landmark relief bill. the house gearing up for a vote on the $2 trillion plan. it could get to the president's desk as early as tomorrow morning. that's a big deal. as a matter of calendar, it would beat the sunday deadline for renewing programs for the jobless. biden visited a hardware store that will benefit from this kind of support today, and he contrasted this money and the way he is going to deliver it, the new approach here with discredited trump programs where some of the money went the people who just didn't need it. >> an awful lot of that went to bigger businesses that in fact weren't supposed to qualify. in the last administration fired its inspector general. so a lot of money went to people who shouldn't have gotten help. >> we've got several aspects of this story, but we begin immediately with our experts, former governor of vermont and former presidential candidate and also a doctor howard dean, and "washington post" reporter libby casey. good to see both of you. governor, you understand the intersection of basically governance and health as good as anyone in the country. what do you think of what joe biden's doing here? this bill does obviously more than one thing. he is saying he is confident he's loans will go to the people who need hit the time. >> yeah, there is no institute for honesty and competency in government. and biden has both and his predecessor had neither. so the numbers, the poll numbers are incredible about this. obviously democrats think biden is doing a terrific job. the majority of republicans below a certain income level also think he is doing a really good job. this is a really popular bill, and i think the republicans have made an enormous mistake in attacking it so vigorous will. it's probably going to pass without a single republican vote. and if you don't think that's going to be in every campaign ad in 2022, you've got another thing coming. >> yeah. i mean, that brings us exactly to the other piece of reporting i wanted to share, and libby can weigh in on this. republican members of congress, they lost the votes to stop the bill. they've lost part of the message wars, the governor just reminded us, because their own voters have been backing biden on this issue. now they want to align themselves. >> this is a no holds barred pork barrel spending bill. there is more pork in this than all the barbecue joints in tennessee combined. >> it's pork and it's buying off members of congress just so they can get their liberal wish list using coronavirus pandemic as an excuse. >> this is a liberal wish list of liberal spending, just basically filled with pork. >> now on the size of this plan, it is true that liberals and conservatives and economists all agree that in key measures, this is a big spending bill. the effort to taint it as corrupt pork is something of a new talking point. now fist as fact check, the vast majority of the bill is pandemic spending. that's a nonpartisan fact. the local funding is not the kind of earmarks that are typically associated with pork or wasteful federal spending. but this angle isn't just coming from politicians. here is a media figure with a lot of followers himself from shark tank clashing with a democratic lawmaker on cnbc. >> i want to put up my hand and say i'm a taxpayer. i wish you would have fought harder to take out all the pork, because that's what it is. if enough had done that, you would have represented the american people and the people who are unemployed even better than this. this is so wasteful. >> kevin, that's a false narrative that this is full of a lot of pork. >> libby, debates over the size of government and how much the federal government should be doing are fair game. as noted, some of this language is misleading. your view on what is happening to sort of the message over something that republicans have failed to stop? >> republicans are in a tough spot, ari, because some of the things that are in this bill are things they supported just a couple of months ago under president trump. as we heard, you know, just a few moments ago, from governor dean, there are so many republicans across the country who do support this. and so biden is clearly ahead on the messaging of this bill. some democrats i talked to say this is bipartisan, even though they don't have any votes in the senate, the house, most likely tomorrow because we do see republicans of communities across the country, also one governor in particular that i'm thinking of, the governor of west virginia says he thinks they should go big on this. so they can point to that to say look we do have some republicans on board with this, even if they're not in washington. now there is a key thing here. this is a transformational piece of legislation that hits a lot of things that progressives want. and republicans are going to be upset by that. republicans who are budget hawks, a lot of whom frankly aren't going to run again in the senate after this year have concerns about this philosophically. progressives have been able to get into this things that go hand in hand with what americans are dealing with right now. i covered a small population in a rural state for a long time. and something like energy assistance was important to democrats often. they're getting that in here and saying it's needed because of covid. funding to close the homework gap, making sure that more children have access to the internet, something democrats have been talking about a long time ago, but now americans see how pressing and important that is. so it makes sense in their messaging to put in a covid bill because we all know what it's like trying to work and educate from home, ari. >> yeah, governor dean, it raises the question when we talk about this term "bipartisan" what would you rather have, a couple hundred house members we don't need to pass the ball or by latest polling, over ten million republican voters who say they like what biden is doing right now this week? >> i think we'll get into this later, but trump has really realigned the republican party. trump is essentially an authoritarian. i saw there was an article today that talked about the legislature in idaho, one of the most republican states in the country, is now trying to defund the republican attorney general because they wouldn't sign on to this