out and out stealing. for months we tried to get them to answer our questions and you'd think they would want to, wouldn't you? you'd think they'd want to show exactly where the money has gone but they have slammed doors in our reporters' face and refused to answer questions. of that nearly $56 million, how much do you think has gone to directly help disabled veterans? 90%? 50%? we haven't found any of it that has gone to help disabled veterans directly. they do send stuff to some veterans groups, truckloads of stuff, stuff that they get for free. stuff that veterans groups we've talked to say they didn't want, they didn't ask for and they don't even need. here's what one veterans center director told us. >> they sent us 2,600 bags of cough drops. and 2,200 little bottles of sanitizer. and the great thing they sent us was 11,520 bags of coconut m & ms. >> thousands of bags, more than 11,000 bags. we've reported on this group a couple of times the last few weeks and our drew griffin wanted to ask the president of this group about those coconut m & ms and the $56 million. here's what happened when he originally tracked her down. >> you're the one from cnn. >> reporter: meet precilla wilkewitz, president of the disabled veterans national foundation. we found at a small vfw office in baton rouge, louisiana. >> well, this is the veterans of foreign wars and i really didn't think you'd do something like this. we've agreed to talk to you -- answer your questions. >> reporter: nobody has agreed. so here is the question -- >> thank you so much. >> reporter: none of the money has gone to any veterans. >> again, they have raised $56 million. you would think they would want to clarify exactly where that money went, right? well, drew discovered that that woman, precilla wilkewitz was scheduled to speak today at a veterans conference in sacramento. so drew went there hoping she might answer his questions. guess what, she cancelled her appearance but drew was able to find someone else from this organization, the vice president of the disabled veterans national foundation. but apparently she wasn't too happy to see us. drew joins me live now from sacramento. also with us is cnn's jeffrey toobin. drew, you tracked down this vice president of this group. did you get any idea of where all the money is going? >> reporter: i sure did, and i think the headline here, anderson, is if you gave money, if you donated money to the disabled veterans national foundation, like so many of our viewers tell us they did, and you thought the money was going to actual disabled vets, that is not what this board of directors thought when they started this campaign to raise money. and the first vice president today, valerie conley, basically said she has no apologies for how that money was raised and where it went. >> i'm here asking actual questions from your donors and our viewers who want to know what happened to that $56 million that they thought they were giving to actual deserved veterans. >> well, the cost of fund-raising is high, as you know. and it has been for many veteran service organizations who use this kind of approach. >> reporter: what is the point of a fund-raiser when all of the funds go to your private fund-raising company. >> not all of the funds do. >> reporter: according to the documents we've seen filed by your organization, they all do, $56 million. >> well, i think you need to talk to our washington, d.c., office. >> reporter: quite frankly, i've been trying for two years to talk to them and haven't got any answers. that's why i had to resort to come this distance. >> well, i am a volunteer on the board, okay. >> reporter: are you concerned about how this fund-raising drive has gone with your private fund-raiser? >> no, we have done nothing illegal. >> reporter: i know you have done nothing illegal, but have you done -- would you like to have more money going to the veterans? >> absolutely. there is money going to the veterans. we approve grants to individual veterans and veterans organizations on a monthly basis. >> reporter: i've seen no evidence of that other than some gifts in kind program. >> so, drew, help me out here, she's saying we've done nothing illegal and she claims money is going to veterans and veterans groups. have you been able to find any evidence of that? >> reporter: we have not. anderson, i want to reiterate, we have been asking for that specific information now from this very organization for two years. we have yet to see it. we are basing these reports on the tax filings they are required to file and from what we can tell, they are a legitimate, registered, 501 c 3 in the eyes of the irs so perhaps it's true they're not doing anything illegal, but i can't imagine anybody who's donating to this group thinks that all their money should be going to a private fund-raising company and not any of it to the disabled vets. >> that's what you found is that this $56 million that they have raised over three years is just going back into more fund raising? >> reporter: it's actually going directly to a company named quadriga art, which we've been reporting, anderson, is one of the largest groups that helps support these fund-raising outfits, these charity outfits across the nation, across the world. 