talk about his faith and all the others have been held hostage for 262 days. good evening. thanks for joining us. we begin in tonight with breaking news, new reporting. the president biden is being steered away from the message many expected him to lean on heavily in thursday's cnn debate and toward something more confrontational seen as kayla tausche has the story joins us now from the white house, what are you learning? >> anderson, we're learning that several prominent democrats have been urging president biden to take a different tack on the economy on thursday's debate stage, arguing that his traditional inclination to lean on his record of accomplishments, the 15 million jobs that were created in the economy that's resisted a recession simply are not landing with voters who continue to be frustrated about the cost of living and have given biden an approval rating on the economy that continues to lag that trump in private conversations with members of the white house and the biden campaign. four sources telling me that they have made this argument directly to biden's team saying that the president needs to go after donald trump for cozying up to corporate america and draw that stark contrast between what his future economic plan would look like and what trump's plan would look like us president biden, when asked by erin that last month, whether the economy had time to turn around, he was defensive and he said, it's already turned around pointing to some of those data points that i just listed about polling potentially being wrong. and americans simply not getting it so certainly there is some frustration on biden's behalf that he's not getting credit where it's due, but he's going to have to strike a balance on the debate stage on thursday of trying to prove that progress has taken place while still acknowledging that many he voters don't feel it. >> would this be a strain, a change in strategy, just for the debate or for the campaign going forward, it's been communicated as a change that needs to happen in the eyes of these sources who are in touch with the white house the campaign over the homestretch of the race, which many see as kicking into high gear with thursday's debate, they argue that the president has not shifted his messaging fast enough. he's continued to lean too heavily on his record, which clearly voters, according into his poll numbers are not agreeing with. now, i reached out to the biden campaign who pointed to a new ad that's running in battleground states in both english and spanish were the president speaks directly to them and he says that he understands their struggled to make ends meet and that things are not the way that they should he is also expected to talk a little bit more about this. the challenges that many americans face. and he's begun talking more about the work that still needs to be done, of course is slogan it's finishing the job. so we've seen a slower shift over the last few months in that messaging. and anderson, but top allies of the white house say it needs to be done faster and sharper. >> all right. kayla tausche, thanks so much for his part of the former president. his supporters have begun taking the traditional pre-debate staff of lowering expectations and praising his opponent. but it's a tradition he can't seem to stick two on thursday, for example, he's adjusted the present biden be a quote, worthy debater by saturday, he was back to completely making stuff up so a little before debate time, he gets a shot the and that's they wanted to strengthen them up so he comes out, he'll come out okay i say he'll come out all jacked up. >> right. all jacked new york times senior political correspondent, bestselling trump biographer maggie haberman joins me now i mean, obviously he has no shame. >> any make stuff up. >> but it's very inconsistent. >> i mean, it's one moment, it's he's a worthy debater. and then it's, he's going to it'd be doing massive menchu cocaine. >> yeah. it's a microcosm of the donald trump and his team that we have seen over nine years now, which is his team wants him to do one thing. he does something else, and he sometimes can stick to the script, but then it goes off of it, which is why predictions of how he is going to actually be in this debate are probably not worth very much. we know that he has been preparing for this debate in the way he does with sort of policy sessions as opposed to classic behind the podium matches. but whether he is going to absorb what he's learning there and whether he is going to come in interrupting president biden less than he did in 2020. and their first debate is an open question because he does it's what he wants to do. >> i want i just want to play something else. you said at the rally over the weekend how should i handle him? >> should i be tough and nasty? or should i be? should i be she say no, should i be tough for nasty and just say you're the worst president in history or should i be nice and calm? and let him speak? >> i mean, do you think does he sort of change in the moment just riffing how he feels in the moment, or is it something he thinks of as he's going to bet that night and just thinks in his head doesn't tell anybody like some some i think sometimes he plays around these things on his own. i think sometimes times as you see, he pulled tests it because he thinks it's going to please whatever crowd he's in front of whatever's on his mind is often what he does with these crowds. and it could be anything, it could be he has been pole testing everyone about vp at various fundraisers and this is along the same leinz i was thinking though as he was saying