writing with fire. shatner. >> and the greatest moment of his life. what's been the single greatest moment of your life? >> doing "piers morgan" interview. >> well, obviously. this is "piers morgan tonight." ♪ william, shatner, welcome. i don't want to shock you. >> woke me up. >> do you know i look at you. somebody said to me, you're 80 years old. >> somebody said to me, you're 40. that's -- >> 46, actually. either way. you don't look 80. you shouldn't be 80. >> i don't feel 80 and i don't know how to deal with that. i don't know how to deal with being 80. >> judging by this book, quite miserably. you don't want to be old and 80 and facing death, do you? >> no. as you've already read in the book, i describe getting my 80th birthday getting up and not wanting to get up and realizing that i had to get up because it could all end right now. >> you have been through this before because you talk about your 40th birthday where you lay in bed for days on end. >> did you not feel, 40, what have i done? what shall transpire? >> yes, but, you've done a lot. that's the point. that's what i don't understand. >> that's relative. done what? >> made some of the biggest -- >> i don't know what dark matter is. >> dark matter? >> that's pushing the universe. expanding the universe. >> why do you need to know? >> that could be the mystery of life. >> do you want to find out the answer of life? >> i'm intrigued. i have palpitations of wondering -- what's going to happen? what is going to happen when we die? >> do you fear death? >> i'm in torment. i'm in terror. i'm terrified. i envy the people -- well, got my name in the golden book and i'm going to be entered in to the pearly gates. >> what do you hope happens? >> that this continues. can't i go on? make a record here and there. write a book now and then. say hello to my wife in the morning would be great. >> are you ever happy? you have worked unbelievably hard your entire life. you don't need the money. you don't need the success. you have had every success imaginable. what drives you? why do you still put yourself through this? >> piers, if you were given the opportunity to have a great interview, a great interview, but you're sick an you're tired and you're -- wouldn't you get up out of bed? >> yeah. >> and make it? they would say, well, we'll have anderson do it. and you'd say, no. >> dear god. >> dear god. >> even if i was dead i'd gut out of the coffin. >> a wrap and then slowly emerge and you come out. i'm going to do that interview. i'm going to do that record: i have to play that part. write that book. i have to ride those horses. got to. >> why? why do you have to? >> what will happen if i don't? >> you might -- you might be able to relax. >> relax and do what? >> spend more time with your horses. >> i've got ride my horses. in between this whole routine, i'm doing publicity for the book and the record and then a one-man show and touring canada and in between winnipeg and toronto i fly back to los angeles to ride in a reining show for three days. and then after i finish the tour, two days later i'm in kansas city riding in another group of horses in another -- >> this is the stuff of madness, william. >> is it? >> i think so. >> no. it leads -- >> does it keep you a young man? you do not look 80. if you said you're 60, i'd believe it. >> i look 60? >> i think so. i've had people in here who ought to look 670 and thanks to surgery look about 108. so you're doing it the right way. obviously worked. the vitality is clear in you. >> it is -- >> a way to approach. >> what a fortunate confluence of luck and dna. luck that the health is perfect and the dna that must have come from strong background and nothing's bothering me. that's lucky. and energy is the key to everything that we're talking about. energy is the key to creativity. energy's the key to love. if you're not healthy and feel good, loving is very difficult to do. >> very true. >> and that's the key. >> you've been acting for six, seven decades. you've been singing for all of that time, as well. you've been making hilarious commercials. you've done all sorts of stuff. what is the one thing if you're completely honest that you enjoy above everything else that you've ever done? >> i like making people laugh. making people laugh is a joyful occupation. first of all, the invention of the joke itself is a crafting art. a good joke about -- has to have commentary, as well, whether it's a human condition or the political condition, whatever it is, a joke makes you laugh at the thing that's scathing usually. a great joke is a work of art. to be able to deliver that joke, to have the sense of comedy and the delicate timing that it takes to extract the most from that laugh is also an art form. imagine creating a joke and be able to deliver the joke like stand-up comics. >> did you like stand-up comedy? >> i wish -- well, i do a form of it with enough good material but -- and i take the material out of my life but what i think of as stand-up material is george carlin, for example. pithy and right there. i think i take too long to get to the laugh. >> your comedy, a lot of it now comes from television and people laughing a long time after you tape this stuff. do you not fancy -- if comedy gets you going, do you not fancy taking the ultimate risk and going on a stand-up tour? >> i am basically. and the one-man show called "how time flies." i mean the opening joke is have your cake and my mother's whole thing is -- >> i love this story. i love this story. this is why your book. i tore it out. i loved it so much. your mother, god bless her, had this wonderful thing where she would go to any restaurant often with the entire family and say it's her birthday and then you would all get masses amounts of cake. >> well, no. one piece. >> one piece. >> but never her birthday. >> no. it was her birthday once that year. and then she would go to a restaurant with all of us there. >> i love this. >> it's my birthday and the waiters come out an sing happy birthday to you. thank you