500 charities, quadriga boasts. they sent a statement saying, yeah, this is pretty much legit. let me read you, this was part of the campaign. the disabled veterans national foundation approached us with a unique mission that we believed in. they lacked a donor file and a name recognition and indicated that they needed a significant and accelerated public awareness and education initiative. given the large number of wounded soldiers returning home amidst insufficient resources to support them. so they say given their objective, anderson, the client knowingly chose an aggressive direct mail strategy that resulted in an expected high cost in the beginning of the program. that program has been going on for three years. it's raised $56 million in private donations and as far as we can tell, all of that money went to pay for a mailing list. i brought that direct quote right to valerie conley, the vice president today, and she basically said yeah, that was the strategy. take a listen. >> reporter: as a board member, did you have any idea that the cost would be this high? $56 million would be paid for just to get a list of people? >> we did not know how fast this would take off and how well it would do. >> reporter: how can you say how well it would do when the money is going to quadriga? >> when we first started this, we didn't know how fast it would take off. >> reporter: you're basically taking money that people want to go into veterans' pockets and giving it to a private company. >> it's worth it for every veteran that we can help. >> reporter: no matter what the cost? >> well, i put on women veterans conferences in my home state. and we spend several thousands of dollars and they are donated dollars, and my philosophy, my personal philosophy has always been that if we could help one veteran, then every dollar we spend is worth it. >> reporter: even if it's $56 million? >> well, i'm not going to answer that question. >> reporter: and she didn't answer any more questions. but basically $56 million raised from the public, they thought they were giving it to disabled vets, it went to this charity's ongoing mailing list and as far as we can tell continues to fund the actual private fund-raiser, who is making money off of this. it's upside down according to every single charity watchdog group we've talked to, anderson. it makes no sense. >> they grade this group with like an "f." it's outrageous the woman can stand there and say if we can help one veteran. if they can only help one veteran with $56 million, that's pathetic. and i mean i think the people who have donated money would be shocked at that. >> reporter: and when the help is a bag of coconut m & ms, i think that's really shocking. as some people have told us, it's just disgusting. >> with $56 million you should be able to help a lot more than just one vet, if they have helped that. jeff toobin is here. he has the legal aspect of it. we have a google plus question. we've got a viewer, lauren bradshaw, asked are the dvnf's activities or lack thereof actually illegal or just horribly deceptive? >> you know, i think there's a clear answer to this, horribly deceptive, not illegal. this is a weird little corner of the law frankly that i didn't know about. a number of states over the years have tried to regulate charities. this is not a new kind of behavior. these charities that basically raise money to support themselves and don't do any good. and what the supreme court has said in the series of cases is that raising money for a charity, a 501 c 3, is an act protected by the first amendment. so states that attempt to criminalize how much you use an administrative overhead are unconstitutional, they're violations of the first amendment. so every attempt to crack down criminally on these kind of operations has failed. and frankly the only answer seems to be is that donors have beware. they have to do their research and make sure these organizations are actually -- and there are these watchdog organizations that drew mentioned and you've got to go and see that they're decent. >> when they're talking about a mailing list, that's a mailing list so they can raise more money down the road? >> reporter: that's all it is. it's a cycle of funding that per -- that pet pettuates on its own self. the idea is to get this mailing list so you continue to make more and more money down the road. what's unnerving, and i think we're going to have a follow-up report tomorrow, is another group that contracted with quadriga art saying they were basically deceived by this and they're not getting any payoff. that's what's happening here. by now this group should have had some kind of money in their bank account. they don't. it's all going to the private fund-raiser. and like jeffrey says, you know, the numbers all line up for the irs, so it's legal. >> and let's be clear, quadriga is making profits off of this. quadriga is a private company. you know, maybe these -- the woman you interviewed, she's a volunteer and the people who actually are involved with this group are sort of good-hearted, if empty-headed people who want to help veterans. quadriga knows exactly what it's doing. it's making a ton of money, of profit, off of these contributions. >> it's also fascinating to hear that woman to say, a, she's a volunteer on the board and they didn't know it was going to take off. i mean the people -- that other woman that slammed the door in your face and has avoided your questions for two years, i mean they seem like not ready for primetime players. this quadriga, as jeff said, certainly seems to know what they're doing. these other folks, i mean maybe they are thinking they're doing some good, but $56 million they have raised and it's not going directly to veterans. it just boggles my mind. >> reporter: right. and i think jeffrey's point is correct. these are not -- these are not bad people that are slamming doors in our face, at least they don't appear to be. they have a long service record. they're involved with many volunteer groups. perhaps they got hoodwinked, duped, got into a contract they can't seem to get out of. quadriga art, they tell us that they're not making any money, though they will not talk to us on camera and they won't show us any of their books. they are a private company. they're a huge company. and they draw up specific contracts which lock these fund-raising -- these charities for long periods of time, six years. and so i think maybe there's a little bit of problem between the company and some people who are not used to dealing in hard ball, fund-raising, for-profit enterprises. >> the flip side of that, though, is if you are a good person and care about disabled vets and are raising $56 million and you feel like it's not going to the right place, you have a duty to say it or resign. they're still slamming doors in your face, not answering questions, still raising money and defending this stuff, which again we'll keep reporting on it. drew griffin is working on this for two years. drew, appreciate it. jeff toobin as well. let us know what you think. we're on facebook and google plus. have you ever heard of anything like this? follow me on twitter. i've been tweeting about this. let me know what you think about it right now on twitter. if you're feeling debt ceiling deja vu, you are not alone. the congress is at it again. the congress is drawing lines in the sand as they gear up for what looks to be another bitter standoff. is this just about election year politics? find out ahead. kiwi. soy milk. impulse buy. gift horse. king crab. rhubarb pie. lettuce shower. made by bees. toucan sam. that's not cheese. grass fed. curry. gingersnaps. soup can tower. 