's two dogs having done more for shovel-ready jobs than the president of the united states, that was probably the line of the night. that one really hit it out of the park. >> yeah. he got right into the spirit of things, it seemed. let me just -- since you brought it up, let me play for our audience romney, former massachusetts governor romney going after governor perry on the whole issue of in-state tuition for children of illegal immigrants. >> i feel pretty normal getting criticized by these folks but the fact of the matter is this. there is nobody on this stage who has spent more time working on border security than i have. out of 181 members of the texas legislature, when this issue came up, only four dissenting votes. this was a state issue. texans voted on it and i still support it greatly. >> so, jim, in terms of the pure substance of it, it seems immigration, went into it in more depth, was there anything new and substantive you thought came out of this that we didn't know before? >> well, i think that was -- i think that was one big issue. the immigration issue and one that dogs governor perry mainly because it is the one where he is so far apart from the rest of the field. you know, he is going to have to explain this probably time and again at these debates. you know, governor romney, you know, he was challenged on the issue of his health care law back in massachusetts that, you know, some republicans called the father of obamney care. tried to go after mitt romney near the end of this debate and one point said mitt romney supported obama care and just a clear moment when rick perry did not have his facts together. that was an inaccurate statement. so you know, more than getting to the substance of the issues, what we saw tonight was a bad night for rick perry, really stumbled through a lot of moments in this debate, it is possible it is probably probable that the audience picked up noon, candy. >> jim acosta in orlando tonight. thanks so much, jim. former texas congressman dick armey is a key leader in the tea party mom. . give us your overall impression how you think tonight went. >> of course, as an activist in this movement nope as the tea party movement, grassroots activism for constitutional -- on government, my biggest impression that was it was so interesting that our folks had framed the narrative and debate for the previous election and they pretty well have captured the narrative on this election. virtually everybody on the same is playing out of the song book. the government is too big, too sloppy, time thor fearing, too wasteful and too much of a bound on the private sector of the economy and we have got to bring down the size of government. the reform of tax code reflect truth county of government and make it a more equitiablable ta code. >> play you the new member of the bunch, the former governor of new mexico did get into step, the tea party movement talking about the kinds of changes he would make should he become president. take a listen to this. i'm promising to submit a balanced budget to congress in the year 2013. that's 43% reduction in federal spending. i am going to prom moyse noise advocate the abolishment of the federal department of education. >> now, that has been something that has come up in republican campaigns in the past. do you think looking at the totality of tonight's debate, someone who is an independent voter would come away thinking that there were some harsh edge to the republican party because that's what the criticism was before when people would bring up the whole idea of we need to shut down this, we need to shutdown the department of education? >> well, actually, what i was surprised by was the degree to which all the people on the platform were willing to talk about that. you know, republicans understand that one of our first duties as parents in this country is the education of our churildren. we think of it as a severe obligation and we feel the severe burden than comes to the nation when education fail ours children so much. we see a direct correlation between the failing of our national educational system and the greater involvement of the federal government. so, i think you have to put it in perhaps a little bit more supportive terms of the fact that we love our children, want them properly educated and we are fearful of the degree to which increased federal government has deteriorated the education. the fact is though it is been openly discussed in a way i haven't seen for several years. we have sort of gotten past the political correctness police and talking about the big issue of an extremely important imperative duty of every nation which is the education of its children to do that right and properly and i was impressed that every one of these people on this dais were willing to talk about that and very critical terms of the deterioration to education has been brought by the federal government. >> congressman, let me ask you you quickly, could you pick me a which were and a loser tonight? >> well, actually, to my way of thinking, the nation is wing because for the first chance in a long time, we signal of hope and change we can believe in. the great fear of most americans is what president obama with his whimsical, row man the inc.,ic redisstrib bugs obsession will bring to this country and we see here a whole dais of people, any one of whom would probably beat this president, all of whom understand our need to get a hammed to on this government. >> let me bring in kevin mann. he worked for the romney