Transcripts For CNNW Starting Point 20120315

morning. ets it's going to go like that today. also joining us is jeff toobin the cnn senior legal analyst. thank you for joining us and hank of political strategist, iconic political strategist. nice to have you joining us. >> thank you. >> lots to get to. the afghan man who hijacked a car and then breached security, drove on to the runway in kabul just as the pentagon chief leon panetta was landing. that man has died. he died from burns he received after he lit himself on fire. we learned that he apparently was trying to run over a group of marines who had assembled to meet the defense secretary. the british soldier was also injured in that incident. leon panetta is in the capital and he's going to be meeting with the afghan president, harmid karzai and that comes days after a u.s. army sergeant apparently went on a violent attack and went door to door in the middle of the night killing 16 afghan civilians and most women and children. this morning, that suspect, a father of two have been flown out of afghanistan and being held at a military jail in kuwait. gary joins our panel this morning. nice to have you joining us. thank you for being with us. let's start with the suspect in the killings in this massacre. are you surprised that he's been removed out of afghanistan and now in kuwait? >> it's probably a good call. the afghans are not going to be happy about this, but preparations for the trial and for safety and for u.s. forces in rc south where he reportedly conducted this attack, it's probably the best thing to do to move them out. they were probably all in agreement on doing this. >> i read that they notified some other afghan leadership, but very vague on who was notified. would you expect fallout from that? >> there are members of the afghan parliament that are complaining already. i am sure they will call members of the karzai administration in front of them to question them on this. exercising more authority in the past year. president karzai was informed of this, i read and, you know, my understanding is he didn't make a formal complaint, but i suspect the afghans will want him tried back in afghanistan and moving him out from kuwait doesn't move him to baggram for a trial in the end. >> we're talking about the guy who drove the car out on the tarmac and he's now dead. doesn't seem to be specifically connected to leon panetta landing, you know, i don't get the sense that he knew that it was secretary panetta, although he did know that there were marines assembled to greet them. that doesn't surprise you, does it? >> 40 attacks by afghan security forces on forces there. part of the problem with all of this is that, you know, they did a poll about a year ago on the afghan men between the ages of 19 and 32 and 40% of them didn't know why we were there. didn't know about 9/11. afghan has a very low literacy rate, we are losing the propaganda war and the taliban respond very quickly to attacks and despite the fact that we're there at the desires of the afghan government that we built thousands of schools. i mean, we've done a lot of good work there. the majority of afghans support our presence there, but, you know, pakistnis, iranians, militant groups on the afghan border don't want us there and are conducting a propaganda war against the u.s. with some success. >> you say, you know, a majority of the afghan people don't know why we're there, i think you might also include the american people in that group. what's the goal? how can we tell when we won in afghanistan? >> well, i think that, you know, the issue here is this. we all know afghanistan was the place where an attack on the united states was launched. the problem is that this is going to look like korea after the korean war. there is not going to be any final ending to this conflict. we will be there for many years and the president has stated that his plan for the air force and special operation forces is going to be there for a much longer period than 2014. a statement made a couple months ago, so, we're there to stabilize afghanistan, but more than anything else, you have to remember that the afghan border and the tribal areas of pakistan have 24 militant groups and many organizing attacks on the west and have been doing so for years. this was a phenomenon that didn't follow our invasion in 2001. it was something that was, you know, active for years before our entry into that area. we have an interest in, you know, helping to defeat those groups and working with the afghan government and the pakistani government to do that and for long term stability of that area. look, forced levels will have to be dropped significantly lower. you know, possibly a third of what we got there so we can sustain over the long haul to accomplish the goals of the u.s. in that region. >> leon panetta says, stay the course. let's play a little bit of what he said. >> we will not allow individual incidents to undermine our resolve to that mission and to sticking to the strategy that we put in place. >> that, i think, it goes, is consistent with what you just laid out there. you wanted to jump in, hapg. >> does this mean every week we're going to hear more attack on american service people and on a constant basis. is this ever going to come to an end? are we really in control? does the infrastructure matter so bad. >> i would add to that, you know, the taliban has also made threats about beheading americans. would you, i guess that's not an idle threat. do you expect to see the violence just increase. >> we have been fighting this war for ten years. these attacks on u.s. forces have been going on for three years and a lot of people just weren't paying attention and we're seeing more of it now and it's more in the news, but, you know, this is a continuation of what has been occurring. if u.s. forces shift the mission, which they're going to, that means we're not going to control battle space any more. we'll work with their army to have them take the lead and with reduction in u.s. losses. but americans will be on the battlefield in afghanistan for a number of years to come, regardless whether this is a democratic or republican adm administration in washington. >> joining us this morning, thanks for your time, we appreciate it. >> you're welcome. other stories making news. christine has those. good morning. >> a deadly collision on a highway in southern pennsylvania. a truck hit a school bus almost head on. the truck driver was killed. close to two dozen students were hurt, six of them airlifted to the hospital. two families who sued virginia tech for a deadly campus shooting in 2007. they were awarded $4 million each by a jury. the suit claims the school failed to notify the rest of campus fast enough after two students were found dead. 33 people were killed that day in the worst. >> i think justice is clearly in the message. the prides and petersons have said from day one, this is not about the money. as have most of the family members. it's not about the money, it's about the truth being told. the university knew at 7:31 a.m. that there was one mortally wounded, one deceased and a gunman on the loose on campus. they did nothing to inform students, staff and faculty about that danger. >> this is not the last word. the state giving strong signals it will appeal. off to prison today for former illinois governor rob blagojevich. the attempted selling of president obama's illinois senate seat. looking at live pictures of him outside his chicago home because he has to report to federal prison. he will serve his term at federal prison in colorado. coming up at 7:30 we'll talk to a man who knows what it is like behind bars. jack abramoff joins us. teen smoking an epidemic, the centers for disease control revealing its new, national ad campaign aimed at getting smokers to quit and keep anyone else, especially kids, from starting in the first place. the ads represent graphic images like this one, along with tips from former smokers showing the severe health effects of tobacco use. minding your business this morning. gas prices up for the sixth day in a row. the national average, $3.82 a gallon. gas is up almost 60 cents a gallon in since january. top their records this summer if oil prices remain strong. quite a guest list at the state dinner at the white house last night. corporate heavyweights like warren buffett and, george clooney arriving solo. president obama using the occasion to thank cameron for his consistent friendship. >> i've learned something about david. in good times and in bad, he's just the kind of partner that you want at your side. i trust him. he says what he does and he does what he says. >> as for the seating assignments, let's just say it's good to be the first lady. check out this tweet last night from mark knoller. i guess mrs. obama seated between prime minister cameron and on her left and george clooney on her right. >> she is like, blah, blah, blah, the prime minister, george, let's talk about the sudan. thanks, christine, appreciate it. still ahead on "starting point." rick santorum says puerto rico needs to adopt english if it wants to become a state because it is the law. it's not the law. where do america's biggest boozers live? in case you're wondering. there is a new list. people make lists about this stuff. there's a new one. our get real this morning, i love this story. a guy who took the money and literally ran. he is the man in charge of the office pool for the lottery. i'll leave it at that. we'll have our get real straight ahead. okay, team! after age 40, we can start losing muscle -- 8% every 10 years. wow. wow. but you can help fight muscle loss with exercise and ensure muscle health. i've got revigor. what's revigor? it's the amino acid metabolite, hmb to help rebuild muscle and strength naturally lost over time. 