Transcripts For MSNBCW The 20240618

tonight. i have this new podcast, it is called rachel maddow presents ultra, season two of ultra. episode two of that is out today. it starts with a really cheery little episode, i guess. a really cheery little thumbnail sketch of a doomsday weapon designed to kill everyone on earth. so, you know, how is that for ats? episode two of ultra is out today wherever you get your podcasts. thank you. all right, that is going to do for us tonight. now it is time for the last word with the great lawrence o'donnell. >> episode two to look forward to because of, like you, i spent today engrossed in anthony fauci's book. i spent the weekend. i have to do an event with him at the 92nd street y on thursday night, which i am sure by the time you are halfway through your first comments, was sold out for thursday night. and rachel, the book is so rich, as you know that was the tip of the iceberg discussion. you can do, i could do an hour with him just about what he went through at the beginning of the mystery of the hiv-aids investigation. those chapters where they don't know what they are dealing with . it brings us all back to that time and all the work that he did long before he ended up, once again, saving so many lives during the covid-19 pandemic. >> and even if you just go to the pandemic park, epidemic by epidemic, even what he tells you about the guy, which i had completely forgotten about, i'm sorry, but i had. that is a mind blowing stuff in terms of the way that that was handled and mishandled in the way that people in government dealt with that. that absolutely will curl your hair. within just the details, even about the start of covid, the falling call that he got on new year's day, 2020, from the reporter asking him about something that went on in central china. the footage that they have, the images that they had about the prefab thousand dead hospital that was popping up in a place where there weren't even supposedly 800 infections and what that meant. and then, course, the interactions with trump. the cameos from people like steven mnuchin, who walked her through the covid response, fundamentally misunderstand what is going on and screwing it up. it is just, it is living history because he is still going through it, the way they are targeting him. it is going to be a definitive record for the american public health in the 21st and 20th centuries. >> will do more than an hour, hour and a half on this. i am going to begin where it all began in bensonhurst, and brooklyn. his story growing up, just to his elementary school through high school. that is a book. that is a book in itself. >> you have to tell the story about the doctor. i mean, i won't step on your intro for the y but when he is born. literally the night he was born and was the doctor who delivers him is wearing when he brings baby anthony fauci into the world. you can't make it up. it is freaking fantastic >> it is incredible. the book is just a great book, even if it had no controversy in its work it is just a wonderful, wonderful book. just an astonishing life. at any point you can just stop that book and say okay, that is an amazing life. and he is 40 at that point we could go on and on, rachel. really, i just have to say that was just an invaluable hour that you just delivered to us. >> ray, i'm looking forward to the highlights, thank you. >> thank you, rachel. joe biden, the president who some seem to think are too old to be president, flew across the atlantic ocean four times in a week. first to france to attend the ceremonies commemorating the day, and then back to washington and then back across the atlantic to italy for the all-important g7 meeting. and then, the longest leg of his flight schedule was from europe back across the atlantic , this time all the way across the country to los angeles. where on saturday night, where would have been prohibitively jetlagged to even speak, president biden made an appearance with his mood important friend in politics, president barack obama, right at the stakes in this presidential election. >> institutions matter. and this president, what he did on january the sixth, you hear what he is saying now? if he doesn't win, there will be a bloodbath. it is outrageous what he is talking about. >> and if donald trump does win the electoral college, he has promised to pardon some immediate releases from prison for all of the people who violently attacked the capital for donald trump on january 6th, 2020 one. to overturn the presidential election. the greatest single crime ever committed against democracy in american history, now has the full and open public support of one of our presidential candidates, who just happens to also be a criminal defendant accused of being the lead conspirator or in that crime against american democracy, leading up to and on january 6th. on saturday night, president biden heightened the stakes in the election by pointing out something we all should have seen as obvious. before president biden said, that if donald trump wins the electoral college again, he will be in a position to immediately appoint at least two extreme republican members of the supreme court, will be able to extend the life of the trump court for another 40 years. >> these threats to abortion rights, to women's rights, even to birth control and ivf are not in our liberal imaginations anymore. they