redefining insurance a note of new cnn original series, new episodes tonight at nine showdown, four days until cnn's historic presidential debate. how thursday night changed the race. there's never been a better politician, a better debater and land trump's top vp contenders north dakota governor doug burgum is next and rallying cry two years after the dobbs decision, democrats rally around abortion access, or never stopped but a new poll raises questions about biden's support among women. can the president count on them in november, new york governor kathy hochul is here exclusively, plus dress rehearsal. biden huddling would debate advisers while trump plays the expectations game out on the trail, will refer to him asleep joe, what should you expect when they go head-to-head thursday night, former wisconsin governor scott walker and former obama senior adviser, david axelrod, are here to break it get down good morning. >> i'm kaitlin collins and for jake tapper tapper and dana bash here in new york or the state of our union is in debate prep. and just four days, president joe biden and former president donald trump are going to meet for a historic cnn presidential debate with the potential to dramatically reshape what has been a remarkably stable race for the white house president biden at camp david, where he is huddling with his full debate team of advisors leading up to thursday night, as he is looking to shake off trump's attacks on his age and his abilities. and also trying to turn the focus back on his opponents felony conviction, and also his proposals for a second term. meanwhile, donald trump is foregoing formal debate prep and instead holding more informal meetings with his senior advisers as sources tell me that he is soliciting advice from pretty much everybody in his inner circle from his also trying to lower expectations, expectations, and suggesting that president biden could prove to be more formidable than expected. >> they, want to get him good and strong. so a little before debate time, he gets a shot. the i say he'll come out all jacked up. right note, that is a baseless claim. >> it comes after trump spent months effectively lowering expectations for biden. trump also said yesterday that he does expect his upcoming vice presidential pick to be with him in atlanta on thursday. it's been a who's who of vp contenders that are going to be tuning in together at a debate. watch party in atlanta that includes my next guest, one of trump's top contenders to be his vice president, republican governor of north dakota, doug burgum and doug governor, it's great to have you here. obviously, this debate is going to be huge. it's in four days from now, how critical do believe it is for donald trump to have a strong performance? >> well, i think it's something that america is very excited to look forward to. and i'm sure it's going to be very good debate and congratulation to cnn for having this historic debate. >> but i think again there's, there has been a real effort on the biden team to try to lower expectations, but i think we have to look at the guys, run for office more than a dozen times. >> he's run for president four times. he's been campaigning since the president nixon was in office. this guy has got the ability and we've seen it. we've seen them in debate four years ago. we've seen them in the state of, the state of the union this year that when he needs two, he can step up, but i think this is a real opportunity for cnn most trusted name in news to ask some tough questions, including the one because this is a rematch. and when we add this debate just before the election four years ago, joe biden looked into the camera and said that hunter biden's laptop was a smear campaign, russian disinformation called it garbage. and now we know that none of that is true. and i think this is there's an opportunity that america is waiting. i mean, cnn has got an opportunity to ask tough questions of both these candidates. >> yeah, i think there are safe to say there'll be tough questions for everybody, but it's interesting that you say biden is lowering expectations because it, trump has also been doing that. you yourself have called biden and firm. i mean, you've been setting the bar pretty low for president biden. is that a mistake? >> well, i don't know if it's a mistake or not. i mean, i think there's a i think america is sort of looks at the state of the state. he stood up and he spoke strongly for over an hour and then when we're worth a group of governors with them at the back in february, we were limited to two questions. one republican governor and one democrat each got to ask a question. 40 governors, we have to questions were the president of questions had to be submitted two days in advance? that's a far cry from from standing in a debate for 90 minutes. so i think we're all anxious to see which joe biden is going to show up. but you think that biden will be formidable? well, i think he really knows how to do this. and like i said, he's he convinced america that that laptop was fake so strongly at that last debate that then the news agencies and social media then started shutting down even the ability to post about that story. and if he's that if he was that good, that about lying about that for years ago, i guess the question would be, when did he know that the laptop was real? and what might he do this time? loud condensing he was citing that letter from the intelligence officials. >> i mean, we've asked them about that sense and obviously the whole issue of social media was before the debate, but i want to ask you about something that you've been saying repeatedly