campaign in 2008. i weren't to play you something your former boss said tonight, tuition help on illegal immigrants when he was going after governor perry. >> you see how it is that a state like texas to go to the university of texas if you are an illegal alien, you get an in-state tuition discount. you know how much that is? it is $22,000 a year, four years of college, almost $100,000 discount if you are an illegal alien to go to the university of texas. if you are a united states citizen, from any one of the other 49 states, you have to pay $100,000 more. >> is this issue of the in-state tuition that governor perry approved of for illegal immigrants a soft spot for perry, kevin? >> it is a very soft spot. i think that the position that governor romney clearly state and other candidates clearly stated, is a consensus issue, not be giving breaks to people here who have broken the law and those types of policies, the type of policies that governor perry advocated for texas, they created the sanctuary city, they created -- i'm sorry, magnets for illegal immigration to get worse and it is a big problem and one where we are trying to secure the border, can't have those type of incentives for people to break the law and come across our border. so i think governor perry has found himself very much out of the main stream on this particular issue with the republican party as well as with a lot of independent voters and many democrats who think it is not the right policy. >> do you think that your former boss, mitt romney, has been able to get past the whole issue of obamney care, used to call it the idea that health care in massachusetts, that he presided over, put nothing place, so very much like the president's health care program that republican, many republicans can't stand in do you think he is past that? to me, it seems to come up in every debate we have seen. >> health care will come up in every debate, as it should it is a very important issue. i think what is very important with governor romney's progression through this campaign, he has made it very clear yes differs with president obama and why he thinks obama care is wrong why it is not the right remedy, as well as the simple fact he would, on his first day as president, issue an executive order that would allow states to on thipt-out of the one-size-fits-all distinction t is something romney has said over and over. they see he agrees with a large part of the particular praben electorate that disagrees to obama care and a very specific plan what he would do, how woe remedy the ills of to obama care going forward and also a are really important issue for him hurricane the one that speaks to his values on health care, how you get costs down, how you increase access and how it is that we maintain the quality of care. i think those are important issues also going to help had him in the general election. >> i want to thank you so much, kevin madden, former aide to mitt romney and former congressman dick armey, thank you, too, for your help tonight. coming up next, syria and a new threat seen there by the ambassador. care. ambassador. care. ambassador. 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[ male announcer ] ask your doctor if cialis for daily use is right for you. for a 30-tablet free trial offer, go to cialis.com. harsh words today about a country that's supposed to be a u.s. ally in the war on terrorism. the chairman of the u.s. joint chiefs of staff today accused pakistan of exporting violence to afghanistan. admiral mike mullen says a pakistani-based terror group, as well as the country's powerful intelligence agency, are behind some recent high-profile attacks on u.s. and nato targets. >> the haqqani network acts as a veritable arm of pakistan's internal services intelligence agency. with isi support, haqqani operatives planned and conducted that truck bomb attack as well as the assault on our embassy. >> pakistan denies its intelligence agency supports the haqqani network, but after the u.s. found osama bin laden hiding there, can pakistan be trusted at all? let's ask former state department official nicholas burns, who's now a harvard professor. and zami khalil azad, a former ambassador to pakistan. nick, we also know from some reporting from barbara starr that the u.s. has stepped up its drone attacks into pakistan against the network. we've had this discussion before, but this seems at a kind of higher intensity right now between the u.s. and pakistan. where is that relationship right now? >> i think the relationship, candy, is at its lowest point in many, many years. this was an extraordinary and very significant statement by admiral mullen today. in the past, american officials had insinuated that pakistan was ineffective in dealing with terrorist groups on its soil, sometimes saying they might have some involvement, but to say it's a veritable arm of the haqqani pakistani intelligence is a very dramatic statement and it poses a very complex dilemma for the united states that the ambassador and i had to deal with when we were in government. that is that we know the pakistanis have not been on our side fundamentally in this fight against terrorism, and yet we know that they're also a key factor in the eventual resolution of the afghan war. so, that's the dilemma. do you cut off aid to pakistan or do you stay with the pakistanis, hope for the best and hope you can encourage them to do a lot better in the fight against terrorism. >> ambassador, i'm assuming that you probably agree with nick