effective advocate for what i actually do believe. it helps me anticipate the weaknesses my own argument, bolster them and be better prepared when they are challenged. so there are many reasons to expose ourselves to different perspectives. take the issue of a national minimum wage. there are those who believe congress should set the minimum wage for everyone and it should be $15 an hour. there are those who think congress should set the wage but it should be higher or lower than $15 an hour. there are those who have no quarrel with $15 an hour as a minimum wage but they believe that issue should be left to the different states and cities. there are those who believe government should not set the minimum wage at all. so it's the same issue. there are just differentview points. then there are some issues where try as we may, we cannot understand the other side of the issue at all. when you look at president biden immigration plan you will find a lot of money for south and central american countries and you will find a plan to make the passage from the countries to our own southern border safer. you will find a path to citizenship for people who have already crossed unlawfully or overstayed their visa. you will find expanded visas for more workers in the united states. what you will not find is the money, the interest, or the commitment to border security. lay aside the sophe isetry of making it safer to travel to the southern border but doing nothing about securing the southern border. lay that aside. i'm trying to understand the argument against the border security especially since obama and biden once agreed to it, too. >> i voted for offense. i voted unlike most democrats. some won't like it. i voted for 700 miles of fence. >> it will authorize badly needed funding for better fences and better security along our borders and that should help stem some of the time of illegal immigration. >> trey: there is security for almost every federal building. there is security at all courthouses. there is security at sporting events. there is security at the airport. there is security at the mall. there is security in our homes. we call them walls and doors and locks. but it's security. my wife and i have offense in our backyard. it helps me know where to stop cutting the grass. security is everywhere. except in mr. biden's immigration proposal. the home security business in this country is valued at more than $50 billion. $50 billion is how much we value security. that doesn't even include law enforcement or other forms of government provided security. that is home security. that is what we are willing to pay for out of our own pockets for security. so what exactly is the argument against having secure borders? i understand some people don't like walls or fencing or other specific forms of security. i mean i find it ironic because we use walls and fences and metal detectors in every other facet of life, including going on the floor of the house to vote. if you don't like walls or fences, then what do you like? what is your better idea for having a secure border? why even have a border if you don't know who is coming and for what purpose? if you are for open borders, just say so. most americans aren't but if you are, just admit it. an immigration proposal that does not include border security is not a serious plan. it may be a political plan, but it's not a serious plan. americans believe in security. they will never understand why there is more security around the floor of the u.s. house when members vote on immigration bills than there is around the border of our country. so far, i haven't heard a single cogent argument against border security. and now, joining me from the great state of south carolina, on the judiciary committee, senator lindsey graham. senator, how are you? >> senator: thank you very much, trey. good. >> trey: you are a lot smarter than i am. is there an argument against border security that i have missed? >> senator: the first thing i don't agree i'm smarter than you. you got this right. this bill was written for a.o.c. and elizabeth warren. this bill was written by democrats for the most liberal element of the democratic party. i'm going to take their bill and bring it up to the floor of the united states senate to see how many democrats want to vote for legalizing everybody but having no border security. how many people want to change the immigration system without e-verify? you need a wall to keep people from walking across the street in to our country but you need a national e-verify system so that every employee can be checked by the government to see if they are legal. and you find an employer who hires illegal immigrants you need to fine them or take the business away. that will do more to stop illegal immigration than anything including the wall. but none of that is in this bill. this bill was written by the left, for the left. and it's so out of touch with the average american, republicans would be crazy not to exploit this bill politically. >> trey: so it is not inconceivable to believe that this never really was a serious effort at immigration reform. this is a messaging bill. but not a real bill. >> senator: yeah, right. i can't say it any better. this was a bill written by the biden administration to show that he is similar pathetic to the open -- sympathetic to the open borders contingent of the democratic party. if you were serious about stopping immigration you'd have a national everify system to punish employers hiring illegal and build a wall and have visa over-stay fix. none of this is in the bill. if you were serious about the american economy you'd go to the merit-based immigration system to pick people all over the world not just on the southern border. so this is not a serious proposal in terms of passing a law. it's a serious statement by the radical members of the democratic party. and joe biden owns it. 2022 is going to be about immigration. a lot of other things. reparations probably. but i think one of the big issues in 2022 will be the difference between the republican party and the democratic party on the issue of immigration and border security. >> trey: i want to ask you about