federal justice department probe more than three years in the making, detailed in a 22-page letter to the maricopa county attorney, detailing "a pervasive culture of discriminatory bias against latinos at the mcso," that's the maricopa county sheriff's office, "that reaches the highest levels of the agency." it goes on, "sheriff arpaio's own actions have helped nurture mcso's culture of bias." in addition, it details a study commissioned by the department of justice that found latino drivers "are four to nine times more likely to be stopped than similarly situated non-latino drivers." there's more in the report documenting detention officers at the sheriff's jail using offensive slurs and profanities, calling them web backs, stupid mexicans and slurs we can't use on the air. according to the justice department's civil rights division, they're also investigating whether they failed to investigate hundreds of sexual assaults and child molestation cases. many of the victims apparently were latinos. earlier this year, when ed lavendera spoke to sheriff arpaio, he painted himself as the victim. >> reporter: did they charge you with anything having to do with abuse of power? >> i don't even know what abuse of power is. i'm the guy being abused over and over. even you are abusing me, over and over again, abusing this sheriff. i violate the law, i do this, i do that. i'm the guy being abused. but you know what? that's part of the job. now let's take it. >> that was sheriff arpaio this summer. late today, he and officials answered the allegations. he said he wasn't going to be made a whipping boy by the justice department. another official claims the letter lacks specific, saying "we're wrestling with clouds." when asked, sheriff arpaio says he has compassion for latinos, but says enforcing the law overrides that compassion. joining us now is thomas perez, assistant attorney general for the civil rights division for the united states department of justice. how bad is this situation as far as you're concerned at the sheriff's office in maricopa county? >> well, i think the department is broken in a number of very critical ways. the discriminatory policing that we documented, and that discriminatory policing is compounded by a penchant for retaliating against people who speak out against them. and when you layer on top of that the challenges in the jail, where people are punished because they don't speak english, and then you look finally at these other issues that have come to light more recently involving the failure to investigate sexual assaults and issues of that nature, it paints a very troubling picture of a department that is broken in a number of important ways and a culture of disregard, frankly, for the constitution that pervades the department. >> what reaction, if any, have you gotten from the sheriff's office? >> well, we met with the sheriff's office this morning. they're still digesting the report. and what we've said and what i continue to say is i would rather fix the problem than fix the blame. we have a lot of work to do. this is serious stuff. when you're talking about the failure to investigate sexual assaults, when you're talking about people who are incarcerated for no reason. many of them are u.s. citizens, legal immigrants. these are serious issues. and in other cities -- and we have 20 investigations under way, anderson, across the country, and more than ever before in our division's history. the approach in virtually all of them has been collaboration and cooperation as opposed to confrontation. that's what i want to do here. i want to work together, not simply with the sheriff's office, but with the entire community, to come up with a comprehensive blueprint for sustainable reform that will reduce crime, ensure respect for the constitution and restore public confidence in the sheriff's office. >> i mean, that all sounds great, though, but i mean, i've interviewed sheriff arpaio before and he's steadfastly unapologetic when it comes to his methods. he basically says i do what i have to do to keep my community safe, i've been voted back into office repeatedly. people are breaking the law, they need to be punished. that seems to be his response. >> i'm hopeful when they read this report and see the troubling findings regarding, again, not only the acts of comission, but the acts of omission, the profiling. and our expert talked about how this is the worst case of racial profiling that he has ever seen in any work he's done in the united states. when they see the culture of tolerance for retaliatory behavior, and then when you see the acts of omission, the failure to arrest and prosecute and investigate sexual assaults, this is about public safety as much as anything. >> should the sheriff keep his job? i mean, you're saying his tactics are unconstitutional. you're saying that he's personally responsible for a culture of bias. should he be the sheriff? >> i think the sheriff needs to fix the problems that we've identified, and we've outlined a roadmap, and it's a roadmap that we have been able to follow, anderson, great success in other cities. and i hope we can follow it here. the rule in our work in the other cities has been collaboration and cooperation, and i hope we can do that here. >> thomas perez, i appreciate you joining us. thank you. >> my pleasure. >> we should mention, we obviously reached out to sheriff arpaio to come on the program. he declined our invitation. with me now, senior legal analyst jeffrey toobin, who we should mention is a former federal prosecutor. >> and former resident of phoenix. >> what do you make of this report? >> this is not a surprise for anyone who's followed sheriff joe over the years. he has bragged about his tough-minded enforcement. all those prisoners in the ridiculous striped outfits, they have to wear pink underwear. this is sort of his m.o. he is going to completely reject this, as he did briefly in a statement this afternoon, and frankly, the more important thing that's going on in phoenix now is that there's a criminal investigation from the u.s. attorney's office there about civil rights violations that i think is the only thing he's going to pay any attention to. this sort of very nice, polite letter he's just going to throw in the trash. >> the justice department puts out this report. does it have any ramifications? i mean, does it have any legal -- >> not yet. >> they're not suing him? >> they're not suing him. it's a letter. they had to go to court just to get him to cooperate with this