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[ female announcer ] discover what's next in your life. get this free travel bag when you join at aarp.org/jointoday. this is off of jeff toobin's playlist. i haven't heard that song in forever. >> this song was like 20 years older than mine. you made fun of me for my song being old. >> i'm contemporary of that song. i have never heard of your song. >> originally written and very famous french song -- >> it's a little slow. early mornings, early mornings. let's move on. our whole entire playlist can be found online at cnn.com/startingpoint. the gop campaigns are moving to puerto rico. 23 delegates up for grabs in puerto rico. it's an opportunity, of course, to get votes, an opportunity for mistakes, of course. rick santorum was asked if he would support making puerto rico a state and he told the local newspaper this. "like any other state, there has to be compliance with this and any other federal law. english has to be the principal language. to be a state of the united states, english has to be the principal language." but that's not really true, is it? our many lawyers on the panel today. it's not true at all. let's bring in pedro, nice to see you, sir, thank you for being with us. let me start with what your reaction is to mr. santorum's comments. the reaction of yourself and then others in puerto rico after reading these comments in the newspaper. >> well, first, it's incorrect to say that there's a federal law imposing english as the only official language in our states. the constitution doesn't provide anything along those lines either. and in puerto rico, as a matter of fact, we have two official languages. english and spanish. santorum's view is narrow and limiting view of what america is all about. english is the predominant language in the u.s. and will continue to be so, whether puerto rico becomes a state or not. in puerto rico, 90% of our parents want their children to become fluent in english. so, it's a nonissue and shouldn't be a factor in determining whether puerto rico can join the union or not. >> there's a whole vote on this, of course, come november. puerto rico, those who want statehood for puerto rico will decide that happens in november. explain to me the whole federal law in this, jeff toobin, about english only. this is something that has been debated for a long time. >> it has been debated, but never any federal law that says english is the official language of the united states. >> there are 41 states that have decided -- >> state permissions. but there are many federal laws that say you have to make available to citizens government benefits, government obligations in the language that they understand. when you have an american courtroom, i used to be a federal prosecutor. it is a requirement that you have an interpreter there, whether they're speaking english, whatever it is, the idea is the government has to make sure that people understand what's going on, not that people have an obligation to speak english. >> politically speaking, as you're campaigning for votes in puerto rico, is this a tough issue for him, judge. >> he ought to save his money and buy a house. this is absolutely nuts. puerto rico is not going to be a state and not the first time a referendum on the issue and nonbinding. he a resident commissioner and he has no power. $25 billion goes out of this country every year to puerto rico in aid. for him to engage in this kind of behavior, santorum shows he has become part -- >> that kind of far run end of the spectrum and xwr have to point out this isn't the first time, although jeff is right, no federal law requiring english the official language. when louisiana was brought into the country, the government said you need to adopt english as your official language. there was a law that said you have to have public schools conduct english as your official language. not the first time. let's not paint santorum as a do doofis. this is not unprecedented. >> this is not about the language. santorum being used by local politicians and a referendum that has no binding, whatsoever. puerto rico will not become a state. >> let's go back to congressman, you have pushed for better instruction in both english and spanish for students in puerto rico. is the quality of english education in puerto rico a problem? >> we have to enhance it and, you're right, that's what we have been doing but i, let me clarify the record. first of all, i am a member of congress. i represent 3.7 million american citizens in congress. my title is resident commissioner. but don't forget, puerto rico is part of the u.s. we are american citizens and the question of statehood, two things must happen for that to occur. the people of puerto rico must request it and then congress must grant it. and to say that it is out of the question when you don't really, we haven't had the vote yet. the last time the people of puerto rico were consulted on this issue was 14 years ago. it is about time we know whether the people of puerto rico aspire to become a state and that's going to happen in november. so, you go step-by-step, but to impose on puerto rico a condition that no other state has, it's unreasonable. by the way, federal agencies conduct their business in puerto rico in english and our government in puerto rico, whenever required, provide service in english, as well. just a matter of getting the record straight. >> what's the fall out been in puerto rico in terms of how the election you feel is going to go? how are the polls going in puerto rico? >> well, our governor is affiliated with the republican party and he has endorsed mitt romney. i would expect that romney will prevail, we'll see on sunday and but in terms of the general elections in the u.s., president obama has been great here in puerto rico. he included puerto rico in our program in the stimulus. he also increased considerably the funding that puerto rico gets for its health problems. there's no parity, but we got an enhancement as part of the affordable care act and he's been straight forward on the status issue. he has told the people of puerto rico that he will support the will of the majority of the people of puerto rico when the time comes for them to express themselves on the status quiiss >> which will be come november. we are out of time. i want to thank you, congressman, for joining us. we certainly appreciate your remarks on that. >> thank you. still ahead on "starting point" north korea's new leader reportedly showing no mercy as he takes control of a military drill this morning. the latest on that. in our "get real" a word to the wise, don't trust your co-workers. an office lottery pool cheat is caught after he takes the entire jackpot for himself. i've got that story straight ahead on "starting point." to supply affordable, cleaner energy, while protecting our environment. across america, these technologies protect air - by monitoring air quality and reducing emissions... ...protect water - through conservation and self-contained recycling systems... ... and protect land - by reducing our footprint and respecting wildlife. america's natural gas... domestic, abundant, clean energy to power our lives... that's smarter power today. woman: what do you mean, homeowners insurance doesn't cover floods? 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[ heart rate increases ] woman #2: but i don't even live near the water. what you don't know about flood insurance may shock you -- including the fact that a preferred risk policy starts as low as $129 a year. for an agent, call the number that appears on your screen. will cain has a diverse playlist. >> i assume that's a compliment. >> always a compliment when i'm talking to you, will cain. our "get real "this morning may be my favorite story of all time. the winner is a guy named america lopez' a j. a jury found him cheating his way out of the office lottery pool. go buy the lottery tickets and he worked at a construction company in new jersey. so, november 2009, he buys a mega millions ticket and it wins. it hits $77 million. split two ways. two winning tickets in that. he opted for the lump sum of $24 million and didn't tell anybody. he calls in sick and says, i'm going to get my foot surgery done and comes back to work to say, i'm quitting, i won the lottery. enough time has passed. he claimed the winning ticket was his own purchase with his own money and the judge disagreed with him and gave his five co-workers $4 million apiece. >> this isn't that easy of a case. i turned to jeff during the break and we talked about this. the guy's defensive. we all put money together to buy a ticket and i bought some on my own. it makes the contract to split the winnings a little difficult. >> the one he won, he tried to get that sort of time difference. this can't be the first time this happened, right? >> another famous case in new jersey where office workers started having a fight. that one was resolved because it turned out they didn't have a winning ticket. too bad. what's so hilarious about this. these are not millionaires. why wasn't $4 million enough? why couldn't you say, you know what, i hit the lottery, i think i'll take $4 million. >> given $24 million -- >> $24 million, jeff. >> i never held $4 million. so -- >> he wanted to do what everybody else has done. go to wall street and make a lot of money. >> i think it was a brilliant plan, but karma will always get you and karma got him in the end. >> when he showed up to quit in a lamborghini, it might have raised some suspicions. >> that's exactly what happened. when he showed up to quit, everyone is like, that's interesting. >> fit right in there. still ahead this morning on "starting point" newt gingrich king maker. the former house speaker's pivotal role in the gop race. we'll talk to the conservative leaders making a bold call, another one, for him to drop out of the race. plus the goldman sachs employee calls the company toxic and then quit. goldmine sacks is responding and also taking a bigger hit. from governor to prisoner, rod blagojevich left his home just moments ago going to serve a 14-year sentence. we'll talk to jack abramoff about what prison will hold for the former governor. we're back in just a moment. named a 2012 iihs top safety pick. not...that... we'd ever brag about it... turn right. come on, nine. turn left. hit the brakes. huh? how did that get there? 