very much. in the beginning we sang happy birthday, mother. and then after a while, we wouldn't sing happy birthday and the waiters got annoyed and upset and the may tremendous d once on the phone said, i'm telling you, shatner hates his mother. >> what does she teach you, your mother? >> what does she what? >> what did she teach you about life? >> my mother was an exuberant, silly lady and that silliness which in her part was a little overboard for the silliness. you need to be silly to be funny but you can't be too silly. on the other hand, depending on what kind of comedy it is, slapstick is silly but slapstick is like the slipping -- the por ten shouse man slipping on the banana peel. it's funny and cruel and observant but that's slapstick, outrageous. you throttle all that back, you have drawing room comedy. and somebody's drops a cup of tea. i mean, it's all related. >> so you have always i think brilliantly been able to laugh at yourself without ever crossing that line where it becomes a bit ridiculous. you've managed to straddle that divide. >> that's the key. you're working without a net and without an audience if -- but laughing at yourself, the whole irony of life, the fact we're here talking about me and the midst of all this chaos, is a bit of a joke. and so it should take its rightful place in the -- >> what's the best william shatner joke you've ever heard? >> i'm such -- i'm terrible at jokes. i can't remember them. i can't -- >> what was the one from your roast most offensive and yet funny? >> oh, the roast was -- oh, well. this actor george decay was given the line that was the line. i rode in on a horse at my roast and the obvious line is screw you. f you and the horse you rode in on. right? george likes me so much that when he said it, screw you -- >> he meant it. >> it wasn't funny at all. holy cats, george. you know? take it easy. >> we'll come back to that and your relationship with your "star trek" colleagues because that's very amusing in this book. we'll come back to this, your list of questions you asked "star trek" con vengs because you have had to answer these things so bloody often. you have every answer in the book. in need to ask you anymore "star trek" questions. leonard, definitely. the other four, not so much. so who ordered the cereal that can help lower cholesterol and who ordered the yummy cereal? yummy. [ woman ] lower cholesterol. [ man 2 ] yummy. i got that wrong didn't i? 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>> no, i didn't. i nearly did. >> why didn't you? >> i should have done. >> why didn't you? >> i would have done. >> why didn't you? >> i just don't think they ever had one in my neck of the woods, a little sleepy village in the south of england. but i loved "star trek." and i used to just crave "star trek." >> you know why? >> captain kirk was like my idol. why? >> it's part of the myth. >> what is the myth? >> joseph campbell. everybody needs a myth. every culture needs a myth. the myth is this promised land of "star trek." the heroes are the captains who played the starship. the ritual is going to a convention. partaking with the autograph and the buying of the various -- >> are you absolutely sick of it? >> no, i'm not sick of it. >> really? >> really. to me it's like a cape that -- following me. how'd the king get to be current -- or was it the queen that was wearing the long -- i mean, someone's got to be lifting it. it's there. it's behind me. it's part of what -- it's why i'm here essentially. maybe. and -- >> do you worry that when you finally leave us the headline will be captain kirk dies, age 176? whatever they can preserve you to. >> no. no. i don't care. you know, i say to other actors, kelly, gene kelly was a great dancer, and they say who? fred astaire. what? nothing is -- it's so ephemeral. it's so airy. >> is it, do you think? >> it disappears. >> do you not worry about your legacy? >> no. my legacy is my wife and my children and my grandchildren. >> you had an extraordinary groundbreaking moment when i interviewed michelle nichols about this when she came on the show. you had the first interracial kiss ever shown on u.s. television. did you realize at that moment how significant that was going to be? >> not really. although we'd heard rumors that the southern stations -- some southern stations might cut it out. the context of that kiss is i'm being forced to do it by the alien. so it wasn't like i was falling in love and ravishing this beautiful woman whose skin was darker than mine. it was i'm being forced as the -- as her boss to kiss her. subsequently, people talk about it, and i think, well, i guess it was important. but no, no. all those things -- anything you think is important now, we just brushed off back then because in the hurly-burly of making the series -- >> your co-stars from "star trek," with the exception of leonard nimoy, spock, who i know you remain good friends with, the rest of you -- well, not you, actually. they all seem to have a massive problem with you. >> because they're trying to sell a book -- >> is that all it's about? >> as far as i'm concerned. >> when in doubt, whack captain kirk? >> yeah. why not? everybody else does. >> were you surprised they all started piling in, he stole all my great scenes, he nicked my best lines? >> they didn't have great scenes. they didn't have good lines. there was nothing to nick. but i was shocked. i was interviewing. one of them. and i said, well, thank you. great interview. good night. they said, well, wait a minute, don't you want to know how much we despise you? what are you talking about? i thought i was loved. >> do you care? >> i care that somebody in this world dislikes me. and i care that the enmity has carried over to the point of where we're talking about it. it's absolute nonsense. i mean, we're going to die. go out the way you came in, with a little innocence. you know? it's ridiculous. >> how has leonard managed to avoid despising you? >> he doesn't know me very well. >> and presumably because he also