investigation. and you know, joe arpaio with a 22-page letter? i mean, it's nothing to him. this is something -- you know, he has built his career by defying the feds. interesti interestingly, the department of homeland security today, as a result of this, cut off some of the contracts between the department of homeland security and the sheriff's department. homeland security is run by janet napolitano, former governor of arizona. she has tangled with him in the past, but he's outlasted her. he's up for re-election next year. chances are, he'll run and win again. and the only thing that's going to stop him is a criminal indictment. >> so, is there any chance the justice department would bring some sort of charges? >> well, there has been an investigation undergoing for several months, if not years. it's completely separate. i don't know, you know, i don't want to prejudge it. i don't know what's going to happen there, but that's the only thing that's going to get his attention. >> it's not like this division which wrote this letter. he rejects the letter and they're like, oh, well, now we're going to file charges? >> with all respect to assistant attorney general perez, all this talk of conciliation and cooperation, i don't know what planet they're living on. >> it's political speak. he clearly doesn't want to say, yeah, he's going to blow this off. >> why not say it? this is a guy who has thumbed his nose at the justice department for years. he's sued, he's arrested other public officials in phoenix. this is a guy who plays for keeps. and a polite letter from the justice department is going to do exactly nothing. >> and if there was a criminal charge, would he -- i mean, he can only be voted out of office. >> well, if there's a criminal charge, if he's convicted, he would certainly have to leave office, but he's up for re-election in 2013, i believe, and it's really up to the voters. and the thing that has turned phoenix a little bit on him has been the failure to investigate the sexual assaults. you mentioned it, perez mentioned it a little bit. that's so awful, and it's not, you know, his traditional tough guy act. it's such a dereliction of duty that that's the thing that might sink him with the voters more than any of the immigration stuff. >> why would he fail or refuse to investigate sexual assault? >> because they're hispanic, ans soap in the shower, try to arify what he meant by that. up next, hazing in florida a&m's marching band. yesterday the president suggested it was too shrouded in secrecy to uncover. the governor had something to say about that. lower cholesterol. 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[ chuckles ] it's amazing. ♪ [ male announcer ] this holiday, chevy's giving more. now very well qualified lessees can sign and drive a 2012 cruze ls for around $199 a month. ♪ tonight, florida's governor is calling for the immediate suspension of james a.m. yondz, the president of florida a&m university. governor scott made the suggestion to the chairman of trustees. many are asking whether ammons or other officials missed or overlooked warning signs of hazing, brutal beatings that have landed several students in the hospital over the years. last month, one member of the school's marching band was badly beaten. less than three weeks later, drum major robert champion was reportedly hazed to death during a ritual on the bus. this brought the spotlights to universities where marching bands are the highlight of game day. the bands of these historically black colleges and universities is king. beating victim bria hunter sat down with a reporter from atlanta tv station wxia. her mother was with her and, as you'll hear, didn't let bria say much. >> the first day, everybody -- well, not everybody, but some -- a good few people got hit. >> um, we need to stop. >> okay. >> i'm uncomfortable. >> he told me that last -- >> you ain't answering none of those questions in terms of him. >> okay. >> she has to go back to school. i'm not going to be there. >> florida a&m's president, though, has spoken at length, telling jason carroll yesterday that hazing at a&m has shrouded in "a veiled secrecy." >> one of the things we have found with hazing is that there is a -- there is a veil of secrecy. this is a culture not just here at florida a&m university. it's on college and university campuses all across america. >> that suggestion that no one could have known flies in the face of common sense. critics and experts say ammons either was or should have been aware of the problem. they know about bria hunter's beating two weeks before champion's death. problems with the band were apparently common knowledge. 26 members were excelled for hazing shortly before champion's death. here's more from 1989 to 2001, three members were badly beaten two sued. one collected a settlement and the other a lawsuit worth $1.8 million. to top all that, band hazeings are the norm at other historically black colleges and universities. we'll have more on that shortly from guest professor ricky jones, author of "black haze." first, the latest from jason carroll from tallahassee. jason? >> reporter: well, anderson, the governor tells me that he spoke to ammons early this afternoon. he basically explained his point of view, basically saying now that there are two investigations going on at the university, one, of course, into the hazing, a separate investigation into allegations of financial fraud, the governor felt as though it was best for someone else to be acting as president. listen to what he said when we caught up with him just a little while ago. i just want to go over very quickly your decisions behind the recommendation to have dr. ammons step aside while the investigation takes place. >> right. and all i've suggested is that he step aside during the investigation. i'm not asking for him to resign. you know, fdle came out -- >> florida department of law enforcement. >> yeah, saying they're looking at financial irregularities. i think it's in florida's desk interests and the school's best interests that he step aside and make sure there is a thorough investigation. >> reporter: when i spoke to the university president yesterday, he felt as though he has done everything that the law has required him to do. do you think that is enough? >> well, i think you have to also just look at perceptions, and you want to make sure that things are perceived that are being done the right way. i mean, this is tragic. i mean, it starts with the death of a young man, and then it goes to