here in washington last night, but the real punches were thrown in des moines. >> let's be candid. the only reason you didn't become a career politician is you lost to teddy kennedy in 1994. >> the last thing bibbyi netanyu needs to have is not just a person who is an historian but also someone who is running for president of the united states stand up and say things that create extraordinary tumult in his neighborhood. >> if you want a difference, michele bachmann is the difference. >> if freddie mac is bailed out by a bailout, so i think, newt, you got some of our taxpayer money. >> if you will cheat on your wife, if you will cheat on your spouse, then why wouldn't you cheat on your business partner or why wouldn't you cheat on anybody for that matter? >> back in 1984, newt, i was running for the united states senate and i did not support an individual mandate and i was a conservative. you strayed on that issue as you have on others. the record is important. >> and presidential candidate rick santorum joins me now from des moines. senator, thank you for joining us. let me talk to you about the topic of the day and get your take on why you think at this point newt gingrich is doing so well. >> you know, i think people are looking for a strong conservative leader, and that's what we've been out talking to the people of iowa about. newt's done well at the debates. i think that's been his forte. his forte is glib. there's no question about it. newt is full of ideas and has a professor-teacher mentality, if you will, an ability, and i think he's connecting with the audiences out there. i think people are also going to look at his leadership ability and look at his record and whether what he says he's going to do is actually what he did when he had the opportunity to do it. and i think that's where as people start focusing a lot more on those details, i think that's where we're going to rise and in fact are rising here in iowa, that if you look at the leadership difference between the two of us, i was able to lead and successfully get a lot of things done when i was in washington, d.c. and had the respect of my colleagues, was elected to leadership positions and i think newt had, let's say, a much more difficult path once he was in leadership. it wasn't just about ideas, it is about executing those -- on those ideas, and i was successful in doing so, and i would say that newt had a bit of a problem that caused him to not have a lot of support among his colleagues and had problems as speaker. i think that's going to be a difference between the two of us. the other thing is, the issue of being a consistent conservative, someone -- trust is a big deal. >> sure. and the consistent conservative is something that you've hit very hard on, saying, look, i'm the real conservative in the race. you have suggested that newt gingrich is not. and yet in poll after poll, what we're seeing is that members of the tea party, which i think you would agree are the most conservative element of the republican party, overwhelmingly are supporting newt gingrich at this point. >> yeah. i would still say it is, believe it or not, still early. there's still three weeks left even before iowa. a lot of information is yet to disseminate out, and i think as it continues to get out there and settle in people's minds, they're going to see a very different record. it is interesting if you watched the debate last night between romney and gingrich, they were back and forth on some peripheral issues but the core issues, whether it was the wall street bailout or cap in trade and globe global warming which is a huge government takeover. the same thing with individual mandate. again, another big top-down government takeover of a sector of the economy, gingrich and romney are in the same place. that's not -- heck, the tea party was formed as a result of big government and the health care issue and gingrich is on the wrong side. i think we need -- and i think the tea party people realize -- we need a clean, clear contrast. we need this race to be about barack obama and his record, not with republicans agreeing about that record. that's the last thing we should nominate is someone who has a bad record on some of the most important issues that we're going to be dealing with, like bailing out wall street, like climate change, like the obama care. >> on the substance of things that you talked about, but you also mentioned earlier the idea of leadership, what kind of a leader would newt gingrich be, what kind of a leader has he been. i want to play you sort of a montage of what some of those who worked with him in the house had to say. >> most of us are terrified to death that he would become the republican nominee. we know that he has these visions of grandiosity. >> i'm not inclined to be a supporter of newt gingrich's having served under him for four years and experienced personally his leadership. >> he's too self-centered. the time he was speaker was one crisis after another and they were almost all self-inflicted. he puts himself at the center of everything. >> susan molinari, tom coburn, peter king, all names familiar to you, i know. you have, in fact, praised newt gingrich along the line saying he was an inspiration to you, sort of getting you on your conservative path in politics. will the real newt gingrich stand up, which is it? is he a man who you say has some questions about his leadership or is it the guy who's been kind of a far-away mentor to you? >> he is a great teacher. that's what he is. he is a very good teacher. he was a teacher before he came into politics and he's a very bright man who has a lot of ideas. the question is, can you stay focused on those ideas, can you execute those ideas, and can you motivate the american public to be able to support those ideas. >> but does he have the temperament to be in the oval office? do you think he has the temperament to be in the oval office? >> well, i would just say, look at the experience he had as speaker and look at my experience i had when i was in leadership in the united states senate. >> and what do you think? >> three years into his -- i would just say, three years into his speakership there was a conservative revolution to try to get rid of him as speaker. that doesn't happen very often where you have the speaker of the house in a time when republicans are on the ascendancy and the person who led them in large respect to that would have that kind of rebellion within the ranks among conservatives. i think that should tell you something and just the opposite, i was a leader. if you were a conservative around