are very real, and these decisions, these very personal, intimate decisions are now being made by nine unelected judges, one of whom flies his flag upside down. the other one, one of the others drives around in a $267,000 gift on vacations. and i think we are all wondering what can we do about this? >> colectomy again, and i tell you why. the next president is likely to have two new supreme court nominees, two more. he has already appointed the two that have been very negative in terms of the rights of individuals. the idea that if he is re- elected he is going to appoint two more flying flags upside down is really, i really mean it. >> could this be the scariest part of all of it? >> i think it is one of the scariest parts. look, the supreme court has never been as out of guilt or as it is today. i mean, never. i took constitutional law for nine years. this guy knows more about it than most. look, the fact of the matter is that this is never been a court that has been this far out of step. and, by the way, when we said, after the decision of roe v wade , the dobbs decision, you had clarence thomas talk about the fact that there are going to be other things we should reconsider including, in vitro fertilization. including contraception. including all these things. and -- by the way. by the way, gay writes. not on my watch . not on my watch. >> here is the opponent of the two judge deal. joe biden was just talking about. clarence thomas is 75 years old. he doesn't look especially healthy. he doesn't look like he likes his job. he has already been identified as the most corrupt supreme court justice in history, given that new supreme court justice in history has actually been accused of a crime. clarence thomas violates ethical standards and financial disclosure rules at an unprecedented level that makes him the supreme court justice who has financially exploited his position as a supreme court justice more than any other justice in history and no one else is even close. how much money would it take to get 75-year-old clarence thomas to resign from the supreme court so that donald trump could replace them with 43-year- old judge eileen mercedes canna, who could serve 40 years on the united states supreme court after she dismisses the charges against donald trump in the criminal case that jack smith has brought against donald trump for violations of the espionage act, which judge a cannon would absolutely do. as soon as possible if donald trump won the electoral college. donald trump wouldn't even have to ask her to do that. clarence thomas won't just hit a brand-new motorhome for resigning from the supreme court. will give him a private jet. whatever it takes. clarence thomas will live the life of an ultra rich man for the rest of his life, life he has always wanted to live point the rich man's life. and then there is 74-year-old samuel alito. who would be convinced with some financial inducement to lead the supreme court so that he, too, could be replaced by a 40-year-old republican right wing extremist who would extend the trump court rule another 40 years. yes, your vote means possibly 40 more years control of the supreme court. samuel alito's wife would then be free after her husband left the court to yell anything she wants at her neighbors. but she might then be rich enough to live in a gated community that would lock her off from any exposure to anyone other than extremist trump republicans who share misses alito's views of life, including her publicly expressed other hatred of gay pride flags. that is a very easy to judge deal for donald trump and rich republicans to execute. at the event on saturday, president obama said this. >> the power of the supreme court is determined by appointments. it is determined by elections. and so, you know, what we are seeing now is a byproduct of, in 2016, there were a whole bunch of folks who, for whatever reason set up. said we are not enthusiastic enough. we are not feeling inspired enough. why bother? and hopefully we have learned our lesson because these elections matter in very concrete ways. we are now seeing how much it matters when it comes to the supreme court. >> not inspired enough. one of the conditions that the biden- harris campaign knows that they are facing is some degree of what president obama was just talking about. some degree of voter apathy which actually exists. because joe biden has brought sanity back to the presidency. some voters don't apparently remember how bad it was under the trump presidency. because of the enormity of the biden presidency, some of those voters have had not much reason to pay much attention to the actual compliments of the biden presidency. president obama on the campaign trail, this is what those voters will be hearing from him. >> i have talked about this before. i have talked about this before. and it is best, the presidency is a relay race. you take the baton and you run the race and so we get where it started. but we knew at the time that even though 20 million people were getting health insurance who didn't have it before. there were still some people who were having trouble affording it because we couldn't find all the subsidies that a lot of people needed. joe comes in, boosts some of the subsidies. that means millions more people are able to access healthcare that is affordable and they can have some security. on climate change, we find