0 connecticut, thank you very much for joining us tonight. that is all in on this wednesday night. the rachel maddow show starts tonight. tonight. connecticut, thank you very much for joining us tonight. that's "all in." the rachel maddow begins right now. >> thanks for joining us this hour. happy to have you here. itg is a very simple progressi. i'll tell you the bottom line, it is still notn. early to figu outit how this is all going to d ultimately, but in terms of where we are now, it is easy, it is very, very, it's logical and straightforward, to figure out where we are in this story. because these are the questions we now know to ask. question number one. was it illegal? if the answer is yes, it was illegal, then the next question is, did they know it was illegal? if the answer was yes, they knew it was illegal, then the next question is, did they try to pull it off anyway? if the answer to that is yes, they tried to pull it off anyway, my next personal question is always, well, when you try to pull it off, was it occasionally hilarious? whether or not the answer to that is yes, then the next obvious question is did it get caught? and then the final question is, will they get inen trouble for ? that is pretty simply where we are, and how, sort of how we know a how to orient ourselves,n this ongoing saga which will be our generation's story in american history. was it illegal? did they know it? did they do it anyway? is it ridiculous when they did? did they get caught? will they get in trouble? now, the answer to all of the first five questions, we now know, is yes, and the last one that is uncertain. in this particular part of the plot to overthrow the u.s. government, i didn't really expect to be talking about this as our lead story tonight. it surprised me as mu as it surprised anyone today that we learned the fbi started showing up at all of these guy's houses, today of all days so that makes it hardly a story, here we are. let's get to it. you might have seen the headlines today about the january 6th investigation.yo there is still a hearing planned for tomorrow. that's the one about them, folks trying to put people involved in the plot to overthrow the election in charge at the justice department, specifically so they could use the justice department to help overthrow the government. that next hearing is still planned for tomorrow, 3:00 p.m. eastern time and of course tomorrow night3: here at 8:00 eastern, we will be doing our special prime time recap of that hearing. so that is still on. but we had expected that after hearing tomorrow, they would do the rest of their hearings next week. the january 6th investigators had said explicitly that they had planned to do awful their hearings in june, they planned to done with all of the hearings in in this calendar month. that is no longer the plan. especially when they started showing up the public what turned up in the investigation, in the blockbuster hearings that have had millions of americans watching every one, apparently that has sort of opened the flood gate and they announced they have received so much new evidence just since the hearings started, that they need time to incorporate it into their findings. and so yes, there is still that 3:00 p.m. hearing tomorrow, but then, no hearings after that, for aen few weeks. after tomorrow, they're going to pick back up with them, only starting, apparently, maybe mid july. so what's all this new evidence that they're getting, that has to make this big change in the schedule and to decide to extend the hears much deeper into the summer? in terms of what we know they have received, in terms of what they told us they have received that is new, "politico" was first to report yesterday that the trumpco family apparently h arranged for a documentary film maker to closely shadow them, including the president, starting in september, 2020, after the election, in november 2020,on and then thereafter, as the presidenten refused to recognize the results to the election, as he plotted to overthrow the government, and stay in power anyway, right through january 6th itself, and even after january 6th toward theev inauguration. a british documentary film maker and his crew, they were apparently with president trump and his adult children throughout that time. learning that, the january 6th investatn subpoenaed that documentary film maker fored basically all of his relevant raw footage. he released a statement yesterday saying he has hired a lawyer and cooperating with the committee, and the upshot is thatit they apparently are gettg everything from it. rolling stoneer was first to that trump white house officials didn't know that guy was doing this film. trump white house officials didn't know that the trumps had allowed thisdn to happen, that theyal had all sat for intervie with this guy, let alone around the events of january 6th, which itself is amazing that the white house more broadly didn't know that people didn't sign off, that this was apparently like a trump family project. but that footage, which sounds like from a subpoena like a lot of footage is part of the new material the january 6th investigators just started to receive that they have to review, that t is part of the reason the next hearings are delayed and the chairman of the investigation bennie thompson says the investigation has received a tide of new tips and new information from the public and you will recall at the close of one of the hearings that the committee has a tip line and you can call in and let them know about any evidence you may have that you think you want them to see. chairman thompson has specifically mentioned that they have lots of new material, new evidence that they need to process, from the national archives, from the national archives and records administration. now, what is that? what's that likely to be? this could mean new documents from the trump white house that are just being cleareds now fo release to the investigation. all white house documents, all presidential l papers, go throu the national archives, are handled by the national archives so that is always an intriguing possibility that the community has just received a big new dump of material from the trump white house that they didn't have before. but i also feel like i should point out one other thing here, that that could be, in addition to hand ling all of the documents from the former presidency, from the trump white house, the national archives also has had its own role in this investigation. they have also had their own investigators working on unraveling a specific part of the plot to