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"that is off of my playlist. that is usually more of a weekend thing. good morning, christine. >> good morning, soledad. north korea's new leader kim jong-un tries to bolster his credentials as the country's commander in chief. involving all three branches and ordered troops to mercilessly retaliate against any enemy. the senate has passed a bipartisan two-year, $109 billion transportation bill but the measure faces a major battle in the house and republicans want to pass a bill to cover five years and their version includes provisions opposed by democrats like oil drilling on federal lands. minding your business this morning, goldman sachs is responding to an employee who aired his grievances in the "new york times." he resigned by e-mail just ten minutes before publishing a scathing op-ed. in an internal memo to employees, lloyd blankfine says "everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, but unfortunate an individual opinion is amplified in a newspaper and speaks louder than the regular fe, detailed a intensive feedback you have provided the firm." whiping $2.2 million off its market value. u.s. stock futures trading higher this morning. many of you watching shares of goldman today. yesterday they lost 2.2 million in value. the dow yesterday, though, closed up for the sixth day in a row. for single guys and girls, the nation's capital is a booze cruise. howaboutwe.com says 34% of washington, d.c., singles rate themselves heavy drinkers. number one in the country, new york and chicago 33% each rounding out the top five of the biggest single drinkers, austin, texas and boston. the city with the lightest drinking singles, wait for it, vegas. there you go. >> interesting. it doesn't say -- >> free drinks and they're there to keep you drinking and g gambling. shocking. >> that's exactly -- >> doesn't say how many drinks. >> that's nuts. i don't buy it. >> doesn't say how many drinks, soledad. it just says if you frequently drink, that's what the people answered. i frequently have a drink. >> that's a little vague. but, still, a third of the people saying in new york and other places that they're heavy drinkers. thank you. the former illinois governor rod blagojevich on his way to prison right now. we have new pictures of the governor leaving his chicago home. less than 30 minutes ago. 14 years in prison for corruption for trying to sell president obama's vacated senate seat in terms for political favors and donations. outside his home yerld he held one of the strangest press conferences i have seen in a long time and talked to reporters about what he has learned in this entire process. here's what he said. >> when i became governor, i fought a lot, maybe i fought too much. maybe one of the lessons to this whole story is that maybe you have to be more humble. you can never have enough humility and maybe i could have had more of that. >> i don't think that's right. the lesson is you shouldn't be a criminal. >> yeah. we're going to talk about that straight ahead because joining our panel is jack abramoff a lobbyist who served four years in prison. he has written a new book called "capital punishment." nice to have you join the panel. thank you, we appreciate your time. what we heard from jeff toobin which is the lessons learned are not lessons about humility. really a lesson about ripping people off and doing humiliating things. what did you think of it? did you see it? >> i did. frankly, i think the entire media strategy of the governor, former governor has been a little strange and surprising from the beginning and probably aided the fact that he got a lot more time than maybe he would have if he would have come forward and been humble and basically admitted what he did perhaps and try to work through it. >> i guess some of that is because his case, he will appeal his conviction, but i want to talk to you about what his first day, which will be today will be like. you went off to englewood federal prison in littleton, colorado, explain to me when you got there, you went to a different prison, that's where blagojevich is headed. when they closed the door on you, what is that like? >> it's horrible. they strip you out of all your clothes, take all your possessions and put them in a box and ship them to your family and put you in the prison garb and thrust you among the inmates, most of whom are friendly and not hostile, but completely disoriented environment. he's a celebrity, he will be the celebrity of the prison. i think that jeff skilling who is there, is probably happy he is arriving because being the celebrity in prison, take it from me, is not fun. >> explain that to me. what do you mean by that? being well known wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing in a prison that is full of white collared criminals. >> i don't think there is any prison full of white collar criminals. more white collar criminals than in other facilities, but most of the federal crimes are drug related. 90% of the crimes are drug related and it's going to be very tough to have a prison that is full of white collar criminals. a reputation that had more white collar criminals. you don't want attention in prison, you want to keep your head down and you want to be humble and get your time done and not attract the attention of the authorities there or setting out to break the rules there. >> sorry, i didn't mean to interrupt you. blagojevich spoke about his family. here's what he said about his wife and kids. list listen. >> saying good-bye to patty and to my kids will be the hardest thing i've ever had to do. i have been putting off the thought about what that is going to be like. i can't even think about it now. >> you say one of your biggest mistakes was allowing your children to come when you had to surrender. what was that like? >> well, it was horrible. the problem is that going into prison, there's a final moment there where you walk through a door that you can't go back out from and my kids were extremely upset, obviously. i was upset, my wife was upset and it probably was unwise of us at the end of the day to bring them to that day. we wanted them to see that i was going, where i was going and that everything was going to be okay, but kind of had a little bit of the opposite effect own when they visited soon after that they were able to see i was fine and not in any danger. >> you broke down in your sentencing hearing and this is after you consistently said you had tremendous regret. my name is the butt of joke s ad i'm not sure that will ever change. how did you get through and come out the other side and how do you think governor blagojevich is going to be able to do that? what strategy would you advise? >> number one in prison, one of the most important things is to keep busy and fill your day with as many activities that for positive, things that can improve your life is possible. reading, writing, tutoring other inmates if they need help in things and trying to just keep yourself busy. number two, hopefully he is a man who has some faith certainly which impels one to get through it. number three, visitors and friend, hopefully, who will not abandon him and come visit him as frequently as possible. i was in prissen for 185 weekends and i had visitors every weekend and that helped me considerably. frankly, keeping your sense of humor. you cannot become depressed and it is a place of pain. people in prison are in pain and some are there much longer than governor blagojevich is going to go and it's a horrific experience. >> why did you write the book? >> why did i write the book? one, i wanted to get out what happens in washington and what's been going on here in d.c., behind the doors. the doors that i operated behind and hope that people would become informed and perhaps do something about it which is what i'm working on now. number two, i wanted to tell my story. my story was mangled in the press. i sat quietly as this thing happened to me and i couldn't really speak and i wound up getting all kind of tales told about me that i thought were inaccurate. >> jack, how scary is it? were you scared for your physical safety at any point? >> i think you're scared going in because you don't know what you're about to encounter, but generally you're not scared. the prisons are pretty well maintained in the sense that if there's violence, they'll get down on it very quickly. that dozen mean there is violence, there is violence but for a white collar criminal, what you basically have to do is stay out of the business of making trouble and people are breaking the rules. it's tempting there to break the rules, too many people are doing it. >> what rules do they break in prison? >> stealing things out of the kitchen and selling them or engaging in -- my prison people who were sneaking cell phones on to the compound all the time. that, as well as minor refractions. any kind of infraction that breaks the rules. they give you a handbook, learn them, and obey them. what is going on around you, stay away from trouble because it can get very bad in pris fn you break the rules. >> this is will cain, most of us have not and experienced what you have here. you talk about celebrity both blagojevich and yours. did that attract an attack? were you the focus of attacks? >> not necessarily the focus of attacks, but not physical attacks. again, you know, inmates are like everyone else, an electi electiontic group and some will not react well to the fact that a lot of attention is going to be paid to him. when i arrived in prison, they locked the prison down that day because the mead was all over the place. that's not a good thing to enter the prison under a lock down procedure. they have to stay in their cubes or cells. basically he has to keep his head down. if he plays to the krebt and all the attention and all the hoopla made around him, he will end up in trouble in prison. they want inmates to be inmates and not celebrities. >> let's talk about what gets people in public life into those place wheres they feel those things. tell me about the influence of money and politics. what would