crackpot suit that the attorney general of texas filed to overturn the election. the republican party is in trouble, because they're only appealing to their extremist base, and all that liberal socialist from all those others you put up there, they got nothing to say. they run up the deficit far, far greater than any democratic president has since franklin roosevelt. so they've got nothing to say. all they can do is wine and moan about liberals and liberals and social irs and socialists and liberals. meanwhile, we're eating their lunch because we're helping their constituency and they're not. >> as noted in the polling, some of their constituency is already noticing, and the checks haven't even in that sense arrived. this brings us to another important but in some ways also rooms story of gop infighting. the republican national committee has some issues with donald trump. now they're throwing some business his way. reports the rnc will move a new retreat to mar-a-lago. but that gesture comes amidst a wider clash over money. trump was so upset the rnc is doing what parties do, fundraising off presidents and the party that he sent a legal demand that the rnc never mention trump in any fundraising with a formal cease and desist request. trump is basically going three three six mafia on his own party, telling them keep my name out your mouth. and that may sound even a touch gangster, but the rnc responded by refusing, telling donald trump they actually have every right to refer to public figures under law. the rnc effectively finishing the same three six mafia line that trump started, telling him you don't know what you're talking about. i bring governor dean back in. everyone knows the passion you have for the great three six mafia group. we don't have to get into all of their lyrics tonight, governor. but i quote them affectionately because trump is trying to talk tough, saying don't ever even mention me for money. they're saying no. and it sort of speaks to the grifterism that's become publicly confessed on his side. he doesn't care about funding the republican party. he doesn't want them to get a dime, governor. >> well, trump is the republican party right now. and a lot of the republicans are incredibly uncomfortable, including whom i strongly suspect four out of the five senators who have announced their retirement. shelby i think would have retired any way. the othes i think would not have. they've got a big problem. the more likely you are to have a primary and lose it. i can't wait to see what happens in ohio which is a conservative leaning right state but not a crackpot state. they're going to have a tremendous primary, and it's going to be incredibly bloody, and i think we got a shot at picking up a senate seat in ohio. you know, trump only cares about himself. and one of the thing the gop has now discovered is he does not care about them, and they do not know what to to be it. >> yeah, libby, this wasn't some far away minor skirmish. it's playing out in public with the cease and desist, and it comes just weeks after donald trump faced the most bipartisan condemnation in an impeachment process ever, and many, many republicans went out of their way to save his bacon there so he at least can run again if he wanted to. and this is the thanks they get politically. >> well, that first speech he gave, he name-checked those republicans who voted to convict him or voted to impeach him. republicans, the rnc have two big problems on their hands beyond branding and marketing and using donald trump's name. it's like donald trump is fundraising on his own and trying to encourage people to send money through him, not to republicans, who, you know, there is intention there about how the money would be used and who controls it. and then of course the question of whether he will run for president again, because that freezes the field. it essentially holds the rnc hostage to his decisions, his timetable, and anyone else who wants to run is beholden to trying to figure out what he is going to try to do next. >> yeah. libby casey, thank you. howard dean returns later in the hour for a special piece we have. right now is our shortest break, 30 seconds. coming up, we are going to speak. we've got a lot of reports, but coming up next, melissa murray, after this. can actually attract pet hair? with bounce pet hair & lint guard, your clothes can repel pet hair. one bounce mega sheet has 3x the hair fighting ingredients of the leading dryer sheet. simply toss into the dryer to bounce out hair & lint. look how the shirt on the left attracts pet hair like a magnet! pet hair is no match for bounce. it's available in fresh scent & unscented. with bounce, you can love your pets, and lint roll less. breaking news in the biggest manhunt related to the january 6 riot. the fbi releasing new surveillance videos of a man planting pipe bombs outside the dnc and rnc headquarters. this is the night before the now infamous riot and insurrection. you're looking at these videos. the fbi is hoping these videos may lead to new tips, the reward up to $100,000. meanwhile, the feds accusing a rioter on january 6 with none other roger stone. court documents describe him as a lifetime member of the controversial oath keepers militia. videos showing the man arriving as a security guard for stone. as promised, we now turn to nyu law professor melissa murray. when you look at someone like roger stone, he is both well-known in american politics and i think on television and elsewhere as a fabulist who admits to lying and all sorts of controversies. he was pardoned, many remember for his role in the russia probe. this seems like something where could be wrong place, wrong time, but he's not exactly playing it up. he seems to be trying to get out from under it. >> that definitely seems to be the case. again, what we know now is pretty limited stuff about the scope of this investigation. we know that some individuals who are close to stone and other members of the trump world have been linked to the riot, have been charged with being on the capitol grounds during the riot. and i think right now a lot of this is really to sort of try and find out what the scope of the involvement, not just of these low level rank and file rallier, but maybe even those further up were on that