clean energy at record levels when we first came into office, joe and i together. we move forward in terms of making sure that fuel efficiency standards on cars have changed. we get the paris accords done. but that is not enough to deal with the size and scope of the challenges that we face. joe comes in, makes historic investments in clean energy. [ applause ] so the, i take great pride in what the biden administration's accomplished. and it is a reminder that we don't have to just vote against something in this election. we have so many to worry about, and there is a whole agenda that we should be concerned about. but we can take pride in affirming the extraordinary work that joe has done. and we want to make sure that we don't hold back and pass it on to the next. because rather than have a president who wants to reverse the progress that has been made. leading off our discussion tonight, andrew weissman, former chief of the eastern district of new york. legal analyst and co-author of the new york times best selling book, the trump indictments. thank you very much for joining us. this is a discussion of, about the stakes in the presidential election. this is what matters, and, most coverage of elections, unfortunately, focuses on other things. optics and poles and things like that. but these, this is what we actually know. what the two candidates wanted to do. what their records show they want to. with the joe biden on saturday night, started talking about the two justices, i had thought already, highly likely they should get clearance thomases regulation -- resignation were trump term for obvious reasons, including there is no limit to how many motorhomes he can get if he hands over his supreme court seek to donald trump. but then there is the alito seat. so in his mid-70s, some who we now know once a trump-y and judge to replace him whenever that day comes. john roberts is 69 years old. if judges are looking for the moment where they can get a reliable extremely conservative to right wing judge of whether, the trump years would be that time. and those kinds of appointments could extend the trump court and trump court control of another 40 years. >> yes and that leaves the side anything that happens just because of that look. >> let's assume nothing else. assume only that. and that is a tremendous amount of bad outcomes. >> right, exactly. sonia mayor, knock on wood, the longest life, that she is the same age as justice roberts. there is no question that if you have lived in the last four years, you know that the supreme court is on the ballot. you have seen a right that women have go away. and they had it for 50 years. and you have justice thomas talking about it, as you noted. and that is the beginning, not the end. under a new trump administration , it is really no holds barred. the other thing i would .2 there is not to think about what could happen, but really focus on what is happening right now. you and i talked about this just a few days ago, which is that six months ago, the court was asked to take up the issue of is a president, and from criminal prosecution? a question that no one even thought you could dare ask. and that, the result of that is to give this former president immunity. that is something that this conservative trump and supreme court has enacted and basically saying there will be no accountability for his conduct on january 26th. but they have completely whitewashed that in terms of having criminal accountability. in new york, we have seen what happens when you have criminal accountability. trump loses. there is a reason he does not want to have a trial in the supreme court is, by its inaction, aiding and abetting exactly that. >> angier, what do you mean, in your experience, what are the stakes at the justice department itself in this presidential election? >> so i have had my disagreements with merrick garland in terms of things that he has done or things that he hasn't done. but the one thing that we know about merrick garland's heat is the complete antithesis of bill barr in terms of understanding the rule of law and the independence of the department of justice. from the white house. and people need to understand, that is a norm. it is not set in stone, in law. and that independence justice is what separates us from and autocracy. you had judge sessions, the reason he was canned is because even though you might disagree with every single thing he stands for, politically, he understood that it was inappropriate to take orders from the white house. you couldn't does not prosecute republicans and prosecute democrats who commit crimes. that that is not what the justice department is about. and yet, this is what you are hearing from donald trump, steve bannon, steve miller, and a whole series of politicians, which is that fundamentally antithetical of what it means to be in this country. we will be a completely different country under a trump 2.0 administration, because what will happen to the department of justice and the courts. >> andrew weissman, thank you very much for joining us on this discussion tonight. >> you're welcome. coming up, what are the stakes of the election, the united states of no abortions. the texas abortion ban claims to have an exception, when the life of them mother, when our next yes's life was in danger. in texas refused to save her life, or the life of the healthy twin she was carrying at that time. we will hear what lauren bob told a senate hearing about that when she joins us. that is next. see ya. 