that this seems very racheted up. and i just wonder if you could answer that question, how do you deal with this, because not only is pakistan important, or we were told it was important in the fight against terror, but it's got a lot of weapons that we would rather not have in the hands of a non-friendly country. >> you're right. pakistan has been, as nick implied, both a friend and adversary at the same time. when we think about pakistani nuclear weapons, we think about the supplies that we need for our troops from afghanistan coming across the border, and when we think about al qaeda in pakistan, we want to cooperate with them, but when we think about afghanistan, there we have been working at cross-purposes with each other. >> how does this get racheted down? >> i think we need to adjust our approach, in my judgment. and that is, we have been trying to pull away the taliban from pakistan reaching out to them directly, excluding pakistan. i think we need to include pakistan in the diplomatic effort for a settlement of the afghan dispute, but demand that they bring the taliban with them to the negotiating table, and if they don't, then our success and failure will depend on whether we can discipline pakistan and we may have to go to a tougher approach of containing them and increasing much more pressure not only by ourselves but internationally. but that has risks, too. this is what nick said. we are on the horn of a significant dilemma. >> let me move you on to -- speaking of scary, ahmadinejad was at the u.n. today, gave a speech. the u.s., among other countries, walked out. just a brief clip of something he said. >> translator: do these arrogant powers really have the competence and ability to run or govern the world, or is it acceptable that they call themselves as the sole defender of freedom, democracy and human rights while they militarily attack and occupy other countries? >> ambassador, is ahmadinejad just a dangerous blowhard? i mean, what is the point of this kind of rhetoric? >> i think it's, in part, laughable because he's been saying this for so long and he's not the ahmadinejad that he was a few years ago. he's much weaker, less of a factor even in iranian politics now than he was a few years ago. he's trying to get attention, both at home and in the middle east. he's trying to be part of the conversation. i think he was much more dangerous than he is now, but his relevance is also far less in terms of the politics of iran and of the region. >> nick, i want to move you on to something else that caught our eye. talking about robert ford, the u.s. ambassador to syria. he did an interview in "the daily caller" today, part of which i can't read for its language, and he's talking about libyan rebels at this point. i'm sorry, not libyan, syrian rebels. i'm sort of amazed that there are not, fill in the blank, crazy. the street protesters and the street protests organized amaze me for their sheer courage. i don't think americans can really get a grasp on how dangerous this is, to go out on these streets with this army and these thugs. again, he's talking about those rebelling in syria against the syrian government. but nick, this doesn't sound like ambassador language to me. he's almost an anti-ambassador, isn't he? >> well, he's a modern ambassador. he understands that the battle right now in syria is literally to communicate a clear american view of the syrian people to capture some hearts and minds. he's been out visiting people who have been ravaged by the syrian government, who had brothers and husbands killed by the syrian military. he's shown great empathy for the syrian people who are struggling to overthrow the regime, and i know there's some voices in washington, particularly in congress, saying we should bring him home as an expression of our opposition to bashar al alasad. we should keep him there. he's the most effective ambassador we've had in a long, long time because he's out on point telling the truth at a very dramatic time in syrian history. we should be very proud of him. he's a fluent arabic speaker. he's obviously down at the grassroots of syrian society. at a time like this when thousands of people have been killed, when the syrian government has used brute force, we do need an ambassador who will speak frankly and openly and that's what robert ford has done. >> two quick points. one, nick is absolutely right. robert is a great guy. he worked with me in baghdad when i was there. he was very helpful to me. second thing is what happens in syria is extremely important, because this is the second most important country to egypt in terms of the potential for change and its impact. and if syria can change potential focus on iran, this will have a huge geopolitical effect. therefore, i am an advocate of us looking at ways and means to assist the syrians. the iranians were lucky when the revolution happened, the arab spring had not happened and the world did not assist as much as it did with regard to egypt or with libya and so on. so, syria is extremely important and i applaudm as nick did, ambassador ford. >> two thumbs up for ambassador ford. thank you so much, ambassador khalilzad, nick burns, thank you both for your insight. ahead, she spent a whopping $140 million of her own money on a failed bid for governor but today, she landed a new gig. in here, pets never get lost. ♪ in here, every continent fits in one room. it was fun, we played football outside. why are you sitting in the dark? 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