overthrow the government and it's the part that relates to this. these are the forged document, the counterfeit electoral college votes that the trump campaign had sent into the archives from search different states, all states won by joe biden, all states where the electoral college votes are going to beel cast for joe bide but the trump campaigns nevertheless directed this effort where they tried to cast trump votes from these states that trump didn't win, sort of counterfeited these electoral slates. we were able to turn up correspondence from the national archives to state officials in these states, basically notifyings state officials, he just be aware, yeah, we got your real elector certificates once youre sent them in but you shou know that we got a fake set as well that somebody is trying to pass off as real. these fake padocuments, these forged documents, with fake electoral votes, this part of the plot has since emerged as part of potential criminal prosecution in at least two states and the federal level, and national archives investigators, as they have investigators, they have reportedly been accompanying fbi agents who have been investigating this matter on behalfat of federal prosecutorsf the u.s. department of justice, so when the committee said this, need to delay their next set of hearings, they will extend theirse hearings into ju, more material to deal with it and it is important and need to they say and when some of the new material it from the national archives, new information coming in from the national archives, that is of interest. it's of interest because it could be more white house materials, it could also be something that relates to the national b archives specificall, especially because the january 6th investigation keeps rolling out all of this new stuff they have found about these fake electoral slates that were sent to the national archives. so for example, on the first question, is it illegal? the first question here, was it illegal?qu did they know it was illegal? thega january 6th investigators resounding yes on both of those. the january 6th investigators have shown testimony that not only did the white house counsel's office conclude that the fake electors plan was illegal, the white houseth counsel's office formally notified white house chief of staff mark meadows and trump's lawyer rudy giuliani, and all of the other people who happened to be allowed into their meeting about it,ruot the white house counsel's office told them outright at the white house that the fake electors thing was illegal. it was illegal.e they knew it was illegal. the january 6th investigate verse shown testimony from not one but two top trump campaign lawyers concluding themselves that the fake electors plot was illegal and explaining that they themselves refused to work on thatth part of the plot, becaus it was illegal, and they wanted nothing to do with it. they have even shown that trump lawyer john eastman who appears to be pushing the fake electors plot most aggressively on trump's behalf that in writing the fake electors plot was dead on arrival, since the fake electors aren't actually a legal thing. so the january 6th investigators have answered the most crucial questions here resoundingly even them showing that all of the lawyers knew it was illegal. so people who participated, some of the people who signed their names on these forged document, who signed up to be the fake electors, they asked, as they did so, for the trump campaign to please agree in advance to pay their fees in case they sued or arrested forle trying to pul thised off. the key first questions. was itth illegal? yes.s. did they know for sure it was illegal? yes. they knew for sure that it was illegal. next crucial question, did they try to pull it off anyway? of course they tried to pull it off anyway. they did in fact, forge fake electoral college slates of votes. they mailed them in to the national archives as if they were real, hoping they would be counted as if they were real. so was it illegal did they know it? yes. did they try to pull it off anyway? yes. was it occasionally hilarious when they did so. yes. we have been covering this part of trump's plot very closely from the be ving and covering it on the show for month and heading into the hearings where we knew they would address this of the plot, i thought i knew a lot about it and i was confident about the nooks and cranys of the fake electors plot and i definitely did not know this. dy not see this one coming. >> fake electors considered hiding overnight to ensure that they could access the state capitol as required in michigan. >> did mr. norton say who he was working with at all on this effort to have electors meet? >> he said he was working with the president's campaign. he told me that the michigan republican electors were planning to meet in the capitol and hide overnight so that they could fulfill the local casting of the vote, per law, in the michigan chambers, and i told him in no uncertain terms that that was insane and inappropriate. >> planned to meet in the capitol anded hide overnight. yes, was it occasionally hilarious the way they tried to pull it off? yes. as you heard the witness say there, y it was occasionally insane and inappropriate. especially in michigan. sneaking into the capitol, the night before, and hiding out overnight, like in cupboards. so they could pop out and surprise everybody at the right moment and say we have beaten themo real electors to the punc and we're the real electors. or something. like as if that is how presidents are chosen. and tag, you're, it maybe some dodge ball. i have my fingers crossed. doesn't count. absolutely insane. beyond michigan though, we also know that there was this. this is a big text message exchange showed by the january 6th investigators, vice president pence's staffer, the littleid bubbles on the right, u can see the first one, starting the conversation there from thae staffer, sup? as in what's up with? and the left side, bubbles from a chief of staff, chief senator ron johnson. senator ron johnson's staffer says johnson needs to hand something to the vice president, please advise. the response, what is it. >> senator ron johnson's chief of staff says alternate slate of electors. >> do not give that to him. >> thatec was just, these are a time stamped, so you can see this is january 6th in the noon hour, minutes before vice president pence was supposed to actually count the electoral college acvotes, which is actuay having to count the votes for president in this country. senator johnson needs to hand the vice president, to