now, you know, the investigation expanding into financial err regular leyritz. i mean, i think it's in his best interests to say, look, i want to make sure that there is no question but this university is doing the right thing and is cooperating. >> your reaction from the school and from the president? >> reporter: well, anderson, this evening i spoke to one of ammons' associates, who said that he's extremely disappointed that the governor would make this recommendation. he said ammons is crest-fallen that he wanted to stay and fight for the university. having said that, ammons released a statement, basically saying "i'm sure that this investigation will determine that under my leadership, the administration acted appropriately. i serve at the pleasure of famu board of trustees and i will abide by whatever decision the board reaches." and anderson, i can tell you that the board will be reaching a decision on monday. >> all right, jason carroll, as always, thanks very much. joining us now is the university of louisville professor ricky jones, director of race and inequality and author of "black haze: violence, sacrifice and manhood in black letter from tern fraternities." what do you think of this action? >> warranted. i think it's warranted. in the penn state instance, there's been talk about jerry sandusky and joe paterno, but in academic circles, there's talk of graham spanier. he was seen as an ideal university president, but when things like this happen on your watch and you don't take appropriate actions, change needs to be made and i think the same will happen with ammons. i think if these moves are made more often, i think presidents will be more act a aggressive in terms of speaking against hazing at famu. >> what do you think is at the core of this kind of hazing? i don't think a lot of people think about a band as being a place for hazing, but there's sub groups within this band at florida a&m. there's a group from georgia, which apparently robert champion was part of, and all these different save groups, i guess, have their own kind of codes of discipline. what gets to the core of this, in your opinion? >> the drive of students to belong, and that's why arguments that are made by folk who say, look, people who consent to this are the folks who really have to stop and the practice will go away. they're absolutely wrong. you cannot put the entire onus on a group of students who usually are between ages of 18 and 24 years old, and they are driven by the desire to belong. so, they're going to do a whole lot of things to belong. folk who will not submit to the behavior are folks who are not going to join the band, not going to join the group letter organizations, any of these. so that's at the core of it. the bands are incredibly popular. students who join it want to be accepted. they don't want to be socially ostraci ostracized. but the president and his administration should know that that's a very common practice. i mean, i know and i never attended famu or worked there. >> we had this debate last night on the program with you and with roland martin and it was an interesting debate, got a big response on twitter as well. you seem to say this isn't just kind of hazing as people think about it at fraternities across the country, that there's a level of aggression here or violence here that is different, correct? >> well, yeah. i mean, the record speaks for itself. joel harris, christa hyde in los angeles, donny wade down at prairie view university. you know, these people are being beaten to death or drowned or folks are suffering brain damage, comatose, all of these things. so, if people want to disagree with me, that's fine if they want to disagree with my argument, but they can't give me my argument. and the point is this, i never said that hazing does not occur in white reek organizations. i never said white groups shouldn't be disbanded. i'm simply saying the manifestation is different in black groups. but anderson, you have to understand this, these are groups that are very difficult to have an honest and reasonable conversation with. you'll have folk who are affiliated with famu and with this band who will simultaneously say we really grieve for robert champion and his family and then pivot and say, well, he shouldn't have consented to this and the band can't go away. when did these organizations become so sacred that we can't have conversations about banning them from our campuses because -- >> why is this different, though, than what happens at fraternities across the country, white fraternities? >> you know, there are so many theories on that, and we would need a whole lot longer to discuss that, but it is clear that it is different. it's much more physical. and again, the white groups do haze, but not as physical as the black groups. and we do not have the manifestations that we see at hbcu bands and pwi bands, pre.com intentionally white institution bands. we simply don't see that behavior. >> the other thing i was struck by that you said last night, you think the only way to stop this is to eliminate the organization totally, to eliminate the band. that's not really a practical solution, though, is it? >> i disagree. i think it is a practical solution. you know, when you have talks about eliminating bands or eliminating greeks, people talk like this hasn't happened. this has happened at universities throughout this country. they've been private schools, the colbys, bowden college, williams, princeton. they've eliminated greek systems, and i'm sure they would eliminate bands if they were behaving in the way these bands are behaving. so, there's schools that have done this. now, it's much more difficult at public universities, and this is why i said not only do we need college and university administrators, but we also need elected officials to get involved in producing new laws that are going to speak to this because of right of association laws. so, i don't think that is something that is beyond the pale. i understand i'm in the minority in making that argument. i'm certainly not making any friends in the band or from famu or in black reek organizations and i don't care, because the point is, what are we going to do to preserve the lives of our students at our universities throughout the country? i think that's more important than the preservation of a greek system or a band. and i really do wonder, with folks who pivot and argue for these organizations and argue for these processes, what would they do and what would they say and how would th