5% cash back. right now, get 5% cash back at grocery stores. it pays to discover. ♪ you're doing it again, sweetheart. hmm? the thumb thing. ♪ -mine. -mine. -mine. ♪ mine! 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[ laughing ] ♪ [ engine turns over ] [ male announcer ] the all-new subaru impreza®. experience love that lasts. ♪ in you politics tonight, your lawmakers are at it again. remember last year's bitter showdown over a deficit reduction plan that led to the brink of a government shutdown, led to the downgrade of the credit rating, the markets tanked, your 401(k) lost a lot of money. get ready for a remake. in the white house today, president obama met with four top senate and house leaders and most of it focused on the debt ceiling increase. it's set to go to vote at the end of the year. familiar lines are already being drawn in the sand. >> when the time comes i will again insist. my simple principle of cuts and reforms greater than the debt limit increase. >> that was house speaker john boehner yesterday. his office says he delivered the same message today for president obama. there are conflicts reports about the president's response. boehner's office says he proposed a debt hike that does not include spending cuts but house democratic leader nancy pelosi said he talked about honoring the debt deal reached last year, which included spending cuts. white house spokesman jay carney said this. >> you have to ask the speaker of the house whether or not he intends or he believes that it is the right thing to do for the american people, the american economy to play chicken with the full faith and credit of the united states government. >> now, the only thing both sides could agree on today, and this is maybe fitting, were the sandwiches the president brought to the lunch. that's him to going to a local deli to buy the hoagies. good sandwiches, good times, raw politics. joining me is ari fleischer and paul begala. boehner is saying the next cut has to have dollar for dollar cuts. but the budget office increases the debt by $5 trillion over ten years. why is that okay? >> right. well, you have to ask the speaker that. i think -- first, let me just say, john boehner's patriotic american, he's a good man, he's a good congressman. he leads his party ably. but what he is proposing is to purposefully damage our country, to take the full faith and credit of our nation to the brink. and they did this once and as you noted it hurt the country. it didn't just hurt the democrats or the republicans, it hurt a lot of middle class families and we should never do that again. the debt ceiling has been raised for 95 years. we used to not have a debt ceiling and there's no real need to have it. it's a coon drivence that congress put in in 1917. but every time we've done it for 95 years until this past time, it's been done in a bipartisan way because no one has ever wanted to risk our full faith and credit because then you're really risking hurting the country. i hurt to see speaker boehner do that. it's clearly what he's doing and i have to say it looks like it's just politics. >> ari, is it just politics? >> anderson, i think it's a mixture. anything of this nature has a political element to it, you can't deny that. on the same token, who is going to try to do something about the debt. that's why this does become a showdown because washington for too long have never done anything about the debt. and you're right, paul ryan, the republican's budget with -- would increase the debt by $5 trillion over ten years. but president obama's budget, if he gets everything he's asked for would increase it by $10 trillion, twice the amount, taking us from $15 trillion in the hole to $25 trillion in the hole. so the question is why are politicians on both parties not doing anything about it before the election. we have massive tax hikes going to hit. the payroll tax reduction gets taken away. we have massive sequestered across the board cuts coming to defense and health care providers and a debt ceiling that we face. why are they punting? isn't this what we elect them for, to judge them so we can vote them in or vote them out? >> since they're punting, doesn't that just make it that this is election year politics all the stronger and this is going to get negotiated after the election. they're now kind of rattling sabres? right now it's just about jockeying? >> i think so. as i say, i think that speaker boehner is a good person but i think what he is doing here is really dangerous. and it's really surprising to me because we went through this before. by the way, i will note and i will correct the record, ari said both parties do it. that's the false equivalency that pundits have to say. but that's falsehood. bill clinton, a democratic president with a democratic house and a democratic senate passed through tax increases and spending cuts that put us on the path toward a balanced budget. the final deal was cut with a republican congress and democratic president. again, president clinton. you can do this, but it takes more revenue, we hope from the rich because they can afford it, and it takes spending cuts. but that's the obvious thing. for speaker boehner to say we're going to risk the full faith and credit of the united states, it's never something you should mess around with. >> anderson, here's the problem with the path we're on. if