character assassination. >> is the press helping to put sharon bialek on trial? should a rupert murdoch production have outed a second victim against her will? there have been a deluge of women with similar complaints. we'll turn to the sickening child abuse tragedy at penn state that forced out legendary coach joe paterno. >> i'm out of it maybe now. a phone call put me ahead of it. but we'll go from there, okay? good luck, everybody. >> why did many journalists put this 84-year-old man on a ped school? do the media -- pedestal? >> do the media apply different standards to college football? we'll ask our guests, including jack mccollum. he i'm howard kurtz, and this is "reliable sources." for all the media coverage of the accusations swirling around herman cain, it was not clear just precisely what he was alleged to have done. that is until sharon bialex stepped forward this week. she went before the cameras to accuse the presidential candidate not just of harassment but of pushing his hand under her skirt and pushing her head toward his crotch. this allegedly in a parked car 14 years ago when she was looking for a job. and bialek as much as cain quickly found herself under media scrutiny. >> i was very, very surprised and very shocked. i said, "what are you doing? you know i have a boyfriend. this isn't what i came here for." mr. cain said, "you want a job, right?" >> saying flat out you're a liar. >> i'm not a liar, and everyone that knows me knows i speak the truth. and that's why i came here, because i wouldn't do something i didn't feel so strongly about. i was not paid to come forward, nor was i promised any employment. >> you have filed for bankruptcy twice. is your coming forward a part of any financial motivation? >> absolutely not. there were no skeletons in my closet. i told her that this may come up. and i expected this. this is what happens. it's not about me. i'm not the one running for president. >> cain called her account bogus and false in a news conference, but he also made charges he couldn't back up. >> you made self references to the machine, the democratic machine. who is involved in this, is it a conspiracy? >> i cannot -- i cannot say that it is a conspiracy. we do not is definitive, factual proof. >> and when cnbc's maria bartiromo raised the issue at a republican debate this week, the crowd had an instant reaction. >> in recent days, we have learned that four different women have accused you of inappropriate behavior. here we're focusing on character and on judgment. [ booing ] >> you've been a ceo -- >> yes -- >> so have the media adequately challenged cain's denials, and are they putting his accusers on trial? joining us, clarence page, columnist for the charles gibson. lauren ashburn, former managing editor of the "huffington post." and jack mccollum, from "the daily caller." you heard saying character assassination. do many quote them in time to move on? >> the media would like to move on, i suppose, but we didn't create this story. we're covering it. the public has questions to -- that they want to have answered. but what's been interesting this week, though, is that these other stories have come along. joe paterno's story. the story about rick perry's flubbed -- >> which we'll get to. >> and b, i think herman cain got a break in that sense. but he's still out there campaigning. >> and i thought he got a break from bartiromo who didn't fall up when he said character assassination. excuse me, character assassination? didn't they settle -- lauren ashburn, has the harsh media scrutiny shifted toward the women who said that herman cain acted, to say the least, inappropriately? >> most definitely, howie. this is character assassination. and this happens to women all the time who come forward and say, hey, look. this behavior is inappropriate. and as soon as that happens, the men go right for those women and say, okay, well, your job performance isn't great. you've got bankruptcy issues. you've got -- you know, you were dressing provocatively. that's my favorite one. oh, well, you deserve it because you were dressed provocatively. >> i do get the sense that journalists are backing off, not because other stories have come to the fore, but cain blamed the media and stayed high in the polls. you heard the boos at the debate. what's your debate? >> i think ultimately the problem for the metedia is that there is no stained blue dress. we do know that a decade ago, that these two, you know, accusations were made and that settlements were made. that's all we know. we don't have proof or evidence. >> are you kidding me? i'm sorry. no proof or evidence? i mean, these women are coming forward. it's their word. and all of these issues, it always becomes a he said/she said. >> right. >> so basically right now what you're saying is you're taking the advantage -- you're taking the he said point of view. >> no, i'm saying that if someone is accused that