special counsel's office is doing to hold trump accountable for trying to overturn the 2020 election. i'm ayman mohyeldin, let's get started. so, barack obama ran on hope and change. ronald reagan professed it is mourning in america, but donald trump, the head of the 2024 presidential election, essentially his campaign around, let's just say, a different kind of theme. one that is much darker. it is retribution. in an interview with univision this week -- if he is elected in 2024, he will use the federal government to punish his critics, weaponize the fbi and doj and the same way he falsely claims federal law enforcement agencies have been weaponized against him. quote, what they've done is they've released the genie out of the box, the former -- don't know what that means, it's usually out of a bottle, but whatever. mixing metaphors, but making his intentions clear. >> if i happen to be president, and i see somebody who's doing well and beating me very badly, i say, go down and indict them. mostly, with that would be -- you know, they would be out of business. they'd be at. they'd be out of the election. >> donald trump's campaign team trying to clean up afterwards, claiming trump didn't mean what he said, but this is not a one-off mistake. it is part of a well documented trend with the ex president. last week reporting from jonathan carl's new book detailed how behind closed doors, trump has actually mused about prosecuting his enemies. the difference now is his openly stating, without equivocation, that this is indeed his plan. and what's more, he not only wants to target people like joe biden and laetitia james, the latter of which he called to be prosecuted just this week, but even former allies are now in his crosshairs. anyone who hasn't shown absolute funding loyalty in perpetuity. according to the washington post, trump has told advisers and friends in recent months that he actually wants the justice department to investigate one-time officials and allies who have become critical of his time in office, including, but not limited to, is former chief of staff john kelly, and former attorney general bill barr, as well as his ex attorney ty cobb, and former joint chiefs of the half, mark milley. this is less mob boss behavior than out an oat cult leader dictator behavior, which is fitting when you remember that trump literally launched his 2024 bid in waco, texas. yeah. that waco. where precisely 30 years prior to his campaign event, fbi agents and texas law enforcement laid siege to an armed religious cult known as the branch davidians. it was led by a -- far-right icon david koresh. and reminiscent of carafes, donald trump -- made it clear that all of his followers should be part of this retribution campaign when he said, quote, they're not coming after me, they're coming after you. we cannot dismiss trump's threats and desires as just words or rhetoric, because he's actually followed through before, targeting former fbi officials peter strzok, lisa cage, all four, in his eyes, working against him to undermine his presidency. if he ruined the professional lives of a handful of federal employees for simply doing their jobs and daring to criticize him, think about what he'll do two americans that he believes are, quote, traders. joining me now are former democratic senator barbara boxer, renee graham, opinion columnist and associated editor at the boston globe -- former federal prosecutor, and an msnbc legal analyst. ladies, it's great to have all three of you with us. senator, i'll start with you, if i may. you know, back in 2016, trump's slogan was make america great again. it could've been construed positively, if you will, depending on who you are and if you didn't know the history of that slogan. this time around, less ambiguity, more extremism. >> absolutely. it's the politics of grievance. it's dangerous. it's a page out of the fascist times in europe that i was born around that time. and it is most frightening. and you know, i remember i got to the senate in 1993, and that was the siege that took place in waco. and if anyone just wants to look up what waco is known for, it is known for david caressed taking this group of people who followed him -- he was a cult later. they had a lot of children, and i don't mean to shock people, but i'm telling you the truth, that his wife was 14 years old, and he said he had the right to have children, and the words he did. as young as ten. so this is what was going on, and it was a dark chapter in history. the last thing i'll say now is when he talks retribution, you should look up the definition. he says he's gonna deliver punishment to your enemies, america. so you're afraid of immigrants taking your jobs? i'll take care of it. you don't like equal rights? you want to keep women in their place? you don't like books? i mean, this is a frightening time. but i do believe that the soccer moms and the mainstream american public will see through it. >> rene, what's to take? i think the danger in the retribution rhetoric is not just for those that are sitting on the sidelines and detained by trump's rhetoric and threats against political opponents. but to senator boxer's point, it's the people out there who are saying that retribution now is what we should be doing. and going in taking matters into their own hands to anyone but they perceive to be a