about president biden. take a listen to this talk about being a dictatorship that this is the, this is what's happening under biden, under joe biden were actually living under a dictatorship today, if you want to find out what it's like to live in a dictatorship, we're living in one now how do we know what it's like under a dictatorship? >> and that dictatorship right now is joe biden i understand you don't like president biden's policies on immigration or student loans, but but respectfully, i mean, you're calling the democratically elected president a dictator. well, we've got three branches of government in this president, more like any other his bypass congress, because as a governor of a natural resources state, a big ag state, we're facing over 30 rules and mandates. each one of those could be 800 pages to 2, 1,400 pages long. none of them have come from congress and all of them could literally kill the industries that we have in our state including baseload electricity, which we need to be competitive in the arms race around ai with china, whose building baseload electricity plants like to a month so that's happening without congress. and then of course on the student loan thing, when the supreme court ruled against him, then he just said, hey, we'll figure a different way to do it. so i just think that there's again a double standard here he is bypassing the other two branches of government to push an ideological view. whether it's on economics or whether it's on climate extremism. he's doing that without, without using the other branches. and i think you don't like it. his executive orders and you don't like his policies. i understand that. i don't think anyone expects the republican governor to agree with president biden on that, but it's on a dictatorship. >> well, i think again, part of where this word has come from, it has been there had been a nonstop media attack on president trump saying that oh, that he that he might use executive orders when he takes office. and i'm trying to make again, make the point here. that under this current administration, most of the changes that are driving inflation in our country, the stuff he not doing on the border which he could be doing with executive orders. i mean, the open borders in the inflation are things that he's doing by himself alone. ignoring the other branches of government, i counted trump signed 220 executive orders when he was in office, president biden so far is only signed 139 the same timespan and on executive action on immigration. it was speaker mike johnson, who is calling on president biden to take executive action saying it wasn't congress's responsibility, it was his. butt. but let me move on because as i mentioned, you are one of donald trump's top contenders to be vice president. i've heard from sources that really they believe it's down to you and to senator jd vance of ohio. of course, the caveat trump could could change his mind. but when you look at the ticket and we look at vice presidential selections in the past joe biden helped barak obama with foreign policy inexperience. mike pence help donald trump with evangelicals kamala harris, black voters, women voters for president biden. what would you bring to a trump ticket specifically well, i think we have to just look at the fact that president trump can win this race regardless of who is vice president is he's got the luxury of not having to pick someone. >> i think if we actually look in political history the last time a vice president will pick actually helps swing an election was when kennedy picked lyndon johnson and lyndon johnson help kennedy win that race. with president trump right now, where he is with hispanics, with blacks, with people under age 30. and with independence. i mean, he's very strong across the board, so he can pick some when that you can focus on like, hey, let's, let's get someone gets stuff done. let's get someone who helps him govern. he doesn't have to make a choice like some of the others names that you cited where maybe they needed a blend to actually get the electorial block. what would you bring to the ticket specifically if you're if you're on it, would it be your business experience? you talked about governing? what is it specific? why should you pick you basically? >> well, i think that's that's a reupped president trump. president trump understands the criteria that he wants. he's going to make that choice at the time he makes it. he's got a lot of great choices and i think everybody everybody, the whole country, maybe knows my background, which is both both success in business and success as in the executive branch has governing. but that's his choice on what the criteria that he wants. again, when we've got this big week and the big debate going this week, nobody is really thinking about the vp thing this week, and we should really be focusing on how was joe biden going to defend his record on an open border? i mean, we take a look at what's happening in our country with with the migrant crime that's happening, whether it's teenage girls, whether it's mother, of five, or whether it's young women, college age women. we've got we've got an issue with an open border and joe biden needs to answer why he why he keeps insisting on having this open borders you're one of trump's busiest surrogates. >> i mean, you make arguments like that, right? there are multiple times on cable news, obviously, you do a lot of the sunday shows you're, you're here today. do you think that your best position to serve on his ticket? >> i think that question is up to president trump what we decided when we decide is watching right now, what's