they're innocent until proven guilty and you're assuming that cain is guilty, i'm assuming that i don't know he's guilty. >> i'm not assuming he's guilty. i'm saying we need to take these women seriously. >> i would agree. >> you seem to be setting a high standard since often there is only circumstantial evidence. there are four women and two -- if there's no semen it can't be proven? >> what i'm saying, and this isn't my opinion of what ought previously, this is based on what will the public believe. and the court of public opinion. and i'm of the opinion that if there were no stained blue dress, bill clinton would not have been impeached. likewise, i think herman cain was definitely damaged by these accusations. but i don't know that they're deadly to his political future unless there is some sort of proof because anybody can accuse -- you could be accused, i could be accused. >> my gosh. i can't believe i'm hearing it. >> let's not treat this like a criminal case. herman cain is not on trial, he hasn't been indicted. he is running for president. when you're running for president, you're looking for the public's approval. he is losing points with people. sure, folks are ravenous herman cain fans saying, yeah, attack the media. but herman cain has not handled this well. >> i agree. >> you agree, you see, there's questions coming up about herman cain's -- >> he's flubbed the politics. >> you -- i want to get off cain and come back to the media question. another development in which karen krousher, one of the women who filed the complaint in the '90s when she worked at the national restaurant association which cain headed, and wanted to remain anonymous was outed by the rupert murdoch ipad magazine "the daily." and other organizations followed suit. did that bother you? >> it's disgusting. >> it bothers me to out anybody against their will. you have to raise real questions about that. but perhaps there's a certain inevitability to it. her identity is known now, and i think she's handling it well. that's the way the stories move. >> all the reporting i've done, women want to remain anonymous. they don't want their future careers to be on the line. i had even somebody who went on the record with me say, no, wait a minute, i can't do this because i don't want someone to think i'm a troublemaker. you know, if you raise these allegations and so -- for the media to come out and say, okay, i'm going to name you when you've asked to be anonymous i think is reprehensible. >> she did give a statement to the new york types once her name of leaked. this is a woman who works at the treasury department. i was troubled by the fact "the daily" decided she didn't care who it thought. they were going to put her name out there. and the -- let's look at the footage of herman cain's chief of staff, mark block, talking on fox news about this very subject. >> karen kroushour, h come out as one of the women and we find her son works at "politico." the organization that put the story up -- >> can you confirm that? i've been hearing rumors. you've confirm that would, right? >> we've confirmed it -- that he does work at "political coo." that's his mother. >> absolutely false. no relation. this is an environment this which lots of stuff gets thrown around. >> mark block is guilty of political malpractice. i think herman -- i'm not alone, i think that herman cain ought to give serious consideration as to whether or not he should stay on as his chief of staff. and by the way -- >> and how did he challenge him, how did he -- >> to his credit. not only did mark block go on national television and made this accusation which is totally false, they also accused rick perry, his campaign, of being the leak to politico." they later sort of walked it back. that was devastating to herman cain because up until that point conservatives were rallying to his defense, now he's attacking another republican and muddied the waters. >> what's upsetting is that i think there are two sides and we allow the two sides to say whatever they want on television without saying ahead of time, look, if you're going to name this person, you better back it up. >> and here's one more -- and commentator, of cour -- comment course, happy to fuel the fire. and here's msnbc. >> we're going to see how open the gop is to this -- their new black friend when they find out that he's harassing blonde women as opposed to black women. that sort of thing of black sexuality, predatory black sexuality. very frightening in this country still. very threatening. so we'll see how that plays out. >> the media coverage change when we found out that two of the womener white? >> it didn't -- women were white? >> it didn'ttosh everybody's credit -- i was disappointed. there's an excellent book on the issue of post black, post racial america. then he hops over to the racial thing. like the barber shop. yeah, in black barber shop, they'll talk about