threat. as donald trump said, they're not coming after me, they're coming up to you. i'm just standing in the way. and now, these people out there that may follow him, maybe a part of his cult, will turn around and go out and seek retribution in his name. >> well, i think some things that important to remember is that very line. they're not coming after me, but coming after you. that's something donald trump said when he was still president. he was saying that in 2019, during his first impeachment trial. so that's always what that's been about. and what i think is very shocking to me is that even after an insurrection, even after hateful rhetoric during his presidency that in prior -- inspired violence out of pittsburgh, synagogue, at a walmart in el paso, even at two mosques in new zealand, there are still people who somehow deleted themselves into thinking that this is all just really empty talk. you know, he's never pulled the trigger, but his rhetoric already has a body count. and he's trying to add to that. i don't know that there's never been a time in american history that there's been a presidential contender whose entire platform is based on retribution and vengeance. and something we have to also be very mindful of is that when he speaks about his perceived enemies as thugs, and as furman, he's not just echoing the vernacular of authoritarians. he's dehumanizing those who have wronged him. and when you dehumanize people, it is easier to treat them -- >> good point about the dehumanization we see time and time again. trump's justifying his retribution by saying biden, quote, released the genie out of the box. that biden targeted him first, and now he set the precedent -- [inaudible] fani willis, who we should note is a county official in a district in virginia, not someone who works for the federal government, and jack smith, who is an independent special prosecutor. >> you're absolutely right, ayman. and let's take the state prosecution side of it, because they don't report to the department of justice. they are state prosecutors. so even if merrick garland, the attorney general, wanted to -- he has no authority to do that. so let's take him out of the equation. but when you listen to what donald trump is saying, it's hard not to have the reaction, what are we even talking about? but let's acknowledge first that the constitutional structure that puts the department of justice in the executive branch has, time and time again, caused some problems. because whenever the president or the presidents family, or the presidents political opponents, or a member of the presidents cabinet or staff as being investigated for committing a crime, it does create an inherent conflict of interest. and the department of justice and the courts and the administrations, over time, have struggled with that. so we've had independent prosecutors, we've had special counsel's, we've had policies about who at the white house can talk to whom, and in very limited fashion at the department of justice about criminal investigations. we've seen the struggles and how to deal with his inherent conflict of interest. but we have never had before as a leading candidate from one of the two major parties promising to use the department of justice in a way to take retribution. it's simply astonishing. he is running on that platform, and he's running on a platform of fear, saying if they're coming after me, but coming after you. so, let's think about what should a true future leader of a democracy have said, even if he's convinced that he's been wronged by a prosecution that is -- i've been wrong, and this will never ever happen in my administration. instead, he was 180 degrees the opposite. -- it just shows that this is not heading in the right direction. this is not the man who should be the leader of the free world. >> renee, what is the last hope here to stop donald trump from being able to exact his retribution not only on his perceived political enemies, but also as we saw this week, against his allies? revenge against his allies? john kelly, bill barr, even people who served for him in a nonpartisan way like the joint chiefs of staff? is it going to be the law, or is it going to be the elections? >> i'll take either at this point. you know, i was -- simply say this is unacceptable. i really hope that people aren't gonna sit this one out. i feel like the last probably three elections have been the most important in our lifetime. this is on a whole other level when you start talking about that, given the things that donald trump is saying. so i really want him to be rebuked by the voters. but if it comes down to prosecution, i'll happily take it. >> senator, a new piece in the new york times lays out trump's plan for expansion -- immigration if he returns to power in 2025. it reportedly includes rounding up undocumented people already in the united states, detaining them in sprawling campsites while they await to be expelled or deported. your reaction to this reporting? >> it sounds like a page out of the fascist playbook. and, you know, we all know it happened when families were separated. look, we've got issues at the border. we need a surge, you know, the resources to the border and take care of it. people have a right to have a hearing. -- if they don't, yes. you handle them in the right way. but, we all know what's in