headquarters in new york city. it doesn't get much bigger than this. a presidential debate for the ages on thursday, just as millions of voters are only starting to tune in to the presidential campaign. kamala harris today laying the groundwork for the issue that democrats think is a winner, abortion. two years to the day after the supreme court overturned roe v. wade. at the same time donald trump's blatant lies about the fbi raid on mar-a-lago putting him at risk of getting slapped with a gag order days before the debate. the special counsel's plea to judge cannon, insisting trump's claims that he was the target of a plot is putting lives on the line. hostage family ak kuhning benjamin netanyahu of abandoning their loved ones after he dismisses the white house cease-fire deal. we'll show you the video they just released of the october 7th abductions. first, this the a week that could change everything, a potential turning point, even determinative in the race for president. today joe biden and donald trump gearing up for thursday's critical debate, and few issues are as critical as abortion with neither candidate shy about the stakes. >> when maga republicans rose, that's the beginning. they're going to try to ban the right to choose nationwide. they're coming for ivf and birth control next. send me back to the white house and i'll fight to protect roe v. wade and protect american freedom. >> the massive reversal by the supreme court being celebrated over the weekend by the man who says he made it happen, donald trump. >> i want to thank the six supreme court justices, clarence thomas, samuel alito, brett kavanaugh, neil gorsuch and amy coney barrett for the wisdom and courage they showed on this long-term, very contentious issue. this has been a long time it's been fought. >> today's focus on abortion is just aa part of a major strategic push by team biden. his campaign organizing more than a thousand events leading up to the debate, including 300 watch parties on debate night, 1600 events in battleground states. i want to bring in nbc's aaron gilchrist in college part, maryland, "new york times" staff editor. symone sanders-townsend co-host of "the weekend" here on msnbc. with me here in sfud i don't, republican strategist and msnbc political analyst susan del percio. great to have all of you. aaron, this debate night may be the first time a lot of voters are tuning into this race. how is the biden campaign trying to take advantage of that huge audience? >> reporter: i think the campaign is very aware of that reality, chris. what we're seeing over the course of the week is this campaign trying to put this particular issue of reproductive freedom, as they've called it, in front of potential voters early and oftenment vice president harris has led the charge on this issue for several months now on her remro duckive freedom tour. today we saw her talk about that issue through the prosecution, if you will, of former president trump. the campaign has said all along they believe the overturning of roe v. wade was the result of donald trump's actions. the vice president in her remarks, at the core of her remarks today said the actions that donald trump took to put three supreme court you systems on the supreme court, effectively setting up the methodology for the overturning of roe was premeditated. she said states that have subsequently banned abortions were his accomplices and him taking credit for what the supreme court ultimately did with dobbs was a confession of sorts. attend of her remarks she said donald trump was guilty of stealing reproductive freedom from women around the country. i want you to hear a little more what the vice president told this raucous crowd of supporters today. listen. >> donald trump thinks the government is in a better position to tell women what's in their best interest than women are to know for themselves. but joe biden and i trust women [ cheers and applause ] and women trust all of us to fight for their most fundamental freedoms. >> reporter: so the vice president now is headed out west where she will participate in a panel discussion of sorts around this same issue. this is something we saw the first lady talk about over the weekend. there are other events happening all over the country today with local surrogates who are addressing this issue as well. as we said, it's something the campaign believes people are getting energized around and will lead to potentially good results for them come the november election, chris. >> aaron, thanks for that. look, simone, clearly the administration, the biden campaign are not letting up on this day after day after day. they're hammering it home. if you're not listening on sunday, they're going to talk about it on monday. here is vice president kamala harris on msnbc talking about abortion, just a little bit of what she said to us. >> this is not just a matter that is for debate and discussion and intellectual conversation. the real harm that has occurred every day in america since that case was decided and these laws are being passed, to your point, we know the stories about women seeking care because they're going through a miscarriage and being turned away by an emergency room because the physicians there are afraid they're going to be put in jail. in a state like texas they provide prison for life for a health care provider doing their job. and i don't think that when you look at this issue, most people agree you don't have to abandon your faith. you don't have to abandon your faith or deeply held beliefs to agree the government should not be telling women what to do with their bodies. >> there's a lot to unpack there, a lot of different messages, simone. help us unpack it and give us your take on how the campaign is trying to maximize their edge on this issue. >> first, chris, i cannot remember the last time a sitting president