this country and you wanted something done in the united states senate, you came to rick santorum's office because that's where it got done, whether it was national security or agricultural or economic, second amendment, we were the go-to guy to get conservative things accomplished in the united states senate. i just think that's a very distinct difference between a conservative revolution among house members about his leadership as opposed to conservatives coming to rick santorum and trying to get things done in the united states senate. >> let me move you along to something that you said last wednesday at a republican jewish conference talking about the president, his foreign policy. i'm going to play that for our viewers as well as something that the president said in response. >> this president, for every thug and hooligan, for every radical islamist, he has had nothing but appeasement. >> ask osama bin laden and the 22 out of 30 top al qaeda leaders who have been taken off the field whether i engage in appeasement. >> appeasement? i mean this is a president who's killed more terrorists than were killed in the bush administration. he took out osama bin laden. he has launched more drone attacks against terrorist targets than the bush administration did and yet you accuse him of appeasement, which is a very loaded word, as you know, toward terrorists. >> it's a very accurate word. what president obama was doing was continuing existing bush policies with respect to al qaeda and respect to afghanistan. i was talking about the new threats that have come up under his administration. and at every single turn the president has appeased those who would do us harm. let's talk about president ahmadinejad and the iranians who are the biggest threat to israel and to our national security. he has done nothing but appease the iranians to say that he will negotiate -- in fact did negotiate -- >> he imposed sanctions, did he not? >> he opposed weak sanctions. he opposed tough sanctions. >> imposed. >> and continues to impose any meaningful sanctions on the iranians. he has done nothing to try to stop their nuclear program. i mean we have a nuclear program that is underweight. he's refusing to do anything covertly or militarily to try to stop the development of a weapon that will fundamentally change the national security position of this country and the world by having this purveyor of terror who has -- >> what would rick santorum do -- >> purveyor of terror -- rick santorum would be funding the pro democracy movement, which president obama has not done. there was a bill that i passed, i was author of back in 2006 that gave money -- was supposed to give money to help the pro-democracy movement in iran. the president has not spent a penny in iran to try to do that. imposing tougher sanctions, which the president has opposed. number three, we would be using all of our assets to use covert activity to disrupt and destroy the capability of them to develop a missile technology as well as nuclear technology. and fourth, i would be working with the israelis and publicly stating that iran must abandon this nuclear weapons program, must open it up to inspectors or else we will work with the state of israel to take out and degrade that capability via military force. >> let me try to button this up by saying a couple things. first, i know the president has in fact imposed some tougher sanctions and has said nothing's off the table when it comes to iran and its nuclear capabilities -- >> candy, hold on. hold on. stop, candy. that's just not true. ask robert menendez and ask all the folks in the united states senate who want to impose the real sanction that will make a difference on iran, and the president has opposed it. now that's just a fact. he also has recognized the state of syria, called assad a reformer, has continued to have an embassy there when in fact this is a real thug that is a real threat to the state of israel and to the stability of the region. and again, here's the interesting link. this is a state of iran -- the greatest area he's appeased is iran, which is the greatest threat, and here he is, recognizing assad setting up an ambassadorship with a client state of iran who is a great funder of hezbollah, a threat to israel and the region. you go to egypt. again, he supported the muslim brotherhood as it turns out into overthrowing an ally in egypt. there is a consistent pattern of contingencies that have come up under this administration where he has opposed the freedom fighters and has gone with the radical islamists. that is a problem for the security of israel and our country. >> okay. let me move you on. i think we could probably go round and round a couple times on this, but two really quick questions here, if i could. the first is, have you in fact talked to sarah palin about receiving her endorsement? and do you intend to follow through and, as far as you know, is the trump-moderated debate going to happen with the two of you, newt gingrich and you? >> well, i certainly hope so. donald trump i think would be fairer than a lot of the folks that have been moderating debates over the past few months. >> what about sarah palin? >> i would look -- sarah palin? i reached out to her just to thank her for her kind comments and said i'd appreciate any help that she could give us. she was very kind in responding. she's going to make her decision as to when she's going to endorse or if she's going to endorse. i did not reach out to her before she made the kind comments about me and, but i did want to thank her for doing so. >> senator and presidential candidate rick santorum, thanks so much for your time today. later in the program, when you're a presidential candidate, everything about you becomes relevant, even your high school nickname. we'll tell you what rick santorum's classmates called him. but next, is newt gingrich a changed man? >> i mean, i think he is a vastly more mature, much calmer individual at this point, that he really is of a temperament these days to become president of the united states. >> the conservatives that he's turned his back on should recognize the fact that he's not a conservative. and people that care about that point to other things, his endorsement and co-sponsoring of legislation in 1989 with nancy pelosi. ♪ [ multiple snds ng melodic tune ] ♪ [ malennounc ] at northrop grumman, makthworld a feplace. th's value performance. northr gruan. how did i get here? dumb luck? or good decisions? ones i've made. ones we've all made. about marriage. children. money. about tomorrow. here's to good decisions. who matters