when daniel day-lewis came on stage that my name was in that envelope. >> a passion of politics. >> that's what i'd like to say to my president whom i'm so proud of, but i want him to stand up on his hind legs and fight these rat bastards. >> and what happened in that hot tub with jack nicholson. >> he was still in the tub and i climbed down and he reached up and shook my hand and looked right in my eyes, nowhere else and he said that was beautiful, honey. >> this is "piers morgan tonight." >> juan williams made headlines when he was fired from national public radio after making controversy comments about muslims. now he's written a book called "muzzled" and he joins me to have an honest debate. >> good to be here. >> you feel you've been muzzled? >> once they fire you piers. >> you've gone on to bigger and better things. >> i agree. >> fabulously successful, rich, writing best selling books. you know, it hasn't gone too badly. you haven't exactly been gagged. >> well, when they take the microphone away and take away an audience i absolutely loved at national public radio, i think in essence what they're saying is you're muzzled. they're saying i violated their journalistic ethics and standards by saying what was the truth, my feeling that i get anxious when i'm in an airport and i see people in muslim garbs given what happened on 9/11. >> let's play the exact offending quote. >> good. >> in realtime. it was a year ago this week. >> yeah. >> when i get on a plane, i got to tell you, if i see people who are in muslim garb and i think they're identifying themselves first and foremost as muslims, i get worried. i get nervous. >> okay. so here's my thought of that. is that i would have steered clear of saying that. >> uh-huh. >> so you went further than my -- i instinctively would have gone. i would have thought you're into murky territory because what you're basically doing is saying hey, look, these people look a bit threatening. and you're labeling an entire race, you're saying. >> oh, no. >> that's how it could have been taken. >> no, i think not at all. in fact, this and again in the course of trying to advance honest debate, i think it's necessary to say to people, i'm not playing politically correct games with you. i'm not going to dodge, be evasive. let's go straight for it. i'm going to tell you how i genuinely feel. and in saying so, then i'm going to go on to make the larger point which is, and again speaking to your point, piers, it's not legitimate in this country given our history of internment of the japanese and the like to then stereotype any one group of people and i made the point at the time, not subsequently, not as an amendment but at that time, that in fact, we don't stereotype christians based on the behavior of timothy mcveigh or the westboro baptist church. so you don't want to do that. you don't want to encourage people liking that minister in florida that wanted to burn the koran. >> i totally agree. how would you have felt, honestly if a muslim commentator on npr had said you know something, this had been after say an african-american had committed some terrible crime. and said you know something, every time i get on a plane i see an african-american, i feel uneasy. how would you honestly have felt? >> i think it was being ridiculous. i think he was being tran densetious. they're being a provocateur in that sense because they're no such legitimacy. stop and think about it. >> are you saying you were ridiculous. >> no, i'm saying they would be ridiculous to try to draw such an analogy. remember, there is a reality after 9/11, there's a legitimate connection in this world given what happened in london, madrid between radical extreme islam and terror. if you're telling me that black people who may have committed some crime, you could say look, an african-americans are in terms of percentages more likely to have committed some sort of crime, more in jail and incourse rated in the united states but that's not what we're talking about here. we're talking about people who used airplanes as instruments of terror. >> you're talking about a very small number of people. >> that's what i'm saying. >> you didn't say that the at the time. you didn't say when i get on a plane, i worry it may be one of the 20 people that will are likely to ever do anything to this plane. what you said was, muslims. when i see them in muslim garb. >> i said people who are first and foremost identifying themselves as such. i might add i have run into people who say to me, the people who attacked us on 9/11 weren't dressed in muslim garb. they were dressed in ordinary western clothes. i take that to heart. my point is that the feeling, the visceral response, the gut is to say i know these people are muslim and they're making a point of celebrating their islamic faith at this moment as we're getting on this plane. you know what. >> you still feel uncomfortable. >> i do. that's just a feel can, it's the truth. >> what do you do when you get on a plane and see the muslim garb. >> that's exactly the point. it's not a matter of them advocating some policy or separate treatment. so many people, one of the things i take away now a year later, is first i was kind of shell shocked that people would make this accusation against me. i've written the biography of the first supreme court justice, african-american supreme court justice that i would be called a bigot and said to be a bad journalist, just incredible. then you get beyond yourself. i realized this resonated with so many people who said they had had a similar experience in an airport or even on a larger scale felt that there's so