or vice president went into a studio to do an interview. usually the folks come to them. the fact that the vice president was in this interview that happened with mika at the ceremonial office at the white house, in the vice president's office or her home at, sitting next to a young lady named hadley who was featured very heavily in governor beshear's re-elections ads because she was raped at a young woman by her stepfather and talked about her story. because in kentucky there were bills on the table and politicians that wanted to make it impossible for young women like hadley to get an abortion. i think what the campaign here is trying to do is to put a face to an issue that is very emotionally charged, but also politically charged across the country for folks. when you put a face to the issue, when you talk about the fact that women are being denied care for a miscarriage, when you talk about under a number of these laws across the country, women are unable to get the care they need if they have an ectopic pregnancy, which is a non-viable pregnancy where the egg is not supposed to be, and the same drug they would give to administer for a medical abortion is the same drug mifepristone that is used to take care of an ectopic pregnancy, women left to bleed out in parking lots, kate cox, a story we know from texas, denied the care she needed for a bibby that she wanted, but the baby, again, was nonviable, pregnancy was non-vinyl, so she needed an abortion, that changes the face of things for folks. i think the campaign has been quite successful as we used to say for the vice president, prosecuting that case, right? setting it up, we can talk about these existential issues, but look at the women we are talking about across the country. >> she's sitting next to one of these women who at 14 was raped by her stepfather. ruth, you wrote a great article. it basically explains biden's lead among women is the smallest of any democrat in 20 years. since 2020 biden has lost ten points among white women and trails by eight. while he holds significant leads among black and hips women, he's lost 30 points among both groups. what's the takeaway from all this? for all the talk about abortion galvanizing women, the numbers suggest he could be in trouble. >> yeah, that's right. he has lost significant ground with women. to be clear, joe biden is still winning among women, but by far less than he was in 2020 and other democrats have in the last 20 years. there was a survey digging into this and talked to 3,000 women. they found abortion is a motivating factor for about 10% of women. for the vast majority of women including 60% of black women and hips women, it really is about the economy. that's their motivating factor. they asked if they're better off financially under biden or trump, that group was much better off financially under trump. >> susan, that's the trick, right? communications can your thing. it may not be a clear-cut win for trump with women, but the economy being so important, i warrant to play some sound from donald trump who is not ceding the abortion issue, by the way, and what he had to say at the faith and freedom coalition. >> yeah, so, some of us in our group are torn on trump, which is why half our group is here and half is not, because of his comments regarding abortion. we want a federal abortion ban and obviously he wouldn't support something like that. >> i do also believe in a federal ban. i don't really believe in any exceptions. i will say that when there are situations where a pregnancy needs to be ended for medical emergency, that is something that shouldn't be blocked, but there's always a solution other than abortion. >> so help us understand that and how both candidates try to appeal to those voters who seem somewhat conflicted. >> i think with trump, his problem is he keeps kind of flip-flopping around. he believes if he's just talking to one audience, he can take credit and say, i got roe v. wade overturned. no one said it could be done and i did it. yet, he's also careful saying, oh, it's a state's issue whichever one wanted, whichever one did not want. the more donald trump talks about this issue, i think the bigger hole he digs for himself. at the end, looking at it from a practitioner's point of view, like with the polling and such, yes, you see abortion low down on the top issues when you ask that question, most pressing issue facing you as a voter. when you start making it a one or the other, abortion or the economy, you start seeing there is a way to parse that question especially on the extremist positions where we're seeing pop up in states no exception for rape or incest or life of the mother. i think that's what both sides will end up trying to do at least down ballot. i think president biden is right to talk about abortion, but also freedom, and that's where i think he's going to make it, as well as on health care. now we don't have ob/gyns flocking to a lot of states because they're afraid of going to jail. >> i think -- look, ruth, if we look at a little broader lens, you point out that it does make sense, right, for the biden campaign to focus on abortion and you quote kellyanne conway who said joe biden and democrats only seem to talk to women from the waist down since abortion is the only issue joe biden has an edge on in the polls. that's not 100% true. but having said that, is it clear from your research and from your writing where the strongest possible messaging is? >> you know, it's interesting. abortion is a strong message in states where abortion is on the ballot. for example, in a state like michigan where abortion feels fairly settled for a lot of women, that wasn't a motivating factor to them and they weren't as motivated to vote for biden. in states like arizona where abortion is on the ballot, there you saw a lot of sdk democratic women motivated to vote and vote