your argument to him, i guess, for why you would be a good choice? >> well, that could be a conversation between president trump in myself but i think right now i'm doing what i think that every buddy that cares about the futures countries should be doing, which is understanding that if you care about inflation, which is, which is hurting income producing low-income people the most because it's affecting food price of energy rice electricity, the american dream is being killed by high interest rates. >> housing costs have gone up by over 30%. if you care about that stuff, then you should be out campaigning for president trump. and there is no, there is no expectation that catherine and i have on this thing about about some job and the administration or anything else. we're doing this because i know that our state of north dakota can't take four more years of joe biden, and that translates to the rest of the country. and that's your, that's your the first lady of north dakota that you're referring to there. have you you said that conversation is between the two of you. >> have you had that conversation with trump? that's that process is up to president trump and that's where that conversation should say. >> if you are selected to be on the ticket, would you be? willing to go into your own personal wealth to help fund the campaign like you did with your presidential run. >> again, i think all of that is if we're asked, we'll see what happens. but right now, there's something that's i think that everybody knows anybody that's out there knocking on doors volunteering and making phone calls like the people i've met in michigan in minnesota in virginia, and north carolina, and nevada there's something more important than writing a check. there's people that are actually out there talking to their neighbors and saying, here's why i'm supporting president trump. they're giving of their time. that's their irrevocable gift that they're doing. and we've been getting a lot of our time the last six months. and i think that's what we're seeing, the energy we see on the ground is people that maybe don't have but dimed to give. they don't have ten bucks to give. but some of these people are donated present trump, which is terrific, but they're also giving out in volunteering their time. and that's that's how that's how this race, the race is going to be won and lost by the energy the voters, and the numbers. >> and seeing that, especially the fundraising we've been tracking that. but you mentioned any other jobs if you're not offered the vice presidential selection, would you accept a cabinet position again, there's a conversation. >> the president but right now, i think i've been clearly clear with everybody along. i've was a private sector guy. i was in the private sector up until the day that president trump got elected we got elected on the same night back in november of 2016 and there's lots of ways in the private sector that you can have an impact to move this country forward, particularly with ai right now, because there's an opportunity for us to take 20% of the cost out of government across the whole nation, but only if we've got the power-based to run a hey we're killing our electrical base at a time when we're an arms race with china and if we will future of our country, the future of our economy depends on us being great at innovation, innovation greatness is always driven our country four, and now we're at risk of destroying that because of the climate extremes that are, that want to shut down our power grid in america. >> okay, that sounds like a node to a cabinet position, but we'll see how this plays out. >> governor, it's great to have you. thank you for joining us here on caitlin up next is president biden losing enthusiasm from women voters with the new york democratic governor kathy hochul here to talk about those latest numbers. plus both sides playing the expectations game ahead of thursday's debate will talk about it with our top political experts right after a quick break it's so easy to get your windshield replaced using safe flight until the people i haven't done it already. >> my man, let's start off as a ship and grew to a crack and it just keeps going so what do we do now? 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>> i want to see him recreate the magic that we all saw unfold during this day of the unit of address i was there. i could not believe the electric trinity way over performing expectations and because he has such a clear vision for this country where he wants to take us in the next term, building on what he's done already, investing in families and infrastructure and standing up for women's rights they week, just as we mentioned, the anniversary, he should lean heart into the fact that now one out of three american women live with an abortion ban. that is directly correlated to donald trump's promise. one of the few promises he kept was the overturn roe v wade. and as a result, we have women that are suffering that are driving hundreds of miles for an abortion that are emergency or is being denied health care when their own lives are on the line. that's what we have now. so president biden should remind everybody who did this to american women. >> yeah, we just talked to kate cox last week, obviously the woman who had to flee texas to get an abortion. but when you talk about how women voters are looking at this, this race overall, there's a new kaiser family foundation poll that shows six and ten women are not satisfied with their choices for president, roughly three and ten independent women and black women say that they are less motivated to vote