you do about super pacs, would you be involved in that system today? what do you think about it? >> undoubtedly, unfortunately, i would be right where i was if things haven't gone off the chart for me and that's an unfortunate part of my personality and what i was involved in. what we have to do in america is we have to get the special interests and lobbyist money out of politics. that's my particular approach to this. the other attempts to limit expenditures of people who are not getting things back from the government, i don't think, will survive in the court. the attack i'm taking is that people who are lobbyists and people who are getting things back from the government. when i say lobbyists, i don't mean registered lobbyists, i mean everybody. everybody who is engaged in that industry has to be kept away from getting money. that is a good start to getting rid of some of the corruption and influence in politics. >> he has a new book called "capital punishment." served nearly four years in prison. thank you for talking with us, your experience is absolutely riveting to hear what you had to say. ahead on "starting point," if you can't beat them, join them. council has called for newt gingrich to step aside. plus, more information about those mississippi pardons. documents to show the former governor and his wife gave special treatment to a couple killers. they even arranged for the convicts to get driver's licenses and new cars. we're back in just a moment. americans believe they should be in charge of their own future. how they'll live tomorrow. for more than 116 years, ameriprise financial has worked for their clients' futures. helping millions of americans retire on their terms. when they want. where they want. doing what they want. ameriprise. the strength of a leader in retirement planning. the heart of 10,000 advisors working with you one-to-one. together for your future. ♪ my playlist, but it's so slow. tony perkins will join us in just a moment. that's james taylor, "you've got a friend." newt gingrich dropped out already that's the message from tony perkins, as well. he writes that gingrich could be a kingmaker if he stepped out of the race and threw his support to another candidate. gingrich says he's not going anywhere. listen. >> the thing i find most disheartening about this campaign is the difficulty of talking about positive ideas on a large scale because the news media can't cover it and candidly my opponents can't comprehend it. the result is you can't have a serious conversation. >> that's newt gingrich basically saying i can't drop out because other people don't get it. joining our panel this morning, tony perkins. he's the president of the family research council. nice to have you. a little slow, i think, on the song this morning, but we're going to forgive you for that and move on. it seems to me like newt gingrich when you look at the little will he gate count, he's trailing significantly, mitt romney at 498, rick santorum at 239 delegates and newt gingrich has 139 delegates. so he's obviously trailing in the math. ron paul with 69 delegates. he's trailing in the math. it sounds, sir, like he's not listening to your calls at all. what do you make of that? >> well, soledad, i think you just do the math and you're seeing increasingly that evangelicals are moving away from mitt romney. miss sipmississippi in particul 66% voted for gingrich and santorum. 35% to santorum, 32% for newt gingrich. that's increasingly what we're seeing happening especially in the southern states. you add it up, 67% of voters didn't vote for mitt romney who are evangelical. if one of them gets out and it makes more sense for newt gingrich to get out, the conservatives coalesce around a candidate. i think mitt romney then drops into second place. >> so newt gingrich's message back is almost, you know, the reason i can't drop out is that the media really doesn't cover these issues that i'm interested in talking about. my opponents can't even understand the issues i'm talking about. does he have a point, that if he does drop out he becomes less of a king maker and the message is going to get lost? >> soledad, look, to win the nomination you not only have to capture the minds of gop voters, you have to capture their hearts. that's not happening from him or from mitt romney. mitt romney's not capturing the heart of gop voters. he might be leading in the delegate count, but he won't be able to go into the convention even if he's leading in delegate count and not have the enthusiasm of gop voters and hope to secure the nomination let alone secure the general election and win the white house. >> tony, will cain. you talked about the statistics on why or how evangelicals are not going mitt romney's way? why won't they move to mitt romney? >> well, i think in part because we started out, this was going to be over after new hampshire. then it was going to be over after florida. it was supposed to be inevidenceable that mitt romney was going to be the nominee. of course, everybody, conservative voters, i should say, want to see barack obama replaced so they thought that was the case. with each successful contest that santorum has or gingrich had, mitt romney is losing that idea of inevitability. the gap is widening. >> what does that have to do with evangelicals specifically? you pointed out evangelicals specifically are not voting for mitt romney. why? >> they're not comfortable. they're not comfortable with him on his policies. when you look at his record as governor of massachusetts, they're just not comfortable with him. they were kind of tolerating it initially. >> you don't think mormonism has anything to do with it? >> i don't know that people are -- at least i haven't heard a lot of discussion about that because they can't get beyond their concern over his policy positions. that may be an issue if they get beyond the policy concerns, but right now it's focused on his policies. >> all right. final question for you. you have to sort of position this, i mean, to get newt gingrich to take the bait of saying, you know, king maker is better than candidate. what do you think you have to do to bring him to that position? because right now he clearly believes candidate is significantly better position to be in than king maker? >> look, soledad, i understand. i've been in office. i've been a candidate. i understand when you've invested so much you don't want to walk away from it, but i think, you know, newt gingrich understands the significance of this election. he is a student of history, professor of history. he understands what's at stake here and how this is unl folding. i think he's one of the most influential people right now in american politics. he could suspend his candidacy until the convention, keep it out there. if something goes haywire he could still insert himself once again, but i think throwing his support to a conservative alternative, which would be santorum at this point, i think would make him very, very powerful and i think would make him a king maker. >> tony perkins joipg us this morning, the president of the family research council. thanks for talking with. got to take a short break. we're back in just a moment. to keep big winter jobs on track, at&t provided a mobile solution that lets everyone from field workers to accounting, initiate, bill, and track work in real time. you can't live under a dome in minnesota, that's why there's guys like me. 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[ major nutrition ] ensure. nutrition in charge! we've got much more ahead this morning. mitt romney does the math. his campaign is playing the numbers game, but are they focusing on delegate count and not the message? plus the harsh public message from a former goldman sachs employee as he quits. going to talk to a man who literally wrote the book about goldman sachs. talk about the culture of that company. also, mississippi's former governor's freed killers and helped them buy cars, believe it or not. there's a new report out about that. watching "starting point." we're back right after the break. ahh, one. two. three. one. two. and, three. [ male announcer ] with the bankamericard cash rewards credit card, earn more cash back for the things you buy most. 1% cash back everywhere, every time. 2% cash back on groceries. 3% back on gas. automatically. no hoops to jump through. it's as easy as one. -two. -three. 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[ male announcer ] buy unlimited messaging and get free unlimited calling to any mobile phone on any network. at&t. and welcome to starting point, everybody. our "starting point" this morning is math versus the message. rick santorum is mocking mitt romney. he says he believes the message is more important than the numbers. listen. >> it's pretty sad when all you have is to do math. >> both candidates are now battling for i guess the real deep south, which is puerto rico. also defense secretary leon panetta's meeting with afghanistan's president trying to diffuse a crisis there. anger in afghanistan is burning deep this morning after a u.s. soldier goes on a killing spree of civilians. and a proposal in new york city that would collect dna for every crime. i guess it's the state of new york. critics say, this isn't c srchlts i. this is real life. thursday, march 15th. thursday, march 15th. starting point begins right now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com ♪ freeze frame we begin with jeff toobin's play list. freeze frame. i'm reliving my childhood of the '80s. no value judgment in that. >> little old, i know. >> i love it. an oldie and a goody. i like it. i like it. jeff toobin. >> dancing at the gym, i figured bring that. >> that's just odd. jeff of course is our cnn senior legal analyst. hank joins us. he's an iconic political strategist. will cain joins us. he's a cnn contributor and contributor at the blaze.com. we have to get to some breaking news out of afghanistan. they want the united states to pull all the troops out of villages and relocate them into bases. that's a request apparently coming from the president, hamid karzai's