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the city we all love. ad paid for by re-elect mayor london breed 2024. financial disclosures are available at sfethics.org. texas state law prohibits all abortions. the law claims to have an exception for a pregnancy that places a email at risk of death. >> exceptions to abortion bans are a fiction. they don't exist in texas, and i am living proof of that. >> that is our next guest, lauren miller, testifying to the senate judiciary committee. one of the amiable traditions of senate hearings that has disappeared, apparently, on the trump republican party, was the treatment that hearing witnesses get from their home state senators. it never mattered whether the senator agreed with the testimony of the person from their state it was very common for a senator from say, texas, to graciously introduce witnesses from their state and to be extra attentive to their testimony and to take pictures with the witness from their state and the witnesses family. but when lauren miller testified to the senate judiciary committee, that did not happen. senator rafael edward cruz did not even show up for that hearing. texas congressman, who is now running for senate against senator pecker met with lauren miller before the hearing. you will now get to hear what senator pecker refused cruz refused to even get close o to dan r that hearing. you will now get to hear what left everyone senator at the hearing literally speechless, not one republican member of that committee had one word to say to lauren miller. after she said this. >> texas is in he-man abortion bans stripped me of my bodily etomidate and kept me from making life and death decisions about my health, my children's health, and the future of my family. my pregnancy was not my own. it belonged to the state. and ultimately, the opinions of texas politicians and government lawyers completely overrode the medical judgment of my physicians and trampled my constitutional rights to life and health. i was forced to travel out of state for the essential and life preserving medical care that i desperately needed. and abortion. several weeks into my second pregnancy, i wound up in the e.r., following 36 hours of unrelenting vomiting i was treated for severe dehydration and, just to be safe, they looked at the baby. there is nothing that can prepare you for the shock, terror, and excitement of finding out that you are pregnant with twins. my husband and i embrace this family expansion and immediately began planning. that is until i learned at the 12 week ultrasound that one of my twins was unlikely to survive . it was shattering. there were so many concerns about his development, including the most devastating diagnosis took half of his brain was filled with fluid. we went through more testing, more ultrasounds, and the news only got worse. our amazing medical team kept arriving at the same awful conclusion, one of our twin sons was going to die. it was just a matter of how soon. and every day that he continued to grow, he put his twin and myself at greater and greater risk. the answer should have been simple. i needed an abortion of one twin to save the other and to save myself. before i fell, i would have been able to get that procedure in dallas, in my own community. but because of texas's new abortion laws, every single medical professional we spoke with told us the medical care i needed was illegal in texas. they were terrified to even suggest an abortion for the twin that could never survive. the most helpful and direct information we received came from a doctor who was so frustrated with the situation that after one of our most devastating ultrasounds he ripped off his glove, threw them in the trash and told us this baby isn't going to make it to birth. i can't help you. you need to leave the state. only days later, i ended up in the e.r. again so sick that i feared the placenta would detach and i would bleed out. i was dehydrated and shaking uncontrollably as the e.r. team worked to stabilize me. i was at risk of organ damage to my kidneys and brain. but i still wasn't dead enough for an exception for the abortion care in texas. lauren miller traveled over 700 miles to colorado to get the life-saving medical treatment that she was denied by the republican government of texas. >> and abortion was the best chance we had of saving our other son and preserving my health. yet, there were no options. there were no next steps. we had reached the point where healthcare in in texas. i was going to have to flee the state for my family had lived for eight generations and i was terrified. now we had to scramble to navigate the logistics of traveling out of state for an abortion. the bounty laws in texas had us worrying about who could turn against us. was it safer to attempt 12 hours in a car through rural texas while i was violently ill? what if i got worse? we knew flying was faster but what if i was pulled out of the security line and questioned? or not allowed on the flight because i was too sick? should we lead our cell phones at home and rely only on cash to prevent being tracked? exceptions to abortion bans are a fiction. they don't exist in texas, and i am living proof of that. >> lauren miller will join us after this break. try dietary supplements from voltaren, for healthy joints. i was stuck. unresolved depression symptoms were in my way. i needed more from my antidepressant. vraylar helped give it a lift. adding vraylar to an antidepressant is clinically proven to help relieve overall depression symptoms better than an antidepressant alone. and in vraylar clinical studies, most saw no substantial impact on weight. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. report unusual changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. report fever, stiff muscles, or confusion, as these may be life-threatening, or uncontrolled muscle movements, which may be permanent. high blood sugar, which 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leaffilter protects your home? with our lifetime transferable no clogs warranty. we'd be glad to come out for a free no-hassle inspection. to schedule your free inspection, call 833-leaffilter today or visit leaffilter.com a group of more than 20 women sued the state of texas after they were denied abortion services even when their lives were at risk. because of pregnancy. the texas supreme court rejected the lawsuit and refused to clarify the so- called exception to the texas law's division that appears to authorize the only abortions necessary to save the life of the mother. lauren miller was one of the women who sued texas. >> i like all my doctors, i like my nurses, et cetera, in texas. i felt for them that their hands were tied in what they can do. and the team in colorado was incredible. they were trying to do everything from help me just know what was going to happen with the procedure to following up after with mental health resources and support groups for others who have been through my situation. were now going back to these and states where we are just silence and we are risked. >> and when did you come home to texas? >> so it is a bit shocking, for a 15 minute procedure that could have been done three miles from my house, it took several thousand dollars and three days. and the entire time we were in colorado, we had clear blue skies, sunshine, and it was amazing. we touched down in dallas again and it was night, and it just felt, once again, blackness had come over us and we didn't tell anybody what had happened. he didn't tell anybody what we had done because we were so scared. >> 20 is now is lauren miller. thank you very much for joining us tonight. i can imagine what it was like to go through what you went through. and then to go through that day of testifying to the senate judiciary committee. how did it feel to not have the support or even the acknowledgment of your texas senators, even one of them could've been there at that hearing? >> thanks for having me here tonight, lawrence. and it was pretty shocking that neither of them acknowledged me at all. that senator cruz, who was on that subcommittee , couldn't even be bothered to show up. he either said was too much of a coward to face the situation that he had forced me into or he just didn't care. and neither of that is really a great recipe for a representative in congress. and it was really just shocking and very disappointing. >> i just want to clarify some points of your story for the audience because i know they are wondering. you were pregnant with twins, the abortion was for one of, that part of the pregnancy, and how did the rest of the pregnancy go? >> correct. so i had what is called a single fetal reduction, which is just an abortion of one twin. and it was remarkable. i had been so sick from that point, i didn't reach my prepregnancy weight until i was in the seventh month of pregnancy because i had been so ill, could not eat anything. but hours after i had my abortion, i could eat dinner. and the rest of the pregnancy was fortunately very unremarkable, very normal. and i had a happy, healthy son at the end of it. >> it is so stunning to me that we talk about life of the mother. one of the things that no one has ever referred to, as we talk about this publicly, until you brought it to our attention is what about the life of the twin? what about the life of the other potential baby who, during the pregnancy, is threatened by the other? >> exactly. and there is a situation that had not been contemplated because, in a sense, it didn't really matter because the exceptions, i think were in ever intended to work. they were just there to be a lie that could be repeated often enough to be believable by virtue of repetition. and if antiabortion politicians, judges, et cetera, continue to repeat it, and they can get people to vote against their best interest and for their own dehumanization. >> you know, from the start, after rose overturned, and after the states enacting these laws, some of which have so- called exceptions, i have not referred to their exceptions because i simply refer to them as abortion bans, what is custom here. because you are going to have to prove to me that there are exceptions. you are going to have to prove to me that the exceptions actually work. and i was just doing that with the kind of instinctive understanding about the weight laws are executed without even knowing that your story and others were going to be coming on to confirm, as you say, there is functionally no exception in texas. >> that is correct. and in our lawsuit, we had a very modest ask. it was just, how dead do we have to be? and