much now in this country given the way the extreme, the far left and far right dominate conversations, that you're not supposed to say this. bite your tongue. if you do say this, you're not a good republican. you're a rhino. you're not a good democrat, you're a dine know. you're not a good jew if you have questions about israeli policy. you're not a good black guy if you're talking about some problem in the black community. you're not a good christian if you're saying -- people are saying, there's just too much of this and it inhibits, it hamstrings honest discussions. just tell us what's on your mind. >> what was the honest debate you hoped to have by saying you feel uncomfortable around muslims on planes? >> it's right there. go to the videotape as they used to say on the sports shows because what i was saying is you know what, we need to be cautious. america is a country founded on religious liberty and we don't want to in any way put muslims in a box and treat them in such an inferior way. >> i'm playing devils advocate. isn't that what you were doing? >> no, absolutely not. >> exactly what you were -- putting them in a box. >> not in the least. >> you're saying when i get on planes these weird people in costumes makes me feel uncomfortable. >> no. >> you have no regrets? >> i'm glad you put it that way because you know, it's one of those things where the business we're in, there are times the next morning when you're waking up and said i wish i had said it this way. i've never had such a moment here. i tell you why, because it's all said there at the time. and it's said in the spirit of building an honest debate. in other words, i'm making a point of saying i understand, i'm not playing politically correct games with you, but i want you to know i'm hearing you and i acknowledge the truth that the people who attacked us in the planes were muslims and they cited their faith and talked about being in jihad and therefore, i want to go on to make this larger point. i ask you to understand and listen to me, which is america is a country of religious liberty and we do not want to stigmatize people by speaking about them in some negative way. >> why didn't you say this on your own show on npr. >> i would have, that's the thing. >> you didn't. part of the problem it seemed to me was you said it on fox. >> no, no, that's the problem for npr. >> you say it on a right wing network. you're automatically brackets you into that kind of mind-set. doesn't it? >> not at all. in fact, it wasn't any kind of right wing conversation. and it wasn't -- i was on with o'reilly and he was asking me, he said to me, what's right wing, he says tell me where i'm wrong. he was opening himself up to a real conversation. and i'm saying, bill i understand your concern in saying that in fact, the people who attacked us and everybody says don't be so insensitive. it's not politically correct to say that. >> i think the issue for you is that you were working at npr. that's the problem. npr ought to have i think better standards perhaps than some of the cable -- >> they can have any standards they like. >> cnn would be pretty upset if i had said what you said. >> i don't think so. >> they would have seen it as a form of racial stereotyping. >> no, they won't have. i don't think so. if you look at what has happened in the year that's passed and you see these executives when they brought in their own law firm to do a review of this, their own firm came away saying we don't see there are any such standards in place and subsequently you see executives leaving npr, then maybe understand. this is not a case of people who then said you really did violate some standards and cnn would say, i don't know, cnn may have its own standards but there were no standards in place at npr at the time that would have justified such an action. >> you're not allowed to throw drink on my desk. >> i caught my hand on the water glass here. >> trying to cool you down there, juan. let's go to i an break. clean-up the horrific mess you caused as usual. >> we'll come back and talk herman cain. >> it's a deal. 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[ male announcer ] get the venture card at capitalone.com and earn double miles on every purchase every day. what's in your wallet? i was gonna say that. uh huh... that is better than today. since 1894, ameriprise financial has been working hard for their clients' futures. never taking a bailout. helping generations achieve dreams. buy homes. put their kids through college. retire how they want to. ameriprise. the strength of america's largest financial planning company. the heart of 10,000 advisors working with you, one-to-one. together, for your future. ♪ back with my guest juan williams. interesting point before you started smashing my desk to pieces with the water. >> yes, i know. >> the interesting point about the political correctness in america right now. i spent an hour with herman cain, very charismatic man. very determined it 0 say i'm not going to play is the normal political game here, not going to talk in the way that i'm supposed to talk, not going to hide away from opinions that i genuinely have, nor am i going to ram these opinions down the public's throat. he was all for free expression. i'm not sure you can do that though if you're going to be the president of the united states. >> you know what, i think people are hungering right now for honesty from the politicians and they're not getting it. and they see they're not getting it when it comes to difficult conversations. just take a range. immigration reform, congress paralyzed. can't get it done. conversations