office. the afghan taliban says the united states is not fulfilling the conditions for peace that was negotiated to keep anger from rising in afghanistan after last weekend's massacre of 16 afghanistan civilians allegedly at the hands of a u.s. army soldier. as the defense secretary and hamid karzai meet to talk about these tensions, there's no question that this will be discussed. let's get right to cnn's sara sidner. what's the latest on this? >> reporter: yeah. we were hearing media reports that possibly that mr. karzai's asking for nato troops to move out of the villages. wouldn't be a big surprise considering what's happened over the last few weeks and especially what happened on sunday with a u.s. soldier standing accused of massacring 16 civilians in the dead of night. there had been a lot of conversation and controversy over these night raids that have happened. of course the u.s. is saying that this was only a single soldier acting on his own but there have been arguments in the past over the u.s. and nato forces conducting night raids with the afghan government saying that they did not want that to take place not only by u.s. troops but also by afghan troops unless there was some very legal work done beforehand so that everyone knew what was going to happen in the afghan government. moving on now to some violence that has exploded here. there has been a roadside bomb that has killed nine children. in total, 13 people. nine children and two adults. that happened in the urugon province. no one has claimed responsibility for that. local officials say it is terrorists as they are calling them. we should talk a little bit about mr. panetta's visit. this is coming at the same exact time when they have decided to send the soldier that is accused in this massacre out of the country. i'm certain that is going to be up for discussion. we have also talked to a local official in kandahar where this massacre happened sunday. he told us that him and several other local afghan officials have been shown the surveillance video that exists of this u.s. soldier who allegedly got off base and killed so many people, and he said that he is not convinced -- that he is still not convinced that this was the work of only one man. that's the latest from afghanistan at this point, soledad. >> sara updating us. thank you very much. let's get some other updates on other stories making news and christine romans has that for us. >> good morning, soledad. a jury has awarded $4 million each to two families who sued virginia tech for a deadly campus shooting back in 2007. the suit charged the school failed to alert the campus quickly enough after two students were found dead. 33 people died that day. cnn's ashleigh banfield spoke to the mother of a daughter who survived the massacre. laurie haas was not part of the lawsuit but gave the final testimony yesterday on behalf of two families. >> i think justice is clearly in the message. they have said from day one this is not about the money, as have most of the family members. it's not about the money, it's about the truth being told. the university knew at 7:30 a.m. that there was one mortally wounded, one deceased, and a gunman on the loose on campus and they did nothing to inform students, staff, and faculty about that danger. >> this is likely not the last word. the state giving strong signals it will appeal. the u.s. conference of catholic bishops says their battle with president obama's mandate on contraceptive health coverage, it's now their top priority. the bishops putting out a statement insisting this is not about access to contraception but the government forcing the church to provide them. minding your business this morning, gas prices rising for six days in a row. aaa reports the national average price of unleaded now $3.82 a gallon. gas up almost 60 cents a gallon since january. prices may well top their 2008 records this summer if oil prices remain strong here. representatives for actress lindsey lohan says the reports that say she was involved in a hit and run incident last night are, quote, absurd. t.m.z. has been reporting that she tried to pull out of a hollywood parking lot in her porch. that's when she grazed the knee of a manager of a nearby business. she has called the report a complete lie and los angeles police say they are not investigating. soledad, only something that's not being investigated lindsey lohan can still get in the headlines for. >> on this one i feel sorry for lindsey. he was fine. no, no, i'm fine, until someone explained to him who that was who hit him. then he's like, oh, my knee. oh, my god, i think i've lost feeling in my knee. yeah. yeah. sorry, lindsay. i feel sorry for her on that one. we turn to talk politics. delegates, delegates, delegates. may not be the most inspiring message, but for mitt romney it's certainly an accurate message. he is leading, of course, in the delegate count. he has 498 delegates. rick santorum has 239. newt gingrich 139, ron paul trails at 69 delegates. but his focus on the delegate math has supporters suggesting that, you said this first, will cain, yesterday, that this as a strategy is not a winning strategy, and it was veteran republican strategist mike murphy who we've talked to before who tweeted this. note to mitt r. please, please, please stop talking delegate counts and process. run for potus. will cain, i'll let you start because that was your message yesterday. >> it's funny we've seen santorum win kansas. meanwhile mitt romney increases his delegate lead. now santorum goes and wins alabama, mississippi, but he loses the delegate lead again because romney wins in hawaii and american samoa. >> and also because he's so far behind that even if he had picked up american samoa and hawaii, he would not be leading. >> because i'm so pleased on this metaphor and it's march 345dness. it's like watching one team launch threes, and have windmill dunks while the other team quietly make 2s and wins the game. this is not the way you sell tickets for mitt romney but you win the game this way. >> i love when someone goes with a sports metaphor on this show in the morning. >> the day the tournament starts. give me leeway. >> all the leeway is yours. >> this is a convention. it's not an election. these delegates are going to make up their mind in tampa. i just think if santorum continues to win primaries, you've got illinois next week, probably will go to romney, but let's just say that goes to santorum. texas, california, new york, big states, if santorum could somehow win these states, he's going to win this nomination. i don't care what the delegates say. >> that's incredibly odd because you have to have 1144 to win the nomination and it's almost virtually impossible mathematical problem for santorum to get there. >> you tell me if santorum wins all those big states coming up, he's not going to be the nominee? no way. >> if we have time warps, we can change the nature of the un be any verse also. it's not likely, number one. number two, this is a battle inside the republican party about elites versus nonelites. this is 1964 again. >> it sounds like jeff is saying if he has these big major wins that it will go to a brokered convention. >> it's symbolic. >> santorum really could be the victor out of a brokered convention? >> look, once we get to a brokered convention, all bets off. i don't see a scenario where we go there and mitt romney doesn't come out the victor. i'm not advocating for mitt romney. what i'm telling you, i don't see a path for rick santorum. it's not impossible, improbable path. >> his message has been i'm about hearts and minds. people are going on tv representing the romney campaign, as did yesterday with us, and saying, let's look at the numbers. let's look at the math. hearts and minds is a better strategy when you want to reach people in the upcoming primaries then saying, here's what we're going to try to you, x number of delegates. >> 100% true. mike murphy had it right. if you want the next state's primary voters to vote for you, mitt romney, don't tell them about delegates, process, conventions. leave that part out. tell them why they should vote for zblu ahead on "starting point" this morning, new york coming close to becoming the first state that would take dna samples for every crime from anybody who's convicted of any crime. right now it's just felonies and some misdemeanors. critics say this could actually increase chances for a big mistake. we're going to talk to new york's chief judge about why he thinks it's a good thing. mississippi's former governor freed killers and then helped them buy cars. there are some strange new revelations about those pardons in mississippi. cnn exclusive. you're watching "starting point." 