we couldn't even get that kind of clarity from the texas supreme court. and i remember when i first read that ruling from them a few weeks back now. and i immediately had to go back and reread it because i felt i had missed something. what i saw upon rereading it, what i had missed was us. we just worked there. we had been completely erased. they didn't even refer to us as the plaintiffs, they referred to our lawyers, instead. which is such an absurd situation. and that is the reality is these exceptions are not supposed to exist and if they could just erase us entirely, then they could try to distract from the fact that these exceptions aren't real. >> are there support groups now in texas trying to help with women who financially, on their own, don't have the capacity to make it to colorado or to make it to somewhere where they can get help? >> there are. and there are networks that are trying to help people to get out of state. the unfortunate reality is, we shouldn't have to have any of these. we should not just go back to roe, we should have national protection for abortion because, as cases like mine so, this is healthcare. and there are a lot of reasons to get an abortion. everyone is fine. but there may be situations where it is really necessary, regardless of what you want, it may be something that is necessary to save your life or in a situation like mine, to protect a pregnancy. >> this goes to the sticks of the presidential election and the congressional elections. republican saying they want to enact a national abortion ban. similar to texas. democrats say they want to enact into law, basically restore roe versus wade through law. >> yeah, the stakes of this election could not be higher. this is, this is an election that is literally about our lives. this election is about the dehumanization of half of this country. and if donald trump, if these maga republicans continue to have their way, there will be a national abortion ban. and there is no week where it is reasonable. i had my abortion at 15 weeks. of that proposed 15 week ban was in place, i would've had nowhere to turn. i would maybe, maybe not be here. my son definitely would not be here. >> lauren miller, thank you very much for sharing this important story. thank you for joining us tonight. >> thank you for having me. coming up, just 10 days until the first presidential debate, the biden-harris campaign is reminding voters about donald trump's felony convictions., credit strategist, simon rosenberg will join us with his assessment of the presidential campaigns as of tonight. that is next. i & ii depre and in clinical trials, movement disorders and weight gain were not common. caplyta can cause serious side effects. call your doctor about sudden mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts right away. anti-depressants may increase these risks in young adults. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. caplyta is not approved for dementia-related psychosis. report fever, confusion, or stiff muscles, which may be life threatening, or uncontrolled muscle movements which may be permanent. common side effects include sleepiness, dizziness, nausea, and dry mouth. these aren't all the side effects. in the darkness of bipolar i & ii depression, caplyta can 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something willat that's right for your t let our expertise round out yours. i think a part of what has happened over the last several years is we have normalized behavior that used to be disqualifying. right? [ applause ] we add the spectacle of the nominee of the two major parties, sitting in court, and being convicted by a jury of his peers, on 34 counts. >> everything about donald trump has been disqualifying since he announced his first presidential campaign. but none of that matters to a disturbingly large minority of american voters. and in the next election, we are going to find out whether being found guilty of crimes is still disqualified for a presidential candidate. >> in the courtroom we see donald trump for who he is he has been convicted of 34 felonies, found liable for sexual assault, and he committed financial fraud. meanwhile, joe biden has been working. lowering healthcare costs and making corporations pay their fair share. this election is between a convicted criminal, whose only out for himself, and a president who is fighting for your family point >> i am joe biden and i approve this message. >> the biden-harris campaign released that added today as part of a $50 million ad campaign that you will not see unless you live in one of the six or seven electoral college swing states that will decided the presidential election. most americans will never see a presidential campaign tv advertisement this year because most americans live in states that are not up for grabs and the presidential election. that means the voters in the swing states are super voters. extraordinarily empowered voters whose vote means much more than mine ever has. and most of the undecided voters in those swing states consume very little political news. that is why presidential campaigns have to raise a lot of money to buy tv advertising, expensive tv advertising to, in effect, invade those undecided voters favorite tv shows. according to polls, many, if not most of the undecided voters are, to put it mildly, underinformed joe biden's decision to schedule