got a lot of good lines. >> he might secretly. >> are you good friends with him? >> absolutely. i think he's an admirable man and a great human being. >> when you walk into a trekkie convention, i mean, this must be like -- this is like the president -- >> 15,000 people. >> going crazy. >> going crazy. and, piers, you don't know -- you're in front of them and you don't know what you're going to say next. how about that for balancing -- 15,000 people and you're in the actor's nightmare. >> do you have an opening line? >> my mother ate cake. no. what would you like to know? or i might say -- >> do you say something like captain kirk? do you give the -- >> no. >> -- disciples what they want? >> no. well, i don't know what they want. and eventually -- >> well, if i was at one i'd want you to come out, do that -- >> okay. piers. you're at the convention. you're there. hello, and good evening, and piers, i see you sitting in the audience. what would you like to know? >> beam me up, scotty. >> i hate you. you're off my list. i'm never going to come on this show again. because it irked me so -- for so long, beam me up, scotty. >> did it? why? >> i had built up -- i thought it was derision. i thought it was derisive after a while. after 30 years. i thought it was -- an then by getting in to the 40th year, i thought, what the heck? why are they saying that? it must be their derision. it must be they're laughing at me. then i go see patrick stewart, and he's this great shakespearean actor, and he's dealing with captain picard like it's shakespeare. and i'm thinking, my god, i used to do that. why aren't i doing that? i said, i've been doing this terrible thing. i shouldn't get irked at beam me up scotty. i should say i would if i could. >> yes. embrace it. >> embrace it. >> i should be guiding you through these conventions. >> do you have an ex-wife? >> yes. >> embrace it. >> when we come back after the break, i'll talk to you about marriage or in your case, marriages. what you have learned about love, romance, divorce. >> and all those good things. when you're a sports photographer, things can get out of control pretty quickly. so i like control in the rest of my life... especially my finances. that's why i have slate, with blueprint. i can create my own plan to pay down large purchases faster... or avoid interest on everyday items. that saves me money. with slate from chase, i'm always in control. financially, anyway. get slate with blueprint and save money. call 855-get-slate today. 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[ male announcer ] no need to wait with our christmas price guarantee. we're so confident in our prices if you do find a lower one between now and christmas, we'll give you the difference on a walmart gift card. save money. live better. walmart. my special guest william shatner. james. the kirk was a bit of a ladies man, wasn't he? very smooth. >> not a bit of. >> massive. >> massive, yes. >> ladies man. have you been like that in your life, would you say? >> i have. >> unashamedly so? >> some shame. >> how much? >> eh -- >> what have you learned about women? >> they're hormonal, piers. every day brings a different -- >> what you haven't learned is just by saying that you're making things ten times worse. >> no. you're making it better and by -- if you -- >> have you ever said to a woman you're hormonal and made it better? >> well, not at that moment. it takes time to sink in. like a year or two but if you the man realize that there are different here moans flooding in to her body, 30, 28 to 30 days a month, and that each hormonal increment changes her mood, from black to white and shades of gray, then you can go -- you can deal with that. >> does your wife elizabeth go along with this theory? >> no. she refuses to believe it. no, i'm kidding. she is in the studio and i have to -- my wife elizabeth is one of the great wives, in fact, the greatest wife i have known of anybody. >> really? why? >> she's understanding. she's loving. she's patient. she's her own woman. she's beautiful. she's passionate. she and i do so many of the same things together that we love to do. riding horses. family. food. i mean, it's just wonderful. >> as i say, she is your fourth wife. obviously you've been through some tragedy. one of your wives, a third wife, nearing -- she died this awful death. you also been married twice before that. what have you learned about you through this whole process, about the type of woman you needed to be with? >> i don't know whether it's a type of woman i needed to be with. what -- what some people acquire from their parents and from their associations is empathy, sympathy, understanding, sharing, equality. and other people mature later in life with those really ethical human traits. i had to learn them over my experience. i had to learn to empathize more. and be less concerned about myself. those things you acquire during a lifetime hopefully before you die. >> does a hollywood lifestyle, does -- oi there's no such thing as a hollywood lifestyle. >> there is, isn't there? >> no, there isn't. >> do you not think so? >> i know there isn't. you, because part of your career was working in tabloid stuff and seeking the tabloid headline, for the most part, those tabloid people are not the working people of in this town, for example, or new york. the centers of entertainment. the people who work in the entertainment industry get up at 4:00, 5:00 in the morning, go to bed 8:00, 9:00 at night and working at creating stuff. >> i've interviewed people like dennis hopper, charlie sheen, mickey rourk. people who are genuine hell raisers. >> you have gone through the list of people who are addicted and whether they were addicted at work, i don't know. it's true. you have hit those tabloid people, wonderful artists, wonderful actors, all of them. they -- i don't know whether they did that at work but if they did that at work too often they wouldn't work. they weren't there. charlie, for example, says that with the exception of occasional -