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[ female announcer ] discover what's next in your life. get this free travel bag when you join at aarp.org/jointoday. ♪ >> that's katy perry right off of will cain's play list. no, that's off of my play list. welcome back, everybody. new york state is about to go where no other state has gone yet. the state just reached a deal to expand dna tracking program. and that program will now track anyone who's convicted of a crime, including misdemeanors. currently it tracks felons and then a selected number of misdemeanors. the goal is to catch more criminals. new york's chief judge is jonathan litman. he's been an advocate. why do you support this? >> i support it because i think this particular program in new york will cover both sides of this issue. dna has a tremendous potential for capturing criminals, the bad guys, and also has a tremendous potential for exonerating the innocent. the deal that's been reached in albany really has a bill that covers both ends of this and a lot of the language in the bill comes from our judiciary justice task force, which is a group of prosecutors, defense people, scientists, academics that are looking at, again, the unleashed potential of dna. >> there's now a long list of the misdemeanors that if you are convicted of this misdemeanor you would have to give a dna sample. i'll read you the short list from the really really really long list of forgery, false advertising. if you're convicted of disrupting religious service. if you're convicted of unlawful gratuities. what is that? bribery in some way? resisting arrest. if you are convicted of fortune telling. if you're convicted of writing a bad check. if you're convicted of rent gouging and much, much more. the list really goes on. you would have to submit a dna sample. no surprise that there are some critics to this who say that there are so many errors or there can be errors in the dna sampling that it opens up even more chance for more errors. >> well, there are different views as to how many misdemeanors should be in this. what's interesting, that there's a car of out in the new bill for low level marijuana possession that has to do with stop and frisk policies and making sure that those people who are stopped and frisked on the street do not have the dna taken. so it's a very interesting little car of out in a larger approach to all felonies and misdemeanors. there have been different views on how far to go on the misdemeanor. >> when the critics say, jeff toobin, that dna sampling can be flawed and if you increase the pool of people who are getting their dna sampled, you sort of increase largely the number of people who have flawed dna going through the courts, is that true? >> i don't buy that. one of the things i don't understand about the civil liberties objection to this is we in new york and elsewhere, we take fingerprints routinely. fingerprints are much less reliable than dna, isn't that right? >> there's no question. >> so why is it more of a civil liberties problem to use a more accurate technology rather than a less accurate technology? >> yeah. i think we'd be remiss if we didn't take advantage of this new science at the same time i think we have to recognize that dna opens all kinds of opportunities to remedy wrongful convictions of people who are innocent which is the worst stain on the justice system. >> hank's going to give the terrible argument. >> here's a terrible argument against it. terrible arguments right here come to me all the time. judge, fingerprints when you lock somebody up, you're a policeman having been in that role, you fingerprint somebody, you wait for them to come back to make sure that's the person it is and to give the judge enough information and make sure there are no warrants outstanding. that's not what dna is for. the list of crimes that this could be used for, misdemeanors is awfully broad. don't you think that's an infringement on people's civil liberties? it's one thing if you're looking for felons but another thing if you're looking for a fortuneteller. >> i understand your perspective. my view is we should do everything we can to find the people who are guilty of crimes because on the other side of it, if you exonerate one innocent person and you take off the street the person who's preying on the public, you're performing a great public service. i agree with you, we have to be careful as to where this goes. >> big reach by government. >> let's take a look at the numbers of people exonerated. they've been able to identify with this database as it exists already, 12,000 suspects identified. there have been 2800 convictions that are affiliated with this database and 27 people exonerated because of this database is what is claimed. do you expect a huge difference? if you open up the pool now to misdemeanors, do you see a giant change? >> i think there's going to be more matches. that's what this is about. what we've put into this bill. a lot of it comes from the recommendations of our task force, which is not republican, not democrat, but just wants to make the justice system, you know, better in terms of what happens, what we put into this when you -- after you plea, you need to be able to get access to dna. you need to be able to compare your dna to the dna at the crime scene and then the crime scene to the database. and when you hit these matches, you're going to have people who are innocent, exonerated of crimes, and you're going to take people off the streets who are free to, again, prey on the public when in reality the bottom line is the wrong person has been found to be guilty of a crime and this is what -- my main concern is eliminating this scurge of wrongful conviction which is the one thing that undermines the justice system. >> judge jonathan lipman joining us. ahead on "starting point" this morning, more information on the mississippi pardons and pretty shocking new documents show that the former governor and his wife gave special treatment to a couple of killers. they helped them get new cars and driver's license as well. also caught on tape, a guy who tries to rob a deli and who gets clubbed, instead. get it? watching "starting point." back in a moment. ♪ it's the last thing you had planned ♪ ♪ and out of the blue clear sky ♪ >> this is a blue grass song, mr. snob. >> elitist. eliti elitist. >> george strait, blue clear sky. i was wondering when that would pop up in our play list. >> going to happen. >> we love it. we love it. everybody can check out our play list at cnn.com/startingpoint. there's some new fallout to tell you about in this exclusive story from cnn. documents that reveal special treatment for pardoned killers that they received from the former governor, haley barbour, and his wife and staff. there are reports that reveal that the former first lady, marsha barber, called a car dealership about buying two cars on behalf of two convicted killers. david gatlin and charles hooker before they were actually pardoned. and the former governor's security chief then took both men out of custody so they could go get their driver's licenses. you'd hate to have a new car and not have a driver's license. i spoke last week with one of david gatlin's victims, guy named randy walker, he still thinks gatlin is a threat to his life. >> if somebody tries to kill you and they don't succeed, he's always a threat, he or she's always a threat. i've been advised that if i see david in any of my immediate area, whatever, that it would -- i should probably take that as a threat because he stalked us in the beginning when he did the shooting and tried to kill me and that's the way i'll take it if i see him again. i'll take it as an immediate threat on my life and i'll act accordingly. >> i was trying to get him to say what exactly does act accordingly mean. >> this is such a bizarre story. we've been doing this a lot on ac 360. one of the questions raised is is it illegal to take a prisoner and go get them a driver's license? it was such a bizarre question that, like, how would you even think to make such a thing illegal because who would you think would ever do such a thing, to take a prisoner to get a driver's license? the answer apparently is, no, it's not illegal. it just shows how these prisoners who had haley barbour's support were just given all these things that were -- it's crazy. >> the former security chief is a guy named whalen adams. he said, yeah, i did take some of them. i knew that they were going to be paroled. i was assured of that so i just took them to get their driver's license. i figured if i went to get them a driver's license, it would speed things up on them getting a job and that was the only reason. i was just trying to help. >> house nice. do you think haley barbour's wife, do you think she had inside information about what was going to happen, like when they were going to be released and she ought to pick up the phone and call a car dealer and get it set up for them? why is this going on? who are these people? what was the relationship? what was the governor's wife doing? >> the sad thing is when you talk to the family members of the victims, they actually got no notification that they were going to be released, that many of them were absolutely stunned that the pardoned men were out. so the idea that there was a whole process that many people not only knew but knew in advance enough to help them, marsha barbour apparently called about getting the cars from a car dealership. then those cars were delivered to the governor's mansion for the men. >> so this analysis starts from a very black and white perspective and gets grayer as you go. legally, black and white, it's not illegal for him to do this. politely it gets grayer. morally it gets greer. jeff calls it crazy. they say they're christians. this is part of the process. >> the sad thing about this whole story is that it's going to lead to fewer pardons. governors are going to say, forget it. there are 2 million people in custody in this country. a lot of them shouldn't be there. a lot of people should be pardoned. we should be pardoning nonviolent drug offenders, not convicted murderers. that's what's such an outrage. >> do you think they have an opinion about this? >> i wouldn't hold my breath. >> i'm sure if he did he'll hold a press conference. i think for the victims, family members, that's just yet another pile on of insult to injury. still ahead this morning on "starting point," we're going to talk about poverty in america. the conversation about why women and children are suffering more. we're going to talk to tava smiley straight ahead. talk about burning bridges, a fallout over this wall street executive's parting shot to his former bosses at goldman sachs. he didn't read his piece in "the new york times", i'll tell you this, he wrote it and then didn't go back to work. we're going to talk to the man who literally wrote the book on goldman sachs and we'll talk about the company's culture straight ahead. you're watching "starting point." snoo [ male announcer ] this is lawn ranger -- eden prairie, minnesota. in here, the landscaping business grows with snow. to keep big winter jobs on track, at&t provided a mobile solution that lets everyone to accounting, to keep big winter jobs on track, initiate, bill, and track work in real time. you can't live under a dome in minnesota, that's why there's guys like me. [ male announcer ] it's a network of possibilities -- helping you do what you do... even better. ♪ ♪ we are pea