day in january. >> yeah. take a look for "the new york times," noting the fbi finding these contacts with the proud boy members. quote, it underscores, they say, the access the violent extremist groups were having to the white house and to people close to the former president. how do investigators, how does law enforcement probe the difference between what politicians often say, which is hey, you go somewhere, there is a lot of people around, you know, you're trying to get to 51%, and whether this is the kind of thing that is more of a legal or criminal matter? >> well, with the individual who has been charged here, roberto minuta, it's more a passerby or someone you come into contact with at an event. this is someone charged with being part of security detail for roger stone. and roger stone has had very significant ties with the oath keepers, a right-wing militia group that roberto minuto is also associated with. i think again, with minuta within the investigation and the range of prosecutors, you can press him a little more to find out what the links are to roger stone and what stone's involvement might have been on january 6 and from there maybe push even further and go up the chain. >> does it strike you as surprising or brash after everything mr. stone went through facing a major prison sentence, that he only got out of by virtue of his political, personal loyal relationship with the sitting president, that he would be out doing other things that would seem to give him such legal exposure? most people don't get out from under long sentences like he did. >> that's sort of the point of being a fabulist, right? you never know when the gig is up. as you say, roger stone's luck may have worn out at this point. he was very clearly getting a great break when he was pardoned on those seven federal charges of which he was convicted, but that pardon would not go so far as to include whatever might come from an investigation around the events of january 6. he would be completely newly exposed to criminal liability for whatever happened on the 6th. so, again, this just may be the kind of person he thinks he has nine lives, he thinks he can get away with it. but that pardon only goes so far. >> pardon only goes so far. and whatever that treatment he got, it was a lawful pardon, although controversial. he has no expectation of the same kind of sweetheart special loopholes right now with the federal government. so it's really remarkable. professor murray, thank you as always. >> thank you. we have a lot more coming up, including news tonight on what might be the secret to the biden agenda succeeding, and a breakdown on red state democrats. we're going get into why political mass shows something wrong with conventional wisdom about some of the democrats who may stand in biden's way. that's coming up. and take. it. on... ...with rinvoq. rinvoq a once-daily pill can dramatically improve symptoms... rinvoq helps tame pain, stiffness, swelling. and for some rinvoq can even significantly reduce ra fatigue. that's rinvoq relief. with ra, your overactive immune system attacks your joints. rinvoq regulates it to help stop the attack. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious infections and blood clots, sometimes fatal, have occurred... ...as have certain cancers, including lymphoma, and tears in the stomach or intestines, and changes in lab results. your doctor should monitor your bloodwork. tell your doctor about any infections...and if you are or may become pregnant while taking rinvoq. take on ra. talk to your rheumatologist about rinvoq relief. rinvoq. make it your mission. if you can't afford your medicine, abbvie may be able to help. dad, it's a video call. if you can't afford your medicine, hold the phone in front of you. how's that? 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(burke) get a whole lot of something with farmers policy perks. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ ♪ for every idea out there, that gets the love it should ♪ ♪ there are 5 more that don't succeed ♪ ♪ and so are lost for good ♪ ♪ and some of them are pretty flawed ♪ ♪ and some of them are slightly odd ♪ ♪ but many are small businesses that simply lack the tool ♪ ♪ to find excited people who will stop and say 'that's cool'♪ ♪ and these two, they like this idea ♪ ♪ and those three like that one.♪ ♪ and that's 'cause personalized ads ♪ ♪ find good ideas for everyone ♪ were you really prepared to tank this bill, president biden's top legislative priority if you didn't get what you wanted? >> absolutely not. that's not how negotiations should go. and if you want to make it a little bit more painful, make him stand there and talk, i'm willing to look at any way we can, but i am not willing to take away the involvement of the minority. >> democratic senator joe manchin has been emerging as a crucial swing vote for joe biden's agenda in washington. with talk that he could be key not only on this economic relief, like last week's negotiation, but on many issues to come if he keeps holding out his vote from the democratic majority. but some of the conventional wisdom about all of this may be dead wrong. i'm talking here about political math. manchin is from a state, west virginia, that voted against biden by over 30 points. many saw his holdout last week as a political strategy to help him try to hold on to those conservative voters by distinguishing himself from the democratic president. but what if that attack itself is wrong? there are implications for manchin, for the democrats, and a 50-50 senate, perhaps for much of biden's agenda and u.s. policy over the next fewer years. now manchin has been quick to differentiate himself, not just on covid, but on hypotheticals he doesn't even have to answer like not being the 50th democratic vote to fundamentally reform the supreme court, something he got into just days after biden's win. >> i will not be the 50th democrat voting to end that filibuster or to basically stack the court. >> this has become a common manchin move from that covid spending bill to trying to get national attention to show that he is different from biden, from picking what may sound like an obscure clash over blocking new biden infrastructure spending, unless republicans are included. now of course senators can tak