that. he's in trouble now -- >> a woman is a woman is a woman is a woman is a woman, i'm sorry. >> but in the real world if a woman is blonde or not blonde, attractive or not attractive, does it affect the way people talk and report on the story? >> well, it shouldn't. >> you're saying it shouldn't. but does it? >> i think maybe yes. but in this instance i agree with clarence. i don't believe it did. i think that the women who get it the most, who get attacked the most, are the ones who people say, oh, she's really good-looking or dresses provocatively, or you can see part of her bosom, or she has blonde hair and it's hanging in her face. and it's because of the way that they look that people come after them. >> we'll talk more about sexual harassment later in the program. i want to turn to one other issue before break. john dickerson, cbs news political director. he wrote an e-mail before the cbs presidential debate about michele bachmann. whether she was going to come on a web show. he wrote -- i think we've got that, we can put it up on the screen. okay, let's keep it loose, though, since she's not going to get many questions and she's nearly off the charts, in the hopes that maybe we can get someone else. bachmann said this was an example of media bias. her campaign manager called dickerson a piece of excrement who should be fired. i think he was recognizing that michele bachmann is not exactly the top of the polls. what's your take, matt lewis? >> i agree, it's an unfortunate -- that e-mail that was supposed to be internal -- >> reply all, oh, no. >> look, let's be honest. i mean, we -- it is a facof life. i think that these debates, you can question the debate format, are these helpful. but all the networks know that if you're not polling well, if you're not seen as relevant, you're going to get less questions. >> as it turns out, congresswoman bam bachmann got almost as many questions. and rick perry does interviews as he tries to forget about -- forget about that thing he did in the debate. ♪ it was the best day [ whooping ] ♪ it was the best day ♪ it was the best day ♪ ♪ it was the best day ♪ 'cause of you we make a great pair. huh? progressive and the great outdoors! we make a great pair. right, totally. that's what i was thinking. all kinds of vehicles, all kinds of savings. multi-policy discounts from progressive. call or click today. and here's what we did today: supported nearly 3 million steady jobs across our country... ... scientists, technicians, engineers, machinists... ... adding nearly 400 billion dollars to our economy... we're at work providing power to almost a quarter of our homes and businesses... ... and giving us cleaner rides to work and school... and tomorrow, we could do even more. cleaner, domestic, abundant and creating jobs now. we're america's natural gas. the smarter power, today. learn more at anga.us. but when they come home, they don't want a parade; they want a job. the postal service employs more veterans than any other civilian employer. but congress is debating a bill that would force the postal service to fire tens of thousands of vets, close post offices, shut mail processing plants, and disrupt mail delivery. drastic cuts won't fix the postal service and aren't needed. tell your representative to vote "no" on house resolution 2309. it's time to deliver for our veterans -- and america. yeah, i toog nyguil bud i'm stild stubbed up. 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[ deep breath ] thank you! that's the cold truth! columnist george will made an announcement that leaked out, that his wife, mary, is going to work for the rick perry campaign. now, will has been ripping the romney campaign and calling rick -- romney the pretzel candidate. christiane amanpour didn't ask, does this cast any doubt, create a perception problem, on will as a commentator if his wife is working for one of the candidates in the campaign he's writing about. >> i think he's a commentator, and a lot of people would make a difference, howie. not everybody, but a lot of people would say he's a commentator. we know where he stands on this. however, i think that it's very important in the media that there is transparency. we demand that was other people. we demand that was our government, the freedom of information act and the sunshine law. >> he did talk about it on the air. >> right. but would he have if "politico" hadn't written the story that said, by the way, his wife is working there. and fred hyatt now, to the credit, has said -- eadtor of the "washington post" -- said we're going to put this on every biline of his. >> the editor of the "washington post." rick perry got lots of airtime. let's take a brief look at his comedy stylings. >> the third agency of government, i would -- i would do away with the education, the commerce -- and -- the third, i can't. i can't, i'm sorry. oops. >> boy, no one wants pity from an opponent, but you