just going to play all of stevie wonder's music this morning. that's off of tava smiley's list. we're going to talk to him about the new face of poverty and some of the statistics about women and children in poverty. that is straight ahead. we have to look at some of the headlines making news. christine romans is back. >> good morning, soledad. this just in to cnn. 351,000 jobless claims were filed for the first time last week. that's a good number. slightly lower than we were expecting. the number of claims the previous week though is revised up to 365,000. both still well below that key 400,000 mark. levels we haven't seen since 2007 in general. it's a sign the labor market is heading in the right direction. breaking news from afghanistan. hamid karzai wants afghan troops to take over the lead security role in 2013, a year ahead of schedule. he also reportedly told defense secretary leon panetta in a meeting today he wants u.s. and nato forces to move out of afghan villages and remote areas and back on to bases. it follows the massacre of 16 civilians allegedly by a u.s. army soldier in kandahar province. more than 23 people found dead this morning in syria. rebels say bodies were shot, blindfolded, and tied up with clear marks of torture. cnn's ar roy dawa damon has rec footage. a large family killed. one child manages to escape. i'm warning you here, this report contains scenes you might find disturbing. >> reporter: suddenly on another floor a tiny wimper. the child cries out clearly terrified. he comes into view having to crawl over a body lying in the doorway. he must have been hiding for days. don't be afraid. you're safe now. don't make a sound, one of the men tells the boy. it's not known who killed his family or why, but the men who found the bodies are sure this was a sectarian massacre carried out by thugs allied to the regime. >> today is one year since the bloody uprising began that started the violent crackdowns by the assad regime. reporters are swarming former governor rob blagojevich as he left his home in chicago last hour. blagojevich on his way to federal prison in colorado to serve a 14 year sentence for trying to sell president obama's senate seat. a press conference yesterday seemed frankly more like a political rally for a rock star than a disgraced politician. >> i have to go do what i have to go do and this is the hardest thing i've ever had to do. >> blagojevich is the second consecutive illinois governor imprisoned for corruption. it'll be a while before he'll be in front of the cameras again. south by southwest was very good for emerging and established tech companies who got a big boost from this year's interactive. hundreds used the event to find customers, investors, business allies. a highlight of south by southwest, by the way, today, the boy, bruce springstein will speak at the festival today delivering a keynote on the next big thing. sounds pretty awesome. thank you very much. appreciated that. we're going to talk about poverty this morning. some startling numbers to get to. 23 million women affected by poverty. in fact, if you look at the numbers in the breakdown, 46.2 millions living in poverty in 2010. an increase of 27% since 2006 and more than half of those total numbers are women. this sunday at new york university author and broadcaster tavis smiley is going to moderate an all woman panel. a national conversation on women and children in poverty. it will be televised on pbs march 28th i think and cspan in april. tavis smiley, good to see you. poverty is a conversation people don't like to have. it makes people uncomfortable and they're left out of the public discourse. everyone focuses on the middle class and the other people don't matter in this. when you look at the statistics what are the most shocking statistics to you? >> that we are a nation that is allowing its women and children to fall into poverty faster than any other group. that's unacceptable to me. to your point, the worst thing you can do to poor people is to make them feel or to render them invisible. that's the problem by not talking about this issue. it seems to me that there's a bipartisan consensus in washington. that's impossible to do on anything, but a bipartisan consensus, soledad, that poverty just doesn't matter. that the poor don't count. so something has got to be done about that. when women and children are falling faster than any other groups in the country, something is wrong. 2009 to 2010 a million children fell into poverty. half a million into extreme poverty. >> when you look at the statistics, it's just under $23,000 a year for a family of four counts as poverty. when you think of the number of people who actually probably aren't counted officially in those poverty ranks, the stats are one in four kids are in poverty. it's probably really higher by what we would consider to be poor and struggling families. your panel is all women at nyu. what's the whole point of having this conversation? >> first of all, when you talk about women's issues, i quite frankly am tired of men talking about women's issues. >> said as a man. interesting. >> yeah. >> table full of men. >> yeah. right. >> this contraception debate. >> where's the sisterhood. >> you turn on cspan, all the networks, there are men in washington talking about this issue. one, i'm the person asking the questions, teeing it up for the women. >> what's the most important thing the government could do to make progress on poverty? >> first of all, make poverty a priority. there ought to be a national plan not just to reduce it, but to eradicate it. we are a better nation than to have one out of two americans living in poverty. there ought to be tax incentives and tax credits for women. i have a book coming out in a matter of weeks that lays out, dr. cornell west and i, the book called "the rich and the rest of us." ." a real poverty manifest stowe. >> let me ask you this real quick. can we set aside the statistics, set aside the term poverty because it has limited skrimttive value. describe poverty for me. >> that's a very good question. what i try to point out is that we have in this country not just a poverty of opportunity by a poverty of affirmation. a poverty of truth. a poverty of hope in this country. it's not just poverty that we think of in not having enough access to cash. >> not finding your next meal? >> absolutely. the numbers are clear. you talk to anybody from feeding america, there are more americans now who are fighting just to have -- >> you're talking about something more than that you're saying? >> food and security is a very real issue. it's not just money, it's affirmation, hope, opportunity at this point. it's all of those things. not just typical poverty that we think. the other thing is too often poverty has been color coded. the new poor in this country are the former middle class. so this election season you can't get away just talking about the angst of the middle class. you have the perennially poor. you have the new poor and you've got the near poor. you put all that together, half of americans are either in or near poverty. so this color coded notion of poverty and the fact that we think poor people are black and brown, that doesn't work anymore. >> i did an interview with a couple of kids not long ago. they were college freshmen. i said to them, so, you know, tell me what's the greatest thing about being in college as a college freshman halfway through the first year? they both said, i get fed three meals a day. it's the first time i haven't been hungry. i thought they were going to say, immeeting girls. i said, oh, my god. the other one said, there's heat. i now have heat in my house all the time. we don't have to come home sometimes and put on coats and go to bed in our full winter gear. to me i think that was your question. what does poverty mean? >> what's it look like. >> i've covered a lot of poor people as a reporter. that was absolutely floored me. >> they're going to be met after college is realizing that student loan debt as you know has exceeded credit card debt. that's what they're up against when they graduate. >> how much -- we appear to be in some kind of economic recovery. no one knows how fast here. but how much will that help and how much will that not help? zero? >> do you think it's zero. >> why not be raised by that? >> the uptick in the economy is not going to do anything to deal with the kind of poverty that i saw on this poverty tour that we took last summer. the school of public and environmental affairs has a white paper that says when the economy starts to uptick, because of the masses of the poor in this country, because of the long-term nature of that poverty, even as the economy starts to uptick, it's going to do nothing about poverty. we have to get serious about not just reducing but eradicating. if we think a slight uptick is doing something, those millions who are not even looking for work anymore, we're missing how bad this really is. very quickly, i believe, this is not hyperbole, i believe the future of our democracy is going to be how seriously we take this. >> thanks for joining us. thanks for joining our panel of all men. nice to have you. still ahead this morning on "starting point," we're going to talk about from poverty to goldman sachs. wow. the fallout this morning. >> the have gots. >> the have gots, i guess. the fallout from that op ed from a former employee and he's former now because he wrote that op ed and quit. he said the company is toxic greed and he said that eventually could bring down the bank. we'll talk about what's happened after that. you're watching "starting point." back in just a moment. ♪ oh! 