stop. people stop talking about terror babies, anchor babies, herman cain with electrified wall. he says it's a joke. >> i think he genuinely does think it's a good idea to have an electrified fence on board. >> are you talking about you're willing to kill people trying to come into the country. it's a diversion from the real conversation. talk about an assault on honest debate, the sub title of this book. if you want to say there are 13 million illegal immigrants in the country country, most of these people do not come by scurrying across the border. they fly into the country i think it's almost half of them come into the country and overstay visas, and we have a situation in arizona, alabama, where even the chamber of commerce, the business community is saying we need workers, especially low wage workers. let's have an honest conversation. everybody's saying build an electrified fence. immigration is one issue. guns is another issue. budget is another issue. race relations another issue. >> is the tea party racist? herman cain said to me again, he said there are probably racist elements within the tea party but he doesn't believe that the party itself is inherently racist. if it was, what is he doing as the standard bearer for the tea party now? >> i would agree with him. i think there are elements that have popped up when they're making monkey cartoons about the president or i think those signs that have the president as the joker, some of the kind of very personal attacks and then you know, it gets so closely linked to people involved in the birther movement and say obama is a muslim, he's a communist. at some point you feel like they're trying to define him as the other and you think is this race related because the fact is he's the first african-american president. >> so what herman cain is not racist. is there a danger for him also being a black american that he is being used in some tokenist way as if to say look, we're not racist. look, we've got herman cain. >> that's the critics' point. >> do they have a point? >> i don't know they have a point because they haven't proven it. the fact is herman cain is doing more than a sort of token performance on the republican side. in some polls he leads the pack. that's no oh, we'll make a gesture to this black guy in order to excuse our racism or the elements of race yim that exist in the party. to the contrary, herman cain is outperforming any projections. if you would have asked me early on, does eshave a chance of leading this race in the late october, i would say absolutely not. and i would say that you know, this 9-9-9 plan is going to be mocked. and i think he's coming in for heavy fire but you know what? lots of americans like him. i was down in florida after the straw poll. people said to me, you underestimate herman cain. this is a republican. >> i liked him because he made me laugh. he's a funny guy. he's self-of aware. >> right. >> and he knows where he's come from. part of his i didn't agree with him, for instance, about his attack on the occupy wall street protesters. i think he's wrong to say the bankers aren't really to blame and blame yourselves and go and blame the white house. can he win the nomination? could we be in a situation come january where you have a black american as he likes to call himself. >> right. >> against as he calls president obama an african-american? >> i wrote just such a column, just such a column for foxnews.com. >> i read it. >> and yes, i think this is possible and i'm telling you why it's possible. because as we sit here, you've just come from this republican debate. you realize even as they become more combative and high energy, it's in large part a deal where mitt romney has a substantial bankroll and he has been consistently performing getting about a quarter of the vote. but the other side of that is there ever, three quarters of these republicans and especially the tea party folk who are so behind herman cain don't like mitt romney. they see mitt romney as the establishment. they consider him a flip-flopper, all the rest. and don't so much respond to the idea that he among all the republicans would do best against president obama. >> because the thing i discovered about herman cain is beneath the smile, there's pretty extreme views. you get him on homosexuality for example, abortion, whatever the issue of the day may be, he's pretty far right. >> you know what i think, people forget not only is it the case that he was a successful businessman, federal reserve chair, even a rocket scientist at some point in his career but he's a radio talk show host. i think a lot of this kind of thing that drives the base politics in the country comes from people who exercise this provocative language, this rhetoric that excites the base. when you're watching the republican primary debates right now, you're watching a very limited slice of conversation on the american political scene. it's red meat from republican candidates who are trying to appeal to the far right, the extreme base of the party in order to win that nomination. and that's basically mitt romney's problem is that you know what? if he gets in there and starts doing it, then he's going to lose his largest calling card which is that he could appeal to independent voters and pull them 'from president obama. >> let's take another break and come back and talk about the state of america. how do you think obama is doing? i'm going to presume you were very proud as a black american to see him elected. are you as proud today as you were two or three years ago? >> we'll talk. 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