did look like you were in pain. what were you thinking? >> with all due respect, what were you thinking last night, governor? >> i think i made a -- a -- an error last night. i stepped in it is what my wife would have said. and she was correct. >> i'm not going to ask you, matt lewis, whether this was overplayed. this is the worst brain freeze i've ever seen in a presidential debate. would this have been treated as big a story if mitt romney couldn't think -- the stereotype of perry not become the sharpest knife in the drawer -- >> absolutely. the worst scandals, flubs, are when they reinforce a narrative people already suspect about you. i think it was overplayed. twitter, all the journalist i follow were declaring it over for rick perry. >> the final nail in the coffin. >> the reports of his death are greatly exaggerated. he handled it well with the self-deprecating humor. it's not over. >> that's what i was going to can you. by doing the top ten list on letterman, "could he be turning this into a positive? >> it could. it's going to be interesting to see how this plays out in this case because perry is still so new to the national public that it's unfortunate for him if they constantly associate him with moments of humor. so whereas some folks like a bill clinton or a barack obama may be able to spin things around by going on "letterman," i don't know if it will play out the same way for perry. >> but why aren't we talking about what he is saying? that he wants to eliminate three agencies? >> you say the media should focus more on substance than on account the fact that he couldn't get -- >> come on. >> get rid of five agencies. >> come on, let's talk about that. >> all right. maybe next week. matt lewis and clarence page, thanks for joining us. up next, lauren ashburn on what happened when she decided to speak out about sexual harassment. wait a minute. what? just like that? did you even see the allstate? it's cute. what is it? great insurance. you get accident forgiveness, deductible rewards, safe-driving bonus checks, plus a free lifetime membership in good hands roadside assistance just for calling. sold. tiny tow truck -- works every time. shop less. get more. make one call to an allstate agent. the furor over herman cain has sparked a personal date with women speaking out about incidents they've never discussed in public. one of them is lauren ashburn. how much did you wrestle with when to go public about being harassed in your own career? >> oh, i wrestled with it back and forth. when i saw the way that she was being handled ukrain, herman ca accuser was handled, i by-law may top. how -- i blew my top. how can you attack her credibility? this happens to women all the time, but i'm not going to name who, i'm going to be anonymous about what happened and when it happened. >> you wrote explicitly what happened. you wrote about being in a new york taxi with a business client. what happened there? >> he reached over and grabbed my knee and said, boy, if we were alone, we'd have a lot of fun. >> and what did your boss once say to you about his boss? >> his boss said, hey, you have a nice rack, this boss of mine says -- >> you -- >> he's telling me this, that his boss said to him, hay, that lauren ashburn -- hey, that lauren ashburn, has a nice rack. he's telling me while looking at my breasts. it makes you feel like a piece of meat and makes you feel like, okay, why am i in this job? and what's going to happen if i say something? what happens if i go to -- who am i going to go to? if i go to h.r. and say, hey, this guy looked at me funny and made this comment, are they going to brush it under the rug as has happened to so many women? do you want to be labeled as a troublemaker? you know, what are they going to give you? a couple thousand dollars. how are you going to find another job? >> so you felt at the time and you feel now because you didn't name names, that blowing the whistle, pointing the finger, would come back to haunt you? >> howie, i don't say it's the right thing to do. i'm not proud that i kept my mouth shut. i'm a very vocal person. and i'm not saying that women shouldn't do it. and i applaud women who do it. >> lots of women do complain. and sometimes they get a fair settlement. >> if they get a fair settlement, that's right. women came out of the woodwork, sending me emails about how they were asked to sleep with their bosses, and tried to manage it and didn't. and ultimately found another job. and one woman said that, you know, she came in to an editorial meeting, and somebody made a very lewd comment about where she could sit. and, you know, it goes on and on and on. >> i was wondering how you were going to handle that. >> i didn't read the article -- >> okay. but -- when you wrote about this for my web site, "the daily beast," the web site exploded. did you is the impression that women wanted to tell someone? some of these incidents must h