that i think he will be both. i think he will likely interrupt less because i think that's the lesson main less neto it from the last debate or their first debate in 2020. and i think he will be very mean toward button. i will be very surprised if he is anything other than that i want to bring in scene and political commentators, republican strategist, i should michael singleton also former biden wine hosts communications director kate bedingfield, first of all, what do you make of this new reporting of kayla tausche in your view, should president biden go on the attack rather than lean on his accomplishment? >> yeah. look, i think his primary task in this debate is to show people what the choices and that is, he's got to do that by driving aggressively at trump, going at contrast, taking the conversation to the places where trump is most vulnerable. we know that's abortion. we know that's january 6, and democracy i think he absolutely needs to be aggressive. i am not of the mindset that that means he can't speak about his record in the debate mean part of what he's trying to do is show people that he's done a good job in the first four years and he deserves four more. and so he can absolutely talk about the things he's done to get our economy to a better place than many thought it would be four years ago. but he's got to do it in the contrast frame. he's got to do it by saying donald trump's vision for the next four years would make things more expensive for you. and he's really got to make sure that he's never just talking about his own accomplishment. but driving it to a choice, but that's really what he's trying to do in this debate people, as you know, history shows from components incumbent presidents is very hard, usually in their first debate, even president's fledged and obama, david axelrod has talked about this, who knew that history. >> they still find it hard and part of the reason is because often they do feel a they haven't had people pushing back in their faces for last four years and also they do feel like they want to talk about their accomplishments. even if there's accomplishments may not be felt are perceived by large numbers of people. >> yeah, absolutely. i mean, it's a natural instinct. you can understand if you've been present in the united states for four years, you've been working hard, you've gotten things done, you feel like you want to make a case to the american. >> how do you overcome that? >> it will some of it is about prep, some of it is about working through how you answer a question in a way that drives to the contrast you want and brings trump in and doesn't just make it about reciting a laundry list of accomplishments that are important and meaningful but may not feel in the moment like their lands in people's lives. so it's really thinking about how do you answer a question in a way that brings it back around to donald trump and isn't, doesn't just leave you sort of saying, well, look what i've done and that's enough because it really is about a choice and that's the theory, the biden campaign has had from the outset, right? but the way they win is by drawing this contrast and that when they have the trump versus biden comparison, trump is on palatable. and so that's, he's got a really stick to that in this debate. >> sure. my golf mean trump is even rusty or he has not been in the arena really for the last while he was and he's been talking to i mean, there's been an arenas, but just in long grambling soliloquy is yeah. i mean, look, if it's been awhile for the former president, it's been awhile for the current president. i think it's important for both of these men if i can take an objective analysis here to really drive home with their plans are for immigration and for the economy. >> if i'm advising president biden, i want to be contrite. i want to acknowledge that while thing he's have improved, i get that for most people, you're not filling those things materially. this is what i'm going to do if given another four years, if you're donald trump, you wanna make a contrast from president biden to say, look, he's been given four years, things have not gotten better, things have gotten worse by some metrics. this is what i will do to improve your lot in life. both gentlemen are going to have to wrestle anderson. i would argue you were trying to accomplish two different things if they're wanting to achieve some level of measurable success at the end of this debate. >> but mega i mean, that sounds for rational candidates. yes, that makes sense for what this debate very could easily devolve into. i mean, you don't hear a lot of policy from donald trump. i mean, that's just not what his thing is when you do here and it's an incredibly broad strokes and most of what you hear is him condemning president biden. and i spec that you will continue hearing that. i mean, i also think trump is going to have a different set of arguments against him by president biden than he has had in the past. what what came up over and over and over again when president trump was in office as president, was questions about corruption, questions about investigations he was facing. obviously, there's going to be i think references to the criminal case and i'm sure that you will hear the current president talk about that, but i also think jen o'malley dillon, the campaign manager for joe biden or who is running the campaign, had align with john holman in puck. this morning in an interview where she basically made clear that the contrast is going to be i'm joe biden and i care about you and donald trump only cares about himself and people like him, and that's