his heart. his ugliness, it's horrifying. and he even wants to say that even though it's in the constitution, if you're born here, but your parents weren't born here, you can lose your citizenship. i mean, this man is a threat to america. -- >> we're gonna talk to you later on in they are. up next, i'm speaking with the chair of the congressional progressive caucus, pramila jayapal, for her reaction to republicans last-ditch attempt to try to avoid a government shutdown. but before that, richard lui is here with the headlines. >> good evening to. you see breaking news in texas, at least five people would transported to local hospitals but before that, richard lui is here with the headlines. >> good evening to. you see breaking news in texas, at least five people would transported to local hospitals after a shooting at a flea market and houston. but suspect is still at large, there's no word on the conditions of those victims. u.s. military says it conducted strikes on targets in eastern syria for the third time this month. the pentagon says the strikes were in response to attacks on u.s. personnel in iraq and syria. new details about the fbi investigation into new york city mayor eric adams. authorities are looking into whether -- pressured city officials to approve the turkish government 's high-rise consulate building despite safety concerns in 2021. adams has not been accused of any wrongdoing. more ayman with ayman mohyeldin after the break. my husband and i have never been more active. shingles doesn't care. i go to spin classes with my coworkers. good for you, shingles doesn't care. because no matter how healthy you feel, your risk of shingles sharply increases after age 50. but shingrix protects. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness, and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, 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do you think that there will be enough support for this plan among your democratic colleagues to prevent a shutdown? >> well, a man, it is good to see you. i have no idea. we just saw this plan today five days before the government is shut to shut down. it is a laddered cr, whatever that means. it has come to mean that apparently we are going to divide federal government operations into two. we are going to have to fiscal cliffs that we are going ton jay according to this. i do not know where this is going to go. we will stay united behind our leader, hakeem jeffries. i think that we are all looking at it, i think the senate is looking at it and trying to understand. it is unprecedented to divide government funding into two deadlines. i do not understand what the point of that is. i will say that there is a clean continuing resolution. that means that there are not any poison pills, or at least that is what they tell us. we have to see the full language and really understand it in senate. that is what they are saying. if that is the case, at least it does not mean that they are trying to push through a big cut to government spending. it is just outrageous that we are still in this position five days before the government is said to shut down. again, they are passing ridiculous appropriations bills that can never get passed on the senate. i think that all of us feel frustrated that we have wasted so much time, and apparently we are going right down to the line again. >> this is mike johnson's first big test as a speaker. from anything and from everything that you have seen, do you think that he is up to the moment? >> mike came in with me, speaker johnson came in with me. we both came in together. we actually worked on some things together, we worked on getting a program funded that started here in seattle. we took it national, it was called law enforcement assistant diversion. i have some good interactions with speaker johnson. he is smart. he has got the same dynamic as one of my colleagues said, this is same menu different weight, or ayman. he's got the same dynamics that kevin mccarthy had before him. he has got to be in a situation where he is going to need democratic help in the house, probably to pass anything. do not forget that we have a democratic senate and democratic white house. i think that he is probably trying to figure out what the path forward is. that is probably why, if there are no cuts, that is probably why. he realizes that he doesn't need democratic help. it is still the same dynamics of a republican party that is riven by chaos. and torn apart inside, continuing to have their own civil war. >> to that point, let me just ask. have the fundamental ideological rifts between the party that brought down kevin mccarthy over this, have those been resolved? are we just waiting for them to resurface yet again in the final days and hours? i think that matt gaetz early on was clear about if kevin mccarthy, the speaker at the time, would've gone through with his cr at the time. he was going to vote for his removal. he followed through on that. is that threat looming large over a mike johnson this week? >> i think that it is looming. i do think that mike, speaker johnson will have a little bit of leeway. he just came in after a complete chaos for weeks and weeks. the republican party knows that they cannot have that happening again. i do think that they have got a little bit more leeway. he is also from the freedom caucus