for joe biden. i think the biden campaign is seeing this strategically in certain states. nationally the economy still is a better issue for women, particularly inflation and these pocketbook issues. >> so let's talk, symone for what we'll hear from president biden on thursday. do you imagine he's heavily into getting his messaging together for preparing for the debate on thursday? we know kamala harris' message. it has been consistent. it has been all across the country. but it's a different thing to stand on stage against donald trump, right? what do you think the strategy is, particularly on the issue of abortion? >> i think the strategy is going to be -- and you have heard the president -- let me back up and say what you heard the vice president say at the end of the clip you played with mika, about people don't have to give up their long-held personal beliefs to say i don't think the government should be making decisions, it's a very important point for a number of reasons. chief among them, because the president has very long-held personal beliefs. he is a very dedicated and devout catholic. he's spoken in the past about this issue and about how his faith ties into this for him. he says he believes that he does not think that the government should be telling women what to do with their bodies. this is about freedom and other freedoms. i think that's how you're going to hear the president couch that. i will be listening on thursday for and if -- if he's pressed on the moderators by that, if anyone -- much is often made about the fact that you don't hear the president say the word abortion. are the moderators going to press him on that, is donald trump going to corner him on that, even though donald trump has had a number of different positions, and i think the ones he took prior to being back on the ballot are the runs that are closer to what he may actually do. but this is going to be an election and a conversation, especially in the debate on thursday, that, yes, touches on abortion, but will absolutely touch on the economy. for a lot of voters out there abortion is, in fact, an economic issue. when you talk to women across the country, i don't think it's in a vacuum. they're all intertwined together. >> thank you all. be sure to turn in symone's show "the weekend" saturdays and sundays at 8:00 p.m. eastern. prosecutors in the classified documents case asking for a gag order in a hearing slated to begin soon. we'll head to florida for the details after this. l head to fl details after this il-23 inhibitr that can deliver remission and visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. control of crohn's means everything to me. ask your gastroenterologist about skyrizi. ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ learn how abbvie could help you save. 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thereby injecting a political sentiment into what's going on in the courthouse behind us. the hearing begins at 3:00. chris, it should last maybe about a couple of hours. i do not expect a ruling from judge cannon today. >> chuck, the special counsel's office says that donald trump -- and this is from their filings -- quote, deploring knowingly false inflammatory language in the combustible atmosphere that trump has created poses an immediate danger to law enforcement. is he right to be concerned, chuck? >> well, sure, chris. what mr. trump said was remarkably stupid and absolutely wrong. if you made a list of his remarkably stupid and absolutely wrong statements, i think this one would be near the top. the question is whether or not a gag order or trying to restrict his speech in some way is going to be effective. we saw a little bit of this in the new york state case in front of judge merchan where mr. trump was ordered to refrain from making certain comments. he did not, and he was punished. it seemed to rein him in a bit, but it did not. the court is not necessarily the best place to go to remedy every wrong and every sort of silly thing that mr. trump does. it may work, but i'm skeptical. >> so let me ask you, first of all, to do a little fact-check here. because what jack smith wrote was, number one, the search conducted at mar-a-lago was when the former president and his family weren't even there. so hard to assassinate someone who isn't there, but that's not even the point. they say, we should also note, number two, that his legal team was notified ahead of time of the search, and the same protocols were in place when they searched joe biden's property. so fact-check us. what is the proper protocol for what happens in a search like this. >> sure. your two points are good ones, but i think they are secondary, chris. federal law enforcement officers, state and local law enforcement officers are armed always. they have the right to use deadly force under certain circumstances. that doesn't change based on where they are or what they're doing. so before every fbi or dea or atf search, the agents are briefed again and again and again on their deadly force policy. a reminder that this is a very serious topic, one that they have to know by heart, not one that any agent sort of enjoys -- no agent signs up in order to take another person's life. it was completely a normal process for these agents to be briefed on the deadly force policy before executing a search warrant. that's it, chris. that's it. there was no plot, no assassination plot, there's no attempt to get mr. trump at mar-a-lago or mr. biden at his home. all that is utter nonsense. the fact that mr. trump keeps making reckless comments about it is pathetic. again, i'm not sure a court will be able to successfully gag him and stop this nonsense. >> let's just talk about what's on the table which is the gag order. trump's legal team was pretty unsuccessful at challenging the gag order in the new york case. of course, this is a