most to you says the most about you. massmutual is owned by our policyholders so they matter most to us. massmutual. we'll help you get there. to find you a great deal, even if it's not with us. [ ding ] oh, that's helpful! well, our company does that, too. actually, we invented that. it's like a sauna in here. helping you save, even if it's not with us -- now, that's progressive! call or click today. no mas pantalones! joining me now from manchester, new hampshire, john sununu, former governor of new hampshire and supporter of mitt romney. here in washington, bob walker, form you are u.s. congressman who is advising the gingrich campaign. je mank, thank you for being here. >> nice to be with you. >> if only because the calendar is closing in on them and because the race still appears to be pretty fluid, it was quite the debate last night. the consensus seems to be, reading some of the analysis, that newt gingrich held his own and did very well and that mitt romney made a huge mistake. so i want to start out just by playing for our viewers something that happened last night in the debate between rick perry and mitt romney. >> i'm just saying, you are for individual mandates, my friend. >> you know what? you've raised that before, rick. and you're simply wrong. >> it was true then. and it's true now. >> no, rick. i'll tell you what. 10,000 bucks? $10,000 bet? >> i'm not in the betting business -- >> oh, okay. okay. >> governor sununu, first to you. this is widely being interpreted as yet another example of mitt romney not totally being in touch with the american people. the democrats are off and running with what could you do with $10,000. your response. >> well, look. he used a figure of speech. i think the only thing that will come out of that is remind people about a $5,000 -- $500,000 outstanding bill at tiffany's. those are not the things you should judge whether somebody should be a president. >> they aren't. but don't -- sure, but people do judge -- i mean these little moments get bigger than they are. i will grant you that. but nonetheless, that's what happens. is this harmful to him, do you think? >> look, you have the same thing happen to poor rick perry. i think rick perry would make a decent president, but to have him judged by a 30-second senior moment is as silly as -- and as unwise as judging people on the basis of a 30-second quip or a response in a debate. you've got to go to the issues. this country has big problems. we have a jobs problem. we have a president that's doing nothing on jobs. i think what mitt romney did last night was focus on jobs. and i think that's the right place to go. >> congressman, on a scale of one to ten, how damaging is that kind of clip, which i can assure you is getting played all over the place. >> the fact is that anything that comes out of these debates that ends up being carried in the way that this one is is going to be harmful. but i agree with john sununu that there needs to be a focus on the big issues, which is exactly where newt gingrich has been throughout this campaign. he has focused on the need for economic growth and how we can create jobs in this country. he's focused on the need for changing our foreign policy so that we speak with a very, very strong voice in foreign policy. i mean he has made the campaign an issue-oriented campaign and has not done the kind of thing that you just heard from the romney campaign of going personal all the time in terms of the debate formats. >> it is easy not to go personal when in fact you are the front-runner. >> he hasn't been the front-runner -- >> but that's not true. last night governor romney avoided going personal. >> but you just went personal a few minutes ago, john. >> on what? >> well, using the business of the tiffany stuff. it -- that's a very personal thing. >> isn't that analogous to the $10,000? >> no, it is not at all. it is not at all. >> oh, come on. come on. >> the fact is that the quip by governor romney last night fits a matter of perception and so on. but the fact is here that newt continues to be a positive force in this campaign. he continues to define the big issues. the people who are coming after him are coming after him largely for speaking the truth, and that is a major item in this campaign. the fact is that he spoke the truth about the palestinian history. the fact is he's spoken the truth about the need for tax cuts. >> that's absolutely -- that's absolutely ridiculous. and the fact is that what he did with that statement on the palestinian history is take bipartisan u.s. policy that's been the policy of a number of previous presidents, of both parties, and a u.s. policy that is trying to deal with a tough fragile situation in the middle east, and in an effort to put himself above the whole -- a little smarter than everyone he throws out a phrase that can undermine the u.s. capacity to deal with issues. >> spoken just like an establishment republican, candy. the fact is that all those establishment republicans opposed ronald reagan when he called the soviet union the evil empire and so on. >> he was already president at the time. >> the establishment republicans supported ronald reagan. >> that is not the fact, john. the fact is establishment republicans turned on reagan at that point -- >> oh, come on. you guys are trying to wrap yourself in mantels of grandeur with churchill and reagan. i got news for you. >> it is not a matter of grandeur at all. >> yes, it is. every time this man speaks he tries to put himself in a position where he's perceived as being better than those that are involved in the discussion. >> that's just wrong. the fact is that newt gingrich throughout this campaign -- >> he did it to paul ryan! he did it to paul ryan! he took paul ryan and threw him under the bus! >> john, you going to let me talk for a minute? >> governor, hang on one second. i'd just like to get a word in here. go ahead. >> the fact is that throughout this campaign it has been newt gingrich who has praised the other candidates and so on for the strengths they bring to the campaign. >> let me first of all, for those of our listeners who may not have known what newt gingrich said, he was talking to the jewish channel and he was talking about the israeli-palestinian dispute and here's what he had to say. >> i think that we've had an invented palestinian people who are in fact arabs. >> listen, this has set off the palestinian world. it does run against how u.s. policy at this point which is trying to find a statehood for the palestinians and a peace for israel. but let me take it to what's really going on here and it is