reparations in a second. take a listen to this and give me your response on the other side. >> would you describe what is happening on the border as a crisis? >> whatever you call it wouldn't change what we are doing because we are urgency from the president on down to fix our system. and make sure that we are better at dealing with the hopes and the dreams of these migrants in their home country. >> trey: sounds like we got a mess on the southern border. >> senator: number one, you can't fix a problem unless you understand what it is. i'm calling on the director of homeland security, seems like a fine fellow to resign his job or admit we have a crisis. if he can't say we have a crisis on the boarder with this big of a spike in illegal immigration he's not situationally aware. he and his team needs to either understand there is a crisis and admit it or leave their job to let somebody new come in. i'm not asking them to listen to trump. i'm asking you to listen to border patrol agents and the custom agents on the border who i talk to about three weeks ago saying that these policy changes are going to lead to a nightmare. no longer do you remain in mexico. you come, claim asylum, you are let loose in the country. the word is out all over central america. that is why you have the unaccompanied minors coming to the border. they have family members of the united states. we no longer deport them or send them to the country. people no longer wait in mexico for the asylum claim five years down the road. they are releasing in the united states and they never show up. the word is up. so to the director of the secretary of homeland security, if you don't understand we have a crisis on border, you need to resign. >> trey: senator, you and i come from a small state. we usually all get along with each other. but there is a little bit of a difference between you and congressman clyburn. we have a difference is and tell us what it is and tell us your perspective on it. >> senator: number one, i respect congressman clyburn greatly. count me in for opportunity but not reparations. there is a provision in the covid bill that will forgive 120% of a loan, a farm loan based on socially disadvantaged definition based on race. so if based on your race the federal government is going to give you 120% loan forgiveness. if you are a white woman in the farming business, you are left out. that is reparations. congressman clyburn denied it but the head of the agriculture in the senate, senate stabenow says this is an important piece of reparation. you get your loan forgiven based on your race and no means test. this is terrible and it has nothing to do with covid. what i say is reparationsdys divides the country and we can bring us together but the democratic party is becoming the party of reparations and under senator scott leadership the republican party will be the party of opportunity. >> trey: well said. thank you for coming on, senator. see you back home. >> senator: thank you. >> trey: coming up, what senator roy blunt's retirement could mean for the republicans as we look ahead to 2022. plus, with president biden cabinet picks facing scrutiny how some politicians only seem to regret the dumb things they said when they are up for promotion. that is next. ♪ ♪ we know it's going to take many forms of energy to meet the world's needs while creating a cleaner future for all. at chevron, we're lowering the carbon emissions intensity of our operations, investing in lower-carbon technologies, and exploring renewable fuels of the future. we work hard to care for the homes we love. but it's only human... to protect the one we share. everyone's crunching! what's crunching? simply unwrap crunch and eat crunch. 100% milk chocolate and crispy rice. crunching makes me extreme. crunching made our breakup easy! i'm in the friendzone! anyone can do it, even anyone. i'm a performer. i'always have been.ne! and always will be. never letting anything get in my way. not the doubts, distractions, or voice in my head. and certainly not arthritis. voltaren provides powerful arthritis pain relief to help me keep moving. and it can help you too. feel the joy of movement with voltaren. >> trey: there is this trend in politics that amuses me. this trend of calling everything a mistake. there is a difference between a mistake and a series of calculated decisions that turned out poorly for you. most of us know the difference. back in the courtroom, you would have the defendants who would stand in front of the judge and say, "i'm so sorry, your honor. i made a mistake." what really happened is the defendant took out an insurance policy on his house and moved everything he cared about out of the house, purchased gas cans, filled them up, got matches to the house and poured gasoline throughout the house and he lit the match. he left. he filed for insurance and denied it all when he was arrested. now he tells the judge it was a mistake. that is not a mistake. it's actually called arson. a mistake is calling somebody by the wrong name or putting on the wrong color socks or making a wrong turn in the neighborhood. systemically tweeting or otherwise criticizing your political enemies is a conscious decision you made that has real consequences now. some of president biden's nominees made the news for the past comments about perceived political opponents. one withdrew to run the office of management and budget. vinita gupta up for high-level appointment in the department of justice. miss tanden called one moscow mitch and then said another high on her own supply. and said the chairman of the very committee she was appearing before was aided by the russians during his campaign. those were calculated decisions she made at the time because she thought it was politically expedient to do it. then she was nominated for a job, which unfortunately required those same senators to confirm her. so, of course, she then expressed deep regret. because it was only then she realized saying those things might possibly be hurtful. i wonder when she realized calling the senate majority leader "moscow mitch" was a mistake and what took her so long to correct it? and when did she realize accusing a senator of being