an early presidential debate next week should improve the information flow, even to those voters today, the biden-harris campaign released a statement saying, quote, trump approaches the first debate as a convicted felon who continues to prove that he will do anything and harm anyone if it means more power and vengeance for donald trump. with the first presidential debate just 10 days away we are joined tonight by rosenberg, for his assessment of the state of the race. simon is a democratic strategist and the author of hopi, chronicles on substack. simon, i don't follow the polls because i rely on you to do it for me. tell me what matters, whether it be polls or any other factors that are affecting the state of the race tonight. >> akamai think two things, lawrence, it is great to see you, again. one is that we have seen, with, what this ad is trying to do is to establish this basic choice, right? modern pragmatic democrats who are fighting to make things better and, in joe biden's case, have made things much better. and the extremism from maga. and when we have been able to put that choice in front of our voters, 2018, 2020, 2022, 2023, the early parts of 2024. we have another good very special election last week, right? we keep winning and they keep struggling. i think that what the biden campaign is doing now is taking this new information, as you pointed out, there are a lot of voters who have not really checked in yet and make sure that they know that donald trump , that 2024 is a very different candidate than he was in 2020 because of what has happened. that he is a sex offender and a fraudster and now a convicted felon. this is important information for voters to have. you live in a battleground state, you are about to have it in your face in the coming weeks. the second thing is polling. we now had six national polls taken that have shown biden improving between two to four points in the last few weeks. i think that was to be expected. i think many of us felt that things would shift a little bit. things move glacially. presidential elections, things don't move really quick. but i think if you are looking for encouraging news for joe biden, it is there if you want to see it. and i think we are in better shape as we head into the debate next week and we were and certainly every way imaginable at this point. the i just want to alert most voters who don't live in or near the swing states won't feel the exposure of the campaign. they won't be getting a lot of, they won't be getting trips. california, of course, will be getting president biden to come out there. but primarily for fundraising as it was on this weekend. but if you are in the philadelphia media markets, in new jersey, you're going to pick up some of this, this campaign. but most voters out there will be sitting there saying, hey, what is going on? what are they doing? because they are not banks supposed to those tv ads. >> is important, i think, for the show and for you to continue to bring the campaign that is happening in the battleground to viewers because most of your viewers don't live in the battleground. and i do this on my substack, my hopi, chronicles point i try to share these ads with my readers because most of my readers are not in the battleground, to help them understand what is happening. because it is the divide between living in the battleground, living outside the battleground. it is going to be very dramatic over the next few months. i think we should feel good about where we are right now. i think the assessment that you made about the importance of us bringing this debate earlier in the cycle is important. i think voters, we need voters to have more information. we are confident that when they are given this choice between the successful democratic party and the ugliest political thing that we have ever seen, that we are going to come out at the right end of that, that we have been doing election after election. >> a point about debate coverage. the debate coverage is going to matter the most will be on local tv coverage of the debate in the battleground states. so what we say here on our coverage of it, or any of the national coverage of it, that is not the kind of stuff that the undecided or swing voters in the swing state consumes. >> look, most of the people in the country are going to consume the debate after the debate. although i have a feeling this debate could be a big viewership. i have a gut feeling that this could be a big one because it is so early. it is so distinct, right? it is not part of the fall. people are going to check it out because it is kind of interesting. it is a big opportunity for joe biden to tell a story. i think one of the reasons we are so confident in what is about to happen is we know when people are informed about joe biden's record, his numbers go up. we're going to see that in the debate next week. >> simon rosenberg, thank you very much for joining us today. >> thanks, lawrence. we will be right back. bac. with bimzelx. only bimzelx targets and blocks il-17a plus f to calm inflammation. i can control my plaques, and start getting myself back. bimzelx helps adults with moderate to severe psoriasis control plaques, to deliver clearer skin fast, for results that last. i will give myself back the freedom of shorts. dare to wear black again from head to toe. 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