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[ male announcer ] it's chevy truck month. now get 0% financing for 72 months when you purchase a 2012 chevy silverado custom sport. or trade in your eligible vehicle to get a total value of $6,000. are you still sleeping? just wanted to check and make sure that we were on schedule. the first technology of its kind... mom and dad, i have great news. is now providing answers families need. siemens. answers. ♪ well i dreamed i saw the knights in armor come and saying something about a queen ♪ we have a very diverse play list. that's from william cohen's play list. goldman sachs of course is responding to that op ed. the op ed heard around the world i think it's fair to call it. yesterday we told you about the goldman sachs employee, guy named greg smith, who quit in the pages of "the new york times." he called the environment at goldman sachs toxic and destructive. here's a little bit of what he wrote from his op ed. it's fascinating. when the history books are written about goldman sachs, they may reflect that the current chief executive officer, lloyd c. blankfein, the president, gary cohn, lost hold to the firm's culture on their watch. i truly believe this decline in the firm's moral fiber represents the single most serious threat to its long-run survival. another little snippet, it makes me ill how callously people talk about ripping their clients off. over the last 12 months i've seen five different managing directors refer to their own clients as muppets. sometimes over internal e-mail. how about this one. i hope this can be a wake-up call to the board of directors. make the client the focal point of your business again. without clients, you will not make money. in fact, you will not exist. weed out the morally bankrupt people no matter how much money they make for the firm and get the culture right again so people want to work here for the right reasons. goldman sachs responded with an internal memo that read in part this, in a company of our size, it is not shocking that some people could feel disgruntled, but that does not and should not represent our firm of more than 30,000 people. goldman's stock was down 3.4% in trading yesterday wiping $2.2 billion off of its market value. nice to have you to talk about all of this. >> nice to be here, soledad. >> what do we know about this guy, greg smith. >> virtually nothing. >> does that surprise you? >> well, no. i mean, it does surprise me that people don't know who a relatively junior vice president is at goldman sachs. there's 30,000 people. i did write a history of goldman sachs. he's talking about when the history of goldman sachs is written. of course he's not somebody that they're going to let me talk to or that i'm going to come across in the normal course of business. 9 fact of the matter is, he's right about a lot of what he writes about. the culture has changed, but as i write in my book, i mean, goldman sachs's culture has always been on the edge. they have always been looking out for goldman sachs. i could tell you stories that would make your blood boil from 1929 and 1930 when they created something called the goldman sachs trading corporation which lost people hundreds of millions of dollars and eddie cantore, the comedian, made goldman sachs the brunt of jokes for five years. >> isn't the issue, i should mention the book you're talking about is called "money and pow joer, how goldman sachs came to rule the world." isn't the shift in culture, it used to be about the clients? yes, making money, it's an investment bank. >> these are not charitable organizations. >> but now it seems like he's saying you used to include your clients. >> no, i disagree with that strongly. it has always been about making money and they make money from their clients. it has always been that way. now they used to be what they called long-term greedy because if you were an investment banking organization as opposed to a trading organization, which goldman has become more of a trading organization than an investment banking organization, you need your clients long term. you need ibm to be a client of yours for a long time to make money. >> isn't what's so damaging about that piece, saying they're greedy, as you say, who cares. >> that's not a big deal. >> that's america. >> what struck me as so bad for the firm is that he's saying the people who give us their money, our clients, we are screwing them. >> that's right. >> that's a bad thing. and do you think that's true? >> but the other side of that. if the clients keep coming back, clearly they feel like they are gaiting some kind of a deal, right? >> i think there's a couple of things going on. i think in the trading culture that goldman sachs has become it's more of a short-term relationship with a client. you are a counter party as opposed to a client. you are an attorney. you can understand the nature of a client as opposed to a counter party. that's very different than a client. in every trade somebody wins, somebody loses. goldman, you know, provides services to its counter parties. it makes markets. it provides capitol. it takes risks that nobody else on wall street will do. why do clients keep coming back, soledad? if you look after this financial crisis, we lost bear stearns four years ago. lehman brothers, merrill lynch isn't what it was. morgan stanley isn't what it once was leaving goldman sachs alone. why do they come there? because no one else will do for them what goldman sachs will do. >> greg smith, what does he do now? we were sort of joking that now he goes and becomes a kindergarten teacher in japan. he's done -- first, where was he on the hierarchy. >> he was a vice president. >> so -- >> mid level but making, as you pointed out, $500,000 which is not, you know, peanuts by any stretch of the imagination. but he had been there for 12 years. he probably, you know, wanted to become a managing director or a partner managing director, did not make that so we don't know -- >> because they just did bonuses. this letters comes right after bonus season ended. >> this reminds me of cass is a blank ka. there's gambling going on. round up the usual suspects. he didn't get what he wanted. he took an ad in "the new york times." >> we don't know. >> he took an ad in "the new york times" to say i'm leaving, good-bye. >> people don't leave wall street voluntarily. very, very rarely. if this guy woke up and said, i've had enough. i'm taking off my ear phones, i'm out of here, that's it, i can't take it anymore. >> 12 years. >> like network, he just got his bonus. you're absolutely right. whether it was a big bonus or a small bonus, whether if it wasn't he wanted. >> what does he do now? >> now if he's not in the witness protection program, he better get a book deal before he becomes yesterday's news. >> nice to have you. we're going to keep you around for the commercial break so we can continue the conversation. let's get a look at carol. "cnn newsroom" straight ahead this morning. >> it was pretty darn interesting. hi, soledad. coming up at 9:00 eastern we'll have the latest on rob blagojevich and his one-way ticket to colorado. he begins his 14 year prison sentence. we'll talk with a times reporter. today she might write her last blago story for quite some time. plus we'll talk to the parents of one soldier in afghanistan. that's all coming up in the "cnn newsroom" at 9:00 a.m. eastern. sfloo and share your first car story at firstcarstory.com. courtesy of the 2012 subaru impreza. experience love that lasts. ♪ metamucil uses super hard working psyllium fiber, which gels to remove unsexy waste and reduce cholesterol. taking psyllium fiber won't make you a model but you should feel a little more super. metamucil. down with cholesterol. all right. take a look at this videotape. this is a deli owner in oregon. he's confronted by a would-be rob jert. surveillance video. he sprayed him with mace. that made the owner madder. he grabs a baseball bat and clobbers the robber senseless and chases him out of his store. apparently it was completely out of control and all caught on tape which is why we're sharing it with you this morning. all to tell you that our end paint is co point with our panel. >> announcer: this is the day. the day that we say to the world of identity thieves "enough." we're lifelock, and we believe you have the right to live free from the fear of identity theft. our pledge to you? as long as there are identity thieves, we'll be there. we're lifelock. and we offer the most comprehensive identity theft protection ever created. lifelock: relentlessly protecting your identity. call 1-800-lifelock or go to lifelock.com today. forty years ago, he wasn't looking for financial advice. back then, he had something more important to do. he wasn't focused on his future but fortunately, somebody else was. at usaa we provide retirement planning for our military, veterans and their families. now more than ever, it's important to get financial advice from people who share your military values. call now for our free guide and tips on planning for your retirement this tax season. who have used androgel 1%, there's big news. presenting androgel 1.62%. both are used to treat men with low testosterone. androgel 1.62% is from the makers of the number one prescribed testosterone replacement therapy. it raises your testosterone levels, and... is concentrated, so you could use less gel. and with androgel 1.62%, you can save on your monthly prescription. 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Mail ,Memo ,New York Times ,Employees ,Grievances ,Op Ed ,Lloyd Blankfine ,Opinion ,Her ,Fe ,Whiping ,Many ,Market Value ,Feedback ,Shares ,Stock ,The Firm , 2 Million ,2 Million ,Guys ,Girls ,Value ,Booze Cruise ,Dow Yesterday ,Nation S Capital ,Drinkers ,New York ,Howaboutwe Com ,Number One ,Singles ,Rounding ,Austin ,34 ,It Doesn T ,Drinks ,City ,Drinking Singles ,Texas ,Boston ,Vegas ,Gambling ,Nuts ,Shocking ,Way ,Places ,Drink ,Vague ,Corruption ,Favors ,Donations ,Process ,Reporters ,Press Conferences ,Lesson ,Lessons ,Humility ,Criminal ,Lobbyist ,Book ,Capital Punishment ,Four ,Media Strategy ,Beginning ,Frankly ,Some ,Conviction ,Littleton ,Englewood Federal Prison ,Door ,Possessions ,Blagojevich ,Clothes ,Inmates ,Family ,Celebrity ,Most ,Box ,Prison Garb ,Jeff Skilling ,Criminals ,Crimes ,Collar ,Drug ,White Collar Criminals ,Facilities ,Reputation ,Head ,White Collar ,Wife ,Rules ,Authorities ,Thought ,List Listen ,Everything ,Effect ,Sentencing Hearing ,Joke S Ad ,Name 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