high on her own drug supply might be wrong? some of those tweets and comments were from years ago. it took being nominated for you to realize you were wrong? i mean i have heard of jail jesus before. people founding religion right before the judge is about to sentence them. i guess this is confirmation clarity. you finally realize how hurtful your comments may have been right before you have to ask the person to vote for you. ms. gupta also said incendiary things. she called the republican national convention three nights of racism, xenophobia and outrageous lies. and now less than one year later she deeply, deeply regrets saying that. these apologies remind me of hearings in the past when i was still in congress. >> professor, what did you mean you said they proposed it and that passed because the american people are too stupid to understand the difference? >> i was at an economic conference being glib and frankly trying to make myself seem smart. >> what did you mean by too stupid to understand the difference? >> i didn't mean anything by it. >> well, you said it. you had to have meant it. >> i was once again being glib and trying to make myself seem smarter. >> usually you insult the american voter, not the american public. so you do factor in politics, don't you? >> i have tried a number of occasions, pretended i know more about politics. >> so your defense is you are not a politician. the lack of transparency is a huge political advantage. what is a nonpolitician doing talking about political advantages? >> to try to make himself seem smarter. >> you are a professor at m.i.t. and you are worried about not looking smart enough? >> yes. >> i don't think he was fooling anyone in hearing like i don't think vinita gupta or tanden are fooling anyone today. if it's wrong then, it's wrong today. and deleting the tweets to make it all go away, i don't think it will fool anyone either. there is a difference between being sorry and being sorry you got caught. when you wait until the eve of your confirmation hearing to decide something was hurtful and wrong and regretful, i don't think it will fool anyone. we'll see if it does. joining me now ari fleischer, former press secretary and byron york, from the "washington examiner" both fox news contributors. ari, start with you. you are a communications expert. to me, tweets equate judgment. it's bad judgment. it's not a mistake. you have to try to tweet something, don't you? you have to work at it? >> well, first and foremost, trey, let me say watching that clip of you grill that guy, i'm glad i never have to cross intellectual swords with you. that was quite a show! yeah, look. i think you put your finger on human nature. it's accented in politics. you have two competitive politics and they are competitive and they are supposed to cross intellectual swords with each other and cross over ideas. you were measured by how good of a fighter you are. some people go too far. and that is the thing about politics. i think we are living in a fascinating time. i try to be polite when i communicate. i think that is always important. i think you can still have a good debought and be polite. we are in an era, president trump showed where it you have to fight hard and punch hard, counterpunch. it's a really interesting debate. you just put your finger on. >> trey: well, byron, let me ask you this. i think constantine maroulis --k garland got a number of votes today. but there there is different standard for judging the republican nominees than democrat nominees? >> it appears that the republicans are more incline to open for the democratic nominees than the democratic nominees were to voting for republican nominees. especially when they were appointed by president trump. i think that there is no doubt about it. joe biden has had an easier way with his nominations. on the statements, obviously people say things they regret. twitter gives them the opportunity to do it over and over and other. with some of them, you wonder about the impulse control. whether tanden shouldn't have just gone to bed instead of tweeted some of the things in the middle of the night. i think vinita gupta will get through. when she called the republican convention three nights of racism, xenophobia and outrageous lies, that is what every democrat was saying. if that was a bar to confirmation, there is no democrat on capitol hill who could have made it. it depends what you said and how much other people in the party were saying the same sort of thing. >> my frustration is they call it "a mistake." to me a mistake is calling someone by the wrong name. it's not making a series of calculated decisions to help yourself. then that is saying i regret it. i'm deeply remorseful makes it all go away. i got two guys really smart on the politics. let me ask you about 2022. roy blunt announced he is retiring. we've got a lot of open seats. ari start with you and then to byron. the map looks tough for senate republicans. >> no, i don't think so. by my analysis, by the most liberal analysis you can find to say what is a race one party can steal from another? i think there are nine seats could be competitive. the democrats you could argue have five pickup opportunities and the republicans have four pickup students. there have been a number of retirements but i still think ohio is a safe state for republicans. missouri is likely a good state for republicans. i think it's a fair fight and it could go either way. >> trey: thank you very much. byron, i'll give you more time next time. i short shifted you and i didn't mean to. thank you both for coming on. >> thank you. >> trey: coming up, what is going on in california? how governor gavin newsom is suddenly begging people to be patient and optimistic after his covid restrictions hit the economy, driving many to move away. rick grenell on the effort to recall gavin newsom. that is next. so you're a small business, or a big one. you were thriving, but then... oh. ah. okay. plan, pivot. how do you bounce back? you don't, you bounce forward, with serious and reliable internet. powered by the largest gig speed network in america. but is it secure? 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