the, he's a rich guy contrast. and so i do think you are likely to hear the incumbent president deal with that. i don't know what you're going to hear. trump's say in response sure. >> michael, i just want to play something of how the foreign president's claims he has been preparing for the debate and preparing by taking questions from you and others if you think about it, we had a great meeting just now and philadelphia with the at the shop. >> you saw that with all the wonderful people. we just left, faith and freedom in dc. and that was incredible but i'm preparing by dealing with you. your tougher than all of them. >> i mean, it's like i don't think that's true, but if that is true, i mean, that's a gift to the biden ministration, obviously because the soft balls he gets from people at set up events are obvious, like is different. every canada is different when i worked for mitt romney he had a a very, very arduous debate prep process. i wasn't a part of that. that was still growing in my political career. but when i worked for new gingrich, a great debate are really smart guy, deepen the policy stuff. dr. carson was very different. you really happens what a prep candidates where they are and was based upon their strengths and weaknesses. i hope that the trump campaign is focusing on that, but i want to say something here quickly to a maggie was just saying if president biden spends much of his time talking about january 6, were talking about democracy with sand i'm trump doesn't care about you. >> that does not provide an answer for what he's going to do for the next four years. >> if i'm a voter and i'm thinking i already have my opinions on donald trump already have my opinions on joe biden. joe biden is talking about how terrible trump is by trump is saying, okay, but the economy sucks under joe biden, but immigration as a problem i'm under your joe biden, but the world is on fire because of multiple foreign conflicts with aggression from china, with aggressions from russia under joe biden. >> that is a very, very clear contrast. >> i get, bring it up the point maybe once or twice, but if i'm buying, i'm talking about what i'm going to do for the next four years while understanding where people currently are to do the alternative primitive will be a drastic mistake in my opinion president biden does sometimes get tripped up when i mean, i think he has natural inclination to go into details on policy details on things he other legislation he has passed in his long storied career and that can get tripped up. >> and when you're facing somebody who doesn't need to go into any details on any policies i mean, he used to have a policy when he was first running about going to iraq and taking their oil and surrounding the oil fields with soldiers and just sucking all the oil out. >> it made no sense, but how do you argue against that? >> well, some of it i think is under i mean, part of what they're trying to do here is illustrate that trump is not fit to return to the oval office. so i don't think i don't believe you do that by having an extensive policy debate back and forth. i don't think that that's where most of the audience is going to be focused. i think that that takes you down rabbit holes, that sort of feels disconnected from people's lives. we could talk about whether what that means about the state of politics. but i think that that's true. so for some of his biggest political vulnerabilities but also forcing him, i mean, sort of tisha michael's points are forcing him to talk about what are you gonna do for the next four years? what are you gonna do to help people across this country and really taking it to the offensive rather than spending all of that time on the defensive defending himself and his policies the problem with that though, is that trump has been president before. and so they're there for whatever reason and there's a lot of debates as to why a big factors it seems to be the post-covid period. there are a lot of people who feel like their lives were last good in 2019 and trump happen to be president then. and so that's, its, he's button is not facing saying a tabula rasa is facing somebody who has absolutely not. but i also think that's part of biden's task is to remind people of the things that they disliked about trump. the thing that most, the most outrageous immigration language the things that were off-putting to people or motion tree covid riches, which is a hard, which is a lot of people who agree with trump but here's the thing about, but here's the thing about trump's duration policies. they agree with tougher policies. they don't agree or like the most hateful rhetoric, the saying, immigrants poison the blood family separation. >> well, i would agree with getting trunk if biden doesn't have to win on immigration, that's the other thing to remember, right? >> he has to mitigate damage from cellphone immigration. he doesn't to win the debate on immigration and on the crime to of the driving the car if he's driving the conversation to the worst parts of trump's immigration policy that's a good thing for a little their capability phil, thank you. >> sure. michael singleton, maggie haberman, thanks. coming up next, the 360 exclusive conversation, the house speaker emerita nancy pelosi, and what she expected i see on the debate stage and the issue she feels will motivate voters on election day. and later, my conversation with the parents of hersh goldberg-polin, one of the eight americans being held hostage in gaza is disturbing new video of his abduction on october 7 has released what 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