these forged fake electors certificates, how do we do that? what? also, why was senator johnson volunteering to do that? why was he even involved? >> how much did you know about what your chief of staff was doing with the alternate slates of electors? >> no you're not. i can see your phone. i can see your screen. >> can you explain what your chief of staff was doing? >> does your chief of staff still work for you, senator. >> you can explain what happened there. >> that's a complete non-story. i don't know what you're even concerned about here. >> well, they said that your chief of staff is saying that you offered, you wanted to provide -- >> no, this is a staff exchange, and i was basically unaware of it. and the chief of staff contacted the vice president's staff, said do you want this, and they said no, and we didn't deliver it and that's, the end of the story. >> but why was he even asking for this. >> because somebody delivered this to our office and asked about the vice president. >> and did you support his officers to try to get those slates to the vice president. >> no i had no knowledge of this. >> who isat the person who -- >>th i had no involvement in an alternate slate of electors. i had no idea this was going to be delivered to us. delivered staff to staff. my chief of staff did the right thing, contacted the vice president's staff. they said they didn't want it, so he didn't deliver it. that's the end of the story. >> i have no knowledge of this. i don't even know who gave this thing ton' us. i don't have anything to do with it. i didn't ask wherei it came fr. i just w volunteered that i wou but i didn't g, know anything about, and i didn't know who it came from and i didn't't have anything to do withi and i didn't support it d i didn't know what, and giving it to the vice president and hey, i'm a senator and that's one of the things we do. we can deliver mail and packages to the vice president all the time. we hand-deliver mail and packages to the vice president allan the time. sometimes it is cat loss and maybe it is sometimes he really likes and hema likes to go throh the catalogs. and ies take out the recycling sometimes. you know, what else do senators do. >> i'm on the own. >> no you're not. we can see there is nothing happening on the screen of your phone. >> i willno hold this to my fac so you will pretend that you will noticeso that i'm not on t phone and put it down without saying anything. >> senator ron johnson, his explanation for what wasyi goin here, his chief of staff, that he needed to hand something to the vice president, with something that had nothing to do with him, definitely a nonstory. wow. senator ron johnson, always amazing. particularly amazing in his newly apparent role in this part of the plot to overthrow the government. just astonishing. but it also should be noted, this part of it, this line, that we highlighted here, from the senator's chief of staff, senator johnson needs to hand-deliver these fake electors certificates to the vice president because the archivist didn't receive them. we know in fact the archive did receive them. sent registered mail weeks earlier from washington and michigan and referred by the archives, these are in the national archives records, as kyle cheney at "politico" was first to point out earlier today, we know the national archives received these, this is not some lost in the mail problem that senator ron johnson had to sub in at the last moment with the last leg of the pony express. the archive had these. ites is in charge of receiving e actual certified legal votes from the states and gives those real vote to the vice president so he can count them on january 6th. the archivist did that. that's why pence had the real certified votes, physically, to count them on january 6th. the archive sent mike pence the real chvote, the archivist did t give the jump mail, the illegal counterfeit not certified fake electoral slates, too. we know they had them. we know they had received them. they didn't pass that jump on to the actual vice president for the actual counting of the real electoral votes so what senator ron johnson and his office tried to arrange at the last minute before pence started to start the count, that we understand the vice president was supposed to have these but archives didn't get them but senator ron johnson can courier them over himself and hand-deliver them. they werehi using a false claim about the t archives to try to give the t vice president forge fake votes in time for the count. nice. call your office, senator. and turn your phone on this time. so, was it illegal? yes. did they knowwa it? yes. anyway? try it sadly, yes. was it occasionally hilarious when they did so? of course, it was. next crucial question, did they get caught? well, yes. here's a federal judge, ruling that trump's lawyer's john eastn has communications on this matter, must be released to the january 6th investigations that you those communications are evidence ofha a possible crime. yes, they got caught. i mean here's the january 6th investigation, lookingth at thi very closely, starting to reveal findings about it. including trump campaign lawyers, and people who workedc on the scheme for the trump campaign in multiple states saying in their sworn depositions, yes, it was illegal, and they wish they had never had anything to do with it. here is that pained deposition they played excerpts from earlier, a pained deposition from the head of thero republic party, rnc chairman ronna mcdaniel, and previously denied to reporters that they had anythingus to do with the fake scheme but there is ronnat mcdaniel admitting that actually yes thenn rnc helped p the fake electors together and, and that it was trump personally, trump himself, former president himself, who called her personally, and asked her to help with the fake electors scheme. so yes, they got caught. up to and including the president's personalan involvement. and as much discussion as there has been about whether there will be criminal prosecutions for the plot to overthrow the government that has been exposed 6th e january investigation, this part of it, this part of it is where we already know there are multiple federal and stateal criminal investigations under way. you will remember us breaking the news here on this show in january when the michigan attorney general started investigating the federaley electors in her state as a matter of potential violations of state law in michigan. she then referred that matter to federal prosecutors at the u.s. department of justice, infe lat january, you will remember, the deputy at